Thanks Steve! Welcome back to the hobby!

That’s awesome, welcome to the army! Nothing more fun than getting started with a friend. My biggest issue with the warriors and grimnyr on paper are the single wounds and 4+ native save. I just feel like even at T6, it doesn’t take too much to shift them. I will definitely explore this in the analysis video so thanks for sharing your experience!

@VotannVersus40K yah, they have w1 and sv4+, but I feel at T6, the majority of attacks coming from things that cost 175 pts or less are going to be wounding on 5's or 6's. This makes you have to take less saves on them in general. If the opponent wants to fire at them with bigger guns, then those guns aren't being shot at my hearthguard, thunderkyn, or pioneers, and they get to cause more damage/score elsewhere. I also wouldn't feel bad using "take cover" or "void armor" strats on them if they did use a big gun because of the comms array. End of day, I feel if my opponent has to put more points into my unit to kill them than I put into the unit, that's a win. I also don't think I'd take more than one of this unit though. I would probably use them to just hold my home objective or a well covered NML objective if I'm feeling cheeky. I've never been a fan of the sticky objective type rules, especially when reserves are being used, so I pretend it doesn't exist. Then again, I've only just started with this army, and haven't had too many games against different opponents. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but for now I think I'm going to stick to my one grimnyr in a single unit of 10 on my home.

Ahh perfect that’s exactly it, thanks for clarifying that! So much information to process, I wish they would add a little point form summary at the top haha

Hi @anadoku, welcome to the kin! You really can't go wrong with a Combat patrol box. I have a suspicion that Hekatons will be very good post data slate and become a more prominent selection. I think 2 of everything is honestly a fantastic way to start because our range is honestly quite small. This means you'll have a solid foundation of units to choose from and can easily add an extra third of a kind if your list requires it. In terms of a good start, if you can find a christmas box still in stock I would strongly recommend purchasing that in addition to the CP. Otherwise, maybe two CPs, 2 sagitaurs, and 10x Hearthguard? This will give you a nice core to play around with while you figure out what archetype you prefer playing. Hope this helps!

Sadly, chriatmas box is now extinct in my region to my knowledge, def wouldve gotten one otherwise, thanks for the advice, ill see how things go

@@VotannVersus40K I Would say 2 combat patrols, a boarding patrol (if you can find one) and one of each vehicle, although now that I think about it you only get 5 hearthguard in a boarding patrol. I have found people selling combat patrols on eBay and marketplace. Votann is unfortunately one of the more expensive armies to build right now due to the boarding patrol and christmas box arent in print right now.

100% agree. I did not have too much time to look over everyone else's changes, but I am very happy with what we received as it could have been significantly worse. Looking forward to seeing the impact Grim Demeanor has on the table!!

@@VotannVersus40K Honestly, with that and Khals lethal hits, Plasmas will be the best choice for our 10 men brick. Then for the others, I would go with volkites, but this buff is massive for plasmas. With CSM and Aeldari getting really really big nerfs, our hard matchups are rare now. I would say, Tau with all their massive AP is really rough for vehicule heavy list. But our infantry lists manage that well.

@@NBeaver-bx4yl I'm honestly kinda tempted to run a 10 man brick with plasma + grim + khal and maybe a smaller 5man volanites + echamp in HLF. Super excited to test this out

@@VotannVersus40K Yeah its generally what I have been running, the 10 man blob is just so damn powerful. The 5 man in the hekaton are not as impactful, but give a really good presence midboard and helps protect your hekatons a lot. Been loving this

So I’ll still get my 3 up save from a lascannon shot? Or am I reading it wrong ?

Hi JB, welcome to Votann! I have a few videos showcasing different archetypes we can build towards. Unfortunately, with the new points adjustments coming out, no one really knows what will be optimal/meta for a few weeks. I would suggest going for a combat patrol first as you really can’t go wrong with that. If by some miracle you find a Christmas box, definitely grab that as well. All of that is a solid core to build out from!

@@VotannVersus40K Thank you, so much I'll do that :)

@@VotannVersus40K Okay, so I got the Combat Patrol, The Christmas Box, a second Saguitaur and one of each other units that didn't come in those two boxes. I 'll be focusing on painting, and learning core rules... then I'll go into full Votann meta and tactics... please let me know if you have any more unit recommendations! :)

@@jb_boom That's a great start! I would focus on building and painting for now and try each unit out to see what archetype you prefer

Same here :( Would have loved to see Hearthkyn Warriors come down 10 points

@@VotannVersus40K That would have cancelled the Sagitaur change too much.

@@Lykandras Quite possibly. I would have been open to grmnyr going up too to compensate for that. Definitely not the end of world, happy overall with the changes

Hey Stark, so I both agree and disagree with a couple points here. I absolutely align with you on wishing a couple of units came down in points or were buffed, namely the warriors decreasing to incentivize their use in relation to the sagitaur increasing. Warriors we’re still taken before the dataslate but they were scarce and often used simply to fill sagitaurs. I think now people will fully drift towards grimnyrs instead which is a little sad. I disagree in that half the index is bad. We’ve seen lists consistently run a good split of units so far throughout Leviathan indicating the majority of our data cards are actually quite viable, with the exception of Uthar. I will say though that good sheets don’t necessarily equate to good use. Our index lacks internal synergy and the combinations we can current run are very limited. An example of this is the grimnyr. He is poorly designed in my opinion because while he’s efficient to use in a sagitaur for objective/secondary play, he’s used because he’s comparable to taking a unit of warriors and saving points. This was clearly not the design intention behind him. I would love to see them overhaul some of our internal synergies in a way that truly let the underused units shine

I think we got off relatively well but I am so sorry for your world eaters