I just posted also that I wouldn't care and I just upgraded to a 6800xt and not upgrading for awhile. I don't want AMD to hold back innovation if it requires 7000 series cards. I did that with the GTX Super 1650 and I wasn't mad

yeah but the people saying what you're saying are the same people who yell and scream about dlss frame gen not being on 30 series.

I agree, it’s gotta happen at some point. Though doing like what XESS did is a much smoother way to make the transition

​@vextakes but isn't the fallback just fsr 2/3? Why wouldn't they have the capability to be backwards compatible?

And wanting better RT performance 🙄...

You gotta leave the bark on so the moss can grow. It's much more nutritious

You vill eat ze bugz, und you vill like zem!

Fine, big red play button website, I'll paraphrase my yeeted comment, even though I didn't use a single bad word: You shall consume the creepy-crawlies, and you'll be allowed to experience joyous emotions.

You guys are eating?

@@Plague_Doc22 Gotta get used to what nature is offering at some point, we can't afford to have generated frames shoved down our throats forever.

Oh, thanks for the info.

Exactly! This API is a game changer. It allows AMD to make changes to their upscaling technology (to include AI) w/o having to solicit game dev implementation. AMD can push for maximum innovation w/o having to maintain compat with previous revisions. Obvious this is true with Nvidia but they never had a problem with dev participation or leaving prev. gen behind for the next great technology.

Makes sense, a certain amount of abstract layering to get developers buy in is definitely a lesson learned from history, just look at the PS3 Cell CPU for why it's important.

​@@garyb7193nope Nvidia had the same idea with the Streamline API and it was rejected by devs

@@shanent5793 but this is going to be built into DirectX

And 6000 series

I'd love it to come to RX 6000 too I own RX 6800 and an software upgrade for the GPU would be awesome

It's coming on ps5 pro wich it's rdna 3 gpu costum

​@lord_nem3sis 6000 series doesn't have ai accelerators, only 7000 and newer will have ai upscaling.

@@DwaynedaGamer great. Just bought a 7800XT

Tru

yea but they didnt

They never will, AMD is and will always be inferior to Nvidia. This “catchup” game is old and played out.

@@IIaBllI like AMD a lot and I don't think it will always necessarily be behind Nvidia, it depends how they play it out, but what annoys me about AMD is how they're always playing catchup with Intel and Nvidia. They always release their CPUs and GPUs after their competitors, sometimes one year late, and they just copy their technology rather than invent their own. It would be cool if AMD for once released components first and were the ones to innovate on new tech.

@@armathyx AMD will always be behind Nvidia, that is the price they pay for being open source. If anyone with any hardware can use AMD features, they sell less hardware which = they have less money to invest into making better hardware. It all comes down to money, and nvidia has more of it. Mark my words, DLSS 5 or 4.1 or 4.5 whatever it is will probably pop up out of nowhere with the next RTX 5k series cards or maybe a brand new lineup of cards that are called something other than RTX and then FSR will once again be obsolete. This is the problem with AMD, jus when they are finally starting to catch up its already the end of a GPU gen and the next gen comes and they fall behind again. The early bird gets the worm, Nvidia is the early bird. The only good thing I can say about AMD, is for people on a budget their deals are very good and they are open source which is pro consumer and commendable. For people who want the best of the best though, they more or less won't touch AMD at all.

Same, Im glad I went with a 7800xt instead of a 6950xt

My guess is the AI upscaling requirement will be RX 6800 or above, since GFX1030 is the RDNA2-based LLVM target with HIP SDK requirement for ROCm. It would make no sense for AMD consumer GPU's officially supported by their machine learning platform to then not support AI upscaling. Of course RDNA3 GPU's would perform this more efficiently, but RDNA2 should not be locked out. But RDNA1 would definitely not support it.

If they do that I'm going back to ngreedia. 6000 series is plenty advanced.

@@MiGujack3I would wait for Battlemage and see how that does. Intel has proven they will improve drivers. NVIDIA just dropped GTX and literally all their newer RTX cards are overpriced. If AMD follows suit with the shady business practices then IMO its worth supporting cards that bring back some competition in price-performance.

that makes no sense whatsoever. they'd have to add new AI-specific hardware, wasting GPU real estate

They should just have FSR3 be the last FSR and then have a DLFSR as a new brand to be a new tech to build it as new brand so people dont think FSR is worse because of 1,2,3

@@imo098765 no they should obviously still update FSR to let older GPUs without ai cores to still live. The rx5700xt and 1080ti are still capable GPUs.

Improve FSR 3 but at the same time don't get rid of FSR 2. So you have the option to choo$3 between FSR 2 (Legacy) or FSR 3 (with the A.I.)

@@Jakiyyyyy fsr 3 is already non ai and it's also not upscaling. I swear the both companies missed the opportunity for a great naming scheme. I swear Nvidia and AMD are in cahoots and the AI vs non ai upscaling was the plan from the start. They both make more money when they give each other room to do the best instead of having too fast a release cadence or a price war. That sucks for them both. Working together to maintain the largest overall market value is what is best for both of them. I have no evidence but there is also no evidence in Jesus or God but half the world would kill each other off to prove that they are right. Point is of course there would never be proof but I'd bet anything they are in communication and plan accordingly.

​@@christophermullins7163 the majority share holder for both amd and Nvidia is the same company so here's your evidence

Still needs upscaling if you care about high framerate. But, then again you're likely not running RT features, without that perhaps. But I do like RT and high fps. So, noting is really powerful enough.

Honestly it really isn’t bad , unless you play a game to really put textures under a microscope and pay attention to every little detail, most of the time I just want 60fps on a single play game and I’m happy and it looks good , comp games I don’t care about textures , I have a 6800xt and I’m very content with it , I used to have a problem with upscaling but now I’m ok with it not because AMD is doing better just the fact it’s going to be part of every game so might as well take advantage of it . I feel you on that

@@SlyNine yeah , for now I don’t care about RT , if I did I would’ve gone to nvidia just for that but honestly I think both companies do have really great products and I use and like both , I don’t have a brand loyalty like a smoker who only likes Marlboro reds , I’m more of a if it fits my budget and needs then I’ll get it

@@AzSureno when I had a RTX 2070 Super, I didn't care about RT. But, now that I have upgraded to a 4090, I do care. Why? Because now I can see how good it looks with high framerate. It's one of those features that you finally get to use as intended and you see how great it is. You didn't care when you couldn't use it to its potential, but now that you can, it's awesome. Funny how that works.

@@ThisGuyDrives But you still can't use it to it's full potential, even spending $2000. "Full potential" has to be high refresh rate at Native. The need of Upscaling and frame generation degrades image quality, that is just facts. The 4090 requires all the help to achieve a high refresh rate.

True. Supports ai and ai acceleration is 2 different things I guess.

Yeah I used a 6700xt to do some stable diffusion and training on Linux. And it is slow compared to a 7900GPU But it is not slow compared to a older Nvidia that also support dlss. The real issue on old AMD is that every compute core that get the task of doing AI work is busy and can not work on pixel shader anymore. So it is hard to guess if it is going to be really helpful.

You mean RDNA 3, since the previous generation has no dedicated ML hardware.

@@Ivan-pr7ku No, according to the RDNA 2 Instruction Set Reference: "Dot product ALU operations added accelerate inferencing and deep-learning"

@@shanent5793Well, Pascal also supports DP4a, but it's wasn't advertised with particular AI capabilities.

That's so true I am sorry that this might come across stuck up or whatever but if you're using a damn 580,6600 6800 XT you can't expect much going forward you're on old hardware even people with a 6950XT is now on old RDNA2 hardware. So yeah if using AI is in their future starting with the 7000 series makes the most sense and if people want better looking FSR they'll need to ditch their old gpu and get a newer one it's simple. I no longer have my 7900 XTX it was amazing but on my 65 inch monitor you can 100% tell the difference between FSR and DLSS (I know people say you can't maybe not with a smaller screen but with a big one you can easily)

i agree, it's not fair hold back on new technologies and progress because of old hardware, they can't support old hardware forever.

Let's be real for a second. RX 6000 isn't that old and still performs pretty damn well. But where they're lacking is AI cores. The exact specific hardware that's needed for AI upscaling. People need to understand the limits of the hardware. And, in a lot of cases, people are in denial about that. I get it. You spent a lot of money on your card a few years ago and it's still relevant. But the hardware needed for AI simply isn't there.

They do, because the 1080 ti was so damn powerful.

@@user-yv2cz8oj1k Power and capability are not the same. They have the power while lacking the capability.

How'd you get a 6800XT cheaper than a 7600 non-xt?

@@Gamcoaster i got new 6950 XT for $420

@@christophermullins7163 the cheapest I see is above $900. That's essentially more than double of what you got.

You think it's bad to use upscaling? Even though it's improved a lot?

@@Gamcoaster There was a time here in Germany when 6950XTs where 500€, like a clearance sale basically

and we should never let them live it down

yes, because only 7000 series has the necessary AI accelerators. 6000 series doesnt have that, so they're gonna be stuck with the shitty form of FSR

Yeah, your comment would make sense if Intel didn't release XeSS, which in my opinion is less noticeable while gaming than FSR

Problem is AMD probably will not want to do the DP4a version.

I ​ Mean dp4a version hits performance alot, theyrw😢current fsr doesn't

Dude I have no idea what games you play where RT looks blurry but you might have other issues if thats the case

Rt doesn't seem worth it at all. In a few years when we get path tracing at 144fps without up scaling then we might be cooking

you should try cyberpunk 2077's path tracing, if that doesn't convince you then I suggest getting those eyes checked.

the "blurry" part is probably the result of some compromise that exchanges quality for performance .. the hardware definitely is still lacking raw power to deliver stuff with true full scene raytracing .. once the hardware arrives that can do it there will be a land-slide shift in the industry .. we are still in the build up phase .. Ray-tracing is nice but while the tech is here the performance delivered needs to improve.

Only pt seems to have major palpable effects but you need a 4070 ti super minimum to utilize them properly

It's because GPUs are vastly overpriced and developers don't give a crap about optimizing their games.

@@bnolsen upscaling is an optimization tool, relying on upscaling is optimizing sure rn it makes the game look worse, in the future games will look as good if not better, look at early TAA, it looked terrible, but modern TAA looks just as if not better then legacy anti aliasing methods, TAA started looking terrible and in some cases still does, but as devs learned how to used it and more importantly design assets with TAA in mind it started looking better and better all forms of optimization start looking bad, often much worse then upscaling currently does, but as devs learn the tool and the tool gets better games will look better as a result

its a new tool for optimization, were going to be excited for it, many people try and say relying on upscaling is lazy, but upscaling is an optimization tool, before upscaling devs relied on dynamic resolution, which is an objectively inferior option to upscaling many people think games are less optimized now, but we are half way through a new console generation, now is the time were seeing games only on modern consoles, those games will be harder to run, consoles are the baseline, devs target consoles because thats where most players will be (PC technically has more players but not all of them have powerful PCs, someone playing Counterstrike 1.6 on a dell optiplex from 2008 is technically a PC gamer and counts towards the statistics) so a game is optimized well if it runs well on consoles A lot of PC players need to get it through their thick skulls that modern consoles are powerful, about on par with the 3060, so if your GPU isn't vastly above that, which statistically it isn't, you should not be expecting more than console performance, but anything under I'd say a 3090 shouldn't expect vastly better then console performance, better for sure, but not vastly, if a game is well optimized (which most actually are on PC when you compare to their console counterparts) if you want double the FPS, you'd probably need over double the power (consoles run operating systems with many more built in optimizations allowing the hardware to be pushed more efficiently then PC hardware) so a modern game that hits 60FPS on console, you'd need at least a 4080 to get 120fps at console visuals, 4090 to push 120fps at max settings (all dependent on resolution obviously but the PS5 tends to render games at around 1440p)

People were always excited to play at a lower resolution if it meant they can try a new game before buying new hardware. Now thanks to the inference accelerators (or as the marketing types like to call it, "AI" "chips") the reduced resolution can look way less crappy, sometimes even better than native. Also, all frames are fake. They're generated by a computer after all. At least the path-traced ones are mathematically true to some extent, but most of games utilize anything from smoke and mirrors up to the famous "evil floating point bit level hacking" to give you a believable experience at an acceptable framerate. The infinite-FPS, infinite resolution, non-upscaled path traced stereoscopic experience is currently available only in theatres (the ones with stages, curtains and actors, not cinemas).

@flamingscar5263 TAA still is worse. Anything that downgrades or washes out the sharpness of the game or the view distance is a big nono. It doesn't matter if DLSS is better if I can't see the fence in the distance. This is not optimisation and also the resolution slider is not optimisation. It's the opposite. What does the game Dev doing? Just FSR and DLSS on the game and it's now optimised? Hahaha, no man. Even with DLSS look at cyberpunk as an example. 4080, 4k , High settings with RT and DLSS + FG. What do you think you will get with quality mode. 30 fps 😂 and that is 30 for a district that is not extremely hard on the HW.

I also saw his dog suddenly show up on his bed 😆

Radeon 5000 user here

No

@RAM_845 may be it will work like xess but will run slower than fsr 2.

Most likely no, only rx 7000 series have ai accelerators in them

6000 series doesn't have ai parts in them

tbh its easy to tell the differences between FSR and DLSS without a slow down and zoom in. FSR is just pure shit tbh while DLSS is acceptable on most games.

​@@lilpain1997 With normal footage, side by side, i also don't see the difference. With still frames sure. or moving when zoomed 200% (300% is a bit extreme) guess it depends from person to person With ray-tracing off and on side by side however is see it immediately. (but only side by side) And when they showed extreme up-scaling side by side 720p -> 4K (3x3) i also noticed it immediately (i would notice that even when it was not side by side)

IMO, you are 100% correct. If I'm playing something, I'm too immersed in the game to notice these little things that don't actually change how much fun the game is for me

CPU too weak

@@vladvah77 Oh come on, he only 11 years old. Surely a 7700X is plenty for a last generation 6950 XT.

damn he's lucky

​@@Kapono5150If it doesn't increase it's either a CPU bottleneck or you are super sampling instead of upscaling.

As much as love AMD and am hoping that the underdog lands a surprising uptick in image quality.. let's be real.. it won't be as good when it releases.

Nah you’re all good. You got a beast of a card, enjoy it. Don’t get caught up with all these performance metrics and price to performance.

It wont catch up, it will be their first AI upscaling tech while Nvidia will likely push out DLSS 4.0 by then which = far better. DLSS is already far ahead compared to FSR even in FSRs best implementation Avatar it still looks poor enough to not want to use it. Either way enjoy your card, I personally wouldnt have moved over seeing as the 7900xtx is a great card ( although power draw is horrendous ) but you do you.

Good choice, nvidia is better

​@@heroicsquirrel3195I wouldn't say better ngl both has advantages and disadvantages

@@NoSkillsBroI would rather it not tbh

I rather get both. Keep going on optimizing games and rerease GPU more powerful than ever, and improve upscaling to add more stuff or doing it in a more power-efficient way

Gpu's already have the hardware to accelerate AI tasks included, why not utilize it?

@@Goejii I think the upscaling is useful for older gpus to stay relavent for longer, but it shouldn't be the bread and butter for the latest gpus

u do understand rasterization has its limits and graphics cant really advance much without the need of upscaling since we are limited by our current hardware

Excellent. That's why older titles are the greatest anyway.

MOVE ON

I just finally made the jump from a Nitro+ 5700XT that I've had since early 2020 to a Nitro+ 7900GRE and I am very glad that I did. Its a great upgrade and IMO now is the perfect time to make a move for those of us coming from a 5700 level of performance. I intended to hold out for the 8800XT as that will likely be a very good buy when it releases, but the surprise 7900GRE being released worldwide was my sign to just do it. It is a nice bonus to also be able to enable real RT now though I will probably still be leaving it off in many games as it is just not worth the performance hit most of the time, especially for someone like me who much prefers to push for more pixels and fidelity than higher frames. I am happy with 60 or 75fps (the Hz of each of my monitors) and I would rather bump up the resolution (or use less upscaling to run at 4K) than have slightly (IMO) better lighting/shadows/reflections with RT. I find at this level of performance simply turning off some or all RT options can be the difference of using no upscaling at all to run otherwise maxed out 4K native in some games or less aggressive upscaling in others.

I do 4K but I see shimmer in starfield and cyberpunk. I stopped playing them because of it but avatar looks. Perfect!!!!!! Perfect frame gen and upscaling!! so I know it’s possible be absolutely incredible in every game

Unfortunately Ubisoft ruined fame gen in the latest patch. But you're right it was the best implementation of fsr 3 and frame gen to date. 4k 100+ fps on 7900xtx and super smooth. ​@@FrostyBud777

Shure MV7

KZfaqs compression algorithm destroys any visual comparison one can make. Using it in person however, you can see the big difference

😂

dude 🤣

Lmao, AMD`s logo used to be green.

Red is love ❤ Green means you need to touch some grass 🤢

I have Windows 10 IoT enterprise since it has 10 more years support compared to the others with 5 years support. Hopefully they implement on there as well. Worse comes to worst and it's not, Windows 11 IoT enterprise comes out this year. It's basically the most minimalist version of windows which I like. The less running in the background, the better. edit: I should say if it's better than FSR...

it's already been shown to be on a early access version of Windows 11 or at least parts of it and 22H2 is the last version of Windows 10 so I highly doubt it's gonna be supported on Windows 10 @@RideTheSkies

nah ur right, fsr is really close to dlss quality

You’re right it’s not the same. The 1080ti is a much older card. We’re talking 7 years vs 2 years with very large differences in raw performance. People who are still using the 1080ti will likely be looking for an upgrade this coming generation if they haven’t already, whereas people with a 6950xt will likely not for quite some time.

what is the point here?