I grew up Pentecostal and was taught to “seek for the baptism of the Holy Spirit” as evidenced by speaking in tongues. They did not believe you received the Holy Spirit until you spoke in tongues, so those that didn’t speak in tongues didn’t have that extra power. None of that teaching is biblical. I never did receive “the baptism of the Holy Spirit” even though I was seeking for it for years ☺️. Thankfully I now understand that all Christians have the Holy Spirit living in them. Thank the Lord for the solid biblical teaching I am now getting.

I'm 71 yrs and this subject has confounded me all my life. The last church I went to taught prayer language as a special gift. It created the haves and have not. Thank you for tackling this subject...it was very helpful!!

Very thankful for this conversation. I am a former Foursquare Pastor and recently our church (last year after 16 years) has become non-denominational. I spent a lot of time studying this subject and I knew that I couldn't reconcile the charismatic position on this subject. I desire unity but I also know that I led people into places of discouragement/spiritual abuse trying to conjure up a Holy Spirit secondary experience. Still being a continuest I am very thankful for the long road I've walked to be able to confidently stand where I am. Also very thankful for conversations like these that have been essential during my deep dives into these kinds of subject matters. Thanks Again!

Just this week I began re-reading the book of Acts to seek God's guidance on the baptism of the Holy Spirit and what it really means. After spending 25 years in Charismania, I knew that much of what I'd been taught was wrong and I left church in confusion and mistrust. I'm back in a solid, gospel preaching church now and feel born again, again. This video was timely for me. I plan to get JR Miller's book. His training and knowledge of the Word as a whole and in relation to this teaching rings with truth and the clouds of confusion are parting, at last. Thank you.

Thank you. I've been speaking about this for a long time. You just made it very clear. I'm very thankful for this episode. The church really needs this because the baptism of the Holy Spirit really is a divisive issue and something I've seen in 30 years of ministry. Again, thank you for addressing this and thank you Holy Spirit for giving each believer all the fullness they need at the moment of salvation. Lord, let us fuel that so that we can walk in it.

An interesting and encouraging discussion between Alisa and JR Miller. The Holy Spirit at work.

I believe the scriptures make it clear for every generation. The Word of God has been written for all to understand. There is no need to try to figure it out by looking at the culture of that day. If the scriptures say the disciples received a second baptism…then they did. Period.

I recommend this Toward a Pentecostal Theology of Glossolalia Book by Randal H. Ackland. it's a historical and theological view of Spirit Baptism from multiple Pentecostal denominations. I think it's of great source to understand this doctrine from a pentecostal perspective.

That was a great, thought provoking conversation. I absolutely love his explanation. Clear and concise. Thanks guys. God is good

Sister Alisa Childers. This is my take on that. We must Not base our theology on the experiences of cessationists or continuists but on the bible. Nowhere in the bible says that the gifts have ceased when the apostles died. The purpose of gifts is for the edification of the church. And the church is still here on earth and still needs to be edified. Of course the word of God and the Holy Spirit edifies us. But the bible also says that the one who speaks in unknown tongues as the Spirit leads is building himself up. The problem is this, The charismatics tend to based their theology on exoeriences., while the cessationist tend to based their theology also on unbiblical experiences of continuists also known us fake manifestation. But The bible says there are fake manifestation of gifts but there are also true biblical manifestations of gifts of the Spirit. Let the bible speak. The word of God is enough and profitable.

I am 70 years old and I have battled with that doctrine all of my life.

This was a very good and special conversation that I think the body of Christ should listen to! Thank you both for your services to the body of Christ 🙏🏾🙌🏾

This doctrine has brought about some of the most eye-opening experiences in my life. The first I can remember is driving back from a Christian camp with another woman from a different church. I am a Southern Baptist, and she is from the Assemblies of God. At that time, I thought there was not much difference between us. But in our discussion, and she told me that she believed I was not saved because I had not received the secondary event of the baptism of the spirit and spoken in tongues. It was very disheartening. I truly believe this woman is saved. We ministered together. Yet she did not believe that I was saved.

I plan to read the book. One thing I know is that in these last times we should not allow controversial issues to separate us. It is interesting that RA Torrey, DL Moody, AW Tozer, Andrew Murray, David Wilkerson, Dave Hunt, and Chuck Smith all believed the Bible taught a separate experience of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. My wife and I both experienced this as Baptists, and it changed our lives in our relationship with the Lord and our effectiveness in the Body of Christ. Let’s not loose unity over this, but work together. My current church does not teach this and I won’t let this affect my relationship with them.

I did hear God speak to me in an audible voice about thirty-five years ago it changed my whole life❤❤

I have been around people who claim that only if you have been baptised by the Holy Spirit you will "get" your "prayer language". It sounds like speaking in tongues but no interpreter is needed because it is just how you speak your prayers or when you speak prayers over someone. They claim you are either blocking the ability or you do not have the Holy Spirit in you if you can't do this. I disagreed & actually left the church I was going to because one of the elders was pushing this & also using declarative prayer where he was telling God what to do. Just couldn't buy into what they were saying so I found a church that fits my understanding of the Bible. Told an elder what I had problems with before I left but figured better for all if I just left because it was an internal conflict in me everytime I heard that & I didn't feel the peace I knew should be there when I went to that church.

Thank you for this conversation! Truly helpful and timely! 💞🙏🏻

Thank you for such an insightful and balanced approach to this divisive topic!

Thank you. Learning a lot from this content. Blessings from South Australia 🇦🇺.

I've heard a audible voice once .it scared me to the core .it was like someone was in the back seat of my truck and said my name LOUD. I didn't have a back seat .the rest of what I heard was a inner knowing but the holy spirit spoke my name and it terrified me .now I cherish the moment 😊

I find it interesting that so many people believe the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is divisive. The reality is that the Holy Spirit is the one who reconciles and not divides. I grew up in a Pentecostal (AG) background so the Baptism of the HS was always front and center. I came to a place where I realized the need to deconstruct all I had been taught in order to reconstruct in a healthy biblical way. That reconstruction of in depth bible study lead me to the belief that the Baptism of the HS is still very real, it is true and is still for the believer today. What I discovered in this reconstruction is not that the Baptism of the HS is divisive, it is mans discernment of whether someone has received the Baptism that is divisive. We have to remember that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not to show others 'how spiritual we are', but in fact they are for the edification of the church. The Baptism is an empowering to enable the church to do the work of the Kingdom.

I too am 71 years old. My case was tragic/great where a weakness is set upon one from birth unrelenting until at 18 years old the intolerable disconnect has to be addressed. I was not religious all through High School. But fasted for three days the last years but did not pray as the trite sort of prayers I knew of did not seem to fit the circumstance. After graduation i fell in with the hippies of Boulder, Colorado and walked off when an official LOVE-IN was scheduled. Not many yard out I felt the slightest touch in my heart. I was shocked to feel the love of God after 18 years of accepting that I was not worthy to be loved. Earning some money I struck out on my own again driving down to Los Angeles. I played bass guitar and wasted a month playing in four bands and recording sessions. New Years 1970 I quit all and walked out to the beach and sat their craving a healing. I learned how to pray with real intent when my car broke down in the middle of the desert in the dark of night. That was key to feel like you are actually making contact. After craving a healing for three weeks I was visited at prayer with the question put to me as to if I were willing to take upon me the name of Jesus Christ with full purpose of heart and at any hazard in this life? YES ....then again, the same question at a lower more earnest level of intent and purposefulness. YES! Then a third time down into the very depths of earnestness and a broken heart and contrite spirit. YES! I knew that was all I could do. I sat on the edge of my bed and was fully wrought upon by the power of the Father's baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. It healed me great and put me out of the park from where I was raised. I had a prophecy that got fulfilled within a little more than a month. My intellect was super advance and my witness was basically rejected and even hated by my home people who thought I was lying or trying to become something I could not possible be. A lifetime of great works that rival Bible stories. You never know.

Love this!!🧡

I was raised as a Southern Baptist, believing those Pentecostal types were being led astray by demons. Now I'm 60 and belong to an AG church. I'm not completely on-board for everything, but my mind is open. I look forward to this conversation.

Great doctrinal discussion on biblical principles and truths. Unity in diversity is the heart of Christ for his body . Races, Cultural traditions, languages, are the fabric of humanity within God,s creation. Just as within the Christian Church there are many differing denominations that formed from moves of the Holy Spirit through the Church age starting from the first New Testament Church. My own experiences have shown me that from a young age I received the Holy Spirit as a young Catholic school student. Then in my late teens recommitted my life to Christ at a Pentecostal Church was Baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit as this was promoted within this Church. This was very real and powerful in my Christian walk.The upper room baptism of the fire of The Holy Spirit was an annointing imparted to the disciples as planned by Jesus as the power of God in them to go forth and fulfil their ministries as Apostles. This is an impartation given to believers who walk in one or more of the fivefold ministry offices and callings.

Alisa & Joe- I am just 22 minutes into your discussion and I'm loving it & learning so much! Pneumatology- didn't know that is what it is until today! Thank you! May God bless you and your ministries!

Beautiful!! 😍

The orthodox, Calvinistic pastor/theologian Martyn Lloyd-Jones supports baptism of the Holy Spirit as something to be sought after by every Christian . That made me take a second look at this topic. But one needs spiritual discernment/Scripture knowledge/humility since there’s a lot of false spirits.

I really enjoyed this conversation! This has brought helpful clarity to my mind about this topic. Thank you!

Great discussion. I'm curious to see what you would believe or explain about the disciples being filled over and over again in the book of Acts. Surely, that's not them being saved again and again?

A very helpful and balanced discussion. Thank you! Just bought Dr. Miller's book.

I heard the auditable voice twice. Once you've heard it, no other voice will satisfy you.. 💛 Thank you. Amazing video! God bless you.

I appreciate this view. I think it's hard to cover everything in one hour as well, so great job with what you had. This is an area of division unfortunately for some people who hold too tightly to passages out of context. There is so so so much more about Holy Spirit in the Bible than in the scripts mentioned here. Great discussion!

I spent many years in pentecostal churches where the belief is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit must be accompanied by speaking in tongues, which was actually just unintelligible babbling. And if one did not speak in tongues he was not saved. I have since rejected this doctrine because I don't find it in the Scriptures.

Thanks for the great episode. I have been struggling with this topic for a while now especially with the way my denomination approaches the topic. They basically believe that a "true Christian" is baptized with the Holy Spirit in a special moment where they experience great joy, peace and all the warm fuzzy feelings. The part that I struggle with the most is the part about us having to "seek" the Holy Spirit and make special prayers to receive the Holy Spirit. They even teach that you need to sacrifice for this by fasting, evangelizing or even giving a special offering ,basically we are taught the Holy Spirit is a reward for something you have done to prove yourself to God. I really struggle with this teaching since I don't see it in the bible.

Very informative episode! I went to a Assemblies of God church when my mother & brother & I started to go to church. There were still things about speaking in tounges that I didn’t fully understand. One thing I didn’t like was that my old home church at the time (I don’t know if it is in the denomination or what the church believed in) was that everyone had to be baptized in the Holy Spirit by speaking in tongues & if someone didn’t then there was something wrong with his or her relationship with God. I was very scared for a moment I didn’t realize I overwhelmed myself to wanting to have that happen everyday though I already did spoke in tongues & now I realized I can’t force God’s prescience on me. I learned to keep seeking God’s presence & just him do the work & forcing it on me.

Our church really emphasizes “baptism of the Holy Spirit”. They hold spirit nights, teach on prayer language, etc. They call it a “spirit-filled church or spirit-filled people” which definitely creates the “haves and have nots”. I started getting a question mark in my mind when fellow Believers (& our pastor) were telling me I just need to just open my mouth and begin making sounds. I need to start it an the Holy Spirit will take over. I just don’t think speaking in tongues is actually what it’s being made out to be here.

I like Got Questions answer for "What is the baptism of the Holy Spirit?" and "What is the filling of the Holy Spirit?" Indwelling and baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at salvation. Filling of the Holy Spirit happens as we submit ourselves to God's will, yielding to the Holy Spirit. Then we produce the Fruits of the Spirit and live out our faith.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3 We want so much to systematize the activity of God. We have the scriptures to guide and instruct us but when we try to take our experiences and create doctrine from them, we always fall short.

We only know in part. I believe God only reveals to us different parts of Him bc He wants us to practice patience with each other. If the Bible seems to suggest both, then it's both and neither has been fully revealed to us!

Very grateful as well. I've been meaning to look up teaching about these issues and this just popped up! I have a friend who talks all the time on FB about needing to have the baptism of the holy spirit, meaning a secondary experience, and that you are basically powerless without it and it's mandatory that Christians get this baptism. I just don't engage. But once he was promoting Kenneth Copeland and I couldn't hold my tongue. I tried to be polite.

I became interested in the topic of cessationism/continuationism after dating a girl who was Pentecostal and claimed to speak in tongues. I would agree with Paul Washer and consider myself a "practical cessationist." I can't say that the sign gifts have ceased, but what passes for the sign gifts today doesn't line up with scripture. 1) Speaking in tongues is a real phonetic, human language (Acts chapter 2) 2) I've never seen speaking in tongues demonstrated Biblically. (1 Corinthians 14:27-28) 3) Speaking in tongues was a sign of judgement to unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22 )

Thank-you for your thoughtful interview. I really liked it. One of my fav scriptures on this is John 7:38,39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. One of the things we have to be cognizant of while we are delving into the question about all this is 1Cor 13:8, For now we see in a mirror, dimly, the mirrors back then were very crude brass, as smart as we are, and you 2 are very smart, we all still have this spiritual astigmatism, we all end up being myopic to one degree or another, so after all the differing narratives and nuances w/i them we will never accurately be able to totally see the big picture of what the bapt of the H.S. is and isn't. God seems to break all the boxes we put Him in. The sweet thing is that the love and grace of God is bigger than our differences, like God loves us and works w/ and w/in us in spite of our lack of perfection. Much of the historical context of this conversation is post azuza street revival. Some of those Azuza videos are still available to watch and honestly for me, I'm closest to Assembly of God, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable in those meetings. But God worked powerfully in spite of the messiness. I like things done properly as much as the next guy, but I was standing next to my wife when she was healed - it was legit, and it was a messy church. Some years ago I read "The Story of Christianity" in volume 2 it described the beginnings of some of the mainline denominations, it wasn't too hard to see that it was an outpouring of the H.S. combined with some serious continuous prayer was the power behind all those revivals. So here we are 2023 trying to put 2000+ years into biblical perspective. I like how God talks of the gifts in I Cor 12 and 14 and nicely sandwiched in between them in 13 He tells us to be nice to each other and if you are not nice you are nothing. God is smarter than you and He's certainly smarter than me. LOL Ok Ok I'll stop with this, just for fun pretend as best you can that you've don't know anything about Christianity and then read 1Cor 12:28 "God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 For hermeneutical context read all of 12, 13 and 14, These were Paul's/God's instructions to us how to do church. kinda scary isn't it.

The united Pentecostal church used to teach that baptism of the Spirit was needed for salvation. Baptists used to think that Pentecostals were of the devil it is changing now where some baptists are becoming deliverance ministries that also believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I. Was saved by hearing an audible voice of God while living in central Texas serving in the Army in 1978

First time on this channel. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said about unity! So much so that I am hesitant to post this comment! I believe there is a Holy Spirit baptism, and that it is important, but I would not identify it as a “core essential doctrine.” How we believe on this point does not change who God is, how we are saved, or how much God loves and accepts us, so I agree with Mr. Miller’s basic answer to the question. However, my brother went a step beyond simply answering that question! He made it clear that he does not believe there is a Holy Spirit baptism, per se. He basically said; You can hold on to your experience and believe what you want regarding Holy Spirit baptism, but it is not really what you think it is. That is my summary of what he said, not a direct quote. His unconvincing answer to your Acts 8 and Acts 19 questions made his position perfectly clear. Since you agree with Joe Miller, I commend you for asking those pertinent questions! Some, perhaps many, Charismatic/Pentecostal congregations have departed from biblical guidelines. That sad situation does not change that fact that an experience separate in time from initial salvation, is recorded several places in the book of Acts. Dividing over this issue, in my opinion, would be sin. No, I am NOT implying that you folks are doing that! Only that the content of the video departed somewhat from the stated intention.

I am 73 years old. At 21 I first experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but I had so many questions that I did not live in it for another 30 years. I use tongues (glossolalia) in a personal way in a small prayer group. I find it actually helps my prayers, to get over a hump of disbelief. In this prayer, I recognize this as a gift and not something that makes me "better than you." When people are invited into speaking in tongues, we have to realize that there is a hurdle here. The question is, when someone in the service starts speaking in tongues as part of their prayer, if you feel this is a barrier to you entering into prayer with them, then this is problematic for uniting with them in prayer. I have been on both sides. I find now that I express myself in tongues, it is with a desire to help others to enter into faith.

Not essential to be saved, yes, but I believe it's essential for Christian living, witness, and stewarding a deep and dynamic relationship with God. Would you enlist in the army and not be interested in using some of the most powerful weapons available? No. Why would you not want everything that God wants to give you? I'm sorry for all who have felt slighted by those with superiority, but God wants to offer all of his children the gifts and empowerment of the Holy Spirit. It is essential. It's needed now in these days we're living in more than ever. More than niceness and intellect and sweet bedtime prayers and good sermons and podcasts. We need power to demonstrate God's glory to the hardened hearts of unbelievers.

John 2:22 When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. This happened before the Pentecost in Acts 2.The disciples received the Holy Spirit in John 2:22 and experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2. You receive the Holy Spirit to be born again, you are baptised in the Holy Spirit to live out the born again life. It is a very personal thing. Some Christians may think that they don't need the experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and are happy with it. However, you never experience what you never experience.

I speak in tongues every day, but I know that there are many people who do not speak in tongues who know the Lord better than I do. My very charismatic pastor says it this way: “tongues don’t make me better than you; they make me better than me.”

I like the description of Acts 19 at the end. The various design patterns that are used in the Bible aren't really well known to the average Christian nowadays, which is a shame. Once you start looking into them you see the Bible in a whole different light and have so much more appreciation than you do already for it.

Very insightful and well explained, especially the Acts 8 and Acts 19 Holy Spirit baptism accounts. Interesting that when we see the baptism at Pentecost, it's done some time after the believers became disciples which is also the case when Jesus breathed the Spirit on them. Perhaps the timing of the baptism may occur at a later time for some believers which could be reflective of unique circumstances in God in a believer's Walk. Though, the Bible's pattern appears to reveal that the baptism should come soon after salvation. Perhaps it may not come upon some until they are water baptised or after, in apparent reflection of Acts 2:38 yet there is no water baptism in the Acts 10 Spirit account. Being that power to witness is endowed by the Spirit re Acts 1:8, it seems that it's a 'special presence' of Spirit-infilling/anointing that imbues the ability or power to witness which accompanies the Person of the Holy Spirit indwelling believers.

Thank you for all you do! I'm in NY and would love to attend one of your conferences. Would you ever be in the area?

❤❤

Are we deprecating what is available for us by trying to choose unification over the fullness of the Spirit?

Question. Why did the Samaritans need the Holy Spirit when they are believers already . The Jews accepted them after they received the same “ seal of the Holy Spirit “ and the accompanying manifestation

"When you separate yourself by belief, nationality or tradition, it breeds violence. So one who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, religion or political party, but is concerned with the total understanding of mankind." J.Krishnamurti

I came to Christ in a charismatic congregation in 1971. Of course they prayed for me to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit after I confessed Christ as my savior. But about 10 years later I began to question much of what they were teaching about tongues and the baptism among other things. I wonder what my pastor who was there that night would think about this video.

You read the verse in Acts , it says that they were filled with the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and prophesied you didn’t expound on that?

Alisa I appreciate you asking and exploring tough questions. I left RCC after 57 years and have been attending my husband's Pentacostal church for 2 years. I value the sermons of this pastor but can't agree that talking in tongues is evidence of baptism of the H. S. Also, their music is no longer hymns and psalms, but contemporary with some lyrics not even mentioning the Lord or Jesus. They don't have corporate prayer or creeds. I believe they used to but changed when they redecorated the sanctuary. My soul hurts and I wonder if I can accept any Church as they all seem to take a scripture and devise a whole denomination out of it!

David Pawson has several videos teaching on The Trinity, The Gifts of The Holy Spirit and much more. His unlocking The Bible videos and books are wonderful and enlightening. He said the word used for God in Genesis actually means 3 and other hints of the Trinity through the Old Testament. In The New Testament, the Trinity is used often for example... The love of God, the grace of The Lord Jesus Christ and the fellowship of The Holy Spirit.

God's Spirit is within the heart and very being of us, His Children. Never understood the pastor's who call to the heavens "I want more of your Spirit Lord!". Huh? Whaat?

(Acts 19:2) "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed" looks like there is a second baptism. Also that story about Smith Wigglesworth punching someone, and they died is not true. One thing I have noticed is that people who have excuses for being powerless put down those who, in the past, allegedly had power. We weren't there, we don't know for certain it is defamation. Best to not judge.

Answer to question, YES because Jesus spoke of this often and told followers to seek baptism of water and spirit!

Honest Q: modalism was contemporaneous with early trinitarianism. Why is it considered heresy instead of just heterodox? It affirms the absolute deity of Christ, oneness of God, humanity of Christ, etc…just restricts itself to only biblical equivalent terminology whereas trinitarianism allows for extra-biblical and (a step further) non biblical equivalent terminology. Thoughts?

Where’s the list of the essentials?

All life is a work of the Spirit.

In reference to Acts-chapter 19:1-6. Paul has met a group of believers who have been baptized by John’s baptism following repentance through Jesus. These have not received the gift of the Holy Ghost. Paul goes on to tell them about being baptized, in the name ofJesus, and being filled with the Holy Ghost. After they are filled, they are speaking with tongues. All through the chapters of Acts and in I Corinthians it many times referenced that after people have been filled with the Holy Ghost they speak in tongues. I was a little confused about the man sharing his viewpoints. I always follow the word of God, not a doctrinal belief by man. We all should follow the word of God. These are some thoughts I thought I could share also in light of what he said. I have really enjoyed watching you on this podcast. I know you might have been led astray by charismatic circles that you were in. I also was involved in some charismatic churches, but also the Church of God and the Assembly of God. No matter what our experiences may have been whether good or bad the Bible still holds true. The Bible still references numerous times of the Holy Ghost indwelling people. And that is still as good today as it was then. Remember, in Acts where Peter says and this promise is to your children and your children’s children and to as many as the Lord our God shall call. That does away with the belief that it is gone and it does not manifest itself still today. Thank you so much and have a wonderful evening. 🙏

Was it the kind of situation where someone pronounces your name wrong and you don't correct it the first time, and then it becomes too awkward to say something as time goes on and you've had them on for multiple podcasts? 😅 I get it, I was Amanda rather than Annabel to one of my professors at college for 3 years, until my course mate decided to correct him at graduation haha

Is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit a Core Essential Doctrine? It depends what you mean. If the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is another description of the new birth then it is indeed a core doctrine. If you are referring to a "second blessing" or special anointing, this can be a divisive topic though one preacher, it might have been Moody, said, "I don't care what you call it, just get it!"

What is so frustrating is the baptism of the Holy Spirit; for me, if I am not or have not, does that mean I am not in Gods will as much as those who have been? If I am not laughing in the spirit, or I am not doing some super natural work, am I not going to be in His favor? Will my blessings not be as many as those who are baptized in the spirit?

I don't see a link to his book... Amazon says it's out of print 😞

Relatives have told me for years that since I don't speak in tongues I am not a Christian 😢

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the born-again / re-birth experience of salvation....with or without tongues & with or without water baptism. So, YES....it is Core Doctrne. B of HS is "the WASHING of rebirth & renewal by the Holy Spirit". Titus 3:4-7 "This baptism saves you..." 1 Peter 3:21 And we believers "have all been baptized by one and the same Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:13

Matthew 3:11 ”I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” John 1:32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Just to be clear we’re not talking about the results of this ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’ to be people quacking like ducks, barking like dogs, rolling in the aisles or swinging from the chandelier right? From my 35 years in the ‘charismatic movement’ there are many extremes! Give me a church that is grounded in biblical exegesis!

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love [Matthew 5:44; John 13:34; John 15:12; Galatians 5:22], I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Do you feel you received and accurate understanding of the Holy Spirit while attending ORU? I'm a Pentecostal, but would never attend a university associated with Robert's, Hagin, Copeland or Johnson. Their error in practice comes from a twisting of doctrine and theology.

I wish you would have discussed tongues more. Like did you speak in tongues and now don't? There was a time that I was taught to seek tongues. They didn't come naturally so I made up syllables like I was told until a "prayer language" developed. I used this language for years but after leaving a church due to NAR, I began to question everything. So to this day, this language sometimes comes out of my mouth when praying or worshipping and I stop and tell God to show me if I should be speaking that. I haven't received a clear answer from Him yet. 🤔

Hebrew 6:1-4 doctrine of baptisms. Not discussed. Sounds like a very generic definition. Playing it safe Jesus was pretty strong in His language about not leaving Jerusalem until. John 20 Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit. Did they? No Discussion here.

A Continuationist is better described as a Restorationist in my opinion . This is based on writings on people involved in the Azusa Street Revival. Then more recently Che Ann (New Apostolic Reformation). There are some well documented KZfaq presentations that cover this. I have a collection of material (videos/writings/books) of people that have “heard from God”. Often resulting in negative consequences or manipulating others. Then you look at the other religions and the Christian cults that have origin in subjective experiences and we now have a witches brew of theology and doctrine. Do you go to a doctor or a car mechanic that operates on inner impressions??

I truly feel like I'm in grade school with this guy? First the Bible says those who are lead by the Spirit are the Sons of God! Then it says if you don't have the Spirit your not of Him? How can someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit walk United with someone who isn't? They cannot? The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ Spirit living in you! So I no longer am trying to save the world but Christ is ministering thru me? The Baptism is the full Born Again Experience and yes you will speak in tongues! Today we have so many speaking in tongues that are not of the Holy Spirit? The Bible says you will know them by there fruit 🍓 Love, Joy, Peace , Long-suffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith , Meekness, Self Control, And the gifts of the Holy Spirit come thru the Holy Spirit as Jesus sees fit to distribute them to His servant! I cannot cast a demon out without a Spirit Filled believer who is filled with the Holy Spirit who believes the same! How can someone explain as spiritual things to someone who does not have the fullness of the Spirit? I cannot! Just like John's the Baptist Disciples said we have not even heard of the Holy Ghost! Until Paul layed hands on them they did not have the Holy Spirit! Many deny Holy spirit today! The Holy Spirit teaches you and leads you after your Baptized in the Holy Ghost! You feel like a baby at what ever age you are when Baptized with the Holy Spirit and then the Holy Spirit teaches you how to walk in the Spirit! You feel every sin, scar, and your past leave when you are born again? As you read God's word more you will learn that the Holy Spirit opens up more understanding and is in agreement with the Word Of God! So much more? Speaking in tongues is God's prayer language praying they you! And it molds you to be more like Jesus? So whatever is done either casting demons out, healings, prophecy , decernment, whatever Gifts will be Jesus working thru you ministering to the world! All Glory and Honor must go to Jesus

Also, Jesus was introduced in all four gospels as the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit. Only born-again children of God are baptized with or in the Holy Spirit. You must be born again before you can see or enter the kingdom. After you are born again you can receive the promise of the Father, the gift of the Holy Spirit. The apostles were born again on the day of Jesus' resurrection. On that day Jesus called them His brothers and called His God their God and His Father their Father. That is evidence that they were born again and in the new covenant. Fifty days later they were baptized in/with the Holy Spirit and clothed with power (dunamis) from heaven. Being clothed with power is different from being born again. It was the beginning of God pouring out His Spirit on all flesh and not just select individuals. Born again believers were baptized in the Holy Spirit, not unregenerated people.

If your guided by the Holy Spirit completely you can’t be wrong. The problem with us humans is we’re in this fleshly bodie in a fallen world and are not in tune 24/7. If someone divides on doctrine only one can be right. We have no connection to God but through the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is our High Priest that we bring our petitions to through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our connection to God. Without the Holy Spirit we are spiritually dead

The unity longed for by your guest and so many of us will never be realized as long as "superior Christians" look down on Pentecostals as ignorant, unlearned people, going so far as to say that speaking in tongues is demonic. Seems to me that those are the people who cherish disunity over unity in the Body. But thats okay. If I remember correctly, God used a few "ignorant and unlearned men" to turn the world upside down for Christ! ❤

I grew up Pentecostal, and I am still Pentecostal, but there is such a misconception with people from the other side because we never have a discussion. I have been told my entire life that people who believe in the trinity worship 3 gods and worship 1... can you imagine my shock when I found out that wasn't true, lol. I'm sure that there are misconceptions you have about Pentecostals too, lol

Many years ago the late theologian Don Barnhouse did a talk on One Church. No, he wasn't talking about all of us uniting into one denomination. He talked about how it is about 5% of what you believe that I totally disagree with. That is true of all denominations. Five percent. And what do we as a body of Christ do? We concentrate on the 5% and don't work together. Sad

I would classify myself as a charismatic, but I don't agree with the second filling theology that is common. It was described to me as a goblet that you fill to the brim with liquid, but it does not overflow. That is the baptism of the Holy Spirit when you get saved. The second baptism of the Holy Spirit is like adding extra liquid to what is already there to make it overflow. That second gives dose is what gives access to speaking in tongues. I don't think that second dose is needed but instead the original liquid that was poured in is the source and everything signs and wonders related comes from that. The baptism at salvation shouldn't require another dose, if you will.

I keep trying to like, but it won't work 😞

Acts 8 and Samaritans - The apostles had to come to Samaria to verify the account and ALSO to lay hands on the new believers and confer the ability to perform miracles (further equip them for ministry) precisely because Phillip did not have the ability to lay hands on them and confer the gift of miraculous works himself. Although Phillip could perform miracles (after the apostles laid hands on him in Acts 6) apparently he could not confer that ability onto others or else he would have. That's why the apostles came. Yes the Samaritan believers were saved by Phillip, his message of repentance, and baptizing them with water in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. They were faithful believers who could not speak in tongues, prophecy, or heal until the apostles came and laid hands on them. 2 separate manifestations of the Holy Spirit - the indwelling and the outpouring. Indwelling confers salvation (at initial repentance and water baptism). Outpouring confers miraculous works (at either baptism of the Holy Spirit from "on high" aka straight from heaven OR via laying on at the apostles hands as Acts 8 clearly states).

When an infant is baptized, he/she is regenerated by the Holy Spirit. As they grow, they have the need to seek to be always filled by the Holy Spirit so as to live a holy life. As for tongues, I have yet to encounter anyone who suddenly is able to speak a language, say French or Urdu, without having learned it. If that were to occur, it woukd have worth only if it could be understood by a speaker of that language. Anybody can produce sounds that mimic language to some extent. What I have heard as "tongues" is more akin to babbling the same repeated sounds.

Nice to meet you Alisa ; Any person born physical on earth is a witness to the true spirit light of Life ; that each human was Already born from above - that is why they showed up on earth ; everyone being equal by the spirit of Father and Son, even as each person who had also come into the Israel system (world) of covenants, i.e, John 1:9.10 ; et al. Dear friend you may really like meeting the Last Adam in spirit that once for all replaced the first adam, realizing that all sin (misaim) was based upon breaking of precept or covenant law, of which requirements none have been born with or under for almost 2000 years . That with simplicity to say, that no one can misaim in the eyes of Elohim, without having Israel's new covenant or law, to transgress or to break . I am thankful mam to be hearing your video that i may refer to the true grace and peace, instead of a new coven religion given to Israel, of which religion i myself once used to entertain, but then having found that ended at the second coming over Jerusalem with Christ's messengers ... this I am typing by Father's kindness to be thankful, and to bless you my brother in the true family of God with all humanity. .

Great conversation. One issue I had is that the idea that the goal is to have nothing of ourselves left. I don't think that is a biblical idea. God made humankind so there would be each of us - having His nature, but distinct and different persons. It is our sinful nature that we want to be redeemed, sanctified, and ultimately (in heaven) gone. One of the recurring themes from people who died and experienced heaven was they were more themselves (more real) than on earth. How can we love others as we love ourselves if there is "nothing" of ourselves to love. I think it is actually harmful to tell people that we want ourselves to be nothing, like we have no value and that God doesn't really like us.

Thank you for slowing down the cries of heresy. Way too overblown. Left a Women in Apologetics group online because of the constant heresy vibes.

When Jesus breathed upon the disciples telling them to “Recieve the Holy Spirit”… he was ONLY looking fwd to the time of Pentecost in which he promised “you will recieve” the Holy Spirit. If, this single statement upon breathing on his disciples, as many wrongly interpret, is the disciples ACTUALLY RECIEVING the Holy Spirit then something is wrong here…for the apostles mark their born again cleansing as their baptism with the Holy Spirit in defending the faith, repentance unto eternal life, and also reception of the Holy Spirit of gentiles as like unto their own SALVATION at Pentecost clearly for all to read in Acts 10,11, & 15. Additionally, when Jesus is resurrrcted…he is yet STILL WITH THEM. So, the Advocate (Holy Spirit) would neither have indwelt nor baptized any of them per Jesus earlier testimony of the Spirits arrival. (Jn 16:7)

Paraphrasing: "You don't need the label Holy Spirit baptism." The label "Holy Spirit baptism" is not something made up by men. It was mentioned by the Lord ("remain in the city until you receive power from on high") as something the disciples/apostles would experience if they obeyed him and remained in Jerusalem. so not only was it a specific experience, it happened in a specific place. The experience here is NOT JUST in what they (the apostles) were able to do (speak in tongues, etc) but was also HOW it happened. How this "pouring out" happened was with visible tongues of fire from heaven and the audible sound of a rushing of wind. The next time it happens is with the encounter with Cornelius. Peter describes the experience in Acts 11 saying "the Holy Spirit came down on them in he same way as it came on us at the beginning." So we can presume that there were visible tongues of fire and an audible sound of winds in the home of Cornelius. This specific way that the Holy Spirit "came down" is never described or referenced again anywhere in Acts or in the NT. It's only these two instances. Peter's affirmation in Acts 11:16 "...you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit" is confirmation that a baptism in the Holy Spirit is an event just like the one we observe in Acts 2. We can address what happens after this baptism (the ability to perform miracles) later and also see that this event isn't necessary any longer as observed in Acts because conferring miracles is replaced from the Holy Spirit "coming down" on people with one of the elementary teachings - the "laying on of hands."

How can Spirit Baptism be a doctrine from 1901 after we just read from the book of Acts! What????? I've heard an audible voice while I was praying while doing laundry at home praying for my oldest child. It was a clear loud voice, I was so surprised and touched by it. The message was clear, grateful for the answer. I don't know if it was the voice of the Holy Spirit or an angel, but it was precious to me. I've had visions in prayer, received messages for others, and am privileged humbled that God would use me from time to time. At times, I cried out for it for answers and intimacy with God. I'm not crazy about the hyper charismatic movement, but like your guest said, don't quench the Spirit, and please don't ridicule it! I'm so so tired of the accusers of the brethren who are at least trying, bolder in following God, so tired of the religious critics, it so saddens me so much, but yes, I agree, language and how we use it is so important.

The UPCI believe you MUST receive the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues. Sadly, they exclude the Christian church in total.💔

British Bible teacher, the late David Pawson solved this whole issue with a book called " The Normal Christian Birth". We don't Birth Christians properly now. Far too many Christians have been given the sinners prayer, or told to ask Jesus in to their hearts. This is not how the early Christians did it. We have forgotten that the same man( Paul) who wrote many of the epistles also laid hands on converts to receive the Holy Spirit. He also spoke in tongues and practiced Spiritual gifts! We read ourselves into the epistles but the leaders of the New Testament Church wrote to churches with people who were converted as described in the book of Acts. The normal Christian Birth entailed faith,repentance, water baptism and then Spirit baptism. When was the last time you saw someone dealt with like this in your Church? This was a much more action based and practical affair.We have reduced conversion to a private, quiet, almost inward affair. I suspect, this is why the Holy Spirit, Spiritual gifts etc... are a complete mystery to most Christians now. Confusion reigns from people trying to artificially whip up Spiritual experiences to others who treat the book of Acts as some sort of historical artifact with no contemporary relevance. The new testament Church was the original "Pentecostal Church." They didn't have any confusion regarding this. But we do! We're not doing it right!

We have a tendency to overstate the gifts of The SPIRIT,and overlook the fruit of The SPIRIT,the lat -ter is the backbone,the roots of who we are as new creation in YEHOSHUA HAMASHIACH 🙏 ♨️✝️ 🕊 🛐 🔥 🤲🏽 Also we do not treat The RUACH KODESH as a person we can quench,grieve,blas- pheme 🥺 😥 💔 😢 😭 We do not 👂👂👂👂,👁👁👀 HIM as a Person 😉 🤔 🤭 🙄 😏

Does this woman ever come up for breath😮 it's like she's interviewing herself🤗