218 grams for people in Murica it's equivalent for about 3 yards :D Nice burn

Bruce you are king of reviewers! You make the hobby fun and informative! Jumper t16 and nirvana transmitter moved the 18650 now I see why! Thanks mate!

So happy to see a direct comparison. I love you Bruce! Will be jumping on that Patreon as soon as I can!

I like where this is going. Staying tuned for more. Thanks.

Really excited to see how your testing turns out.

"SwellPro," probably not the best name someone came up with for a LiPo brand-name...lol.

Can't wait to see the results Bruce, this looks interesting.

Totally looking forward to a comprehensive comparison.. Thanks!!

Very interesting. Im excited to see you compare the two

I have been wondering about running them in parallel config, so looking forward to your next video.

Great information. This could be fun to experiment with. Thanks for making the video!

Interesting video on these two battery types. Thanks for sharing.

Excellent video. In one short I got all my answers. Thanks a lot.

Great information. Thanks for the breakdown. I totally forgot about "Lipo" batteries. A great way to go for an endurance FPV plane.

Nice topic! I'm very interested to watch your prep and tests.

love the grams to yards conversion!!!

Fantastic video. You really know your stuff.

Hi Bruce, Something I have also been testing recently. My application is long range quadcopters. Amp draw is very low, 10-15A. I use Sony VTC6 30A 3120 cells. I did some back to back testing with an only 5200 multistar vs a 4s2p ‘6240’mah pack. Running down to 80% discharge. I found the most interesting and very important fact is that although the liion has more capacity per gram, as they run to a lower voltage, their mid voltage is much lower than a lipo, there for I found the nearly identical weight packs, that more amps were used from the liion to keep the craft in there air. I was getting 20+ min flight times from both, however significantly more cumulative distance with the lower capacity lipo. I have found that the liion gets hot in flight, and their capacity drops with say 10A vs the lipo that will delivery their 80% discharge with much higher volts at the end. I also tried a 6s1p 3120 liion. Vs a newer turnigy 5200 4s vs the multistar 4s 5200This is where the test results changed a lot as realised the multistar was very tired, max cumulatively was 20km to a 80% in 22 mins(but voltage dropped off) The turnigy was doing 20km in 18 mins to 80% & still lots of volts. The 6s max cumulatively was 16km to a complete discharge where it drops! From now I’m only using lipos & the liion remains fantastic field charging batts

amazing overview, fun to watch. love the application story of rc flight plane

These LG HG2 batteries are quite good. I used them recently and my flight duration is doubled compared to same weight LIPO. And I bench tested the discharge current also. These batteries hold the voltage even if running up to 10A for about 20-30 seconds, which is good for take off. And if you cruise at 4-5Amps, the batteries will be very happy to run for a very long duration. I hope very soon we should be getting professionally built Li-ion packs. DIY is a fun too! Hats off for the video.

Found this information useful. Thanks!

Thanks kindly for the Refresh on the info😎 🔥👌👊

Love this! Battery build video plz.

equivalent to 3 yards, Brilliant Bruce (hit those no metric "fools" hard).. I used to fly on A123 cells, they packed a punch (when lipos only had 2C change capability, they were amazing fast charge)

Hope you are posting a battery build video 👍

Very interested in your battery making videos it would be awesome to see you make some more!

As fellow kiwi it is weird to hear a kiwi accent on one of these videos keep it up mate you're doing awesome!

Nice presentation.

We have 4S 8800mA Li-Po packs and 4S 15000mA Li-Ion Packs. They weigh very close to one another. In our survey fixed wing, (when the Li-Po's were still good) they gave us around 35min with the whole setup running. With the Li-Ions, we get around 55min-1hr flight time. The only issue is because our model is heavy, on warm days with no wind, the Li-Ions tend to not give enough power for thrust for take-offs. We also use a catapult system to get it in the air, as it's a pusher and got a big prop.

Omg 😂 equivalent of 3 yards!!! 🤣🤣🤣 You made my day!

Great overview - thanks! Any update on using this in a long range quad?

I can hardly wait for the video with the flight time of ZOHD Talon GT Rebel :=)

So I have to say I'm using 18650s in my vape every day and my Fpv Glider got a 6000mah pack made from LG Hg2 in 3s2p config. It's really great for lower current applications that need long runtimes

Would it be possible to mix the batteries in the pack with an additional control circuit. i.e when running at low current draw use the li-ion, but when current draw is high switch to lipo for a burst?

Perfect timing! I have a VTOL and have seen that Foxtech has a battery swap board. Use a small Iipo for vertical take off and landing and switch to li ion for forward flight. Only problem is unless I want to spend a ton of money I'll have to build the 6S 12000mah battery. Show us the battery build!

Thanks!

Ur explanation is so good I understand it now 😂

Good for long duration flying for sure not for general RC flying use and can't be charged as fast. Lifepo4 a123 cells used to be good for fast charging and high drain but heavy for same capacity. Lipo is unfortunately still the best option generally but I can't wait to see the back of them for safely reasons.

Those HG2's are a great choice. I've got loads originally meant for vaporizers, but damn if they don't put out the current!

sir, if you dont show yourself and just speak, everyone will assume you are a young lad, very energetic.

The biggest advantage of the LiPo batteries is that they can be cycled a lot more times than Li Ion batteries...

Li-Ion tend to be used in low-impact environments, as the electrolyte is more liquid than gel (and also why the stronger casing). Lithium is highly reactive (read combustable) and a case breach is likely catastrophic to a model. Should be great for a cruise wing type model as the discharge rating is usually not as high as Li-Po, but for a raw power machine (like a quad or a heli), Li-ion would not be ideal. Interested to see how this turns out.

You'd want a low dropout BEC using li-ion 2S, but if the label current rating on those cells is anywhere close accurate, those look like the way to go for an endurance model. I was looking at a 2S pack and 10A motor controller for a sub-250g model.

A couple years back I built a camera quad that I used 18650 cells in. It was purely as an experiment to see if it would work. I built it to only sip power, but worked out that at full throttle it might be a little too close to the amp limit for my liking with 3S2P (Like Li-Po's, The easier a time you give them, The more cycles you get before they're scrap), So went with 3S3P instaid. As I also vape, and already have a few 4 cell Li-Ion chargers on hand, I decided not to solder up a bloody great pack, But got some battery holders instead. I'd built the quad to take 4S so I used three 4 cell holders and wired each to hold either 4 cells in series, Or 3 cells and a dummy "Pass through" cell. It flew pretty well on 3S so I never actually got around to trying it on 4s in the end. Flight times were......... Longer than I could concentrate on flying in one stretch ! But I estimated it would be somewhere around 25 minutes if I wasn't pushing it too hard. In the end, for convenience I converting it to run with the stack of 5000 3s Li-Po packs I bought for a larger folding Y6 I built as its replacment, Then not long after that, as it was now surplus to requirements a friend bought it off me. As an experiment it was pretty good, But at around £60 for the 9 cells it was cheaper to just use budget Li-Po's as it didn't need a high C pack.

i'm in the process of building David Windestal's long range tricopter, which people claim can get a 40 minute flight off a 5200 3s, and up to an hour if you stack two batteries together. i'm really curious to try on this a 3s 6 battery 18650 to see what crazy flight times are possible

I had not thought about those battery’s

I've been using the Sony VTC6's (4s2p) in my 7" long range quad with great results, they will deliver 60A+ if you need it but I mostly cruise around at about 10-15A for 20+min flights. Be careful where you get then though, plenty of dodgy sellers out there..

Thank you Bruce. I am interested too in lion batteries for long distance quads. Have you tried lion batteries that are smaller than 18650, for example 16340 or 18350 or 18500? Thanks!

I purchased a whole slew of Westinghouse 18650 cells from Wallmart a couple of years ago for $1 each. They are rated at 2,000 mAh with no C rating. They work fine in my Mini Talon as a 3p4s pack. Better yet are the 26650 LiitoKala Li ion batteries, rated at 3500 mAh with a C rating of 20 Amps. I paid $4/each and found their capacity to be 4000 mAh. I have a spot welder, but found that soldering them into packs does not hurt the battery and is much safer in a crash because spot welds have a tendency to come loose in a crash and might start a fire.

I'm currently studying these batteries myself. I have about 25-30 Eneloop AAA's and AA batteries, they are the best. I've had those rechargeable bats for 7years and only 1 shorted cell. Bought all other types, Duracell and powerex batteries and Duracell beats the powerex. I have 1 powerex left out of about 8 AA. Weight is a factor but I've found the heavier they are is better but they short out early also.

Been using 18650 and 21700/20700 batteries on quads for the last 12 months and will never go back to foil cells. The Sanyo UR18650 range (now owned by Panasonic) are a good cell that I mainly use and can output 30A constant and cost just £2.50 each!

please do more detailed measurements on lipo vs li ion.

I use exactly the same Li-Ion batteries for my foam 950gr. plane .In fact yesterday I just made one 4s pack.They work great and if you made 3s2p the current draw will be 40a and 6000 mah capacity.

Thx for sharing! 2 questions : in your experience: whats a save margin to fly with for lipo and lions ? atm i stop my lipos at 3.6 but at home they have 3.8…so i guess 3.4 under load would be okay ? or even less ? Thanks in advance

What about the charge, discharge cycles between the two types? I think li-ion can endure many more cycles.

I just saw this and can't find the follow-up video you were mentioning at the end. Did you post a video showing a comparison of how the battery techs/types performed?

dumb question but can you use these cells with any esc that is meant for a Normal Lipo pack as Long as to use the correct voltage.?

Hello. I’m trying to decide what type of battery pack would provide the longest life at the smallest size between 2 to 6 continuous amps. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Are there any chemical constraints for lithium-ion unable to provide the same or better current discharge as lipo? (on similar weights proportion to the ones demonstrated)

Had a play a while ago with 18650 and a 4inch. Went ok.. couldnt really punch it. 5 inch... no chance. But 3 inch is looking like a sweet spot for a high capacity li ion 4 - 6s packs. I'll be doing this soon. Waiting on bits. :)

Samsung 20700 come in at 69g: 3000mah, 30amp continuous! 🤯 Really tempted to do a 2s, low kv, Mini long range Tricopter in future. 😆 Small body, long arms, low kv, big props, sounds like a long range dream. 😁

Hi nice video. I am building a surveillance drone so endurance is very important (flight time) but the 4 motors needs to lift 2.4kg so do you thing it is too much for li-ion batteries? Thank you

Grams to Yards conversion. You got sense of humor.

Bruce can we reset the LV cutoff to actually get most of the juice from lion cells ?

Hi Bruce I'm in NZ and wondering were you source the H2s? Hope you're doing well keep it up.

Hi Sr, nice video, thanks for the tips. I have a question, which model are you using to get those 20 min flight ? and what motor/battery/esc do you use? Thanks in advance!!

I am looking for a good and comprehensive kit for battery connectors and wiring. I have been looking at building a comprehensive kit but was hoping to find one mostly if not all the way put together. If you do not know of one, do you have a list for putting a kit together or maybe you might think about doing a video on the topic? Thanks.

yes making endurance packs with 18650's is extremely popular. I used Sony cells in a 3s2p for 60000 mah only slightly heavier than my cnhl 3s 2200. Ive gone half an hour on my AR Wing and land from boredom usually . Spent like $25 in supplies

hello,which batteries do you think would be better in jump starters for auto's?

You did a Swell job explaining that, but there is no way i'd buy a SWELL battery.

Hi Bruce are you going to take us through what we need to solder these batteries and where to find the bits ? and the soldering it's self.. ?

I use a 4s2p lithium ion pack on a bix3 and I don't even know how long it'll last because it last longer than I do. I think that's the best application for it. Long range fpv cruising.

Hi Bruce, just wondering if cell phone batteries can be used for light weight models?

Single motor rc air craft are fantastic for lion batteries with very long endurance flights in mind even just some fun lesure flying. There are other electronics you could throw in like a bost circuit if you must keep the volts around 11.1v (obviously weight comes into it again) or just use a extra cell since most of its life is below the voltage required.

I have a 3s2p pack I made for my wing and it flies great, but I got so bored after 40 mins I end up landing and flying something faster usually,the calculator says it will fly for over an hour.

Bruce, whats you views on using Li-Ion vs Lipos in transmitters? The new Transmitters (Jumper & Taranis 9d 2019) recommend Li-Ion or Lipo but not LiFe. I've always preferred using LiFe or Ni-MH in my TXs as I keep them in the house as opposed to my Lipos which are in a big metal box in the garage. In a TX, both will be drawing a lot less current so 'should' be safer but I think the Li-Ion has a more graceful dropoff. Thanks PaulG

The low voltage cutoff of most ESC's gives problems with using 18650 cells, most of my HK esc i can't disable it, so started using bl heli esc's for fpv planes with mixed results.

Looking forward to seeing the field test of those LI-ION packs you're going to put together. It may make since for a cruiser than doesn't need a lot of instantaneous amps. See you in the Air!

check out the liitokala 26650 cells too. Price/watts and discharge rates are better, and people say they deliver better under higher loads. I'm looking forward into building an EV pack but these might be the best thing in long-range and endurance RC since the 10C hk packs! :))

Where did you source those HG2s from Bruce? Looking to get some myself

About 9 years ago - where does all the time go - you did a video about making two A123 cells into a receiver pack, are 18650 cells suitable for receiver pack? At the time you said that soldering together cells with no tabs was difficult so a video of how to connect these cells together would be great.

it would be nice if you could make a video to show us how to make a 4s - 6000mah battery , thanks bruce

will 2 sony or lg or samsung 18650's FIT into where a standard 3.7 1300mah lipo pack fits on say a 4x4 truck / buggy or ???

Was there a practical test? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.

You tab welding or soldering the cells?

if we are making a pack out of 18650s then how to calculate the output c rating

Lion works efficiently for RC planes with higher cell counts and geared BL motor with big prop.

How can you determine the Mah of a battery (li-ion) if there are no markings on the cell if possible?

Where'd you buy the Li-Ion's from?

So which is better for photography flashes, Li-ion or LiPo?

Will you be soldering the cells together or do you have a spot welder?

Can I charge my Lithium-Ion 18650 2 cell set up with my Lithium Polymer 2 cell battery charger?

Hi Bruce, great intel as always. Is there any chance you could explain discharge rating? A single Li-on battery is good for 20A discharge, are you still limited to 20A discharge when you connect the cells in series or parallel. I'm thinking about making a 6S but need max discharge of 60A. Would 6S 2P work? Thanks again mate and keep up the great work.

Do you think a 4 cell lithium ion could deliver comparable power to a 3 cell lipo?

A question to ask, if connect 2 of the 18650 batteries parallel, the discharge of 20A will be same or double?

Do Lithium Ion batteries last for more charging cycles?

Where did you get the Li-Ion battery ?

Good day are those Li-io batteries rechargeable?

1+hour flight time on a 3s1p on a nano Goblin cruise speed about 35 mph top speed about 70 mph and it's under 250g with a foxeer mix HD fpv camera. So something like your little micro fpv plank it's using the same motor so you might be able to get the same performance don't you think?

what is the distance it can fly on lipo baterries