My takeaway was that it was an exploration of mental disfunction. Schizophrenia, codependancy, depression, dissociation, obsessive compulsion, with each character representing a mental illness or insanity. Season 3 is then about healing

"A delusion start as an egg...."

Finally some talks about legion

"What does it mean?" "Nobody knows what it means...It's an experience." Deep or dumb...Legion gave me some of the best hours of television I've ever experienced, and for that, I'm grateful.

Legion, like many of my favorite things seemed to be a fully self aware blend of deep AND dumb. Also, the music in this show was fantastic

Absurd. This show brought me to somewhere else completely. Beautiful, cinematic, absolutely amazing storyline, characters, character outfits, set design, directing. I’m so sad for those who didn’t appreciate its uniqueness. Every “show” should be as unique and beautifully handcrafted, emotionally stirring and illuminating as this one ever was

Increased amount of musical scenes in the last season indicates that the show doesn't claim to be that deep, it's just playing with interesting ideas and being hella entertaining

Legion changed the way I look at television forever. The creativity on display in this show is insane. The progression through the battle with the Time Demons through still-frame pictures, the multiple dance battles, the rap battle, the representation of time travel through the Hall of Time, the animated psychic battle in season 2, there's just so much unique stuff to appreciate and enjoy. I'm interested to see what Wisecrack has to say about it but I've already decided it's both Deep and Dumb and I fucking love it. God bless Noah Hawley.

Even when Legion has problems and narratively can be a bit of a mess, I love it for having the absolute audacity to do everything it can think of as hard as it possibly can. It actually commits to the all-out weirdness that shows like Umbrella Academy merely puppet, and if that means occasionally alienating the audience then so be it. Having the courage of convictions to make the very first episode one of the stranger and less structured specifically to warn the audience that it’s going to be VERY weird is such a rare thing in television. Unfortunately that also means it’s not remotely surprising it did poorly. When modern television is increasingly fixated not in providing an experience so good someone has to tune in but one just inoffensive enough to not tune off, a show that is completely willing to trip over its own ambitions and alienate most of the potential audience in the pursuit of the ideal audience is almost doomed to failure. I’m glad it exists as this strange unique thing. The things that would need to happen to make it a more popular shows would make it a boring one, and the show’s strongest trait is that it is never, ever boring.

Madness is the shows whole thing it’s a battle of mind, personality, identity and a shit ton of madness

Thanos was lucky david wasn't there

The way I saw Legion was an examination of David's journey through trauma. From the cause of it through to resolution. Adult David HAD to drift off into the ether, otherwise, baby David couldn't grow up to be different.

I loved this show. Season 3 was incredible. It will definitely be a cult classic.

EASILY one of my favorite lines in recent TV history: Switch: "Is that a metaphor?" Dave: "A metaphor? No, A...Mal Farouk"

In the final episode David does not 'erase' himself and Syd (as you claim at 16:02), but rather it's Switch who 'erases' them (right before she 'ascends' fully and joins her father in the 'time ocean'). Throughout season 3, Switch has been the one navigating the 'time stream' and enabling time paradoxes to occur. All the major time manipulations exact a toll on Switch because 'time' itself actively works against her, fighting (queue the time demons) to eliminate the time paradoxes and preserve timeline integrity. However, after her death as a time traveler, Switch ascends to become a physical embodiment of Time itself. She then seeks to resolve the time paradoxes created by the presence of David and the others, basically cleaning up her own mess. That's why Switch/Time is shown saying goodbye and explicitly acknowledging 'their actions had been noted' at the end, just before she erases them from the timeline. I must say I really enjoyed Legion's portrayal of time travel (the hallway!) and the idea of having Time itself personified by entities that will actively fight to correct major timeline incursions. This concept can even eliminate the classic grandfather time travel paradox with a bit of creative thinking! If we consider a pair of timelines created by a time travel event to be (quantum) entangled time realities (similar to quantum entanglement of particles), both timelines/realities could exist simultaneously, thus negating the paradox. A 'time entity' (e.g. Switch or her father) would be required to observe/influence these entangled time realities, which would result in the collapse of their entangled state to unique individual states (existing/not existing), and thus a single final timeline.

The flaw I see is you guys chose to focus on the Philosophy angle, but with an entirely Western view. What you should have done is gone with the Eastern Philosophy of Legion, cause it's basically a tale about David as Shiva from Hindu Mythology. Because Shiva is the Destroyer Of Worlds. And when you approach it from that perspective, it makes a LOT more sense.

By the way, Mr. Robot as recently as last month had an amazing series finale, so....you know...

Legion is the best show I have ever watched and it probably will remain my favorite show ever. The confusing narrative and alternate realities is what makes this show unique and a psychological treat for your mind. It gives its viewer the challenge to try to make sense of it and I have watched Legion 6 times so far and every time it hits different because of my added experience and changed perspective. This is what art is supposed to do as it does not spoon feed you the content without stimulating your creative mind but makes you imagine and feel things and this show knows how to make a superhero story painted on an artistic canvas. I loved every second of it and no other show is even near this one (at least for me). Cheers and "It's always blue".

Finally some one taking about this show, it deserves more recognition.

Legion is my favourite show I've ever watched and nobody ever talks about it! So glad to see someone finally talking about it!

I think the final speak between both Farouks is touching. It shows the evolution from leach to father that he has undergone and the love for his "son".

The entire show was a metaphor for therapy and mental illness. It became evident in the episode that dealt with Sydney growing up in the Astral plane. How did you miss this?

but is a 5/10 score not just another metaphor

Honestly, legion led me through a rough patch of my life, when the idea of change for me was full of doubt. David's last monolouge, even though simplistic, gave me somehow the power the continue living - the person u once was is a suggestion, that uselly reflects the truth, but ur future self is an almost independent entity that reflects only on itself. But more than that, the show does it with uncomparble elegance and beauty. I don't see it as metaphorical or a deep show, as it is mostly just an experiance filled to the top with emotion. An emotional ride.

There was a lot of stuff about the importance of good parenting that you seemed to have missed when looking for meaning in the show. Especially in season 3 and very directly in the episode with Syd's second life.

I don't know, but for me season three gives a very clear message about parenting, mental health and childhood psychological trauma. The way you were raised as a kid affects the way you behave as an adult. We saw it on both David and Syd's examples. Proper parenting for Syd ended up for her being strong, self-aware and independent woman. David, on the other hand, being raised by mentally unstable mother who were abandoned by her husband, constantly fails to control "The Legion": a literal embodiment of his fears, doubts, self-hatred and depression. Kinda obvious for me.

Legion is the best-underrated series of the 2010s.

It's a great show with all kind of trippy things going on. Definitely on of the most unique TV series I have ever watch for sure.

It's cool to see so many people enjoyed this show. Whenever I bring it up no one knows what I'm talking about.. such an underrated series

I feel like David was never bad they gave his girlfriend a different perspective of him, and she didn’t hesitate to kill him. They made him look like the bad guy and then They put the man who tortured him for years in a place of power and yet he didn’t break he was still trying to save everyone by changing himself.

This is the only show/movie from the series I'm going to 100% say, without a shadow of a doubt, is definitely not dumb. Is it deep? Maybe a little but it's definitely not dumb!

ngl, I thought the message was pretty dang clear. People are broken, but they dont have to be. Be kind to others, and give each other grace.

Maybe my favorite scene in all of LEGION was when a young Charles Xavier was sitting and having a drink with The Shadow King. Those two owned the show with their acting skills. "It's hard to hate someone you understand"

I haven't seen the show, but when you said "time travel" in the same context as David "Legion" Haller, I immediately jumped to the Age of Apocalypse. Legion time travels to kill Magneto, but accidentally kills his dad instead. That somehow makes Apocalypse awaken early and he steamrolls Earth's defences, conquering North America and turning it into a social Darwinist hellhole ruled by sadistic mutants.

I FULLY believed this said “Religion, is it deep or dumb?”

Speaking of godlike superpowered characters, what about an HBO's Watchmen: Deep or Dumb?

This show is so underrated

Legion was very enjoyable. I've watched it all the way through several times and wish more shows like it existed. Wisecrack was correct in their last statement, "Maybe [they're] just not getting it"

I personally think Noah Hawley as a whole is one of the most intereting newcomers to sit behind the writer and directors chair. Legion and Fargo are pretty amazing shows with each being really stylized and so well thought out.

It's not David that changes the past but rather Farouk and his father, who come to an agreement to settle on peace... It was an amazing show and it gave me such a wonderful viewing experience. It's absurd, and deep, just like life and I think that's it's real teaching. I love wisecrack but I think this time, Legion defies philosophical analysis.

I like that Farouk was able to be an interesting villain for 3 seasons in a row- I’ve never seen any other villain do that in a series except Magneto

Is it just me or is the fact that the viewpoint character in this show is schizophrenic basically just glossed over or forgotten in this video? It's pretty relevant, given how much time is spent discussing inconsistencies between reality and metaphor. Loose associations are literally one of the primary diagnostic features of the disease.

I figured it was a kind of joke on how they’d been cancelled. They only had one more season to tell a complex story and so many plot threads and jokes are devoted to telling the story as quickly as possible (hence time travel) and the only way to tell this story properly is another incarnation of Legion. Like the cult (following of the show) dissipating by demon (studio heads) speeding up time. I love the joke when Cary calls in a change in setting instead of having to show them going there or getting rescued

Micheal, from now on your introduction to these Videos shall always be "Hey Wisecrack, Micheal here." The question "where are your fingers" is optional.

Multiple personalities make it difficult to have consistent perception..especially when you are creating and perceiving reality simultaneously.

I believe the show is a depiction of what the world looks like from David's point of view. However, David has unlimited power and therefore can alter reality, so what would the world look like to someone who can change anything they want? Legion. Also I think that this is all set before his time in the comics and that is why this world is separate from them.

Finally, some love for Legion.

Legion was my favorite show of the last decade, loved every minute of it.

Legion wears its influences on its sleeves. Study a lil bit, come back with a hotter take

Our thinking of time is limited by our perception of the limits of time travel.

I hope you guys review having the at home testing service as a sponsor as it seems somewhat unethical to encourage people to not visit their doctor and use an online service instead...

But the way that show made me feel... It's a true gem

I think the final note this review ends on is the most accurate. Legion uses unstable representation to allow for a multiplicity of meanings and interpertations that can be exclusive to one another or symbiotic. It discourses with a variety of philosophical sources to enrich its figurative language while refraining from subscribing to any specific one. As such, im not sure its right to measure how "smart" the show is by evaluating its ability to articulate a specific conclusion

You guys have to look at Noah Hawley's work less as commentary and more as a thought exercise. There is no one conclusive philosophy because the goal of Legion is to open our minds a little to different ideas. It talks a little about a lot of topics: self perception, gender, religion(the relationship between a god and mortals), trauma and love. It also finds new ways of using old thought experiments like the allegory of the cave to convey contemporary ideas. Metaphor is used as a tool and not a philosophy of the show. It's definitely a show that you need to watch multiple times to get it. It's got many many layers.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t fully get the third season and it was basically Noah Hawley going, “Not everything has to make sense for it to be cool! Now enjoy your weird glitchy demons fighting one of the twins.”

The time travel logic works if you ask me, David goes back and changes the past then his "world" disappears, and from here a new world line was created. I think it's kind of like the many worlds theory but a lot more confusing.

I'm a schizophrenic and this was lovely, ostensibly.

In terms of metaphors the show is deep because EvErything is significant. Color sound everything..

One of the best shows that people didn't see. Beautifull, crazy, original, very well made fantasy sci-fi. Legion and Preacher are the best comic shows out there.

I miss this show.

I, for one, loved the musical numbers. The show had the greatest score of any TV series I've ever seen. And all the trippy, contradictory, bizarre stuff of a psychic superhero series by nature is full of BS as far as reflection of actual reality. There were so many snippets and arcs that made me think about things in ways I enjoyed. I thought they made it work and it was the most beautiful series I can think of.

I always thought the point was about the nature of choice vs nature, and about the issues of mental health, self control, and the issues of validation vs self indulgence

everyone seens to forget that Farouk tortured and killed David's sister and later manipulated sydney and the others to turn against david, (not saying that david didnt fuck up)

Endgame time travel, as explained in the movie, isn't true time travel. It works the same as it does in DBZ with Trunks. You travel to the "past" of a parallel universe and change their time, but not anything that happened in the past of your universe.

This 5/10 score was a plot twist for me, it makes no sense. I think the most important thing of the story is to show what happens when someone with a mind that can bend the rules of what is real or not, but also have to cope with mental illness caused by the trauma of having an entity just as powerful living inside his own mind, starts to gain control of his own self. The flaws that David shows in his moral character are justified by his own madness, and he becomes more powerful than ever exactly when he learns to embrace this madness (Legion) and use it combined with his powers to travel back in time to kill the thing that broke him (beyond repair, as Sydney said), he decided to destroy everything in order to fix his own self and reset his own reality. Seriously, does that sound like a 5/10 for smarts?

Legion was a surrealistic fairytale & I loved it 💖

They actually solve the Grandfather Paradox. In season 2, the one episode where we see multiple realities (multiple versions of David) there is one version of him, explaining "and that branch makes branches, and that branch makes branches...". Basically you have a origin point (the baby) from which decisions that effect the baby (his own or anybody interacting with him) lead to different outcomes in the reality -> different timeslines (the ocean). Davids story was that his origin was compromised by the shadow king, leading to the miserable state his reality is in. By changing past Farouk, making it so he wont infiltrate Davids mind, he actually IS erasing all these branches. Resetting them to a point where David can live a good and happy life. Thats why they are fading away.

Legion showed that all psychic astral plane battles are in the form of rap battles and/or dance-offs because they are about who has the bigger imagination. Also why Professor X always wins, his opponents underestimate his dance skills

I needed three attempts to like the show, after the couple first views I hate it but suddenly I developed a taste for it, is something different no doubt about it.

You can start the video at 2:21 to skip ad

16:25 Because Switch did it. She is time itself and she chose to let this time change to happen. It was her choice before... Ascending? Becoming Time? Whatever she did at the end.

Asking if Legion is deep or dumb is a bit like asking if an impressionist painting is deep or dumb. It's neither. It's impressionist. That's the whole point.

I so I wished you you gave this show a full look through. It’s so layered, and it fits in you cannon. I feel wisecrack will look back at this as a missed work of art.

this show its meant to be watched more than once to get it

5 out of 10 for smarts? Yeah, you're not getting it

I am convinced White-guy-in-baseball-hat does not watch anything he is given a script to act smart-talk over. Like, does anyone remember Future Syd from season 2? David literally uses astral-projection time-travel, and Future Syd uses a time-travel orb.

GOD I MISS WATCHING LEGION.

My favorite show being covered by on of my favorite KZfaq teams? HOLY COW!

19:37 ... is that a babble fish?! I always got very strong Douglas Adams vibes from this show

Do a Deep or Dumb on Death Stranding!

I love this video, and I agree with all you've said, however I would like to propose a simpler alternative view. Besides all the metaphors and symbolism which are obviously there for the artistic aspect of it, all we see in the show is exactly what it looks like if we were David, we are experiencing reality from the perspective of someone to whom reality is malleable, who can shape it at will and even change the rules the world itself tries to impose on him (at one point I'm pretty sure he time travels by his own power while switch was incapacitated), I think the reason everything is so confusing and weird is because we are seeing a, reasonable imo, attempt at showing what a god might see. At the end of the day David is a mutant god to whom reality is meaningless and also he is insane, so that is why all we see is so distorted, I imagine if the show was from the pov of say Syd for example it would be a lot less trippy.

5/10, very balanced, as all things should be. Deep and dumb, balanced in one madhouse of a show

I would love for them to talk about Infinity Train

I feel like Legion teaches by episode and overall has the artistic story to ponder and draw ideas/realisations from. Like all art, it doesn't tell you why it's deep, it shows you and lets you make your mind up. Honestly one of the best live action shows, on par with Doom Patrol for how weird it is

Where did thug notes go? That was the best part of this channel

I don't usually cry man, but that last episode of legion got me... it was beautiful. I think you' re wrong, I think you're a fake Jared, and maybe wisecrack is dumb and not deep. The story beautifully folds in on itself the only person who really remember anything will be Faruk and he will be better because of it. You are only focusing all of it on the last season with time travel but not taking in the full picture of the first 2 seasons.

I was so confused at first because I thought you guys were talking about the film called Legion, the one where the angel comes down to defend a diner from demons, and I wasn't sure how anyone could even remember the film, let alone consider it deep.

Great episode. I love the show guys. Please don't ever stop.

5/10. Barely addresses David's growth or his desire to feel love. Eh.

Yes! I've been waiting for this one.

David is a broken person and in order to change you have to eradicate or break what once was. So David and Farouk both had to let go of what happened in the past in order to forge a new path they aren’t sure if their destined to repeat their history they just have to accept what happens when it happens or play the parts their written and hope that we react differently in the past because we only know ourselves or we can only control ourselves. Throughout the entire show The setting has been chaotic and undefinable but the only somewhat concrete thing was the characters so you can only hope that these characters don’t succumb to their chaotic undefinable reality. Just like how David always hoped that he wasn’t the monster everyone kept telling him he is but eventually became that monster (which came first is debatable) and succumbed or was broken by the reality that was imposed on him now that he realizes that he has to gather himself into something new without holding on to his past.

I loved when Oliver the wizard guy rap battles the big bad wolf and wins with verse poetry

Season 1 was cool, 2 was interesting to extent, 3 was weird. Season 1 was cool because you dont know if its real or not

I've been waiting for this vid

I finally finished the show last night, and the idea that's been rattling around my brain since is that the whole show is an artistic exploration of mental illness; it's causes (abandonment, generational trauma, etc.), healthy ways to coping with it, and so on. But maybe that's just me projecting... I'm still thinking it through.

Legion is both the chicken and the egg in this show. To make it more confusing or less he is his literal alpha and omega, but without thinking of himself as god. No the Shadow King alludes to this over and over, but we dismiss this because the show is about David. But who is a person than their own god? David shows this time and time again as he constantly reshapes his reality. Of course that is rethought of as his madness, schizophrenia, which constantly re-imagines the world around him and calls everything into question. I've heard it said before that in the beginning there was god and then he went mad and imagined all of reality. Legion is this almost literally put into a story..... A man with ultimate power... a man never sure what is or isn't happening... A man constantly searching for a connection with the one person he can never touch... Legion is as deep as your willing to dive but as shallow as you feel safe with. And that is likely the truth of the show when all is said and done.

Legion is the best Marvel show or movie ever made. There, I said it. You know it to be true. Noah Hawley is a great showrunner.

Oliver is one of my favorite characters on that show.

It took several times coming back to watch the first episode before I was able to get into Legion, but holy shit am I glad I kept watching.

I think the time travel "paradox" you point out is possible to square: the events we saw happened, and changing the past closed a loop. Kind of like the collapse of the tangent universe in Donnie Darko. I still enjoyed it and think it's about half deep too, but a lot of writing choices confuse characters' motivations and take away from any meaningful thesis about personal growth and change. For example: -David (with future Syd) and Sydney (eg, with Farouk as Melanie) are really gullible and don't ask critical questions about why they should reverse their goals and betray their friends. The whole future Syd plotline is weird in retrospect, including how much info she withholds: --Unclear why future Syd would even think Farouk could help her if he died before David got fixated on time traveling. --Also unclear and hardly credible why David, after killing Farouk, without being betrayed by Syd and Div 3, would get so unhinged and obsessed with time traveling to undo his trauma that he risks destroying the world. (The characters' odd determinism, partly due to Farouk's manipulation which the characters never address, towards David becoming the villain makes the show seem to suggest that people usually can't make positive personal changes, even with empathetic support, especially if they're "CrAzY"). -Farouk goes from clearly evil and sadistic in seasons 1 and 2 (killing Amy and manipulating Syd and Div 3 to destroy David), to suddenly just wanting to peacefully coexist with Charles & David in season 3, without much explanation. -The show portrays as justified Melanie and Syd's reactions, to their men being kidnapped, of feeling deeply abandoned, angry, and bitter towards them. Until magical plot devices change their feelings. Not supportive of the idea that people can work to heal and improve themselves (other than by time travel or getting to live an extra life on the astral plane). -Lenny is a great vehicle for fun acting from Aubrey Plaza but most of what she does has no internal logic or character development, including killing herself. Logical issues with the time demons also undercut some of the impact the show could have: -Future Syd kidnaps David because he couldn't stop time demons, but he is also able to explode and scare them off pretty easily? -The time demons are well-trained guardians of the timestream, but also seem to love (jump)scaring humans and can accidentally destroy the world? Thanks!