Image Quality Enhanced: DLSS 3.7 vs XeSS 1.3 vs FSR 2

Image Quality Enhanced: DLSS 3.7 vs XeSS 1.3 vs FSR 2 - ML Upscaling Just Got Better

Рет қаралды 175,481

Күн бұрын

With the arrival of DLSS 3.7 and XeSS 1.3, machine learning-based upscaling has improved once again, with the gulf vs FSR 2 (aka FSR 3 spatial upscaling) widening still further. Alex takes a look at what XeSS 1.3 brings to the table, along with Intel's revamped preset naming, while examining the improvements that DLSS 3.7's new 'E' option offer vs existing offerings. We'll be looking at FSR 3.1 as and when the new update lands.
Subscribe for more Digital Foundry: bit.ly/DFSubscribe
Join the DF Patreon to support the team more directly and to get access to everything we do via pristine quality downloads: bit.ly/3jEGjvx
Want some DF-branded tee-shirts, mugs, hoodies and more? Check out our store: store.digitalfoundry.net
For commercial enquiries, please contact business@digitalfoundry.net
00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:41 Intel XeSS 1.3 Analysis
00:12:20 Nvidia DLSS 3.7 Analysis
00:15:40 FSR2 vs XeSS 1.3 vs DLSS 3.7
00:18:47 Conclusion
NV Profile Inspector:
github.com/Orbmu2k/nvidiaProf...
XML Files for NV Profile Inspector:
www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/7...

Пікірлер: 1 000

@QuiteLunacy Ай бұрын

Pretty impressed with XeSS. It has come along way in a short amount of time. Hope FSR 3.1 is good as well.

@TheNerd Ай бұрын

Nah. ATI... *cough cough*... ah I mean AMD are going to make it "kinda good but not really" as always. It's sadly an inherent part of their company DNA. Also: It's David vs Goliath. Intel has 125.000 employees. Thats more than DOUBLE than Nvidia and AMD _COMBINED._ In true AMD fassion, they are 3rd place now in terms of quality. I really wish these guys could compete, but I bet Intel will overtake them in the GPU business one day.

@UnluckyDomino Ай бұрын

It'll be "good enough" but still behind DLSS and XeSS. It's what happens when you want to save money on silicon and R&D by not adding discrete AI/Tensor cores and instead decide to make FSR a simpler temporal upscale filter that runs on everything for the sake of compatibility and higher chance of game developers adopting it Maybe RDNA4 will change it if AMD add an NPU like in Ryzen 8000 and create a trained AI model for upscaling

@rob4222 Ай бұрын

@@UnluckyDomino Well, good enough is good enough. DF have to use zoom (like in this video) and slow motion to show the differences. But I never use 400% zoom and slow motion in games. Do you?

@dontmatter4423 Ай бұрын

it won't surpass xess, let alone dlss simply because it's not using ML

@H786... Ай бұрын

@@TheNerd im all on board hating on companies but AMD changed the game with cpu's, Intel cannot keep up atm. i remember amd being absolute trash with their FX series and was always skeptical like you about buying anything AMD. fast forward to 2020-24, AMD is more reliable in the CPU market than what you make it out to be. GPU's are also not trailing too far behind, you have to remember how trash AMD was, just like intel are right now.

@ZykopathOfficial Ай бұрын

FSR 3.1 is way overdue, and DLSS just keeps getting better which is great to see.

@aeidengtfo6758 Ай бұрын

Except dlss doesn't keep getting better it gets better with each generation so long as you keep buying every generation

@Decenium Ай бұрын

eh, most gamers wont really care

@G0A7 Ай бұрын

@@Decenium Why not?

@mrshinobigaming8447 Ай бұрын

In rt,upscalling, productivity AMD is 2 gen behind Nvidia 1 gen behind intel Amd is NOW officially 3rd player Even though i m an Amd fanboy Amd just deserves it

@_Chad_ThunderCock Ай бұрын

@@mrshinobigaming8447amd is actually pretty decent for video editing workloads. 3D software like blender needs a big upgrade tho. It's kinda a joke that it's taking AMD forever to finally add AI to upscaling.

@RavTokomi Ай бұрын

One of the things I love about DLSS is being able to swap in new DLLs, tweak the presets, and use tweaks to switch from DLSS to DLAA for games that don't need more FPS.

@JPOGame Ай бұрын

How do you do that exactly?

@muchvibrant Ай бұрын

@@JPOGame you use DLSSTweaks

@emanresu6331 Ай бұрын

@@JPOGame Like it was literally said?. Download + unzip + copy + paste (/ overwrite the old Dll in the game directory).

@mbsfaridi Ай бұрын

@@JPOGame DLSS swapper and DLSS tweaks are two programs you can use to do that.

@sulac4ever170 Ай бұрын

... as well you can with XESS

@KoeiNL Ай бұрын

Its crazy how fast intel is catching up on the software side. Hopefully their hardware will start matching that.

@narniaphuket Ай бұрын

They're still a half decade behind on hardware. That gap doesn't just close magically

@hundvd_7 Ай бұрын

@@narniaphuket _Only_ a decade behind. It's also more like 5 years. And they don't need to make anything that competes with the 4090. Not even a 4070. If their value proposition is good enough, and they can make up the difference with software, I will be happy. And guess what, that's what they're doing currently.

@Chocapic_13 Ай бұрын

@@narniaphuket Its quite the opposite, the hardware itself is really good and future proof but poorly exploited by software/drivers They have just decided not to scale up to a bigger GPU to begin with and try to target as many consumers as possible.

@cnk-fn3nr Ай бұрын

They're the ones offering 256 bit 16 gigs of vram and even fast ram on their lower end models while AMD and nvidia (especially nvidia) struggle to even give us working vram amounts and speeds at the same prices (and even much more expensive). So if anything they're already evolving in some regards.

@silverwerewolf975 Ай бұрын

Maybe noy yhe 4090 but the 4070? THEY NEED TO REACH THAT AT LEAST, @@hundvd_7

@mrshinobigaming8447 Ай бұрын

Amd never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity😂

@_Chad_ThunderCock Ай бұрын

Man I wish they'd give their GPUs the same love they give for their CPU division.

@Nighthunt01 Ай бұрын

yeah that is wild...Intel's upscaling tech is now better than AMD's FSR🤯

@qubes8728 Ай бұрын

Never gets old😆

@cbennett1 Ай бұрын

4th in a 3 horse race

@Lycanvenom Ай бұрын

Don't worry, they're gonna finally catch up in a few months.

@iitzfizz Ай бұрын

I've been experimenting with XeSS 1.3 and it's very close to DLSS now, will be a huge win for people with older GPUs along with FSR 3.1 frame generation

@markojovanovic6928 Ай бұрын

@@BryAlrighty From the reviews, newer GPUs with XeSS look very close to DLSS, with intel it's on pair with DLSS

@BryAlrighty Ай бұрын

@@markojovanovic6928 XeSS with dp4a looks better than FSR for sure. But still miles away from DLSS. Too much "fizzle"

@115zombies935 Ай бұрын

@@BryAlrightyIn some games I’d say XeSS looks better

@Scott99259 Ай бұрын

@iitzfizz but runs way slower than dlss on amd cards.

@hmello3250 Ай бұрын

frame gen is only good for games that already run at 60 fps to reach 90+ at 120hz displays. if you can't reach 60 already then don't bother with it.

@cpt.tombstone Ай бұрын

The Clouds in Avatar are not a problem with DLSS itself, but with the Implementation. PureDark's DLSS 3 mod for Avatar fixes that issue completely. If I remember correctly, the developers have not passed the depth buffer correctly to DLSS and that was a relatively easy fix from PureDark's side.

@333hronos Ай бұрын

Last time I tried PureDark DLSS 3 mod (beta 3 hotfix 3), it hasn't been fixing cloud jitters in Avatar. Did the new version fix that?

@cpt.tombstone Ай бұрын

@@333hronos I believe it was already included in Beta version 01. You have to check the 'Fix DLSS Depth' option, If I remember correctly, but has been a while, maybe I'm wrong about that option being responsible for the cloud fix. They were definitely not jittering for me with his mod, that I'm 100% certain of.

@333hronos Ай бұрын

@@cpt.tombstone No, "Depth fix" option didn't help me. Moreover, it gives me strange oreols on distant leaves and trees if there is a waterfall with steam effects behind it, so I decided to keep it off. Do you know the latest version number of the Avatar mod?

@cpt.tombstone Ай бұрын

@@333hronos beta 04, I believe

@333hronos Ай бұрын

@@cpt.tombstone thank you, will try it later

@bruxis Ай бұрын

FSR 3.1 (or any improvement) rollout has been moving at a snails pace, AMD needs to get their stuff together

@Zerion Ай бұрын

Not gonna happen soon as their software team is small compared to Nvidia's.

@LucidStrike Ай бұрын

Weird phrasing since FSR 3.1 hasn't occurred at ANY pace because it hasn't started. They said it's coming in Q2, but they didn't say April.

@user-mw4wq3ci3d Ай бұрын

They are slow af, i gave them a chance but the next upgrade i will return to nvidia.

@Zerion Ай бұрын

@@user-mw4wq3ci3d I am also leaning towards Nvidia for the next one but their price levels are insane.

@mastroitek Ай бұрын

AMD desperately needs FSR3.1 soon and to be good! As an AMD user I basically avoid FSR like the plague (in most cases), because of its artifacts, while I was pretty happy with dlss2.0 when I had a 3060ti and with xess when I had an A750

@BrunoMael Ай бұрын

As a PC user I'm happy all fronts of upscalling are getting better and excited to see FSR 3.1 even if I'm mostly a DLSS user, and as an console user I'm praying that FSR 3.1 drops soon and that studios update their FSR2 games to FSR3 please (maybe PSSR and the probable Sony upscalling API helps with this?).

@cheese_crab Ай бұрын

This is my favorite category of DF videos, excellent work as always Alex

@cheese_crab Ай бұрын

Just as a passing thought: If there were a patreon option to fund more technical deep dive videos like this, similar to how there is DF retro funding, that would tip me into monthly supporter status 😉

@WholesomePotato1 Ай бұрын

@@cheese_crab Same here! I mostly enjoy these types of videos from DF! :)

@krazyfrog Ай бұрын

@@cheese_crab The issue is likely time than money considering how small the team is.

Ай бұрын

Thank you so much for this comparison, a lot of info to digest... I had no idea we can use different models with DLSS with the same .dll.

@James-tk2yl Ай бұрын

Thank you for demonstrating how to tweak the preset letter

@erfan5598 Ай бұрын

Please do more of these upscaling comparisons with different versions

@techsamurai11 Ай бұрын

Next on board, FSR 3.1 and PRSS. Amazing work Alex!!!

@LeBurkaTron Ай бұрын

Incredible amount of work in this video. Excellent 👌

@renatoszfr Ай бұрын

Can't wait to see what PSSR is capable of

@_Chad_ThunderCock Ай бұрын

Probably better than FSR but slightly worse than XeSS. Which is reasonable enough imo

@Jakiyyyyy Ай бұрын

Pre-Startup Safety Review?

@waltuhputurdaway Ай бұрын

@@Jakiyyyyyyep

@cattboy Ай бұрын

Add in native resolution during comparison from time to time please. Thanks for this great video

@originalambival Ай бұрын

XeSS has really come a long way quickly. I'd now take even the DP4a gladly. Sad that we didn't see framerate comparisons in the videos!

@Timberjac Ай бұрын

Interesting work. Great video.

@yumeheshe1920 Ай бұрын

What a proper video! Quality in all aspects

@existentialselkath1264 Ай бұрын

I'd love for more of a focus on the anti aliasing modes, and with the popularity of resolution sliders that go above 100%, supersampling modes would be awesome too. This push for upscalers has finally brought improvements to terrible TAA technology. It's just a shame it's rarely given a high quality input.

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat Ай бұрын

Hey, can you make a video about lossless scaling ? Both upscaling and frame gen component.

@TheBleeehhh Ай бұрын

Great job! Thanks for the in depth explanation. Have you tested this with Laptop GPUs?

@Theorak Ай бұрын

Great comparison and insight, I'll try the upgraded Xess in HFW soon. If you are looking for tricky scenes to compare, I noticed in HFW, the Vantage Point holograms loose a lot of details that visualized the difference in quality well.

@caldweab Ай бұрын

AMD’s stubbornness in dedicating silicon to ML and RT is going to cost them in the long run.

@systemx6603 Ай бұрын

As shown by XeSS, it is not necessary to have dedicated ML for upscaling. As far as RT, they have dedicated silicon.

@viniqf Ай бұрын

@@systemx6603It's not necessary, but DLSS is still better than all of them, and that matters, as it's by far the most widely available upscaling solution. The biggest issue for AMD right now is that they have a worse equivalent for every technology provided by Intel or Nvidia. The best part of it is the hardware agnostic properties of FSR, but that's it. Everything else is worse.

@DigitalJedi Ай бұрын

@systemx6603 the RT silicon of RDNA3 does not do the same thing as Intel and Nvidia's. It does not perform BVH transversal in hardware, which is the most compute-intenseive component of RT. That is instead handled in software executed by the TMUs.

@thefilmdirector1 Ай бұрын

@@DigitalJedi and yet i still get 60 fps with RT turned on (7700xt) so who cares?

@tomhanke7703 Ай бұрын

@@thefilmdirector1but not in 4k

@thedudely1 Ай бұрын

I really appreciate the XeSS DP4a vs XMX path comparison I feel like there aren't any other videos comparing them

@anasevi9456 Ай бұрын

yep, despite what stubborn mules of hardware reviewers like Hardware Unboxed think; ARC is actually selling, a LOT. a750s have been chronically sold out in my country since forever, despite computer stores like PLE ordering as many from suppliers as they can, and A770 availability is spotty too. Nvidia and AMD left a massive gap in the market getting greedy after the 3rd crypto run, ARC is the only good budget option in most places unless you buy used. Showing XMX mode in XeSS should be done.

@egojokes Ай бұрын

OMG ALEEEX!!! IT'S MY FAVOURITE SONGS FROM HALO ON THE BACKGROUND!! LEGENDARY VIDEO!!!

@otravoyadnoe Ай бұрын

wondering just how DLSS Q compares to all of those modes present in the video. Does it help eliminating those moire artefacts compared to DLSS B?

@izeinmendoza9766 Ай бұрын

The reason you pay additional when buying RTX Cards is the Tensor Cores and it's worth it.

@MaKTaiL Ай бұрын

I'm excited for PSSR comparisons for when PS5 Pro comes out.

@Nucleosynthese Ай бұрын

Another excellent comparison! What games will natively support DLSS 3.7?

@jamescole3143 Ай бұрын

Thank you DF!

@fantasmasd Ай бұрын

Hi Alex, great video!. Do you think developers should skip FSR2 entirely and rely on XeSS DP4a for compatibility? Does XeSS DP4a work on consoles?

@DigitalFoundry Ай бұрын

I think developers should still have FSR 2 there for user choice and for lower end devices of course. XeSS DP4a could work on consoles like XSS and XSX (but not on PS5, performantly as we see with XeSS performance on the RX 5000 series). But there is no easily available code for developers to port it to console atm. Intel has not really opened it up for that. -Alex

@mleise8292 Ай бұрын

I agree. Fabio from Ancient Gameplays has shown FPS losses using XeSS Quality on AMD cards in particular games.

@ryanspencer6778 Ай бұрын

@@DigitalFoundrythe SDK is available on Github. Would it really be any more difficult to implement XeSS into a console game than it is to put it in a PC game? I wouldn't think it would be any harder, only that FSR and first party upscalers are easier to put in.

@MsMarco6 Ай бұрын

@@DigitalFoundry A real shame. It would've been a gamechanger on console, almost removing the need for PSSR. I guess we'll have to wait & see what happens with FSR 3.1 and how TSR is coming along.

@olnnn Ай бұрын

@@ryanspencer6778 That's just the SDK for adding it to a windows executable. not the source code for XeSS itself. Also as noted, FSR and XeSS does not have the same performance impact on non-intel hardware, something that wasn't really covered in the video, it will only be beneficial if it can give better quality at equal processing cost

@GOPNiK-47 Ай бұрын

It's really impressive how XeSS has improved in a very short time.

@ZhangMaza Ай бұрын

Ah great video Alex, but to soon, it should be compared when FSR 3.1 arrives

@djayjp Ай бұрын

I'm most curious about improvements at the extremes--Ultra Performance modes. That's where there's the most room for improvement.

@FrazzleCat Ай бұрын

Intel's doing amazing work with their software. Congrats to their team.

@ProjectPhysX Ай бұрын

Thanks! :)

@lukismilenar Ай бұрын

Are You going to check out Lossless Scaling frame generation?

@GoMArkkrAM Ай бұрын

Loss Less is compared to old FSR1, so it’s pretty much out of the game by now.

@Dragoonoar Ай бұрын

@@GoMArkkrAM hes talking about frame gen part of lossless scaling, dubbed lsfg. i've been using it for 60 fps locked games and it works really well, especially considering that im still using a 1070

@GoMArkkrAM Ай бұрын

@@Dragoonoar Ow yes mate, I was using it with a Rx5700 and served pretty well, recently got a rx 7600 and moved to natively option (AFMF) and it is far superior, since then, uninstalled the lossless app.

@MrChocodemon Ай бұрын

The jittering is gone in the 1.3 blur, but take a look the tree edge and tell me that isn't much worse. It sharpened the blur and now the image has sharp pixel stairs instead of the smooth gradient blur.

@perpetualprocrastinator Ай бұрын

Alex, where would you put TSR in the hierarchy?

@astreakaito5625 Ай бұрын

I'm using dlss 3.7 at under 1080p base res and it still looks amazing on my 4K TV.. it's really ridiculous. It still doesn't replace true performance and never will, or excuse bad optimization, but it's really ludicrous how well it works.

@WholesomePotato1 Ай бұрын

Really interested how PSSR compares to all 3 of them. It's an exciting time in gaming graphics these days!

@thefilmdirector1 Ай бұрын

whats exciting about upscaling and fake frames exactly?

@madmardigan3321 Ай бұрын

It will be interesting if it will retroactively improve older games or only be utilised in exclusives or future titles. It would be very strange if it performed better than DLSS and be exclusive to the PS tech. I dont expect much this generation. Doubt it will perform as good as DLSS without some years to improve. Maybe in time for the PS6 but not the PS5 Pro. Like to be wrong tho.

@dangir1783 Ай бұрын

I could swear that Sony's algorithm is none other than fsr3 since it runs on AMD GPUs

@MaxIronsThird Ай бұрын

PSSR is probably based on FSR4, since that's coming out with RDNA4 and is ML based.

@Torso6131 Ай бұрын

@@thefilmdirector1 Being able to have a card punch above its weight of course. Frame gen I'm less excited about, but upscaling has done wonders for game performance on mid-range hardware. I would argue graphics cards prices are pretty outrageous, but if my $320 6700xt can play games at acceptable image quality on a 4k TV using FSR/XeSS that's pretty awesome and is a great option to have rather than just having to brute force with a more expensive card. Options are good, can still run at native resolution if you want.

@StrixWar Ай бұрын

I have a a770 in my second pc and so far it’s been a great card. Minus couple drivers issues like 8 months ago the drivers been fine since and has played every game fine that I have tried

@brumfondl Ай бұрын

I will never get tired of Alex's sign-off...

@MyNameIsAhj Ай бұрын

Damn first five min? Hell yeah

@Plebeaus Ай бұрын

Love the Halo music at the beginning

@DigitalBroomstick Ай бұрын

Plays throughout

@radosuaf Ай бұрын

Great work!

@dustycarrier4413 Ай бұрын

You guys should consider using a memory editing tool to modify the internal resolutions directly.

@TheNerd Ай бұрын

It's a niche problem, but for me as a 3080 12GB owner, the best part about DLSS is DLAA and it's sadly not available most of the time.

@razorhanny Ай бұрын

Use DLSS Tweaks to force DLAA on every game that has DLSS.

@Shieftain Ай бұрын

Use DLSSTweaks to manually add it in. That's what I've been doing for games that don't have in-game support for DLAA and so far it's been working like a charm. You can also override the DLSS preset values to whatever you want.

@TRONiX404 Ай бұрын

Just use DLSS Tweaks u can force DLAA

@puppy.shorts Ай бұрын

you can force dlaa in any game that supports dlss even if it doesn't support dlaa officially, just search dlaa in any game on youtube and click the first one

@3thndv155 Ай бұрын

That Halo soundtrack really is a vibe.

@alenko4763 Ай бұрын

Omg agree, this soundtrack somehow fits perfectly to a tech analysis

@DanH11 Ай бұрын

Glad to see I wasn't the first to notice/point that out. When those first few notes of the bass line hit I was like, "Oh hello old friend!" 😄

@MrChadLedford Ай бұрын

Love your videos!

@altus1226 Ай бұрын

I am surprised you didn't mention the difference in colour grading between XeSS versions

@nedimhalilovic1 Ай бұрын

Idk if it's doable (4 screens) but adding Native image when comparing all 3 upscalers would have been nice to see how the image is supposed to look like in a "perfect" scenario

@DigitalJedi Ай бұрын

It would fit fine, maybe even better, as they could just do 4 quadrants of the screen.

@rx58000 Ай бұрын

By native, do you mean Native Res with TAA or Native res without any AA ?

@mrpiratefox4497 Ай бұрын

@@rx58000with TAA of course. All upscalers have TAA at the end of the day

@youuuuuuuuuuutube Ай бұрын

In terms of IQ: DLSS >> XESS >>>>>>>>> FSR.

@systoxity Ай бұрын

More curious to see how these techniques compare in low resolution situations to get an idea of how they impact current and future handhelds like the steam deck.

@Nintenboy01 Ай бұрын

I remember herbs in the briefcase had terrible fizzle in RE4 with FSR2

@asghargodzila Ай бұрын

Xess is getting there. Dlss should improve fast if it wants to remain the best upscaling method

@katzenjunge5869 Ай бұрын

Xess can be as good as it wants to be, nobody buys Intel gaming GPUs

@clumsy124 Ай бұрын

@@katzenjunge5869 For now

@thetruth5232 Ай бұрын

@@katzenjunge5869 Maybe. But I just swapped XeSS 1.3 into cyberpunk and... XeSS Quality means Raytracing Psycho at 1440p60+ on my RX 7900 XTX. So... I'm just thankfull for the competition.

@PixelatedWolf2077 Ай бұрын

nobody? Lots of people are. I'd take one over an Nvidia GPU at this point, just because of how overpriced team Green is. The issue with them is Nvidia is their going into an AI company, not a gaming company like they used to.

@kugatsu495 Ай бұрын

Does anyone else hear the Halo music in the background?!?!?

@SimplexPL Ай бұрын

Yes :)

@kIrA7ODST Ай бұрын

A walk in the woods 👌

@donizettilorenzo Ай бұрын

It is :D

@xredzzofficial Ай бұрын

Can we have a dedicated video on fast pacing games like COD and which preset to use? If possible also know whether to update DLL.

@Veptis Ай бұрын

the original XeSS release had 5 settings but just two models. It would use bilinear upscaling (and downscaling) to the actual model input and then get the target resolution output. Intel hasn't really been transparent with what is really happening. And they never made it open source as promised. So I started to do some research myself. And the biggest indicator for file size. This lead me to guess that yes, for 1.3 it's more than two models. The sharpness debate is a difficult one. The XeSS SDK allows 3 sliders(wiggle distance, sharpness, filter) for the game developer to tune and apply to the named profiles (would be great if we get that as a user perhaps). You can read about it in the PDF document in the repository or even download and try the demo project. It has all the sliders available to you. And the swapping dll problem just keeps the previous settings. So it might not be tuned for the changed base resolution. So I believe this requires a follow-up video with an official 1.3 update/title... Or comparisons in the demo app. The trails in the clouds seems like a bug worth reporting to me. Clouds are likely to be their own render pass, and particles too. Since clouds use a buffer of the previous timestep, it seems to be affected be overwritten(it loses it's timestep, and therefore the hiszory isn't spatially consistent). clouds are expensive if ray marched, and therefore might be run at a buffer with reduced resolution. It could be an issue where that reduced resolution is wrongly calculated. would be interested to go frame by frame through the pipeline and see where data is ruined. It would have been great to get a native res/ground truth with MSAA(or similar) comparison for at least a few examples. Perhaps even give a no AA base resolution example, to show what the model input is and what they have to work with (minus wiggle and vectors). That is additional capturing, but it's easier than swapping dlls or cards. ExtraSS has a video in their supplemental materials from the siggraph talk. and that will be exciting. As it does resolution and temporal extrapolation with guidance (=meaning geometry pass without shaders). So it might be a generation a head. Can't wait for that video.

@waltuhputurdaway Ай бұрын

🤓

@frederikgoogel5611 Ай бұрын

Cool how amd invented per object motion fizzle

@Alovon Ай бұрын

Wouldn't you need to remake this whole video once FSR3.1 comes out? Considering the visual improvements that brings from the few screens we've seen it would be notable to consider (not as much though considering FSR3.1 unbinds the Frame Generation from the Upscaling so you could use FSR-FG with XeSS 1.3 on a Intel or AMD GPU theoretically)

@DelgaDude Ай бұрын

I mean as upscaling techonology gets better they will have to redo this video a lof of times I imagine. I don't see why doing it now would be an issue.

@alfo2804 Ай бұрын

@DelgaDude Because FSR 3.1 is very close to release. Nixxes have said that they've basically got it up and running in Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Forbidden West, and they're essentially just waiting for AMD to officially release it. But as usual, AMD is being ridiculously slow for literally no reason.

@DelgaDude Ай бұрын

@alfo2804 "Soon" in this industry doesn't mean anything. It could be weeks or months... hell even years sometimes. Digital Foundry is also quick to make videos whenever something new comes out so I really don't see an issue.

@V3ntilator Ай бұрын

They will make a new video later anyway.

@Vojoor Ай бұрын

Should’ve watched the full video mate

@raulalejandroordonez3275 Ай бұрын

thank you guys, but it would have been interesting to see the comparison with rendering without any scale technology just for a complete comparison.

@Not_Lewis Ай бұрын

Ok, so just so I am understanding: DLSS 3.00 and later is solely an updated version of their DLSS Super Resolution algorithm, plus frame gen and ray reconstruction, yes? Would we see any benefit in other games if we update our older DLSS nvngx files to a later version, even if for games that don't support Frame Gen/RayT and on older GPUs? Example I updated the DLSS file in EscapeFromTarkov to 3.7 but reddit said that the newest .dll file is still running DLSS 2.0. Guess I'm confused on what the nvngx versions mean

@MediaBrad Ай бұрын

Those 3 features are on separate DLLs. Nvngx_dlss.dll is the super resolution/upscaler, nvngx_dlssg.dll is the frame generation DLL and nvngx_dlssd.dll is the ray reconstruction DLL. They're all being updated but new versions of each may come out at different times. When someone says the latest version is 2, they may just mean the super resolution/upscaler as that's the way it was marketed. Same as 3 being marketed as frame gen. But now they are all in version 3.x numbers. Though with multiplayer games like Escape from Tarkov, they may not even allow you to update the DLL yourself because of anti cheat (or risk ban) so perhaps they're saying the game officially is still on one of the 2.x versions and hasn't been updated to a newer version by the developers. The newer versions of the DLLs can have improved image quality and with 3.7 for the upscaler you get access to the new preset e that's not available in previous versions.

@SethizFTW Ай бұрын

I never knew DLSS had different presets

@saruboss18 Ай бұрын

DLSS, DLAA, frame gen, RT. Yes Nvidia GPUs are pretty expensive but these features unfortunately will keep me in their eco systems

@RicochetForce Ай бұрын

Yup, they’ve combined world class features along with their GPUs. And did so way ahead of the curve.

@rainar2742 Ай бұрын

@@RicochetForce it still depends what you're loking for tho. for 90% of people out there AMD is still the superior choice even tho no one is buying it for some reason. Most people play 1080p/1440p no RT and those features are kinda useless in those scenarios. And you're paying 20/30% less for the same performance picking AMD. Nvidia only really starts to make sense at $600+

@thetruth5232 Ай бұрын

@@rainar2742 I've bought a RX 7900 XTX for €900 because I wanted enough Raster for Asseto Corsa at 4K 100+ fps. 4080 Super was €1200 at the time. Now that XeSS 1.3 dropped I'm replaying Cyberpunk with Raytracing Psycho at 1440p60 at XeSS Quality. FSR and XeSS 1.2 are absolutely unusable, so I was surprised just How good 1.3 works, It just turned my XTX into a perfectly capable raytracing card.

@SeriousBoot Ай бұрын

Just tried DLSS 3.7 (E) in Diablo4 works wonders with new raytracing features and framegen works properly now which was a surprise.

@ryanspencer6778 Ай бұрын

Great analysis, but I would have added a framerate comparison between all of the different upscalers. The DP4A path tends to have better image quality than FSR, but worse performance. I'd have liked to see a comparison between them to see if Intel has improved the performance on the DP4A pathway.

@sulac4ever170 Ай бұрын

XESS 1.3 is amazing and lifted HFW to new hights on my aging GTX 1660 Ti MaxQ, when the replacement DLL became available. I am still immensely impressed though about what FSR 2.2 is managing in ultra performance (upscaling 360p to 1080p) WITHOUT ANY AI whatsoever. Sure it looks pretty unstable in motion but when coming to rest it produces a stable image, which looks like native 1080p (based on 360p!) with no direct comparison ... without AI! At launch it was the best option for me to play the game as XESS' 1.2 PERFORMANCE was not only similarly unstable, but also performed a lot worse AND looked much more blurry on top of that than FSR 2.2 ULTRA PERFORMANCE ... again: without AI! 🤯 That seemed extremely impressive to me and deserves a mention IMO 😊

@DigitalJedi Ай бұрын

I totally agree that FSR is impressive for what it is. It's essentially a standard image upscaling and sharpening algorithm. I must admit though, both XeSS on the same hardware makes it look outdated sometimes. Intel stepped up to the GPU game as a real competitor with hardware RT and proved you can make good upscaling run on everything.

@sulac4ever170 Ай бұрын

@@DigitalJedi I as well totally agree with you 😊👌

@NamTran-xc2ip Ай бұрын

Xess just doesnt run as good as fsr in cards that's old.

@walker2006au Ай бұрын

Hopefully dlss 3.7 finally fixes the God awful smearing in cyberpunk 2077 with Ray reconstruction enabled.

@Sp3cialk304 Ай бұрын

It does if you switch to preset E. Also fixes the lose of detail on cans rolling across the ground, and the blurring of pieces of paper blowing in the wind. Game uses preset D by default.

@retrowrath9374 Ай бұрын

I tried it and yes it does, just replace the dlls.

@walker2006au Ай бұрын

@@retrowrath9374 I just watched a video that shows it no better (mainly issue when it's dark)

@walker2006au Ай бұрын

@@Sp3cialk304 how do you switch? I'll give a go

@Sp3cialk304 Ай бұрын

@@walker2006au I use DLSS Swapper to change the DLSS version. Or you can just manually replace the dll file. I use DLSS tweaks to change the preset. Both are easy to use, a KZfaq video for each is probably easier to follow than text.

@SimplexPL Ай бұрын

13:56 How are you gettting these #1 and #2 categories? I don't have them on the same version of Nvidia Profile Inspector

@Cheynanigans__ Ай бұрын

It should just be there if you're using the newest drivers

@SimplexPL Ай бұрын

@@Cheynanigans__ false. You need an xml file which is linked in the description of the video.

@Cheynanigans__ Ай бұрын

@@SimplexPL You're right! My mistake, I forgot I'd put that extra .xml file in there long ago. Sorry!

@vncube1 Ай бұрын

I just need to know that I'm spoiled for choice by the end of the year between DLSS 3, FSR 3.1 and XeSS 1.3 for upscaling, anti-aliasing and super-resolution options!

@Dibromatic Ай бұрын

I want to watch, but at the same time I don't want to know how far behind FSR is.

@Sorvetedchocolat Ай бұрын

They are comparing to FSR 2.2. So yeah, it isn't looking good

@cromefire_ Ай бұрын

It's still doing okay if well integrated as seen in Horizon. And also soon to be replaced with FSR 3.1, which hopefully delivers.

@mustafacakiroglu_ Ай бұрын

@@Sorvetedchocolat what else can they compare to, its the latest version we have access to right now.

@Sorvetedchocolat Ай бұрын

@@mustafacakiroglu_ Well, they modded updated versions of both XeSS and DLSS. They could as well mod the latest FSR update available, since it is open source. Anyway, I think the point of the video is to show XeSS' progress comparing it to its previous version and another machine learning solution like DLSS

@mustafacakiroglu_ Ай бұрын

@@Sorvetedchocolat you cannot mod fsr the same way you do with dlss and xess. he used the latest he can use.

@SirBlicks Ай бұрын

Just wanted to point out that below 24 inches, DLSS even on balance in most games looks to be about the same as Native quality, FSR is very noticeable to me even on my 16 inch laptop.

@aweigh1010 Ай бұрын

Can't wait for Stellar Blade!!!

@Harbinger1985 Ай бұрын

Nice breakdown, Alex! Seems Intel getting better even they image reconstruction technology came latest they in the middle in this race. I just hope they implement into more games. FSR 1.0 added a few old titles (Halo MCC, Dead by Daylight) for popular games, I guess just have something. Personally I'm again convinced to get an RTX card, since DLSS is the best, at least so far.

@myfavoritemusic2428 Ай бұрын

I have to give HUGE props to Intel for not only pretty much surpassing AMD with their XeSS, but by getting closer to DLSS than anyone else ever has. That's insanely impressive considering that XeSS like under 2 years old. That amount of improvement in that amount of time is honestly kind of baffling to me.

@youuuuuuuuuuutube Ай бұрын

FSR is so bad that it's not a huge achievement to do better, honestly. It's not even ML based :/

@flexplodin Ай бұрын

FSR is like someone coming to your house and tweaking the settings on your TV and saying it's 8k.

@GoMArkkrAM Ай бұрын

Just in your house, not mine!

@ScyrousFX Ай бұрын

Can someone explain to me why DF hasn't made a video on FSR 3 vs DLSS 3?

@rob4222 Ай бұрын

Because FSR3 is FSR2 with FG

@evolancer211 Ай бұрын

Man I'm glad I don't care this much about graphics but am thankful for the analysis

@Torso6131 Ай бұрын

Huh, I thought modded implementations of XeSS 3 kept the same resolution tables as XeSS 1.2, but that's interesting to see that's not the case (as some other channels may have reported)! I have been using it in a few games (mostly Cyberpunk), but those also have dynamic resolution scaling options that I've been using as well so I'm guessing that hasn't been a factor to me as I'm just hitting that 60fps target. I love, love LOVE that XeSS has the DPA4 path and it's now superior to FSR2.2. It's great to see even my 6700xt get access to machine learning upscaling in some games, hopefully more titles will have it in the future. Really wish it would be added to Alan Wake 2 for example (or at least FSR3.1 when that comes out). Hopefully in the future more games will also have just a resolution slider as well. Was pretty nice in Tekken 8 to just be able to slider TSR from 50-100, although I wouldn't mind going as low as 720p on a 4k monitor just for giggles. It usually looks horrendous with FSR2, but more options are always better.

@DigitalJedi Ай бұрын

Try out the ultra performance mode in XeSS if you want to see what extreme resolution scaling looks like. It's a 3x upscale, so 33% internal resolution. It takes 3840x2160 down to 1280x720.

@Torso6131 Ай бұрын

@@DigitalJedi Oh I'll certainly be giving it a go once games implement XeSS 1.3 fully. It'll be super interesting to see how it compares to FSR2 Ultra Performance. Still hoping for a resolution slider that goes all the way from 720p to native 4k though, I think a few games have the sliders, but I don't think they go quite that low. Realistically the thing I've always wanted was to have 1440p "quality" upscaling resolutions boosted to 4K output and see how that looks. I'm quite happy that XeSS now has that option with their new performance mode. I've always wondered how it would look, as sometimes I just want a touch more performance at 4k and maybe, just maybe that would be satisfactory rather than going all the way down to 720p. Super happy they added the option.

@MrStealYoBeef Ай бұрын

Man, this open source upscaler from AMD sure is being useful in allowing us to update to improved versions of FSR as they come out. It helps it stand out very clearly against the closed source upscalers from Intel and Nvidia which prevent us from doing such things. Wait... it's the other way around? But... but everyone told me that open source was better... Well at least AMD is consistently updating their upscaler to keep it competitive against other upsca- wait, they're not doing that either? Oh come on!

@rob4222 Ай бұрын

AMD 3.1 is coming pretty soon, which improves the Upscaling. Alex mentioned, it in the video. Nice try... 🙄

@Eleganttf2 Ай бұрын

@@rob4222 lol you again rob, yeah sure keep trying to defend AMD pal trash

@rob4222 Ай бұрын

@@Eleganttf2 I didn't defend anything. I only wrote that 3.1 will improve image quality

@dampelps Ай бұрын

Let’s take a moment to appreciate the QUALITY Arrow 2:15

@Kryptik0III Ай бұрын

can't wait to see how PSSR compares

@Hazeman. Ай бұрын

I just loved Intel XESS kick AMD FSR ❤❤❤

@mike_datpseudo Ай бұрын

FSR 2 is gerbage...

@PazLeBon Ай бұрын

I always stare at the comparisons and 90% of the time i cant see the differences :)

@riplaekic Ай бұрын

Any plans to review FF 14 Dawntrail's benchmark and it's implementation of DLSS and FSR? They need constructive feedback as their tech teams don't seem to understand the established user experience for DLSS and FSR. You have to mod the DLSS manually to choose your quality setting. PLEASE!

@RicochetForce Ай бұрын

Yeah, I’m worried about FFXVI’s port if this is how they understand DLSS and FSR.

@capablanc Ай бұрын

Nothing new for Japanese devs and atrocious PC tech

@azazelleblack Ай бұрын

Something I wish you would address because a lot of people don't seem to understand it is that the reduction in input (pre-scaling) render resolution absolutely does reduce distant fidelity, even with DLSS, and even on "Ultra Quality". For open world games, this makes upscaling much less attractive as distant objects and areas with long view distance become frustratingly blurry much sooner than with native rendering.

@TheNamelessOne12357 Ай бұрын

As far as I know, DLSS shifts image every frame to get full frame data.

@NeovanGoth Ай бұрын

That depends on the specific implementation. Games need to use a negative LOD bias to preserve both object, and texture detail in the reconstructed image. Also, as so often, the comparison with "native resolution" doesn't really make sense. As Alex said in a video: "What does that even mean? It's just a number." Every real method of anti-aliasing (means not post-processing ones FXAA) is based on resolving subpixel detail, either by rendering pixels multiple times per frame (SSAA, MSAA), or by combining data from multiple frames (TAA, including modern reconstruction methods like DLSS). The more samples per pixel you have, the better the resulting image. Under these circumstances the idea of "native resolution rendering" is completely arbitrary and usually only used by people who don't really understand how rendering works.

@MaxIronsThird Ай бұрын

that's the game developer's fault.

@azazelleblack Ай бұрын

@@NeovanGoth No, that's nonsense, sorry. It's nonsense because no matter what type of smart jittering you do, unless we're talking about a completely static camera angle, an object on screen will only ever be represented by (area x ppi) pixels. Using a lower resolution, even if you're jittering it, still gives you less pixels to represent that object, even in the best case where you're standing still. If you're moving, as you almost assuredly are, a higher rendering resolution gives you more spatial resolution for distant objects. It just does period. It is really not a difficult concept. And no, "native resolution" is very far from an "arbitrary" concept. It is quite concrete and simple.

@ItsIcedDonut 22 күн бұрын

@@azazelleblackWhen you are moving the difference is much harder to notice.

@zndxt1970 Ай бұрын

Crazy how amd fanbois will defend FSR to their graves when it really is sooooo bad compared to DLSS and Xess

@ttghhgg1918 Ай бұрын

I had an amd vega 64 gpu which I recently changed to 4060 n I can easily say I loved how amd fsr looked n amd image shapening is so good that I’m considering selling my rtx card I recently played tlou 1 in pc n I can’t tell you how good it looked in my vega n I even got more fps with fsr mod n it looked way better than dlss n I’m playing red dead 2 on rtx 4060 but it doesn’t look so good on this card n I am very very particular about how my games look n run I take weeks to fiddle n get the best looks for any games n even in forbidden west my vega outperformed 4060 n looked better n more sharper n cleaner idk how

@ttghhgg1918 Ай бұрын

N I’m not any fanboy I used both n I think Radeon image sharpening is so good it alone worth buying amd gpu as barely there are few games with ray tracing anyways

@rockapartie Ай бұрын

@@ttghhgg1918 Press Alt+F3 to open the Freestyle filters overlay, enable Sharpen or Sharpen+

@auritro3903 Ай бұрын

AMD fanbois - "bUt FsR is FrEe aNd oPeN sOuRcE !!1!11!1" firstly, stfu i know you dont know how to code or read code even, so FSR's open-source code wont be even useful you unless you are some kind of developer secondly, FSR is free, but so is XeSS, and from what it seems, it seems to beat FSR in quality at similar FPS

@mleise8292 Ай бұрын

Not sure if win for AI learning or understaffed Radeon Group. 😅 Anyways good visual comparison and journalistic style. Looking forward to the FSR 3.1 video.😅

@snailone6358 Ай бұрын

Kinda weird that Ray Reconstruction was not included in the DLSS 3.7 update for Unreal and Unity Plugins. I’m checking the page almost every week and the (coming soon) is a bit frustrating given it’s written there since November 23

@Scott99259 Ай бұрын

Fsr is absolute garbage.

@carterbridges3978 Ай бұрын

Slightly disappointed DLSS 3.7 was such a small leap forward. I hope we aren’t approaching the point smartphones have reached - where there is not much to improve so updates become small and incremental like 3.7 was. I suppose something like DLSS 4 will need a major launch of a game sporting some fancy new rendering tech. I hope DLSS 4 focuses on improving a wider selection of games rather than making a select few look incredible.

@plasmahvh Ай бұрын

there were some vram leaks for dlss4. less usage on vram and it should be available for all

@OrjonZ Ай бұрын

In terms of reconstruction it will not change much. It has had a lot of year to train. What we will see is different way to integrate AI like they did with 3.0, 3.5 etc.

@Jakiyyyyy Ай бұрын

DLSS 4 should be the tech where they reduce the VRAM usage in games. DLSS 2 and 3.7 only related to the upscaling only.

@DanKaschel Ай бұрын

@@JakiyyyyyUpscaling *is* a technique for reducing VRAM usage

@slyseal2091 Ай бұрын

@@DanKaschel Yes, and they want to reduce it further. Should cars not go faster because they already outmatch walking?

@project_anti Ай бұрын

XeSS is going to be bult different, i haven't tested it myself but i can tell it will have the compatibility and performance of FSR with the quality of DLSS. Now they have just started in the performance part of the market, but it seems they've made big progress already in a really short amount of time which is why it looks like it'll be better then the 2 in the future.

@cooltwittertag 17 күн бұрын

just added xess to cyberpunk and despite the lower resolution it looks so much better on dp4a

@karlos1060 Ай бұрын

This is one of the reasons i don't buy AMD anymore. Even Intel caught up and has better scaling while it's their first GPU. I had so many issues with AMD and FSR. Also driver time-out's and other horrible AMD stuff like extreme power consumption at IDLE with 2 screens at 165hz. They claimed it to be fixed but it's a straight lie. As i have a power meter at the wall and i measure stuff like that to me AMD is the brand to avoid.

@vKobie Ай бұрын

you're lost. i have never had an issue like any of these in the 2 years i've had a 6800 xt. maybe you just don't know what you're doing 💀 yes there was an idle power issue which was fixed btw... Also FSR 3.1 has promises to be a lot better with image quality. You can buy intel or nvidia if you want but don't spread misinformation about amd baby bro

@NamTran-xc2ip Ай бұрын

@@vKobie 'promises', yeah, keep trusting AMD words🤣🤣. That's the same thing they said about fsr 2.2 and it's still a decade behind dlss

@vKobie Ай бұрын

@@NamTran-xc2ip they have shown screenshots of it fixing the notorious "fizzling" problem at least in Ratchet and Clank. Me personally I have never had an issue with FSR 2.1 or 2.2 because I play at 4k. 4k FSR Quality looks great. So this is really a YALL problem and not a ME personally problem. Keep hating for no reason tho

@NamTran-xc2ip Ай бұрын

@@vKobie 'Keep hating'. Apparently telling the truth that you don't like equals to hate. So because you don't have a problem that means everything is ok, AMD is the best. This stupid fanboy mindset is exactly why GPUs are expensive. Another uncomfortable truth is, DLSS performance looks better than FSR quality at 4k.

@karlos1060 Ай бұрын

@@vKobie That power issue idle has never been fixed it's a lie! It was fixed for a number of screen but the majority not! I know very well what i am doing. I build pc's as a hobby. You people justr believe the lies from AMD. I have hard proof it was not fixed as i said. I have a dual monitor setup. And power usage idle was 88 watts with 1 screen at 165hz 1440p and the other 60hz at 1080p. Lowering it to 144hz on my main dropped it to 45 watts idle. Lowering it to 60 and it was about 15-20 watts wich it should be! On my 4080 super now it uses 20 watt in the 165hz 1440p and 1080p config. You people believe to much AMD propaganda! I have a powermeter at the wall as well so i can test individual parts of the pc and theur usage. FSR is horrible. Just look at the footage of it! I had a RX7900XT and played Alan Wake 2 and in the forest the fern plants on the floor would go crazy turning all sides when you aproached them, no issue on my 4080 S! Or World of Wacraft getting driver time-out messages and my screen frooze for 15- 30 sec! Never with my Nvidia. I had the 6800XT before and same issue! So drivers are broken with AMD. Thats a fact! The only thing why others don't always have the issue, is luck with their components like screens and simply because people are blind and don't see shit. AMD is for people that want crap experience Nvidia you pay more and you get the best. I only use A tier components in my pc nothing less. With AMD always shit. I had a Ryzen 9 5900X not to bad. But still sometimes it did not post to Windows and a hard reset was needed. Besides that it was ok, but RAM you could not push at all with 4 dimms because the Infinity fabric would just crash. Now with my Intel I7-14700KF it's rocksolid at 6000 mts. So you all keep buying AMD please so Nvidia/Intel does'nt get even more expensive.

@6xxunknownxx6 Ай бұрын

True, time marches on. But, for whom the bell tolls?

@starbez Ай бұрын

I think intel knowing changes to the names of the xcess present so when a user compares setting between different vendors, they will see the performance increase but not know the resolution differences

@Buffinator1988 Ай бұрын

My prediction. Upscaling will go the way of gsync and freesync. They will all improve at varying rates and speeds but eventually (years down the line) the differences will become "academic" and people won't care. The real battleground will be the techniques (like Ray Tracing) that Upscaling makes possible.

@DanKaschel Ай бұрын

I'll take that bet. We are miles and miles away from what these techniques can do. Both quantitatively (ideal would be ~1000fps withl ~32k output res, dual for VR) and qualitatively (earlier injection into the pipeline -- potentially much earlier, potentially generating from structured data instead of raw frames with metadata).

@ishiddddd4783 Ай бұрын

eventually, but its also a much larger gap to what freesync and gsync ever had, and has a lot more competition, its wait until the competition catches to nvidias implementation from 3 years ago

@paul1979uk2000 Ай бұрын

@@DanKaschel He is right thought, the quality of them all will get to a point where it won't matter to most gamers any more and they will likely end up using the more open solution that works on more hardware. Once you get to a certain quality level, being best doesn't matter that much to most gamers. With XeSS closing the gap on DLSS and FSR 3.1 out soon, the gap is closing in the sense of being good enough for most to not care any more, which is likely to happen over the next few short years. We should remember that most gamers that come to DF are pixel peeping, most gamers don't care about all that, they care about good enough, if AMD delivers on what they promise with FSR 3.1 working much better at lower resolutions and removing a lot of the motion artefacts, that might be good enough for most gamers to not care any more on which upscale a game is using, but it's a big if on AMD delivering, but it does bold well that they are working on the biggest weaknesses of FSR which is motion artefacts and lower resolutions, especially with performance modes, if they do resolve those two issues, I suspect most of us won't care apart from the elites that like to zoom in 8 times to look for flaws.

@DanKaschel Ай бұрын

@@paul1979uk2000 I guess it depends on how narrowly you define upscaling. In its current form, I agree. But I think the post-render pipeline will only get more important with time and in a decade will be more important than the render pipeline.