Just wanted to say great interview! As you might be able to tell, LS doesn't get a ton of publicity and it's common that most people end up here after trying other things that don't fit them quite well and stumbling upon LS by mere chance. Glad you took the initiative to find students and talk to them!

been slowly watchin all your bootcamp videos among a few other vids, Don. I really appreciate these because gettng this type of context and feedback in a condense considerable time window is hard outside your videos. I've got the soft plan to heavily save a nest to eventually get into a bootcamp over the next year and will be researching these bootcamps (along teaching mysellf what i can in my freetime) and you're a godsend with this aspect. Thanks!

I think after I finish my current bootcamp, while applying for jobs/building my portfolio, I may start launch school since it’s a reasonable monthly cost and I’ve heard it really fills in the bootcamp gaps.

This is the one I’ve been waiting for.

Hey, Don! Watching over a dozen of your Bootcamp reviews is what lead me to eventually research and find Launch School. I finished the Prep Work and am in the process of applying to Core Curriculum. I want to provide my two cents about this episode. The LS documentation for newcomers makes clear why Launch School students tend to think similarly and speak passionately about the program. People who take the program clearly all have a shared value that learning fundamentals to a mastery level as opposed to being shown a framework or building a portfolio page quickly. Knowing this, I feel the interview could have spend less time addressing the question of "Why are there no projects?" and more time finding out how and if LS delivers on its promise in terms of curriculum and structure. Your concerns about Capstone Acceptance, reporting numbers, and lack of projects are valid, but I feel that you would have been able to address them more succinctly had you read the free documentation prior to the interview. I am clearly biased since I agree with LS's approach to education, so take my comments with that in mind. Also, I mean these criticisms with good intentions, and I want to take the time to acknowledge how much you have helped me learn about Bootcamps. Your efforts have helped me learn a great deal about ways to approach the Programmer Education problem, and I think you overall do a great job. I hope you find my opinions helpful.

Thanks for this. Super helpful, as I’m investigating Launch School.

In order to provide healthy criticism, thorough research about the topic discussed is a requirement.

After reading about Launch School I am willing to give them a try. One thing the host is leaving out is the fact that only a small percentage of those that enroll actually continue to capstone. With such a select few who are obviously motivated and Studious, I’m not surprised at the high placement rate. However, I agree that publishing more info on their placement process would help clear up the noise about this.

I'm going to take a stab at offering more information after having been on the podcast. For the resume thing, when we're quickly judging this or that, I think we could better evaluate if we ask who is being harmed? Who is the victim? The process usually goes something like this: candidate goes through a program or creates a project. Then they build their resume. Then they get an interview. Then the employer hires them. So at this point it can go one of two ways. Either the candidate does fine and the employer is happy, or the candidate doesn't do fine and the employer is not happy. When the employer isn't happy, the victim is obviously the employer but also the hundreds of people who are building projects trying to get a job because now they will face an extra layer of skepticism from employers who read their resume. I think this is where the concern is based on. Putting information on a resume that doesn't reflect reality is going to hurt people who are looking for a job. Obviously the practice of writing your resume one way or the other can be argued about. Whether or not truth is manifested or not. But if the "crime" is committed of writing your resume in a way that's not truthful, and the candidate does well in their job, then where is the victim? Is it the employer? Is it the candidate? Is it the rest of the self-taught developers looking for a job? You could say "well just because he/she committed a crime and didn't get caught, that doesn't make it okay." Maybe, but I'm going to stick to my guns and judge the situation based on the impact, which was not negative for anyone. If anything it could have the opposite effect. The employer could have a more positive perception of self-starters. I think I touched on this next point in the video but I want to say it again. Launch School does only what it claims to do and nothing more. I'm only speaking to Core because that's the program I completed. Core isn't meant to get you a job. It's not meant to get your foot in the door. That is plainly and clearly communicated in text before you start. For what it does, which is teach mastery of the fundamentals of software engineering through web development, I think it does well. For all the good it's done for me, I'm not afraid to talk about the things I didn't like. I did once try to apply outside knowledge of a technical topic on a test. I received bad marks on that question because the response wasn't recited in the way that Launch School taught it. I was a little bit defensive about that, and it was noted by the team. I was a little disturbed but I just went along to get along. That's kind of the attitude you may have to adopt to go through successfully. Giving back answers the way that they told you to give them is the way that they know you've studied the material they gave you. So both culturally and educationally it's true you'll do best if you kind of assimilate. However I don't think their technical teaching is ever inaccurate and they explain that their opinion is one of many when appropriate. I am sad when I hear about other LS Core students that talk about the program like it's perfect and nothing could be wrong with it. Of course that's not true. Nothing is perfect and I don't think LS is either. Even before I joined, the community had been accused of being a bit insular. Maybe because the people who pay to join are biased to defend their purchase. Who knows. But if they don't greet constructive criticism with an open mind, that doesn't reflect my values of inclusion and support towards others.

Interesting discussion. I'm looking forward to the follow up conversations. I personally think there's an easier way to filter the conversation. The easiest thing to do is to just dig into one of these capstone projects. we can nitpick about many things but if it's real quality, it will speak for itself.

I appreciate how honest this school portrays itself. The truth is that it will take a long time to anywhere near "master" the skill of software development. They directly say who the program is not for. Indeed, you cannot get a job after a few months of learning to code. Training a skill should be self-paced. Why would anyone have to learn something in a specific time frame? How can you beat the price of $300 per month? Maybe this is the school everyone should go to.

Okay - I’m listening midway through and have a lot of respect for DonTheDeveloper! He is calling them out for how they listed their projects on their resume and doing a great job of critiquing the school!

Very informative, thank you!

You should think about getting this on Spotify just because I keep skipping around at work since I’m moving around with my phone my pocket 😂 Can’t justify giving KZfaq 5 $ a month so I can lock my phone and listen

The end of this interview made me really uncomfortable... Useful information though.

Thank you for the interview, just one thing to clarify, LS has absolutely nothing to do with bootcamps! its a totally different concept! you can compare it to a BS in computer science, but not a bootcamp! just like you learn the fundamentals and theory in a BS degree, without learning any framework or job ready portfolio, LS does the same! Focus on fundamentals! and its the same level! already many CS students are in the program, and their feedback is incredible! it does dive really deep into the the "how" and "why" of things to make you a better problem solver in general, and in the track you choose specifically!

Just checked Launch School’s results page. Still doesn’t seem to be validated by a 3rd party, but they do list how many people entered each cohort, how many graduated, and how many accepted job offers, average time til placed, etc. So unless they’re lying about the started/graduated numbers, their job placement really might be 95-100% 🤷🏻‍♂️

Based on Daniels linkedIn, his project is under experience. So probably the same on his resume.

Hi would learning context or whatever in JavaScript help u understand software engineering fundamentals lol. That’s a language feature… weird test structure

Hi Don, Great interview. I thought that you should have looked at the web of Launch School and learn more about the program before you ask some many unnecessary questions.

Can you do TheOdinProject?

Text based.. thats gonna be a no from me

It’s clear that Launch School has a VERY loyal following. Out of all of the educational program reviews I’ve done, I would say it has THE most loyal following I’ve ever seen. What could have just been a constructive conversation between myself and Chris turned into what appears to be a brigade of students/graduates mass upvoting praise and downvoting / dog piling on all criticism with the justification of “clarification”. Chris did apologize and mentioned it was well-intended. I do appreciate that, because what happened has the effect of suppressing any criticism, both non-constructive AND constructive. I was able to take a look at Launch School’s Slack conversation around this video. While there was constructive criticism (which I read - thank you!) there were also some petty jabs towards me and other people in the comment section. Compared to other reviews I’ve done, this was a LIGHT amount of criticism. If the culture around Launch School is this sensitive, and feels the need to dog pile on any criticism or skepticism of the program, then that makes me more skeptical of Launch School’s reputation and outcomes. Other "educational programs" have handled this much more professionally. What happened with how Launch School’s students, graduates, and staff handled this is no better than spam IMO. I’m going to think about what I want to do with some of the comments. I might take some down and leave some up, depending on what I feel like the intention was with each one. I can see that some students and staff are becoming more aware of how all of this is starting to come off for Launch School and its reputation. I'd trust your gut feeling on that one. In the mean time, I’ve reached out to Chris. I’m looking forward to having a conversation with him.

33:28, "it is a text based program". You lost me there. There are many people who find text based learning to be outdated way of learn something as complicated as progamming. Secondly, this approach to learning doesnt really work for everyone. I, for example, am visual based learner, I rely on visual and audio data to process information better. Learning to program is life long habbit. Until there programming curriculum that is self paced, and consist of fundamental principles and hand-on learning materials (building projects, and solving problems) with up to date materials bootcamps will continue to be waste of time and money.