Some questions answered: l2sfbc.com/4x4-bridle-recovery-forces/
@natashanagy11173 жыл бұрын
You are really cute Robert, and I love your expertise on these matters. This might be a bit brazen of me, but is there some way I can contact you privately? No harm in asking!
@JulietHotelFoxtrot9 күн бұрын
About 25 years ago, I took a statics and dynamics course in college. Barely passed, promptly left the engineering major and said, "Pointless knowledge I'll never use." Here I am 25 years later thinking, damn, wish I'd pay more attention at the time because this would be useful knowledge.
@markaxton20322 жыл бұрын
After watching this I got my bridle and soft shackles out and put them on the Colorado. After reacquainting myself with sine I calculated an angle of 25 degrees. Happy 😀
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Good to hear, please share :-)
@esp18183 жыл бұрын
Another great video. I love how you show the math and then back it up with the scales in the small scale setup.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I do that so it is proven to people otherwise they don't believe. Even after that there is argument. If you liked it, please share, thanks!
@leftystrat623 ай бұрын
I'm a rock climber from the 80's, and this math and examples play put the same for us when building an anchor up on a wall.
@L2SFBC3 ай бұрын
Yes, I love the way different industries and recreations can learn from each other!
@pat912510 ай бұрын
Wow!! I had no idea. I knew it wouldn't be halved but, again, you have really shed light on a tremendously important topic. Thank you
@L2SFBC10 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful! Please share!
@toyotatreehugger2 жыл бұрын
Such a great video and breakdown of Bridles. This helped me a ton in determining my front end recovery modifications-- thank you for the math and physics breakdown. We made sure to give you credit and link this on our video.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Glad it helped! I watched your video - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j76jrdlqnMXQc30.html also agree with weight. You may want to check my Shackles video and spin yours 180 degress if you can to avoid side loading.
@PatrickKQ4HBD3 жыл бұрын
And now I know why they call you Professor Pepper! Great info. Cheers from the southeastern USA.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Hmm wasn't aware that's what they called me, but thanks I guess :-)
@PatrickKQ4HBD3 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC Hey, I read it on the internet, so it must be true! 😁
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
😬😬😬😬😎
@felipefigueroa35593 ай бұрын
Extraordinary video, crystal clear, many thanks!!
@kurtburkhardt58623 ай бұрын
Good Info! I've used a bridle many times to reduce the forces on the recovery points. Never thought about how far apart they were and how they squeezed inward on the points. Will make sure to use a longer bridle to reduce the angles and forces.😢
@L2SFBC3 ай бұрын
Thanks! BTW, it's bridle not bridal.
@tonyhousden92083 жыл бұрын
Great explanation there Robert, back in the ‘70’s you would often see long bridles wrapped around Bullbars. The old Landrover Owners Club (Newcastle) had a module on this in their training courses, again back in the ‘70’s. There is also an element of “give” in a long bridle that can reduce the shock loading particularly in that off centre pull you mentioned.
@neilwhite81313 жыл бұрын
Great stuff, an often overlooked point, Is amazingi how those forces build up. Just been out an d measured my points to check my bridle lengths. Thanks again.
@tindogmedia1216 Жыл бұрын
Thank you, I was mid argument with someone who said dual straps were better than a single bridle - I won the argument and his last slice of pizza :)
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
Twin straps don't equalise the load unless it's a precisely parallel pull and the straps are the same length and in real 4x4 situations that will not be the case. If you have nothing else and with knowledge of that limitation it can work, but a single strap or rope is the way to go as shown. I hope the last slice of pizza was delivered with grace, garnished with apologies and accompanied by humble pie :-)
@TimmoMcGinn11 ай бұрын
Very useful for me as I was thinking about getting a bridle sorted. I just measured the distance between the points on my ‘23 Fortuner and they are 700 mm apart so will look for a strap about 4.1-4.5 based on your very helpful analysis
@L2SFBC11 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful! Please share :-)
@funvangroovn1763 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for putting this together! It answers questions I had and ones I didn’t even know I should have had.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful! Please share :-)
@funvangroovn1763 жыл бұрын
Looks like one of the X Lock uses is to slide on a bridle and then a soft shackle would connect it to a tow strap or winch line. It might have less friction than a sleeve sliding on the bridle. Any thoughts?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Correct and yes good point but it would need to slide so as to maximise equalisation.
@funvangroovn1763 жыл бұрын
I haven't tried it yet but it should slide fine as the rope doesn't double back on itself just the smooth metal but might become more difficult with the desired smaller angle under load. It would be interesting to try the sleeve, X lock and pulley block in wet muddy conditions. I do agree that using as little metal as possible makes for safer conditions. Plus, I'd probably be using my X Lock and pulley blocks somewhere else in the system:)
@smashedhulk84922 жыл бұрын
Quite the undersubscribed channel. Great info again.
@nigelgregory47772 жыл бұрын
Another great presentation Robert, it's nice to find someone on KZfaq that knows what they are talking about. We use bridles when recovering vehicles onto transporters and trailers to help keep the winch rope central and not pull the vehicle side ways, especially if it has a wheel missing, the maths and science of it all is really interesting, after nearly forty years of vehicle accident recovery I'm learning something new, and I'm an IVR instructor, non of this is on the syllabus. Thanks again and take care 😀 Nige.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Nige, what's an IVR instructor?
@nigelgregory47772 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC hi Robert, the IVR is the institute for vehicle recovery, and covers all aspects of recovery in a modular form, but we don't cover anything to do with off roading which is making really interesting watching, Many thanks 👍👍
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Ok interesting want to know more
@bvward3 жыл бұрын
I went to my local tack shop and got a leather bridle... Oh, wait, we're not talking horses. Seriously, excellent info on the forces encountered during a recovery.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Thanks please share 👍
@MattMingaBurns3 жыл бұрын
This is great info, nice and clearly explained. Our Ozzie Subaru group greatly appreciated it!
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Thanks I am following the thread 👍
@tdock863 жыл бұрын
The master. Regularly refer to your book. Loving the video format.
@stewartj34072 жыл бұрын
The ole rock climbers of the group know all about those angles when setting up an anchor.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Yes we can learn a lot from them!
@stevegoodwin58413 жыл бұрын
Awesome Robert. Got my 5m bridle. Recovery points 770mm apart. My angle at straight line pull point is 18 degrees and the angles at recovery points are 81 degrees. All in a perfect world of course but neve like that on the track. Doing the best I can hey.
@rickheaton3003 Жыл бұрын
I use the method of I Y T when i teach this. It also applies to your Tree Trunk protector end or anchor. It relates to the angle you make. I means Ideal Y means yes it will do. T means Terrible look for different way. It also applies to Abseil and climbing anchors.
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
Great thanks!
@AaronBrand7 ай бұрын
This is a great explanation. I’m starting to pick up some gear to carry just in case and may plans will change as a result of this video. I definitely need another 20 ft. strap. My plan was to use a tree strap as a bridle if needed, but I think for many vehicles this would be too short. Something I hadn’t considered. Thanks for sharing! (I recently purchased a ranger and, while it’s not set up for serious off-road use like yours, I enjoy seeing your truck in action! Also planning to get rollers if I ever add a winch!)
@L2SFBC7 ай бұрын
Thank you for the comment
@kenmuggli46135 ай бұрын
Thank you Robert, another outstanding video.
@adammacfie85913 жыл бұрын
I think your videos are great Robert. Thanks for taking the time to do this - l also bought your book 👍
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated please share 👍
@Georgiaguntraining6 ай бұрын
One can carry a spreader bar to absorb most of the inward forces. Even if it is not exactly the distance between recovery points, it can help a lot.
@L2SFBC6 ай бұрын
True, but I would simply prefer a longer bridle.
@Georgiaguntraining6 ай бұрын
@@L2SFBC - agreed. The less metal heavy stuff, the better.
@stuartwilson56343 жыл бұрын
Robert another no nonsense direct informative and educational vid, excellent. Thank you.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it, please share :-)
@hoppermantis7615 Жыл бұрын
I try to bridle a single snatch block. Also. I always use 3 straps to create a bridle. By doing so. It allows for angles to reduce equalization towards load sharing. Such as 2 x 30ft straps with a 10ft center strap. For those without TABS. I UTILIZE 2 polyblend quad braided lines & wrapped 4-6 times, as points on sharps edges for bridles as well. Very forgiving. Some complain overkills And not worth the prep time. But doubt can kill. If I've learned anything. The suck always creates doubt on resistance.
@tpv593 жыл бұрын
YOU, are the MAN !!!
@terrybarbie52073 жыл бұрын
Great info again - thanks Robert - checking my recovery point spread and bridle length today :-)
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Excellent let us know!
@terrybarbie52073 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC 700mm wide & 3m bridle so I'm within a reasonable tolerance.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Yep that will work!
@Aussiemanutd2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate this video, further my education for 4x4 off-roading.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Thanks please share 👍
@billdeason62127 ай бұрын
great infor for all off road guys thanks
@derekjarrett40115 ай бұрын
Absolutely brilliant - thank you.
@L2SFBC5 ай бұрын
Thanks, please share!
@samsturges3961 Жыл бұрын
What a fantastic video, well done
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
Thanks Sam please share 👍
@morgenwoanders7 ай бұрын
Thanks for this very informative and unique video.
@L2SFBC7 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@danconatser86992 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. your explanations and info were great. so with my 885mm recovery points, my 2.4m bridle is no where near to the 3.5 to 5.2m length you recommend. You have definitely educated me. Switching to using my 6m strap today. But I would be very interested in your comments (pros or cons?) of using a kinetic rope or snatch strap rather than a solid tow strap for a bridle. I have always used tow straps as a bridle myself.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
You can use a solid, the elasticity is in the kinetic side of things.
@KevinHeadlam-Tasmania2 жыл бұрын
The forces mentioned here are applicable to lifting and rigging guidelines. A spreader bar of appropriate length (and stiffness) for the vehicle recovery points and using two equal length short connecting straps would always be a better option than a single bridle. Further you failed to mention the WWL of the bridle rope being exceeded at higher angles
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Yes good points thanks Kevin
@rickss692 жыл бұрын
And introducing that spreader bar just introduced a deadly missile should anything snap...I'll pass.
@towtruckaj Жыл бұрын
@@rickss69 No reason to be afraid of your rigging so long as everything remains within the WLL and everything is in good condition.
@towtruckaj Жыл бұрын
A spreader bar probably isn't all that practical for most situations especially since it's not going to act properly if you have an angle in the pull, And an angle is when the biggest issues exist, with a straight pull a spreader bar would work but at that point, you might as well carry a longer bridle. A better option would probably be a 3:1 pull where your first snatch block is on one anchor point and the end of your wire rope or synthetic rope is hooked into the other anchor point then the angles would be reduced and your pulling force would be increased if need be, Only problem is the sideways forces on the anchor points would still be a problem if they aren't strong enough to withstand that and you need to pull off to one side. And if you are worried about one anchor taking twice as much load with the 3:1 being as one anchor would have a 2:1 on it and the other would have a 1:1 then you could add another snatch block for a 4:1 and have a 2:1 for each anchor.
@markkulepisto11592 жыл бұрын
This is brilliant! Thank you sir
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! Please share :-)
@fifiandmax3 жыл бұрын
Good episode👍
@shauncomper13043 жыл бұрын
Great video, as are everyone’ of yours I’ve watched so far. Interesting how the laws of physics can be your friend with a snatch block in a pulley system, but gang up and kick your a### with a bridle. Just went out to my truck, 93 hilux and checked mine as I only have a 2m bridle, but as my recovery points are only 600mm apart this gives an angle of a shade over 17 degrees so all good. Used an on line calculator, wonder of google!
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Yep I might make a calculator for this! Very good point re physics, love it!
@robcoles62883 жыл бұрын
If 600mm apart, and total bridle length 2m, then angle is 35 degrees.
@robcoles62883 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC Simple calculator. For 30 degrees, total bridle length is 4 times anchor spacing, and for 20 degrees, it needs to be 6 times.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant, will add to the post...should have thought of that myself!
@robcoles62883 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC Many thanks for all your helpful videos.
@jerrymyahzcat4 ай бұрын
The force should be in N (Newtons) rather than kg. You did state that kg wasn’t technically correct. On the Forester the recovery points aren’t 1100m apart - I think you need to just add a subtitle correcting the audio comment to 1100mm.
@FDM335102 жыл бұрын
My recovery points are 533mm (21in) apart, so I reckon a 8ft bridle should have me around 20 degrees? I don't have one of those fancy protractors. lol Thx, Robert. These videos are awesome!!!!!
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Mixing your units!!! Yes 8ft should do 👍
@texasliam10 ай бұрын
Wow. Great math. Thanks.
@donaldmei87972 жыл бұрын
Fantastic. A video where the maker understands trig. One other thing to remember is that a longer bridal reduces the size of the angle and reduces side loads on the recovery point. A shorter bridal will increase the lateral forces.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Exactly!
@SeppoVataja3 жыл бұрын
Question about a bridal: What is you used a snatch block at the vee of the bridal to permit the attached winch line or tow rope to move along the bridal with less friction? Seems like a good idea to me.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Yes can work but don't like the idea of more metal in the rig and the benefits are minimal. The force would still be unevenly distributed.
@natashanagy11173 жыл бұрын
If you’re going to do this to a ‘bridal’, please make sure you have her consent!😉
@kadmow3 жыл бұрын
That actually is the correct way to have a "force equaliser": rigged, it also limits bend radius to more in line with "recommendations"..... (we would need load cell data to actually see what effect it will have 5% or 30% ??...) 4x4'ers have just gotten scared of using hardware - too many people snatching off substandard towballs and unrated tow points....
@scotthallenberg35752 жыл бұрын
I would think that the metal introduced in this location (v of the bridle) would be of lessor concern (at least on the stuck vehicle side) than the benefits it would provide through less friction and more continuous load adjustment on the recovery points. Am I thinking about this correctly?
@netskunk9999 ай бұрын
Hello Robert, I understand from your video that longer bridle length is better in all cases as it will keep the angle low. I am thinking that a 7 meter rope will do the trick in the majority of instances without putting undue stress on the system. My question is, if the recovery is going to be using a snatch rope, does the bridle need to be made of snatch rope as well? I am guessing the answer is yes, but want to make certain as I put my recovery kit together.
@L2SFBC9 ай бұрын
Not so much the length, but the angle.
@westworkdesign28244 ай бұрын
@L2SFBC I realize that the video was posted 2 years ago. Very informative. I have a question on the bridle length. Is the length shown in the chart for each leg of the bridle or the entire length of both legs of the bridle? Thanks
@L2SFBC4 ай бұрын
Just make sure it's 30 degrees included angle or less.
@joezephyr3 жыл бұрын
Excellent thank you!
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Thanks please share 👍
@ericryan91893 жыл бұрын
Could you comment on the use of a loop of webbing rather than a rope in the construction of the bridle? I typically run a rated static loop (12 meter) attached to bow shackles attached to rated recovery points . I keep the loop doubled to the tow rope or strap. I like the idea of using the static loops from the lifting industry because of their versatility as tree protectors and other uses as opposed to a dedicated tow bridle.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
They work just fine too good choice.
@nealesmith18733 жыл бұрын
Good video!
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, please share :-)
@oceanscience22402 жыл бұрын
Would there be any benefit to using a recovery ring on the bridle? Comment: wish you had been my trig and geometry teacher. Your explanations are much easier to grasp using the methods you have employed would have had my attention. Thank you.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
There would be a benefit as then the equalisation would be, well, easier when the pull changes direction. But, it'd be a pretty small benefit so no real need. Appreciate the comment, please share the video!
@KahanisGoldenBytes4 ай бұрын
When by accident you discover a pot of gold ! Saved this clip for future reference as well as shared with others in an Off Roading community. @ 11.19 onwards, when the Recovery Point is 700 for a 30 degree angle it works to a minimum length of 3m. My question to this is what if I am not able to source a 3 m bridle but a shorter one say 2.5m. What would the impact be ? I admit I may have missed the answer in your clip....if you could point me to it, would be great....else, what would you recommend. Regards from India.
@L2SFBC4 ай бұрын
Consider the included angle not length
@KahanisGoldenBytes4 ай бұрын
@@L2SFBC Thank you
@WM-jy9dz3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be too concerned about the angle - e.g. if you just use the winch the angle is actually 180 degree, or close to (your anchor point - the winch - sits in the middle) and the crossbar / winch bar is - hopefully - designed that it can cope with the moment / torque caused by the pull from the middle via the winch. Now this moment / torque (force x lever where the lever is half of the winch bar width) will be always more stressful then the "clamping stress" (pressure) caused by the bridle. Saying this, the crucial points are - like it is the case for most recovery scenarios - the design of the recovery hooks / loops / lugs and how they are attached to the vehicle / crossbar / winch bar. Even when aftermarkets recovery hooks are fitted, and even if they are rated, the question is whether the way (welded, bolted, clamped), and the location, and the strength of the material they are fitted to, are fit for purpose. That is - IMHO - the most unknown parameter. And that is also the reason for me why snatching should be avoided at all times as there is no practical way to determine - especially not in a recovery situation - whether the recovery hook design is fit for purpose.
@towtruckaj Жыл бұрын
There will never be a 4x4 recovery where you have to get that far into it, All that matters is you stay within WLL for all equipment, you don't have any bridles at less than a 30-degree angle without considering the forces on it, You know the ratings and capabilities of whatever recovery points you attach to, etc. The only time you really have to get into the math and figure it out fairly precisely is when you are dealing with some very heavy shit and relatively low-rated rigging and winches compared to the load... I.E. when a 35-ton wrecker recoveries a 100,000-pound machine fully engulfed in mud. At that point, you are dealing with some relatively small rigging and winching capabilities and you really need to be precise with your math or you will break something and get people hurt. So if you are recovering your 4x4 with a rope and a bunch of tiny pullies, then maybe you need to focus on the angles and the math behind them, but with most people having 12,000-pound or close to it winches on their 4x4s it's not an issue.
@Mike-fx4jn4 ай бұрын
Nice info thanks again. I've always wondered how effective and what the purpose of using a bridle is. I think the big take away based on your summary is that the benefit is reducing the load on the points of the vehicle being recovered , not the overall load on the pulling vehicle . seems like this is best used when you're really really stuck..... I usually tell myself, the less parts being used in a recovery the better, so I don't often use this setup. ....I'm curious , what do you think of using a flat tree strap , like the green ARB you haber , as a bridle if needed ?
@L2SFBC4 ай бұрын
Yes, that can work, it would usually be strong enough and long enough.
@philg24683 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video - thankyou. Been using bridles for 20 years but had no idea the side forces on the recovery points were as great as they are. So what's the next step? Should bridles should be getting longer (say 8-10 metres) and snatch straps should be shorter (say 5 metres). Secondly, if longer bridles were being used, should they be elastic like the snatch strap? Would an elastic snatch strap make a better bridle than an inelastic equaliser strap?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
8m is gets into the law of diminishing returns for recovery points about 900mm apart. Don't need to be very elastic as the other rope can do that but a little elasticity is good to absorb loads.
@nickjennings35003 жыл бұрын
I wonder about the suitability of synthetic winch rope for use as a bridle if Kinetic recovery is employed. I understand shock loading is not good for synthetic rope. Other than that very good & informative video as ever Robert. 😀👍🇬🇧
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Nick. Shock loading isn't good for anything, but the bridle shown is used for both winching and snatching.
@chervil203 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC Thanks for your all videos, could let me know where the bridle you use can be purchased ? Cheers Dave.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
It's a 4x4 Equip Bridle. Bit short at 3m but is ok for my use.
@bobvedder24512 жыл бұрын
A load sharing attachment.
@bouncingboxer5 ай бұрын
This is interesting but are the maths correct? Taking your 170degree extreme example, the chart claims a 1,500kg force can be multiplied over 10x into a 17,145kg force. But hang on - if I attached the entire 1,500kg force to just one recovery point, at right angles (180degrees) then I would have 100% of the 1,500kg as the inward force. Not 10x that. I can't create more force than I have to start with.
@L2SFBC5 ай бұрын
Yes you can. the maths is correct. Weird, but true. Did you see the scales?
@gavinclinton-burns86742 жыл бұрын
Regarding the bridle itself, I have a tree protector strap and a snatch extension strap. The question is can I use either as a bridle.?
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
The TTS yes snatch no if it is elastic.
@mattsmith6828 Жыл бұрын
Ok, so if the goal is to make the angle of the bridal as small as possible, why don't all off road vehicles just use a single clevis mount in the center of the vehicle?
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
Various engineering reasons but also sometimes you want an offset pull
@jeffkeith6373 ай бұрын
Something is bothering me about this. If I am putting 3000 "kg" (we all know it should be Nm) into the system, how can I be getting over 3000kg out of it? I think it is actually showing that to get any movement in the desired direction with a larger included angle in the bridle the recovery force has to increase to the point it exceeds the SWL of the gear. In particular the larger lateral force on the recovery points.
@L2SFBC3 ай бұрын
Look up my 'Reader Was Wrong' video
@jeffkeith6373 ай бұрын
@@L2SFBC ah, thanks. I don't doubt the numbers, I think the explanation is incorrect. In the other video there is a force exerted through the rope from the bolt, which is added to the force exerted through the rope from the car. That force is equal to the force exerted by the car, otherwise the car would move. If there was no force from the bolt the car would fall down. Newton's Law. Try putting the scale between the bolt and a snatch block. It will read 470-500g as it did before.
@sassanlachini53832 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your measurement, testing and explanations. Very interesting. Besides the max load I am concerned about damage through asymmetric distribution of the load. How dangerous is snatching with only left or right recovery point for the ladder frame becoming a parallelogram rather than being a rectangle as it should be? I remember crunching sounds from the frame of my Jeep Wrangler JKU while snatching a bogged heavier Chevrolet Blazer out of a mudhole using only the left recovery point.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Ideally you want to spread the load, but it's hard to answer as it all depends - the force of the pull and the nature of the vehicle. Always reduce recovery load by digging etc or using ramps. However...this is more of a fear than a real problem.
@funvangroovn17610 ай бұрын
Just reviewing some videos since their premiere....if using a bridle and 2:1 pull, do you have to worry about abrasion from the winch line crossing the bridle? (I suspect the brindle sheathing would provide adequate protection.
@L2SFBC10 ай бұрын
Should be fine
@garydick60782 жыл бұрын
Very informative video - thanks! Wouldn’t it be kinder on the line to use a snatch ring at the bridle connection point and get the appropriate bend radius rather then webbing tube and rope to rope connection? Thinking of Sabre or Factor 55 shown in your snatch ring video.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Yes it would but it would make little difference in practice and introduce metal into the rig.
@garydick60782 жыл бұрын
Thanks - but If I am truly stuck, I’m likely to have a snatch block for a double pull so the metal will already be in the line. (13,000 GVW and a 16.5 winch). That said, if it makes little difference, I should look at the webbing.
@jasonh41673 жыл бұрын
Hello Robert i have a question maybe you could demonstrate the answer? How much force would be required to pull a 5,000 lb jeep stuck in mud up to frame in thick sticky mud? Is it easily posable to exceed 10,000 (no hidden logs boulders ect.) Im trying to find a commen % of suction to add to a gvr when setting up recovery gear.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Hi - I'll be doing a video on such forces in due course. The short answer is about double the vehicle's weight, so yes could exceed 10,000lb. You can reduce the force required significantly by driving the wheels during recovery. And, definitely dig out to reduce forces, and use traction ramps if you can. What you describe is about worst-case scenario for load.
@1953Fletch3 жыл бұрын
The force will go to one side of the bridle and pull the vehicle on to its side
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
...which might be what you want!
@pabichpawel3 жыл бұрын
Great video. I'm a beginner and I find your way of presenting very easy to follow. Can you recommend a place that sells 5m bridles? All I can find is 2.5/3m bridles.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Hi - have a synthetic rope maker custom-build one for you. They will need around 7-8m of rope to make a 5m rope. Use the thickest rope possible, say 18mm.
@pabichpawel3 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC thanks. Some tree protectors look like bridles and are longer, .eg. 5m. Would they be a good enough replacement?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Yes they would be
@gurpreetsoomal54082 жыл бұрын
What's the most simple way to double the line pulling force with this setup with buying additional gear, if there is method?
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
See my winching pulley videos
@stuartwilson56348 ай бұрын
Brilliant, keep it up, so informative
@peterjohn57813 жыл бұрын
Hi. Very informative as usual. Like most people my bridle is too short. Looking around hard to find longer ones. Any quality brands you could recommend?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Any decent rope supplier will be fine
@abdulla48303 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the vid. I visited the Q&A and noticed that tree protecter strap can be used, however is it ok to use snatch strap or kinetic rope as well as bridle?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Yes provided you want or deal with the elasticity.
@xmo552 Жыл бұрын
Is this also why springs and shock absorbers on a vehicle are hardly ever vertical?
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
No.
@xmo552 Жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC Doesn't the rate change if the springs are angled?
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
Kind of, but most suspension doens't move up and down exactly vertically, so therefore you don't want the shocks/springs exactly vertical either.
@warren68997 ай бұрын
From South Africa. Hi, I have a chart that indicates the force required to extract a mired vehicle. It considers depth mired / gradient / damage / ground condition / and all the inputs . Is there andigital chart / app. Showing basic rigging and force required as a guide / indication of the mechanical advantage ?
@L2SFBC7 ай бұрын
yes I have seen such apps, and have such charts. Interested to see your chart to check it against others?
@L2SFBC7 ай бұрын
yes I have seen such apps, and have such charts. Interested to see your chart to check it against others?
@allancrewdson29 күн бұрын
Brother, you lost me at 90 seconds lol 💤
@lexicase880518 күн бұрын
I'm interested to know thoughts on using a 5500kg rated winch extension as a bridle? I have a kit that included one but I have added a dyneema 25m one to my kit and have 30m of dyneema on my winch as well, so the 10m one is a bit obsolete really, but I keep it in my kit anyway just in case a recovery requires an extension but not that far. I wondered since bridles arent readily available above 4 meters, so a 10m one not only reduces the angle significantly, but also acts as a 5m winch extension still while being used as a bridle/equaliser.
@L2SFBC18 күн бұрын
Yes 10m works well 👍
@lexicase880518 күн бұрын
@L2SFBC I figured since the recovery points from roadsafe are rated to 5000kg per pair, (RPPAT-04) then a winch extension (no elasticity like kinetic straps and ropes) the 5500kg rated 10m winch extension would be pretty perfect for the job. And places like George 4x4 have them for sale at the moment for as little as $10 plus postage for a NATA tested strap. You can't really go wrong with that.
@L2SFBC17 күн бұрын
Yep!
@bobvedder24512 жыл бұрын
So basically you need a long enough bridal to get about a 30 degree angle.for the best usage.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
yes!
@stevegoodwin58413 жыл бұрын
Great stuff. What length of bridle for your Ranger there Robert?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
3m, which is the minimum I'd want for that vehicle.
@stevegoodwin58413 жыл бұрын
My recovery points are 770mm apart. I will go 5m 8T equalizer strap. About that for a 20 degrees mark of included angle in my case then. I purchased a shorter one last year I haven't used and after watching your video I am off to purchase a 5 metre 8T equaliser strap. Bloody brilliant technical information Robert.
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Pleased to help!
@liang25127 ай бұрын
Hi, is the solution to this just having much longer rope to reduce the angle? What about an equaliser bar where it won't have any inward force?
@L2SFBC7 ай бұрын
Yes longer rope better
@liang25125 ай бұрын
Does the bridle rope have to be static? Can I use a knetic rope as bridle?@@L2SFBC
@tugboat84758 ай бұрын
Can I use my tree trunk protector as an equaliser strap? My recovery bag is so heavy now. My wife will kill me if I brought another strap. Thanks!
@DesJd-go1xr11 ай бұрын
Can you kindly share the name /brand of the bridle
@L2SFBC11 ай бұрын
No longer available - however Saber make good ones now
@expert2442 жыл бұрын
Did you buy the bridle or make it?
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Bought it, but you can make them easily enough out of old winch rope, just need a length around 10m to allow for splicing length reduction.
@jamestanner91983 жыл бұрын
What about a spreader bar ?
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
That would transfer the inward forces to the bar and increase the included angle.
@christianrenteria27925 ай бұрын
can i use a tree saver strap as a bridle
@L2SFBC5 ай бұрын
Yes
@GH0ST369Ай бұрын
Can you double a bridal to reduce the stress on the recovery rope? Not tied together...
@L2SFBCАй бұрын
Double a bridle?
@GH0ST369Ай бұрын
@@L2SFBC 2 x 1/2" x 10' bridal with a 30" anchor point center to centre using a 7/8" x 30' kinetic rope attached as close to centre as possible.
@1953Fletch3 жыл бұрын
Hi Robert You have not considered what will happen if the vehicle is impeded by a rock or ledge in a rut and what happens if the vehicle is pulled on an angle
@L2SFBC3 жыл бұрын
Yes I did - I said those forces I calculated exclude shock loads and assume a central pull. But in 4x4 situations that's rarely the case.
@aleks00012 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure those shackles on the ranger are on the wrong way around, the pin should go through the recovery point not the shackle, now your pulling on the pin instead of the shackle itself.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
No, they're the right way around so they can pivot to be in line with the pull.
@aleks00012 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC I just came back from a training course and they swore this was the wrong way. I think this is a problem with the industry as a whole, you never really know if you are getting the right information (both guys over 25 years of experience and accredited trainers in Australia) The rear shackle for example that goes into the towbar made me think they were right as with that one you pull on the shackle not the pin. Also if you watch this video from rhonny dal another respected name in the industry, he shows the pins going in first, not the shackles: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gcmFd8qeuLPMh58.html&ab_channel=RonnyDahl
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Watch my 13 things shackles video and decide for yourself.
@aleks00012 жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC I will thank you. I've only been a short time a a part of the 4x4 club and I'm already sick of it. Everything is clear as mud and people are literally getting killed because of miss using equipment and ratings being badly missleading. Thanks for the reply anyway.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
Ask these guys why they say what they say. Compare it to my advice in the shackles video.
@altongehringer9858 Жыл бұрын
What happens to that D shackle connecting your bridle to the strap when one of them breaks?
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
Goes flying. So, don't break it.
@jvalentine83763 жыл бұрын
Very Interesting . I am learning new stuff . However I think you are far to brainy for the average Aussie 4x4 owner lol.
@ianmac2963 Жыл бұрын
NB - "the" not "dee"
@L2SFBC Жыл бұрын
working on it...
@ianmac2963 Жыл бұрын
@@L2SFBC Excellent ... good luck ... ... ... your videos are addictive :)
@nfarc75422 жыл бұрын
Awesome/Accurate info, but you just need a different presenter. It's so robotic that I am considering offing myself about 10 minutes into to any of these videos. It's like having that brilliant professor that just puts you to sleep.
@L2SFBC2 жыл бұрын
sorry will try better :-(
@plowestory3 жыл бұрын
Awesome - Love your explanations - Thank you for making the efforts