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Years ago, a friend of mine was trying to explain Joffrey to me since I hadn't seen the show or read the books, and she asked me to describe every bad boss I'd ever had. Capricious, ignorant, lazy, total lack of curiosity, beyond the reach of discipline for whatever reason, vindictive, lecherous, etc, etc. Then she said "All of that, and he's allowed to kill you in public and nobody can do anything about it."

It always floors me that grown ass adults watch a show and can't distinguish between fantasy and reality.

Joffrey is a truly awful character, but Gleeson’s portrayal of him was a gem (I’m glad to hear he’s giving acting another go; it’s not his fault people can’t distinguish fantasy from reality).

I think the dumbest thing I've heard about the character was someone in a comments section acting somewhat surprised that Jack Gleeson is actually a really nice person. How any adult could actually think the two have to be similar is so beyond me.

An interesting thing about Game of Thrones is that there's a constant theme of bitterness with many of the characters. Think of it, almost all of the main characters have a sad backstory and bitterness associated with them - including Joffrey and Ramsey. They're all representations of different outcomes of that. It wasn't shown much in the show but in the books, Joffrey's backstory is better shown. As a small boy, Joffrey had sociopathic tendencies (like Ramsey) but all he ever wanted was to have the approval of his "father", Robert. He never got it. Robert didn't like the boy. Robert wasn't just a bad king but a bad father. Joffrey is the product of his parenting and his environment. Robert hardly gave him attention and when he did, it was negative. Cersei doted on him and basically let him do whatever he wanted. So it's no surprise that when he was given that kind of power, he became what he did. He was narcissistic, sociopathic, bitter, angry and very immature. He was what he was made into. And as a child, he never had a chance to be anything else. In a way, that makes him kind of tragic as well. Almost every character is tragic in some way. Joffrey's tragedy is that of a "what if". What if Robert had shown him kindness and affection? What if Robert mentored him (as a father should) in how to be a man and proper king, on how to focus those dark impulses into noble and productive pursuits? What if Cersei hadn't doted on him so? And so on. His fate was sealed the day he was given the crown. I love the characters in this story. Each one of them is tragic in their own way, and even if they achieve victory it's bittersweet for them. There are no storybook happy endings here.

My favorite detail about Joffrey comes from his death scene in A Storm of Swords, how his final act as he's dying horribly from poison is to desperately reach out towards Tyrion, seemingly begging him for help. Though their relationship was as bitter in the books as it was in the show, to me that implies that deep down, under all the ego, Joffrey really did love his uncle, that in his last desperate moments, his last hope was that maybe Tyrion specifically was smart enough to save him somehow. It adds such a layer of depth to the character, it so fundamentally reframes so many of his interactions, that it completely changed my view of Joffrey across all 3 books he's in. It does make me sad that with show Joffrey they didn't really go with this angle.

I was sad that Jack Gleeson retired from acting after GoT on account of all the hate he got for doing such a good job, but I understood. Also, he had a whole nother career he wanted to get into. It's good to hear that he's gotten back into acting again.

Joffrey was pretty much doomed from the start. He was born without a sense of empathy and the only role models he had made a name for themselves through violence.

It's unfortunate that intense feelings on a performance (the actor's job, really) affects them. It's by no means a new thing. It famously happened with the German film M from 1931 where the actor, playing a child murderer, was driven out of the industry and couldn't find work after that. With the advent of the internet it really has become easier than ever to harass these people. Especially sad since, like you, I feel Joffrey was by far the strongest characterization in the show. Not that every character needed to be as overt, but it added a lot of dimension to the universe to put all the political manipulation on a tight rope where random temper tantrums could completely throw off everyone's plans. And he did such a great job of portraying exactly that.

Jack Gleeson did such a great job.

I didn't know he had returned to acting! That's so great to hear! He's so talented!

Jack hit a walk-off homerun on his first time at bat then promptly retired 😎

I have experienced the more villianous type of attrocities and I think that one of the biggest problems with our world is that people live (and our societies are structured) as if these types of people don’t exist. Yes people understand they exist intellectually to a certain extent. But look at the people in charge of our planet, the owners of massive amounts of wealth, owners of the giant corporations that are destroying the planet, corrupt politicians, the ones with the most power are often the most corrupt. Why is our world structured this way, why arent we taking into account how much damage those with the most desire for power can do? talk to most people who have grown up with the kind of parents i have ( those with, narcissism and psychopathic traits), as i have talked to many, and they’ll tell you that you don’t really “get it” unless you’ve experienced it. Which makes me sad, i would never wish the horrors i experienced on anyone else but I wish our world would take these people and this problem more seriously. Because it is the root of the problem with our planet thanks for listening

The hatred is no mystery. Joffrey is a spoiled brat who is incredibly weak in all areas of his life, and he somehow gets nearly everything that he wants up until he dies. Ramsay’s cruelty is paired with him being cunning and clever so even though he’s incredibly evil and one note, you get a sense that he’s built a skill set that allows him to be successful in the ways that he aims to be. Joffrey brings nothing to the table but somehow owns the table, the building that houses the table, and everyone sitting at the table. It’s infuriating

jack gleeson is a total sweetheart! i talked to him for a bit at comic con vienna and was really excited when he told me that he's working on new projects after the joffrey hate died down!

People despised Joffrey because he was a wimp. They did not despise Tywin or Ramsay because they were capable. The hate for something people fear is different from the hate for something people dislike.

Jack did such a great job as Joffrey that I legit hated him, but only on screen. I thought Jack deserved a ton of credit for being able to relay such a D-bag to the audience. He should have been in consideration for an award. The character was well acted. I would have been scared to have him as a ruler. Joffrey was tricked into killing Ned. He was still only a child. 15 is not an adult.

I think the worst about Joffrey is how the system around him is enabling him. He's the ultimate antithesis to the system the seven Kingdoms try to uphold.

Probably my favorite scene with Joffrey is the scene where he calls on Tywin with regards to the small council and about Daenerys. He’s bratty, complaining about climbing the stairs, but when you think about it, this is one of the few instances where he tries to be a good king, and Tywin immediately shuts him down. He asks about Daenerys’s dragons and has reasonable concerns about their danger that Tywin really shouldn’t have been so quick to dismiss. Tywin says that he has advisors “to counsel the king on matters on which he knows nothing.” Joffrey then expresses frustration that he hasn’t *been* counseled, which Tywin dismisses. It’s a scene that makes me realize that he was never really given a chance. Obviously, he’s a monster, but he’s a spoiled child who was a product of Cersei nurturing his worst tendencies and refusing to discipline him. She teaches him that everyone else is an enemy and is a ridiculously bad role model by pulling shit like having Sansa’s wolf killed and trying to have Arya maimed. He’s neglected by both Robert and Jaime, and so he seeks approval from whoever he can (thus leading to the downfall of Ned). Whenever he *does* try to improve, to become a good king, he’s shut down. The story of Joffrey is, when you think about it, a very tragic one.

Jack did an outstanding job potraying Joffrey, probably one of the best performances in the whole show. He genuenly made you hate him so bad, that's something only the best of the best can do, and when he finally died everybody rejoiced (it was sad to say goodbye to Jack tho), only to wish he was alive when Ramsay came so he culd kill him (it's kinda ironic how the two biggest psychos were played by absolue sweethearts). So sad some people could not separate the character form the actor and genuenly belived he was a horrible person outside the show, the poor guy even got death threats. I'm glad he found something else he liked and pursued it. What a character and what an actor. Game of Thrones would not have been the same without them.

I'm kind of surprised to hear that people didn't hate Ramsey. I certainly did. He was the new Joffrey (I think I actually thought of him that way when I got introduced to him in the books). For me, Ramsey was more hateable... but less scary. Simply because, well, he wasn't the king. And also (and this ties in a bit about what you were saying about identifying with his victims)... we mostly read of him through Sansa's POV. And she's a) a child, b) completely under his power, and c) quietly surviving against him in whatever way she can. With Ramsey, we mostly read about him through Theon's POV, and he's a) an adult, and b) while he's completely under his power, he's psychologically broken to the point where he doesn't have an identity anymore. And while I wouldn't say Theon deserved _that_ treatment, it was actually a bit gratifying to see him be humbled.

New my little thought tree video on Joffrey Baratheon!!! Huzzah!

Maybe it's my background as a fan of professional wrestling, but I find that I can go into the story enough to hate Joffrey but I can also take a step back and enjoy him as an effective character. I think you make a really good point about how the comedy of Joffrey's incompetence and short-sightedness needs a balance and the actor 'threaded the needle' very well. (I also agree with your point that the show got extra grim after the Purple Wedding and later attempts at comedy... certainly existed! yup)

Really insightful! I especially loved the part where you touched on how important Joffrey is to so many of the characters, while having a slightly different meaning and dynamic to each of them. Jack Gleeson did an incredible job playing him in the show.

How great Jack is becomes more obvious when hes interviewed like many people who play villians he seems a really sweet guy irl.

Pretty sure he’s just a perfect example of a “love to hate” character. Regardless, the actor deserves nothing but praise for his stellar performance!

He's an interesting character on a television show. He's an exhausting character in real life.

Characters that are designed for us to hate them are so important. One it gets out a lot of that basic feeling anyway, let’s you direct some negativity towards a fictional character and not hurt anyone irl (except the people that go after actors but that’s uh, that’s a whole different thing) and Two it gives you the chance to understand where hate and “evil” comes from and look at it head on in all its plain humanness while again, staying in the safe fictional world. I love hating Joffrey and I love investigating his background and wondering “could he have been a Tommen in different circumstances?”

Didn't he quit acting because he was more interested in academia rather than people hated him as a person because of the separation of fantasy and reality?

I love Joffrey, book and show. He’s so complex and heartbreakingly tragic but he doesn’t come off as such on the surface but with his upbringing, it’s really no wonder why he came off the way he did.

Lol my sisters met him in the city centre. Said he was a nice guy 😂 Joffrey was a better villain than Ramsey I feel

I love this video. Not many people would point out, that even somebody like Joffrey didn't become (and isn't) like this for no reason. Hurt people hurt people and keep getting hurt themselves as a reaction. A cycle, that leads to ever greater pain and in extreme cases, violence and sadism. Another great point: Ramsay gets much less hate, despite being much more sadistic than Joffrey.

why would you say something so controversial yet so brave? ive been saying this for years. you can pinpoint the moment the show started going down hill to when joffrey died and they decided ramsay would be his poor replacement to be the one who tortures sansa.

The one fictional character I liken most to Joffrey in GoT is Delores Umbridge in Harry Potter. Smug - check. No sympathetic backstory or story moments - check. Reminds the audience of bullies/a$$holes in their own life - check.

TV Tropes has a name for villians you respect Magnificent Bastards.

3:50 that scenery reminded me why season 1 was my favorite. It was the closest thing to my imagination ever.

Still the most iconic TV villain of all time.

Jack Gleeson did so well in this role. I truly feel he channeled the heinous but somewhat comedic undertones of the character perfectly. He's such a good sport about his character being so hated too 😅😅 it was so unfair that some people were cruel to him about the role. I've seen so many clips of him recreating his death scene with fans in the past, lol

It’s almost like the state’s monopoly on violence shouldn’t be given to a child. Who knew? 😄

Jack Gleeson is an incredibly gifted actor who gave one of the best performances of this show. I mean, this show was stacked when it came to the cast so the fact that he was memorable even to this day is really a testament to both the writing of the character and to Jack’s brilliant performance! 👏🏼👍🏼

Joffery was my favourite character too! Jack Gleason was SUCH a scene stealer I thought, which was not an easy task considering his company. Any scene hes in youre just like errrrr this fuckin guyyyy lmao. One of my favourite lines of his which I think is under rated is Hurry up! This pie is dry Gets me every time lol

I think the other part of Ned Stark's death that was so painful for the audience was that our precieved hero in this world is not getting saved last minute. The good guy is not going to prevail by simply being the good guy. I remember thinking something had to happen to save Ned because that's what stories do. The hero has to continue the story, so obviously Ned has to live, right? But he didn't. Ned was beheaded on Joffrey's orders. And I think that combined hurt and shock made everyone hate Joffrey even more

Tywin is ruthless strategic mastermind. Ramsay is sadistic, but he usually has some sort of overall goal to it, like trying to psychologically break Theon. Joffery on the other hand is incredibly petty. He's weak, impulsive, and a coward. He hurts and humiliates people on a whim for no reason than his own amusement. He is proactive and has a hair trigger. Tywin and Ramsay are men you would almost want on your side. Neither are afraid of getting their hands dirty. They get the job done. Joffery is just a vindictive little prick for no reason other than its own sake.

Joffrey was fun to despise. Ramsey wasn’t.

I read the books, so I always thought it was fitting (but not deserving) for someone who assaulted and harassed women to be neutered. I can’t remember if it appears in the show, but on Theon’s journey back home he coerces the captain’s daughter into sex, lies to her and says she’ll be his wife, then gleefully leaves her pregnant and abandoned to face the abuse and wrath of her father (the captain). No one deserves the kind of torture he survived, but after so many similar transgressions from Theon I felt that he did need some kind of karmic punishment for his misdeeds.

Tywin and Cersei are not villains to anyone who thinks about it for a moment. It is made pretty clear why Joffrey is the way he is when Robert says he "should have spent more time with him, taught him to be a man". Joffrey's political impulses are often coming from a need to be seen as what he was never taught to be but knows is expected of him: "but they are the soft hearts of women". Neglected by his "father", he was left to be raised by the women, by his mother who kept him away from all dangers, as mothers do, and as she still does before the Blackwater battle. So he never learned to fight or to gain respect from others. He likes shooting at defenceless things because it makes him feel godlike and in control. He despises women because he knows he hasn't proven himself a man. He shouts "I am the king" because he feels he isn't.

I was UPSET when he died when I was reading the book. A lot of it came from Cersei’s scream and grief, but he was such a good character on the page; I do agree I suppose it wasss time for him to go

I have never been this fast before

I love your break downs for these characters. I think a great character to analyze would be Amos Burton from the expanse

watching that Sansa was into him when he first came to Winterfell is really painful

Jack played that part to the T, great actor

Great video. Keep up the good work

Jack Gleeson was absolutely a god of acting with this role. He was so perfect, I loved him playing this. And yes, Joffrey is a perfect love-to-hate character (even though I do personally prefer Cersei in this regard), with Ramsay it is more repulsion, he just is a bit too much for me. And thematically, this is so good: How the feudal system is broken down by this little sh...omething on the throne. How every deed has consequences, even for a king, how it is not blood that makes your station... And narratively he supplies with so much satisfaction (not in the least because we all know people we'd like Tyrion to slap), so much cohesion and he ups the stakes so beautifully... while being a smug snake all the time. A thing that makes people not hate villians, is, I think, if we can admire something about him. Intelligence and brilliance is a thing you metioned, but there are so many things that get admired: courage, power (of strength or personality), even ambition or just the fact that somebody clawed himself up to the top. As soon as we have something to admire in somebody, it does get very hard to hate them. Probably a social instinct, too: we are not meant to hate somebody who is truely aweinspiring, that could really bite us in the back later on. In the books Ramsay is a lot more like Jeoffrey with people having not much of a regard for him and even his father being quick for throwing him under the bus. And maybe there is no foil for Jeoffrey, could that be a reason,too? We have Tywin again Ned, and so many people agree that Ned's just lawful-stupid and if he'd be more like Tywin, he would have survived (I strongly disagree there, both with the Doylian as well as the Watsonian hat on) and with Ramsay we have Jon and that one is so mopey, if he'd be more like Ramsay, a bit more fun and lively, he'd be more popular and less perforated. But there is nobody Jeoffrey compares to favorably. He is just the bottom of the barrel. To have around, I would have to agree, I'd rather not have tea with him, but to read about he is immensly entertaining.

I think we've all had a run in with a bratty child strong enough to actually hurt someone. So he isn't just a character, he's a reality we could all experience. That's why he's scary.

Would love to see you do one on Griffith if you ever get around to reading Berserk. I think your ability to not feel hateful towards the sort of fictional characters everyone hates (like with Joff here) might make you the perfect person to analyze him objectively, which people always kinda struggle with. Not gonna say any more on that topic here or else I will spoil the plot lol

I kinda want a whatif scenario where Ned survives and meets up with John Snow at the wall.

There may have been a time I hated Joffrey, but now I experience nothing but sheer joy just about everytime he is on the screen lol such a "good" character.

When I first watched GOT, Joffrey was instantly my favourite character. I loved to hate him! Every scene he was in was always so entertaining

Man, I remember the day after the purple wedding episode came out. As soon as I had come home from school, I put the bag down, threw a bag of popcorn in the microwave and then jumped on the couch, which I only did for this episode. I consider it as a testament to both GRRM’s writing and Jack Gleeson’s acting, because without either of them it wouldn’t be as satisfying to hate Joffrey.

as a storyteller that has amongst my formats one that's often maligned and oft underestimated-- pro wrestling-- I'd argue Joffrey is a great character BECAUSE everyone hates him. see, in pro wrestling I'm that anomaly who uses more shades of gray than most, but I have to say even in that, having notes of definitive black and white sets the tone for all else. Game of Thrones has SO many characters and SO many shades of gray that honestly, having that one guy we all agree to revile? important. and not in a way that we're necessarily afraid of or can rationalize like Ramsey. characters that you tune in sheerly because you HAVE to see him get his in some way eventually? that can be the steam engine hauling all that intricate convoluted story along where your favorite got five seconds of screen time the last three episodes and shitty things are always happening. and as I write this, you make many of my points in the video. I swear, storytelling escapes its format always. in pro wrestling, we'd call him a perfect sniveling cowardly heel!

The most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth!

A moment of sympathy I think is when he was his "father" Robert at his death bed he was definitely rattled by it and visibly saddened by it. He stormed out without saying a word to anyone

I’ve been waiting for this for years!

I feel like no one really touches on the fact he's only 13 when all this happens, and his upbringing. He gets a lot of hate, granted it's earned, but there should be so much more blame on Cersei and Robert for his upbringing. He's only 13 when Ned is beheaded, and I think it's so easy to blame Joffrey, but there should be SO much more blame on the adults around him. Like the fact an actual 13 year old child could end up beheading one of the most powerful lords in Westeros is actually insane. I think that's one aspect of ASOIAF that Martin wants us to reflect on, because most of the children in the story are messed up, and we have to think about why they are. Edit for the math: Joffrey DOB: 286, Ned Stark DOD: 299

I do not understand people who send hate to a person playing a loathsome character. Its like you get they're doing a job and its not them right? One guy on a really toxic fan board was vile about an actor playing another bad guy just based on his hate for the character - that guy was scary.

Jack Gleeson is an actual genius. So much so in fact that he stopped acting lol. What a gem of a performance we’re lucky to have forever. ❤ 👏

Id say this video had the perfect amount of waffling 10/10

I’m always sad for the actors that play incredible villains and get hate for it. (I’d love to know the psychology of THAT, the people that can’t separate one from the other.) I HATE Joffrey, lol. He’s an *excellent* character and villain, on the level of Littlefinger of sheer bastardry. *chefkiss*

Jack Gleeson will play Boris Johnson. I see it in the flames.

I hate Jofffrey the "person", but not the character. Those are pretty damn different things. Love the actor, he was brilliant! It was so frustrating that stupid people gave him hate, and it made me so sad that he quit acting...though he's seemingly started doing some jobs again. I hope he's enjoying them. He seems like a really fun, pleasant guy.

how good is Jack's acting to make everyone feel so strongly

Great video

Brilliant! thanks, dude

Petition for him to be in the next Batman movie. Let him return to where it all started.

He was such a great actor. Probably the top 3 in the shor for sure

english is not my first language so bear with me. but i would also argue that there something to be sad about joffrey leaning on a more feminine side (him not being physically strong, skinny, him caring about his clothes, the way he reacts to being slapped, etc.). these features can definitely add to some people disliking him

Joff got lucky by being killed off before things went off the rails. I often make the argument that his death episode is the last great episode of the show and the exact moment it starts to go downhill. Love me some Joff.

I’m only at 3:12, but are we forgetting Theon killed two young kids and then burn the bodies?

Pretty sure the title Best Character in the Show is Stannis’ by rights.

Fave actor from the show hands down. He made me hate Joffrey more than I loved any of the protagonists

good video

Jeffrey wears his crown tilted forward, like a baseball cap.

His acting was amazing! I do also think he had more screen time with MORE of our people we loved. Where ramsey, i think hes worse, did not have alot of screen time, did not last as long and did not see as many of our people we loved. Plus hes after Joffery, so that doesnt help. By the time ramsey came onto the scene alot of people wernt as shocked to things anymore

Joffrey had a lot of attributes worthy of hate (cruelty, stupidity, temper) but none to admire or pity. Tywin was smart, Ramsey was smart in his way, and not a coward, and we know his childhood was horrid, Cercei is pitiable for the way she was treated by Robert... Joffrey was pampered, cowardly, stupid and cruel. But there is no excuse for threatening an actor, especially if that actor is still a minor

I actually felt a void after joffrey's death. The show wasn't the same anymore.

Joffrey was the best king - a man of action, authenticity and bravado is such a rarity. Any alleged cruelty can be explained readily by the rising tensions and ensuing war. Indeed if Joffrey had marched out with the gold cloaks immediately upon becoming king he would've beat Renly and Stannis by himself and used that momentum to crush the Starks quickly - so genius! His only fault was being held back by ineffective and self serving"advisors".

Hate the character, and admire the actor. I think is absolutely stupid if people hate an actor for a role they play, it is a role they aren't like that in real life.

KING JEOFFERY THE JUST

I have to fully admit, I don't like Game of Thrones. But you can't get away from it when discussing modern fantasy. I know the basics but I just can't get into it for many reasons. But as I understand characters, as it is with heroes, it all comes down to relatability. Most of us are fortunate enough to *not* have come into contact a violent psychopath like Ramsey, but nearly all of us have dealt with an annoying brat like Joffery. When I watched Penny Dreadful, I did genuinely hate the character of Dorian Grey for good and bad reasons but that was the brilliance of the writing and the acting as Dorian was a character that made as a "love to hate" character. From the clips I've seen I think Jeffory was written that way as well, but I think the difference lies in the maturity of the characters; Jeffory will forever be an annoying child while Dorian Grey as that incubus vibe that does genuinely make my skin crawl because his cruelties are subtle, personal, and, if I'm being honest, there is a little part of me that would love to be that care-free hedonist too. And isn't that just the worst? when you have a admit that you have some sympathy for the devil. Forgive the ramble.

As both a plot device and a character, Joffrey is magnificent. I'd wager he is far more hateable than Ramsay. As psychopaths go, Ramsay at least wasn't a cowardly snivelling idiot. Jack Gleason nailed the role too.

I will never understand not being able to differentiate a character from an actor. It's weird to hate a person for doing a job. It's a craft. For your enjoyment. Poor Jack, it must've been difficult. I always wished to see how deep Joffrey's need to for acceptance from Tyrion went. Tyrion was the only one attempting to smack some sense into the little tyrant and for as much as Joffrey hated it, he kept turning his face to meet the blow, even while plotting his demise. I wonder.

I agree , Joffrey is one of my fav , he is product of incest , and he had two normal siblings , and Ned stark brought on his own death , and the Lannister stark conflict was best part of the show , and Tyrion sansa she’s snd Sanford on the throne , I love it

So shitty that the actor got so much hate for *being a good actor*

I'd argue theon is best character on the show(even if he's not personally my favorite).

but didn't Ned know about Robert Boratheons (sp) basterd kids and the incest twins? he knew some of it or am I confused?

The true villain of Ice and Fire isn't Joffrey, Cersei, Ramsay, etc. The true villain is the system that empowers the worst people and incentivized the worst behaviors.

I’ve felt visceral hatred for characters in the past, but Joffrey wasn’t one of them. He’s a character that you love to hate, but his death was horrible and not as satisfying as I thought it would be. It made me really look at myself and wonder why I was hoping for the death of this child. A horrible child that was raised to be a monster but a child nonetheless. The show makes him a little more reprehensible so there’s a bit more satisfying but I still liked watching him.

It always seemed to me that Joffrey was trying way too hard at the wrong things and then going too far when he realized there were very few limits on his behavior.

Let's be real though, if Joffrey was king, he would have never let a radical religious cult to ensnare the minds of his subjects. He wouldn't want to have his subjects be under the control and manipulation of some High Sparrow, and would have immediately arrested and killed him. I think as dumb as he is, as childish as he can be, as callous as he is towards the common citizen of his kingdom, he would not want to see someone gain more power and influence other than him. He wouldn't tolerate that. As the Sparrow wasn't family like Tywin or Tryion, those people being the only individuals within his inner circle who had the ability to speak up against him, he would not let the Sparrow grow in power.