Judging from the scenario a needlessly large rod was probably the move instead of completing morello's

@@khalilli6613 I believe you, but if they want this segment to be anything other than a "shots fired" segment they should add an explanation.

@@HT-jj5sx I mean 90% of the time for Morello it is is just better to save 100 more gold and get the Guise insteaf of completing. That or work towards DCap. Instead of Banshees for this clip you should 100% go QSS if you want defensive MR items.

@@HT-jj5sx ls stands for liandries salesman so I think they know which Item they are supposed to build, otherwise they do tell what to buy. Did you even watch the video?

@@josephmckenney-barschall864 Yup, they pointed out the Morello but didn't give an alternate choice. Later they did the whole "let the picture speak for itself" deal.

Haven’t played league since 2015 but I watch this and dude be right based off what I watch in the professional leagues

200 years of experience Morello is hot garbage compared to your ad champs getting exe

I mean both examples you gave shouldn't spend 3k gold on a super selfish item as a support when the likes of Knights Vow, Locket, Zekes, and Stoneplate exist.

@@amethonys2798 iceborn gauntlet is 2700 gold. It's also an aoe slow effect

@@khalilli6613 With an awful build path and again, doesn't do as much items that cost 500g less than it. Leona comes back into lane with a Sheen and gets blown up because she could have a Chain Vest/Kindlegem going towards Knight's Vow.

@@amethonys2798 you could build the armor component lmao

@@khalilli6613 Alright fine we can compare Zekes with IBG then after Glacial early. For 1800g on IBG we get 45 armor and 10% CDR. 250 mana is incredibly "whatever" for a champion like Leona. For 1350g on Zeke's you get 40 armor (5 less) and 30 MR. The only REAL loss is the 10% CDR, but since we have 450g to work with we can also throw in any component item we want to also offset this including a Ruby Crystal that goes towards a Kindlegem in 350. Now we can look at both unique passives, but Zeke's comes out miles ahead on a support. It does straight up more damage since a support is going to be super underleveled and get nothing out of like 70 damage on the sheen auto and Zeke's also offers a moving slow zone that doesn't constantly overlap with your other forms of CC, which again, does way more damage than Sheen unless Leona got buffed to have 120 base AD at level 8/9. This isn't even considering the 30% damage increase on your AD.

Urgot and hec mid

They could do that because they abused shopkeeper, not lost to it.

LS mentioned at the end non-natives like Bjergsen don't seem to struggle as much

@@christopherbaker8831 true that, Berj got smashed by Keane's Urgot and within a few weeks was playing it himself.

AbominationalFailure Yup, two non natives. I think one other player might have brought it out once but that was Team Gravity’s answer to the zed meta

I mean pen orb is in alot of games really good, but compelting morellos is almost always a waste, espassially because most ap can't utilize the healing reduction as well as the ad/tank options can be utilized.

its not that no one is playing them cause theyre too "hard" its just that when you basically miss most of your combo on them for whatever reason whether its user error/spaghetti code etc etc it feels way more punishing on these mages with large ass cooldowns than the others with shorter cooldowns with the same burst

by too hard he means that the skill floor required to justify picking those champions is extremely high because they go beyond a mechanical understanding of the champion. all three of those champions rely on jungle synergy and your team knowing how to play around them. So the theory is why put in that much extra effort when we can throw some op safe or standard tried and tested pick mid and be ok.

why are you here

literally the one comment I post for the month

@@TheShagod why did i find you, why is this happening, what does it all mean

EU>WORLD

@@ChiefofPropaganda korea

@@fitmotheyap Korea hasn't done special since 2017

@@Jhawk2711 well...

is this even an arguement?

At this point you have to be delusional to think NA isn't the worst of the major regions. And i'm saying this as a major NA fan.

That’s been a widely accepted fact for years, are you new to esports?

thats been the case ever since 2017

NA was never better than EU

Low elo is low elo I tell teammates to build anti heal when we lose i see i only have morello ..

Liandrys burns % health dmg and gets stronger when the opponent is slowed etc. So ez with q +iceborn or gp ult which apllies it for the full duration is rly good. Also these champs still have abilities which scale decently with ap so the stats dont go to waste

@@dasprojekt2049 I knew about the burn but i thought their ap scaling was pretty bad.

Also liandrys pasive amplifies ALL your damage,

@@zackdgod4680 gp gets hp on orange and ez has pletny of mixed ratios on like every ability

@@zackdgod4680 gp ult actually has insane scaling, and the slow is counted as cc, so it utilizes the liandry's passive really well

5:25

Should be analysts' job, but they're all too lazy to math. all they do is look at what other regions buy and recommend that without even thinking whether those purchases are actually good and call those 'research' and call it a day.

Ideally yes, but if the coaches don't the players should at least have the thought to check why other pro players are building like this and do some research and experiments.

I mean i play lillia its literally core for me KEKW

Ok or he has Liandry's and just kills everything and no need to apply grievous to anything because it's no longer alive. Any value you get from reducing healing is nil to just doing 15% or more increased damage for the same gold cost in the overwhelming majority of situations.

@@blackkimchi5111 Or maybe he could just go both since he probably actually wouldnt one shot the entire enemy team. Also, Liandries takes about 4 seconds for its passive to amp up to 10% and its other passive only really effects tanks.

zilean ult is 3 s, morello lasts for 3s its not 100% for u to proc it.

Fleet and Bloodline is not that much healing anyway tbh. If you're ulting the cait, she should die instantly, no matter what and just buying more AP just helps more with that. Zilean ult takes just as long to go through as Grievous Wounds lasts, so unless someone with Grievous Wounds gets the last hit, it won't even apply. Volibear W and Redemption are fair points, but you could just build an executioner's on Graves to get GW for a cheaper price; he also has a lot of AoE. Sure, you might not hit 5 people to reduce the redemption value on absolutely everyone, but seeing as Redemption healing is based on the %max HP of whoever is hit by it, it is most effective on the tanks and should not be enough to save the cait, the Zilean or the Morgana, especially if Kennen just builds more AP in the form of a needlessly large rod for a lower price than the Morello's upgrade. Sure, you could say "it's not that bad", but we're talking about PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS here. They should be expected to go for the more optimal build choice every time.

For most top laners instead of bc he talks about trinity force. For most junglers that build black cleaver, he talks about lethality (graves, lee). And liandries instead of morello. Thats what he usually is mad abt.

You buy oblivion orb and move on, never complete morello its just completely useless. Also never vuy PD and MAW together like wildturtle did.

6 liandry's.

@@Steelingz completing morello isnt completely useless. LS stated that there's few scenarios where morello is better than liandry's but other than that yea, just get oblivion orb and focus on other items thereafter.

I mean, they are the pro players and they have coaches... They should know already

It's not, check out the reddit thread he mentioned

@@lsz6882 i just googled magical thinking, you right, didnt know it was a thing

3rd if ur team lacks AP, last if ur team doesn’t

If you're ahead enough that you'll just one-shot people with barrels and are against a comp where you can hit barrels consistently, don't build it. Otherwise, always go for it. His ult is already amazing for the slow alone, Liandry's also makes it a consistent source of high damage. Also, the burn applies on all abilities that deal damage, not just magic damage like a lot of people think. And since both your barrels and your ult slow, you'll get the increased burn effect most of the time.

darude

it procs on cc from what I remember

liandrys on gp makes his ult actually do some damage

GP's ult is always great utility, but usually doesn't deal enough damage. Liandry's changes. The slow means you'll always get the amplification and GP is also someone who stays in fights for long periods of time, so you'll get the full damage increase every fight. AND the burn procs on ABILITY DAMAGE. That means any damage that is dealt by an ability, no matter if it's magic, physical or true damage. To quote the wiki: "The basic rule is: all damage-dealing abilities, excluding attack effects, deal ability damage." "Attack effects are effects that trigger on a champion's basic attacks. " Basically, on-hit effects and stacking passives like Braum, Kai'Sa or Vayne W passive. So GP applies the burn with his ult, his barrels and his Q.

If you think it's too early for void but still want some pen for whatever reason now (maybe they just don't have a lot of mr yet, maybe you want to get the true dmg on squishy targets, idk), just sit on oblivion orb for the flat pen and if you don't really need healing reduction at any point, just sell it later on if you need the slot. The whole argument around morello is just that most of the times, you don't need the healing reduction, the pen is same on just oblivion orb and with the extra gold you need to finish morello, you can buy something like a large rod instead.

@@themrlace but a large rod is needless ;)

@@themrlace I think healing reduction may still be pretty useful In some occasions, nowadays most champ have sustain and items like deatdance, bloodthirst, Visage and botrk are pretty common

Void amps in power at a measly 55 mr

@@vincenzocapasso9990 none of those are enough healing to warrant GR A soraka on the other hand...

Barrel pop and your ulti apply the burn to many targets, madness passive is broken, your ulti and w scale with ability power.

Lots of AoE to apply burn to many targets (it applies on every ability that deals damage, not just magic damage), insane AP scaling on R, Barrels and R slow, so you're getting the increased burn damage, lots of extra healing with W. It allows R to be used for high damage and not just a slow, meaning you have a CONSISTENT form of damage output, incase you miss your barrels. And it also means you can pick GP in a lot of teamcomps, seeing as he brings large amounts of both damage types. Just try it as 3rd item after Triforce and Essence Reaver, with IE afterwards. You'll feel how much stronger your ult is instantly.

It's not necessarily on sett but in that game specifically. What armour do you need to shred on the enemy team? If you say ornn, if sett is auto attacking ornn for long enough to get the passive off then there is also enough time for sett to be punished anyways. Trinity gives alot better burst onto the important carries such as corki and ashe. The only thing that makes morellos good in certain situations is the healing reduction but in that case there was no where near enough healing on the enemy to justify the passive being worth the extra gold to complete the item. Oblivion orb by itself is good when the team is not buying much magic resist but the rest of the gold could be put into more worthwhile items. Liandrys has a nice passive with percentage max hp damage AND double damage on slowed and immobilised enemies. Most instances, you have alot of of cc so the cc passive will always be active in a team fight. Most of the time the percentage hp burn will affect tanks who build hp. The madness passive increases all damage so thats just good without me explaining. I hope that helps a little.

Black cleaver becomes really strong if the champion is capable of applying multiple stacks on multiple enemies reliably so that both he/her and the team can make use of the armour pen (because of this it is stupid to have multiple black cleavers on the same team or to build black cleaver if the rest of your team deals magic damage). Sett can't really do that, same with Lee Sin. Black cleaver is really good on champions like Wukong. He can easily get the stacks on multiple people with his ult and he stays in the fight long enough to make use of the fully stacked armour pen himself. Liandrys just has an insanely powerful passive. It just gives you soooo much damage, it's insane. You should get it second or first item on basically any ap champion who can reliably poke the opponents (to proc the passive over and over again).

Honestly, dont get it myself. Sett gets some dueling potential with the passive, speed, 20% cdr, health, some ad. Looks like a pretty damn decent item to me tbh.

@@srgfkct3544 But in order to use the passive plus cleaver passive, you have to auto quite a bit which is enough for the enemy to cc you and focus you. Setts role in the proplay at least is more to dive squishies and burst them. Not autoing tanks until you get cleaver passive.The speed, cdr, health and ad plus additional burst is also on trinity force. It's not that black cleaver is a bad item. Its just that in the scenario given, trinity would have been a much better buy.

@@srgfkct3544 infinitely worse than trinity on sett

No it isn't. Sett can't get the passive stacks on multiple enemies so that his team can make use of it and by the time he has the 6 stacks to deal good damage he probably already used his full combo. Rather go tri-force.

Michael Brinker fair enough I guess but he has three aoe abilities so I don’t see why he can’t get a few stacks on the whole frontline and when he ults he can shred the back line too

​@@danielmorra5011 His abilities are all one hit/one shot and besides his ult, the aoe isn't very big(Not to mention the center of his W, where it hurts most and what you want to hit people with, does True Damage so it can't apply BC's passive). If you can hit Ult+E+W+BOth Q hits on any one target... you still don't have max stacks on even 1 target. Also, W is rarely a part of Sett's combo, as you need grit build up for it to be effective so it's usually used later in a fight. So in most cases, you ult into the backline, E, then people flash/dash away (since E doesn't stun) and then you start wandering around waiting for your grit to build up with only tanks to basic attack... one hit at a time. If you're applying one stack to the other team (by ult, and usually not everyone) and maybe 3~4 on one tank, you're better off with Triforce's spell blade since it straight up does more damage to everyone. Also, Sett REALLY benefits from additional movement speed since he has no dash/gap closer, and triforce helps with that.

@@jack90054 "His abilities are all one hit/one shot..." Well the same goes for Lee Sin, and he still builds it ;)

Why do you need multiple BCs on one team though? It's not like you'll be 1v1ing people in a professional setting.

He was a pro when NA was competitive in international comps and League esports was actually exciting

probably because Lee Sin already had it and Sett's role is more to just ult and burst everyone rather than applying the BC passive, Triforce is better for him but personally i don't think BC is that bad in this game, they basically have 3 tanks if you count Thresh

Passive is wasted when you already have an engage jungler with it. In most situations, both LCS and SoloQ, one BC per team is more than enough

@Saura Cifer if you want to split you get Trinity Force. Look at Black Cleaver, the item basically tells you to team fight so you can reduce enemy's armor for your team. Black Cleaver is NOT for split. I can't even think of ANY reason to build Black Cleaver for splitting. I'm sitting here for 5 minutes trying to think of a reason to build Cleaver for splitting, and I still have no idea. Who came up with this?

Sett should NOT split in that game. Sett's R is amazing for teamfighting and Ornn can just match his split push, even if he goes BC (he just builds Warmog's, holds the wave outside of turret and if Sett tries to fight him, he probably couldn't kill him very quickly, BC or not). So instead, he should be looking to teamfight and murder the backline. And for that, triforce is obviously better. Also, Lee already had a BC and having multiple doesn't make much sense at all. If there wasn't a Trundle on the enemy team though, Lee should just be going tank. He'll never be able to kill anyone by himself late game, his scalings suck. And then you could maaaaybe consider going BC on Sett, but even then, I don't think it would be worth it.

@@kelex1298 I think that he refers to using it to be able to 1v1 the Ornn? But as my other comment says, I don't think he could kill him in a reasonable amount of time anyway lol.

The flat pen is good there is no denying that. However there is no need to upgrade from oblivion orb to Morello's unless it is super late game. The gold put into upgrading it is a huge waste. Getting an early oblivion is still a great buy, but it should only be upgraded as the 6th item or sold at that point.

@@DongusMinimus Yeah, I don't see why so many people feel the need to always upgrade items all the way. Especially when it's just inefficient. Same thing goes for people finishing Maw right away.

Double pen is still amazing, but you just don't need to finish the Morello. You literally get more value by going into a haunting guise or needlessly large rod right after sorcs and oblivion orb. guise costs just 100 more and rod is 150 cheaper. And even if your team needs grievous wounds, it should most likely be on your ADC, since executioner's calling is just less of a waste of gold. Also, the last thing you said doesn't make any sense. Why build sub-optimally if you know it's sub-optimal? Because of your teammates? If you know better, you know better, simple as that.

Jesus christ its not too late to delete your comment

@@nicholasso2508 Type that with or without cheetos stained on your fingers? You guys are like those armchair losers that criticize Lebron but would get laughed out of a ymca. IWD is a nobody now, LS is the most delusional and egotistical caster in the history of LoL.

Completing Morello immediately is just straight up worse. Finishing it later on in the game makes sense though. LS never said the item was completely useless, it just doesn't make much sense to complete it early when you could sit on oblivion orb and spend your gold better for the time being. For example, on a Liandry's, which, if you did some calculations, out performs most other options most of the time (although you could argue that LB makes poor use of it due to not being in fights for a long time, but even then, there are other options). Banshee's on LB is not terrible, but that's only a single item that you actually made a decent argument for. Also, especially when the teams are more coordinated and quicker to react, as you said, why wouldn't they be able to pop the Banshee's and just CC her anyway? Not only that, but what CC is supposed to hit her if she plays correctly? Trundle E that literally only interrupts for 0.25 seconds? Thresh Q and Ornn W are easily reactable and she shouldn't have to get into Thresh's E range. But even then, why wouldn't she buy a Zhonya's in case they try to focus her? The enemy team still deals a good amount of physical damage after all AND it could allow her to potentially waste more resources than with a Banshee's, while being more consistent, seeing as it can't just be popped. Or even just buying a QSS and going straight into more stat efficient AP items, selling the QSS for Banshee's if the game goes very long. Also, Dom was Top 50 Challenger many times as well as a pro player for 5 years, LS has coached different teams over the years, as well as discussed the issue of items with many, many different pro players that actually agree with him. Most notably, the midlaner of one of the best EU teams. Are YOU an ex-pro? Or a coach? Didn't think so. They're not actively trying to trash people, just pointing out mistakes that could easily be fixed. Do you think Lebron, or any other pro athlete, doesn't get criticism from their coach, analysts, etc? Of course they do. You don't need to be better at executing something than someone else to know how to do it better in theory.

@@danielkruger7589 The alternative to finishing Morellos is not Liandry's. The alternative to completing Morellos is Haunting Guise or another recipe item, which is usually not super gold efficient itself. Its better to have a completed Morellos that can actually shut down ADC heal than say an Oblivion Orb plus a Haunting Guise. Of course, its situational but LS especially make Morello out to be straight up worse when it simply isn't. There's a reason why actual top tier pros in LPL, LCK and LEC choose to complete Morellos fairly early. Do you actually think people like Dom and LS know more than players like Rookie, Chovy and Showmaker? Not only that but also them PLUS their coaching staff? I would rather people actually think critically and dig deeper into why it seems that all these top pros (and by top pros I don't mean has-beens or never-beens like Dom and LS, I mean real pros that have dedicated their lives to being the best LoL player in the world) are all collectively making this "mistake" in buying Morellos. Its just corrupt and simp thinking.

@@OPnoobTheDH Haunting Guides literally deals more damage after 2 seconds in a fight and gives 100 extra health 100 extra gold, while also building into Liandry's afterwards. How is that a less efficient build path?

How is that American?

@@dinfinity8741 The question shouldn't be: How is that American; Rather it should be: How is it not American.

@@dinfinity8741 americans turn everything into a "culture" or "community" lol

So just get oblivion orb because it gives both of those. No reason to upgrade.

The reason being it doesnt give as much pen as a viud staff i even believe the flat damage is comparable but the massive pen void gives equates to a lot more damage over a fight. Honestly the ruby crystal in isolation at that stage isn't as big

if you need magic pen just stick with oblivion orb, upgrading to morello won't increase the magic pen

If you don’t count the anti-healing, all your getting from upgrading Oblivion Orb to Morello is 50AP and 100HP for 1400 gold. You can buy a Needlessly large Rod for 1250 gold and that gives you 60AP. It’s not a bad item; it’s just dumb to rush it as Full Item 1 or 2 when opponent has no healing

Then what do you buy? Completing the item gives you more stats. Do you just never complete any items because it's cheaper in the moment to buy an extra Ruby crystal, when finishing the item (while more expensive) gives you multiple stats?

Its literally pro-players' JOB to be good at the game and understand what are effective builds. These are simple mistakes that most diamond players wouldn't make

@@joelee3917 you think too high of diamonds xD

This isn't a guide on how to build. This is just a "wtf how in the world are pro players this bad at building???" segment.

What do you mean? he told sett to build trinity, and he told mid to not finish morello. instead of building banshee he could build liandry cuz he gets Hp... the thing is that they consistantly build the only thing you shouldnt build on these champs and they should know not to build the items they are building. especially since they are regarded as the players with the highest skill and game knowlegde yet they seem to not know basic itemazation which is the easiest part of league of legends

Maybe you should learn how to listen to people, because they do say what the better options are...

Ah, his several years of backlogged streams, coaching content, patch notes, and other league content isnt enough? His coaching job he had? You're some random on the internet, do you have any idea who LS is xD?

He doesn't have to prove it, anyone, with a brain can SEE that he's right, hence why even a lot of EU pros make fun of NA for building like shit, also the math really isn't that complicated just do it yourself and you'll see.

he legit made a whole excel about morello vs liandrys dmg on 20+ champs?

Ls isn't " anyone" though lol

@@passion9809 Right, he's more like "noone". That being said, anyone can tell he's right, and ANYONE can prove it. This OP is on some shit lol.

he doesn't like playing soloqueue on stream anymore

I'm the opposite. I didn't like his game play, but love his podcasts

unsub then

Cringe

Many teams still lose to shopkeeper in even higher skill level regions, but the problem is less prominent there than in NA. I think KR has it a bit worse than EU though.

@@jasonli9871 LCK is almost worst than NA on the lower teams

Even LPL teams lose to shopkeeper at times. It's a pervasive issue I'm afraid...

@@ryanbarrier6460 ironically lck teams are mechanically sound enough to make up for it unlike NA

@@Daniel-qg8ub LPL is known for building Morello every single fkin game no matter what lol. They're also the ones who started the whole Renekton Nidalee thing that fails all the time in NA. The top teams in that region are obviously great tho