pro: but coach aphelios is trash without a proper team comp and you need to take enemy team comp into consideration coach: 200 years OMEGALUL I saw that he's broken on league of legends subreddit right next to feet pics

LS is literally stuck in silver. Hes trash

Flakey are u generally stupid?

Flakey youre trolling xd

It's a meme LS=literally silver LOL

@@joeyscags6139 r/woosh my g

This is factually false. Any traditional sport has undergone massive tactical changes in the last 10 years let alone 5. If you are a passing fan of a traditional sport then you will likely feel the difference but a long term fan will immediately know it. It’s the same with league. The core mechanics of the game have not changed. As an example, a fan that only watches worlds will know what’s going on. They might not know what specific champions do but that’s what commentators are for.

@@andykim4159 I would disagree with this sentiment. You can take a game like chess or soccer and the rules will never change no matter how much time passes. How the "meta" of these games change is something that evolves over time and has a natural progression. However, a game like League (or other Esports) which has direct changes to the rules (in form of patches) each month-or-so is something that requires so much hands-on knowledge that you can't catch a break. Patches and the meta-shifts that follow are so abrupt that it can pull a complete 180 at how both players and audiences view the state of a game, and what the best decisions are. If professional soccer were to be "patched" like LoL so that the ball is 1kg heavier starting from March 2021, then on November of the same year, so that stadiums would elevate corners to be like a hill, then come March 2022, so that every 3 consecutive goals allowed you to put another player in, it wouldn't change the "core of the game," (to score goals by kicking the ball in a net) but it would warp how people view the game and it might as well become a different game altogether.

So you are saying someone who never played the game can understand it better than someone who didn't play the last 10 patches ? That is bs for me. Maybe I would agree if a PROFESSIONAL traditional player would look at the game, they would understand more than a bronze player that stopped playing 2 years ago. I don't get it how someone who played basket in high school would hop in and say ''oh yeah, they should've contested the dragon letting X do that ecc..'' Sounds pretentious, even more considering all those who actually played traditional sports and can't climb the game.

@@dearatlas4222 There is a very thin and blurred line unfortunately. A challenger player can be dumb as shit and still not understand anything about the game and a plat 3 who plays 2 games per week but watches every single pro match can understand a lot more than the said challenger. I dont think you can understand the game without having actually played it, but I dont think you necessarily have to be currently playing the game on the daily to be smart and knowledgable about the game. I'm sure that if Dyrus, Qtie or some other retired pros were to watch league progames they would need time, but they would eventually understand a lot more than most people. Its a very complicated matter and most of the times it also go case by case. As I said, having played the game at some point is necessary, but actively playing is imho not 100% necessary. I also think that since figures such as capable analysts and coaches are lacking in numbers there should be some sort of training/staging process through which you can teach and form new professionals.

Code YVO While I don’t necessarily disagree with you, the viewing experience of league has been damn near identical for its entire lifespan. As much as there are meta changes and macro/micro optimizations per patch that only watchers who also play the game will understand, the average viewer sees league as “Team X killed Team Y, Yay!” And “nexus died they lose”. This is why league has remained the most popular esport in the world. It is easily digestible, viewer friendly, and anyone watching will quickly pick up how the game works. Furthermore, if there are champions in league of legends, you have players in professional sports. Messi and Ronaldo have tactical schemes built against them because they are just that good. James Harden is rewriting the foul rulebook in the NBA on an almost yearly basis. Not to mention basketball used to not even have a 3 point line. You may say it’s not a fair comparison to use champions vs athletes because there is a player behind the champion, but ultimately what is in game is the champion not the player. Just as a buffed champ will change draft prio, Lebron James will change defensive schemes. All that said, league is really not as complex of a game as fans would like to think. Just like basketball, soccer, tennis, etc. isn’t that complex of sports. There is obviously an ungodly amount of depth to any game or sport but to say it is so deep and crazy and the patches shake things up so much you need a fountain of knowledge to understand is just not true.

Well, the first years of competitive, teams didn't even have staff or coach

Esports is still a very new and foreign concept in the world, relatively speaking.

I don't know enough to give an educated answer, but in "regular" sports there still are coaches that "revolutionize" coaching even after the game's been played over 100 years. I would assume these things take time.

like astralis once did

@The Truth History for anything that is competitive has proven you wrong. But I respect your opinion

@@shaunwhelan17 the difference with others sport's is even though the rules may change you can still get a feel for the game and a game plan without playing with league you can't have a coach who dose'nt play becuse what they think the meta is only speculation.

@@nuwang2381 Some things are just unexplainable my guy. There is such a thing as agreeing with something most of the time. I'm just telling you, history has proven otherwise. This is not an important. or very interesting, topic. An important topic is: why do NA teams have such a hard time doing well in worlds? Much more interesting. I did want to reply, though, because you did in a respectful way

@@shaunwhelan17 No, you have perhaps seen it in physical competition, where you have to hype your athlete before a fight to succeed, no Go, Chess, or any card game coach can have anything of substance to say besides anything related to the game in question, and if the coach didn't play the game he's coaching, he has a COMPLETELY different understanding of what's he's trying to articulate. I never played League of Legends before, but I'm a League of Legends coach, my team loses the first game and I tell them to "Stick together when you're on dragon", my team tells me they're probably going Zac Malphite again, I look at the enemy team's draft and my draft and I say "What the fuck, we have so much damage, 2 seconds of CC shouldn't be enough to break my composition apart" Nobody in the room would start explaining to me that any form of stun on 5 people is enough to win a game, I either get kicked out for being completely incompetent, or I continue to weasel my way deeper into the org, eating for free when I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about, sabotaging an entire organization in the process.

Stas Twinkleton i think the game could theoretically be broken down into data. The game design is the formula and the champs, side, drake pattern and players are the variables. If you paid an extremely intelligent and competent person enough money (incentive) to research, observe, and experience (play) all the data points of league they could be qualified to coach players who have refined intuition but may lack the knowledge. In other words I don’t think you actually need to be good to be able to instruct others. With that being said that is an extremely unlikely circumstance so it’s understandable what Ls and dom are saying and there is truth to it, I just don’t think it can be taken to the extreme to say coaches MUST be able to reach masters+

There's things like communication skills, authority, pedagogy and whatnot to consider. It's one thing to know stuff, another thing to be able to demonstrate it yourself, and then another thing to be able to communicate what you're trying to demonstrate.

@@marvintodisco2970Every coach I have ever had in sports was good at the sport in there own time and thus knew the sport very well. It's odd to me that experience at a high level in League is not seen as important for coaches

Coaching is for those who find it hard to learn a subject but still achieve a high level. I learned music starting age 2, so i just understand all the shit. People come up with weird acronyms to teach beginners how to remember notes and tune guitars and they make sense after you explain to me but i already knew that stuff subconsciously my entire life. I woulda never thought to come up with acronyms cause my brain just gets it. On the contrary, im really bad at league but after following league educational content i could probably come up with a thousand of those tricks i couldnt with music because it took me a thousand modifications and tricks just to get out of bronze. So maybe its not only high level play experience, but also has to be someone that the skill doesn't come naturally to them and they had to put in a lot of work to try and understand it. Wayne gretzky (retired faker of hockey) was a terrible coach cause the stuff just made sense to him

@@ianonrust5766 you must not have played many sports i played three sports through highschool and some football and rugby in college several of my coaches had never played they sport they coached especially at the college level

@@marvintodisco2970 ya see but these are things you can work on. No joke OP has more credentials than some of these NA coaches already. Man he can even sit down and hold his own against one of these other coaches in terms of game knowledge. It's when these coaches are coming in with little to no foundation about the actual game. How are they getting their jobs? Are they actually coaching or just being there for moral support man?

Good point but we can maybe debate if it is because of him or the fact that he works with experienced players (im not saying he is not good but i want to mention the helpful experience of perkz etc.)

@@klazman7757 Well grabbz said himself that the players are doing the coaching and analyzing themselves as they are good enough to do that.

@wigglesza it's kinda like mixed of both, like kkoma in skt and aaron in edg both never been a successful player themselves, but most coaches are formal players. Also a lot of the analyst or assistant coaches are indeed like plat or below

No, they don't. People don't have any idea how to close game or not to int leads even in Diamond.

Well some teams don't even need a 5Head coach, because they're experienced and they kind of learn themselves in the team, but the confused NA teams really need a coach like they're talking about

Difference is this, take a random NBA coach, most likely they played at least at the college level, meaning that they were the one of the best players in the region in high school at least. In basketball, you need both basketball IQ and athleticism and skill to go along with that basketball IQ. Look at coaches in the nba, most have played at the nba level, even if they were a bench warmer in the NBA, THEY WERE STILL SKILLED ENOUGH to be in the NBA. To make the NBA, they had to be still TOP TOP 0.000001% in the world. So no comparing it to traditional sports is dead wrong.

@@jinky6657 Chill bro i didnt even make that claim. but you are also wrong about traditional sports, waht you say might be true for the nba dunno dont watch it. but when you look at boxing, or european football. most coaches never played anywere near the top. and in boxing some of the most succesfull trainers never fought period. so if you broaden your horizon a little bit...

What's with everyone forgetting Weldon's prior success lmao

I mean, its kinda like what LS said. The titles just a title. Being "strategic coach" does not mean weldon's contribution was ever intended to be strategy. Weldon's big thing was sports psychology and creating systems for improvement. He cant tell polbelter how to mid lane better, but he could (in theory) help him develop mental and physical habits that will lead to improved performance. I guess the biggest one would probably be improving systems of communication and developing efficient methods of practice. Obviously we can criticize based on results, but on paper, this didnt seem like a crazy idea to me.

@@bonzwah1 That's the thing though. As a psychological coach, Weldon is fine. HOWEVER, in an interview he specifically said he wanted to get into drafting and strategy, stating that he thought it "wasn't that hard". Well he did some drafting for CLG this season and look where it got them.

@@vevutlol5591 Weldon wasn't hired previously to be a strategical coach or a head coach. He was hired as a psychologist, which he performed well as. Him thinking he can also be a strategical coach and a draft coach is completely different and the results this split showed.

The difference is league isn't physical. You're implementing commands from a keyboard in the safety of your own home with no one watching you. I do agree masters is perhaps too high of a bar, a good portion of Diamond players understand the game but just kind of thoughtlessly waddle through things at that point.

The BlueBomber bro it wouldn’t even be close. EG’s coach Is d2 lol I saw him in Tyler1 game. These coaches aren’t as good as pro players.

Korean coaches are insane though.

I mean the pros would just body the coaches. I'd like to see a "team has to sub in their coach for one of their roles" for fun match

Thomas Otten CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEB

I have played football in college and coached in high school it makes no logical sense that you would have to literally play to be able to understand a game.

I think the point is, knowing the difference between theory and practical. It's a lot easier to look at a situation from a third person perspective and analyze what has to be done, versus making a split second decision while being in the game. You literally gave an example where you would be "qualified" to coach highschool since you've allegedly experienced what it's like to play football at the same if not higher level. Meanwhile the coaches that are being discussed in Dom's video, what if they're silver? How can someone who does not have experience playing at the level know what goes in the mind of those players? It's a lot easier to tell a player how to play, than it is to play the game itself...

@@Fidilisfool the jobs of football coaches and e-sports coaches are vastly different, as are the needs of the players.

Also sports like football doesn't alter the way you think about the game every 2 weeks via patches XD

Maybe this season football will change their ball to a square, then we will have to think about how this change will affect the flow of the game XD

Yeah I think coaches are suppose to motivate you and give feedback, form a structure within something, not to excel as a player...

But 7ckngmad is good as a coach also he is God tier at offlane role. He knows the role more than anyone else and hes great motivator too

Ceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeb

If you don’t play a lot of Football you still know how the game works, if you don’t play League, you probably don’t even know what the ability’s of the meta champs are even doing and what their power spikes are and w.e

That's an outlier.

I doubt he teaches them new strats, probably a mental support or smth

@@flamekite1679 you have just to be kidding, you can't seriously think that the job of one of the most accomplished head coaches rn is limited to that. Especially when, until mid-summer split, they had already a team psychologist, which was also really highly regarded among the LEC community. OFC he teaches and analysis strats, that's why he is constantly invited to different desks or podcast. I guess you are an NA only consumer, but this is ludicrous and so uninformed.

@@Justheory11b Could be, Guilhoto is not the only example of a successful and accomplished coach who is not high elo. Kk0ma for example, SKT1's coach during the peak of his dominance, nowadays is a gold stuck player. And there are several more examples. Mithy during most of the last season he was D4 negative win rate, that's not precisely high elo. Araneae, former pro player and Mad Lions head coach, now coaching the academy is also gold. Grabbz, G2's head coach, was also gold last season, and haven't been in diamond since season 4. These are just some examples of high-level coaches, just from the tip of my head.

@@gyhuuhyguuughgyuygyhuyhuuy1447 Theres also the thing that not many think about which is that these people dont get paid to play the game, they get paid to analyze it. Players need to keep their skill sharp so they will always be playing solo queue and have high rank, but really how many of these coachs spend time actually playing soloq? They barely play, and when they do its for fun because most of the time they are watching vods, discussing with players, reaching patch notes etc, so ofc they wont have enough time to play soloq and be high elo.

lol saying this while watching LS

challenger is a grind no matter how good you are and some people simply dont have the time for that. plus at that point they might as well play competitively thenselves. however i agree that they should be high elo

I mean, isn’t LS like Gold? Yet, his game knowledge is ridiculously high.

there are champions that require little to no mechanics to play

@@CarlosGutierrez-nq7gf Idk what rank LS is right now, but he was Masters in Korea at a point.

Game knowledge alone can carry you to plat/diamond. I can't play any of the mechanical champs like Kat or Akali but I make up for it by playing control mages and I can get diamonds/masters with builds and pathing alone.

And to LS's point, even if you have sht mechanics the knowledge you know over the game is enough to pull leads over your opponent and end the game. You can have sht mechanics, but still be able to climb to diamond off game knowledge alone.

those who have done, teach *well*

Nathan Lang those who have done will try to do again

I agree completely, BUt the saying is "Those who can't; teach."

Potentially bjerg coaching TSM in the future idk something like that

another thing is the game is ever changing via patches (nerf/buffs), new champs, new items/reworks, map changes etc.... A good coach seems invaluable but ever so hard to come by

I think a lot of the meta analysis work is done by analyst and experience in scrims. For a lot of the coaches, the reason that they should be able to play on the same level is they can understand the feeling of players better, what are the challenges of being a pro player etc. Like gaurdiola and mourinho for football, it's completely possible for a coach who has only played in a lower level to understand the gameplay side of the game but just they will suit the role of an analyst better since being a coach also needs to help the players with mental.

@@jasonwong2242 Completely agree! Jackson and Kerr were both former players that, at best, were role players. Look what they have done to basketball. I know Guardiola played at Barca for a while and learned a lot under the managers he had there, not 100% sure on Mourinho's past as a player, but they are able to understand the game at a higher level because they have played. I would say for League, my feeling is that you should at least be able to play at a high enough level to be a decent/star level player on an academy team. Otherwise, you just don't have the macro/micro skills to coach a pro level team.

Dielor is another example. I'm pretty sure he actually didn't play the game but from what I remember was a pro poker player

twitch.tv/maxwaldo

Diamond Korea is NA CHALLENGER

@@vuongnguyenhoang7822 More like NA rank 3

He was pro for some time to

Especially in Korea, a lot of pros go between D2 to Challenger. That mmr on the KR server is a different beast. If you can at least reach that, then you're probably fine as a coach in KR by their standards i imagine.

He played on a team with Ryu and Vitamin for one season in 2012, beat Na'vi and early Fnatic in tournament. Not big wins but he has been a pro.

its Freefall from Arlow

"we shouldnt say that a certain rank is a requirement to be a coach" if you truly believe this then you're saying you have no problem with an iron 4 coach.

@@ok4412 Actually 1) I'm saying the opposite. 2) possibly 1) Im saying that LS's idea that the coaches have to be able to play against the players is ridiculous. Being master or challenger is not a prerequisite for being a good coach. 2) Just because he's iron 4 doesnt mean he cant be a good coach. Now the chance that he is good is probably

@@phillipahn1655 I don't think you understand that it is literally (and I don't mean figuratively when I say literally) impossible to be an LCS coach and unintentionally be iron 4. I could play 6 tear of goddess Garen and run it down mid on spawn and I would still rank up to at least bronze. Same with plat. I don't think it's possible to be stuck in plat if you actually understand the game. I would make the requirement for coaches to be D1+

@@ok4412 I never said anything about hardstuck iron 4 players, thats just a strawman argument. Good thing nobody cares what you decide the arbitrary benchmark for what a coach should be is? So how many free throws does an NBA coach need to hit before he can be an Nba coach?

@@ok4412 what rank is/was kkoma btw?

But if you look at how he is doing things, it's the players that do the coaching and analyzing etc because he trusts their skill and knowledge.

Kkoma, Deilor are two other coaches. Renowned legends in league and neither were ever high elo players

@@vevutlol5591 Kkoma got to diamond so he was a high elo player. And these coaches weren't strategic coaches.

Iirc he is high diamond or low masters in Korea?

I don't know his current rank but I do know that he was in Diamond in Korean Solo queue awhile ago at one point. And Korean solo queue is considered the most competitive solo queue in the world. And he was supposed to coach a korean team at one point as well but I haven't followed to see how that went.

@@juicebox5139 bbq olivers bottom tier team

he is master tier on the korean server

He stops grinding every season when he hits master on Euw and Korea. usually in jungle and mid.

he's head coach with good results so obviously he's doing something that works

But unlike traditional sports where if u don't have the right físical attributes u cant play at a higher level, in e sports u don't need any special físical attributes so u can get high mmr by just having good understanding of the game

Yes, but in general it is quite problematic especially in esports

It's way different in esports where, like others before me have said, your performance is largely predicated on your understanding of the game, rather than any innate physical capability like with traditional sports. Therefore your soloq rank is generally a good indicator of your general knowledge of the game, assuming the person in question was not boosted or just abusing a certain broken strat/champ

Bill Belichick the 🐐

The whole "greatest coaches across all sports" always come with one problem: you actually need exceptional physical gifts to become a pro athlete. Simple example: If you are only 5'11'', you will likely never become an NBA player, no matter how good your gameknowledge and strategies are. Often times these guys that realize they aint good enough to reach their "Dream League" then start working on another path to reach that goal as an analyst, scout, etc. Erik Spoelstra is famous for this path. The other dark part: The German Young Wondercoaches in Soccer like Tuchel and Nagelsmann actually have the same backstory: Both were decent prospects, but then had a terrible knee injury, that basically enden their careers in their early 20s. So they became coaches. Here is the problem: Athletic abilties and injuries dont really aplly dont apply to League of Legends. Unless you literally lost a hand in an accident, you can always play the game. And your game knowledge should always carry you to Diamond, since LoL is at least 90% game knowledge and strategy. We arent talking about a mechanicly demanding fighting game based around reflexes here. At least not untill you reache at least Diamond... And yes, you should also play the game at least a couple of hours a week, so you dont lose touch with the meta and can somewhat verify, if you crafted theories actually work.

This is why you don’t have good coaches, you aren’t looking at the real skills to teach and unite a team. Have the assistant coaches be the masters and challenger players to demonstrate the combos and stuff. The head coach has got to be the thinker. Just look at pro sports, could any professional basketball coach beat Lebron James in a 1v1, no way! But he can still teach and coach him to shoot, pass, and play better.

The best teams in Dota and LPL has the unicorns. Why can't NA find them?

I always knew 7ckingMad was a unicorn.

buffs/nerfs/new champs/reworks. The game has way too much variables to not play and coach. unlike football/basketball that hasnt changed for years

@@klyve2818 yes picks and items change but macro thats what i was talking about not micro people make new plays in football even though the game hasnt changed in years and so i was talking about rotations freezing objectives and the like that wont change that much and new plays can be added to a play book just like new ones can be added to a football one

Arjun Venat me too xD

LS is masters on Korea playing FILL

i'm not a huge fan of his but he would be masters/grandmaster in na ladder no problem

That's basically how it works in G2. The players are good enough to coach each other and do the analyzing.

DEPENDS on the team, on a team like g2 thats fine cause they are already that good, but teams like dig or 100T need someone to strategize

Might as well hire cheerleaders if motivation is all it takes to win

If the same standards are applied to professional players, shouldn't it be applied to coaches as well? Professional players NEED to be Challenger solo queue just because it displays a strong foundation of mechanics and game knowledge. They can't just be picked up randomly from Diamond or Masters even if they claim to be better in pro play than solo queue, it doesn't work like that. Similarly, would you rather want a coach from Platinum or a coach who can maintain GM? Obviously you gonna want the GM coach cos he actually knows the game and can play the game. The intricacies of being a coach (like communication, building rapport, raising morale) can be figured out later because right now, players need someone whose opinions they can actually respect. Not saying that you're a bad coach if you're hardstuck Plat, but it's much harder to find a good coach if you're scouring the depths of Platinum than if you were to just look at Masters and above, because those players actually have game knowledge, know how to apply it, and are empathetic to players at that level.

that's the whole fucking point. hiring randoms to fill positions when they are utterly incompetent is a huge problem in a team dynamic

You clearly underestimate the amount of players in low master/d1. At least in euw there are several thousands of players in this range. Of course you have to limit them down to what you listed, doesn't even remotely mean that every person there can coach. But that's a lot of people.

@@acidpop97 that's fallacy. To get to Master or high Diamond, you also need mechanics good enough to be able to execute your knowledge. Like for example, you know exactly, how to close games, play the map, manage waves, or play around feed opponents, but your mechanics are on gold level. This will lead to situation where you try to make a correct choice but you simply don't have tool for it. Like, the correct play is to 1v1 a top laner and push inhi, but you misplay and get killed. If one of pros did that they would win the game but since your mechanics are terrible, u lost it. Moreover, to be a coach you don't have to be one of the best players, but you need a knowledge about the game, and know how to motivate and make the gameplan for the team. Do you really think, that someone would have time to manage the team, analyzing the previous matches, creating game plan for upcoming months, AND have time to grind to high master? Also I am sure, 99.9% of the Master+ players have no clue about coaching, or even social interactions, since all they have been ever doing is playing league...

He's not saying that coaches should be as good as the players But a coach being a gold hardstuck or something like that is bad because they're not playing the same game as high elo players. How can someone teach proplayers if they can not even get out of low elo?

How do you know that the coach is smart? If they were smart then they could get high mmr. That's the whole point.

@@skullz1 Knowing what to do and doing it are two different things.

@@skullz1 Btw I do not say coaches are always smart. I say you don't need high mmr to be a coach.

@@zzzzzzzzzz7661 My opinion is that you don't have to play in high elo to be a coach. A coach can have all the knowledge by watching the same and analyzing it. There is no need to physically play the game at all. Of course, many good coaches were players, but only because players spend a lot of time with the game. However, if someone is watching VOCs on 300% speed for the same among of time as players play the game and analysed these games. Then he should have a better understanding as a player. Most players come from a place of feelings. LS spoke about it. They don't do the mathe during the game, which item is good. They fly by instinct.