Criminally undersubbed, IMO.

As far as I know, the only lawsuit was over a book and it was from Tarja's husband and manager, and Nightwish won.

@@KilpinenAleksi That was another one, this one is more recent

​@@jaapblaauw3735 Would love a source, as that just sounds odd to me.

@@KilpinenAleksi I know, can't find it back it was just random luck i read it wihthout paying too much attention to it, in the end it's not that important.

She is. Expressive is the word I was looking for!

Yes! I love her.

Probably your youth as well! :-) No?

I agree with you. There is something in Tarja's voice. We say : "voix lyrique", more than "operatique". Style in the classical style, but very expressive. Unetil now, she does a remarkable job!

@@GuylainPrince I'm back to Tarja's voice again - forgive me, I can't help myself ;-) because in this song it sounds great! You say: "voix lyrique", more than "operatique" - that's it! That's what I meant in my previous comment, maybe I couldn't put it that way. In the band's later songs, Tarja goes more towards the "operatic voice", although that is not exactly a precise term, because - as you said - it's more of a mix. That's why I personally prefer the term "operatic style" than "operatic voice" when talking about Tarja in Nightwish. Many of my friends who have never heard NW and heard this song in my car, the first thing they noticed was not the music but the voice - they said - I had never heard such a voice. This is it! It's funny - some of them later started listening to NW and today they can't imagine their lives without this band. This is how it works - you will listen to one track, if it catches you, you will listen to the next one - it will probably delight you as well and then you are gone and there is no saving it ;-)) It was also with me!

I agree. Behind the youth, the inexperience, the lyrics with little mistakes, yoy clearly hear greatness. Even in the Carpenter, by the way. In this song, Tarja shines, in my opinion. Ant the melody is gorgeous!

In fact, I will record myself listening to one with Tarja and the one in Buenos Aires (Floor). I will just select the one I prefer and/or I find more things to say!

@@GuylainPrince nice!

Excellent! Yes, it is my opinion too! The music is gorgeous and the the melodic lines are ... perfect to me. Here voice is phenomenal; her tone exquisite, BUT singing in a metal band is NOT the best way to take care of it. She probably learned to take care of it for singing night after night, to make it more robust. But the young Tarja is excellent on this one. I understand fully the love of the fans!

Ha ha ha ! Well, as natural as possible.

Eager to hear from it. Will record my reaction and Analysis this afternoon!

Again and again, your comments Big G are relevant, informative and adorable. I mean it! By that, i want to say: we hear and feel the intelligent fan. Heart, mind and soul. I am a fan of Floor. Everybody knows that. But after this 4 songs journey, I understand those who love the first years and Tarja. Fully.

You are very welcome! A small 20-30 minutes to make your day, the price is very low! Happy I can give that kind of happiness!

Thanks! Yes, it is an imperfect album, an unfinished one, BUT it shows great things from a very young NW! I like it for that!

@@GuylainPrince Very big truth!!

:-)

Anastasia: The live is from June 2010, Namu was born in July 2012. Tarja couldn't be pregnant in that video 🤘🏼💜

You are welcome. Well, it shows an early NW that I appreciate more and more!

That is a wonderful comment! Yes, I think that it is true of northerners. I would say that joyful music (reels and funny stories) is in major, traditional, but the music that hits us right in the heart is in minor. So we are close. One thing I can say : pop music did not follow this path. So, it feels more "artificial", or foreign, in a way. This is something I love to hear from NW and other metal bands...

@@GuylainPrince Yes, that’s exactly what you wrote about pop music. That's just the way it is! And maybe I have metal music that goes better in my heart just because of that? Also, of course, often metal music is more nuanced. More variety. And often the lyrics are also better. In addition, very often metal musicians are really skilled users of their own instruments. Maybe I could use the Finnish band Apocalyptica as an example in this skill of musicians. Do you know them? The band was formed in 1993 on the principle of four cellos. It was founded by 4 classical music students in Helsinki. They studied at the Sibelius Academy, which is a university of music. So we can say that it is the institution that provides the highest musical education in Finland. They had a student party coming to the school and a program was needed there. They were asked to perform there. So the boys wondered what to perform and ended up choosing metal music. Metallica covers! But first they had to change the way the cello was played from classical to metal. So they developed a whole new way to play cello! The audience liked their performance and the end is then history. The band still exists! Find more of their history on Wikipedia. But here would be one video from them. Metallica cover "Enter Sandman". Instrumental performance. It would be nice to see the facial expressions on your face when you see how they play. I don’t know if anyone else can play a cello like these guys. This is a little fresher, from 2018. But that song has been on their repertoire since that first gig! But if you don’t want to make a reaction video about it, it would be nice to hear your opinion! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qbV2n7CpzJOuc4k.html

Well, my list of "to listen to" is getting longer and longer, but I am aware of the "Two Cellos". They played some AC/DC covers, quite convincingly. I would love to listen to your suggestion. There is no doubt in my mind that both, in terms and lyrics and musicianship, there are a lot of great musicians in metal. That is not to say that pop does not have any, it is just that the field is flooded with samples and electronic drumbeats!

@@GuylainPrince Maybe you’re watching that video the moment you have time for it and just comment (even here) on what it looked and sounded like. I guarantee it is worth seeing and hearing. I have never seen anyone get sounds like that from a cello. I myself stared with my mouth open that "what's going on now is whether that solo really comes from cello and not guitar." :D

I will be doing this for a long while, I think. I love it, so much! And what a great way to have great discussions. Be ready!

Yup! C'est l'impression que j'ai!

Totally agree! It has to do with "telling a story" and "moving people". And he does that beautifully!

Je suis un défenseur de la langue française, très convaincu. Et j'ai tout pensé à partir du français, dès le départ. Comme je fais tout par moi-même (recherche, tournage, montage et sous-titres en 4 langues), je dois me faire aider par la technologie. Les vidéos d'analyse de textes était impossible en français. J'ai dû, à contrecœur, passer à l'anglais parce que la chanson est anglaise. J'ai gardé mes réactions en français, de loin les plus écoutées (2 à 3 fois plus en fait). Ça permet de faire surgir un petit peu de notre belle langue dans une mer d'anglais. Pour le reste, je suis très content que l'anglais et le français soient des langues internationales. Beaucoup de gens me manifestent la plus gentille attitude parce que je ramène le français dans leur vie quotidienne. Un petit plus, pour moi!

@@GuylainPrince Excellent! Le monde de la musique est très anglophone. Je suis bien heureux de vous avoir découvert, il y a quelques mois. Je serai présent après Nightwish, car Rush est aussi un groupe avec une grande histoire et que le défunt Neal Peart avaient des textes pas pires comme on dit!! Salutations!

Ha ha ha ! "Pas pires" est l'expression juste, ici! Ça risque d'en décoiffer plusieurs. Quelle profondeur, ce Neil! Il va nous manquer...

You are ABSOLUTELY right! I should not be surprised anymore! A great journey is still ahead of us. So, I will be prepared for everything! :-)

Well, he wasn't wrong about Tarja's voice... the Siren is definitely too powerful for acoustic.

They also had Samppa Hirvoven as their bass player for the first seven concerts, And were to ask him to join permanentely, But he had to complete conscription for the Finnish Army, So Sami Vanska was to become the bass player. I wonder why it is said Tuomas felt Angels Fall First album was just a Demo, I really enjoy the songs and especially the moving namesake of the album.

@@nightwisher751 According to Wikipedia, in a 2008 interview with Kerrang! magazine, Tuomas said it was only meant to be a demo to send out to record labels, but Spinefarm thought it was "perfect" and put it out as it was.

@@jeannettesimpson9778 Yes , thankyou, Spinefarm offered Nightwish the record contract , and the band then went back to the studio to record four more songs to accompany the Demo songs. I wish there was a live recording of the song angels fall first, apart from the bootleg Tavastia club version, by Nightwish, I think that would be awesome

Excellent comments guys. I will correct what I had wrong. But for the rest, it confirms what I got from listening for the first time with you.

Oh, great! Thanks. One of the flutes I was pretty sure it was a real one in my second listening, but a second one sounds exactly like the keabordist I played with at the time... Sorry for the mistake. I will correct myself!

In the live version of the band. Were they on the studio recording. I am pretty sure it is Tarja on both channels, but I would understand if they had a second singer : the duo parts are gorgeous!

@@GuylainPrince I wait your analyze eagerly!

Already recorded. Will be on YT by Friday!

Poetic words. Beautiful!

I understand you. Completely, dear friend. This song was playing in mys heart/brain for days after I listen to it. A great sign in my case!

:-)

@@GuylainPrince Underneath- Tarja Turunen.Live.

I am about to discover that, with you, and I am thrilled! Be there my friend, I need fans like you to help me in the mazes of NW! Welcome aboard!

A later addition to the methos. Milton was responsible for that, if memory serves.

Yes, in Christian faith, it is accurate. I doubt, though, that the songs talk about this. It was just a thought from you? Thanks!

@@GuylainPrince Agreed & ity was just a thought form me. Nothing to do with the songs message, but rather you being a man of God.

Ok! I figured just that, yes! Peace!

Il a joué les flûtes???!? Bon, une autre affaire! Merci de me confirmer que c'est bien ce que tu veux dire, ici!

@@GuylainPrince oui oui , il joue principalement du piano et .. des flutes , de mémoire il a joué de le flute pendant son service militaire dans l'orchestre et c'est après celui-ci qu'il refusa de rejoué de la flute car ca l'avait dégouté . Au plaisir guylain . A et pour epica j'ai retrouver une petite vidéo en lien avec ce que je vous avais dit pour les influence de simone pour nightwish en particulier le chant de tarja kzfaq.info/get/bejne/grOIZaqlpsmtqWQ.html&ab_channel=EmbraceWithin

Merciiii !

Yup! :-)

Grazie mille, caro amico! Ascolterò WT uno di questi giorni, questo è sicuro! Nel frattempo, grazie per le gentili parole su di me. È molto apprezzato! Grands mercis, cher ami! Je vais écouter WT un de ces jours, c’est CERTAIN! D’ici là, merci pour les bonnes paroles à mon endroit. C’est très apprécié!

En fait, vous avez raison sur une chose : Tarjo brille en studio. Possiblement aussi en spectacle, mais quand c'est un enregistrement de fan, nous n'avons que ce qui est capté par le téléphone. La pleine palette des fréquence nous est inaccessible. Donc, ça nous indispose, par rapport à la version studio. Nous disons, au Québec : la version live part avec "une prise contre elle". C'est quand même très bien. Mais vous avez raison : Tarja est très bonne en studio.

@@GuylainPrince oui assurément, si l’enregistrement live avait été fait correctement, cela aurait nettement meilleur au niveau émotions

With the ability she showed in the Beste Zangers? I don't have the slightness doubt. She is fabulous.

I do not agree with you that this band is the best from 2012 ,they are well known from Oceanborn album a year after the angels fall first and the top of the band was 2004 with Once album. If you know them enough later even be Suomi as you said,is bad for you because you missed Tarja's era who is the most important and creative era with 5 albums. You missed also Annete's era who also is a big one. Maybe you are younger of course and it's understandable 😉.

May I express a small point, here? There are things that "sound" amateurish, yes. Sometimes the words are not the best, both on content and in style. I agree. Some parts seem "unfinished". Until now, the Carpenter is the one that strikes me the most. But I disagree with you on two points : the melodies and the singer are beyond ordinary. Given the fact that these are, in reality, teenage/young adulthood productions (don't forget, they are demos for the young NW themselves), I understand why it attracted attention from the people and a record company. I really wish they had a bit of coaching and a real professional production, a project director to give full quality to these songs. I have heard many demos in my life, and produced 45 of them. I can tell you one thing : this is GREAT stuff!

@@GuylainPrince thank you!

Why would that be like that? I have heard and seen very ruff and dark metal, and violent music. Both by personal interest or because they are of interest for the people I love (nephew, godson, cousin, etc.). I works in high security prison. I have seen a lot of things. Don't worry too much about me. I can take a lot! But thanks for the concern!

I think it is just a problem of a different mike strategy for the orchestra and her.

Well, the Canadian way, I will agree... to disagree a bit, here, if I may! :-) I can hear NW in that even if it is a very different style. The poetry, the music, the power of a female singer... all of this is there. Or course, they are young, very young. But to me, NW is recognizable. As for the MEGA-BAND they became, there is no doubt in my mind that they can hardly be surpassed... by anybody! They have their own style. Most of that was already present in their formative years... right here. In a song like this.

Pretty harsh words for a band the style inspired many bands that came after them. This album may not be your cup of tea but to say it is not original.... Tarja was an enigma for many people. When she rode the Oceanborn I was present. The album Oceanborn is regarded by many has a milestone of the Power Metal era of the mid and late 90's. They took the Stratovarius(Episode and Visions album) rythm and riffing and gave it an edge. Some only cheerish this era because they incorporated neoclassical style pushed the guitar of Emppu on the level of the keyboards. They were a breath of fresh air. Nightwish were part of the Zeitgeist of the revival of Power Metal. From Wishes to Eternity is a great live concert. And like I said before elsewhere I saw Nightwish in 2000. Tarja was fine and the band had so much fun being in a far away country. As for the ever touchy singers question welll... I was always outside the Nightwish drama because I was on the train and of the rails on different periods of my life. I got no bone to pick on who is the best! Seen them live on the Decades tour. Do not forget that they played Would like to read your list of super/edgy original bands! I am always on the hunt for sounds! Good night to you from the North!!

My words were harsh? Not at all! I was saying that some of the characteristics of the today NW are already present in this 3-songs set of their beginnings. I really think that NW is beyond metal, to be frank. They are music and great poetry, and they happen to use metal instruments/music. That is their path. But I certainly don't see them as "confined" to the metal genre. To evaluate a great song... is hearing it in an acoustic version. Without "trimmings", you can see the song as it is : melody, word, arrangements. I think that NW's songs hold the test and are among the very best in the genre... because they began like they are on this demo. These three songs are VERY instructive on the identity of the band. Of course, NW will evolve and find their own sound (essential in a metal band), but this is building on the great foundations that we looked together. As for the question of Tarja and her solo career, great actors/singers need great text. Or great music. To be frank again, do you know another band like NW? Pretty unique, from my point of view.

@@GuylainPrince My words were for the comments above yours! Je commentais la personne qui s'en prenait au style de Tarja et du groupe à leur début! J'aurais dû l'indiquer! Je n'ai rien contre votre analyse du style des trois chansons.

@@guimich2478 I wrote: The first and second Album are without an original style. Some songs are good, some are remarkable, but thats random in a wild sea. Compare Imaginaerum! Or the newest. Wishmaster was the first step to be Nightwish as more as some musicans together. And even Once is not one piece, cause you can take randomly one song (of corse not GLS!) from this album and only real fans would say immediately: Thats Nightwish. Something, that gets importance, is evolved. Tarja was the wrong piece for this puzzle and Marko was needed. Floor was impossible luck, she closed the last possible place. You will kill me, I know, but I have to say it: Troy might to be too much. His position in 2011-2016 was good, he delivered the spice at some moments, where it was needed. But now he is too dominant, playing so much instruments, singing along with the great duo Floor/Marko or even makes his own style with Floor, like in accoustic versions. Btw., i knew the story, that Toumas was inspired by Stratovarius (or Sonata Arctica) - but I cant believe that. They were in the late 1990s a metal-band without specials. There good times came after 2000. Ok, my most loved albums from them are Elements and Elysium... (Pariahs Child). Tuomas could only be fascinated by this finnish group playing music. And he first wanted Nightwish more like this song here. And, pleace, tell me one album from Tarja, especialley after her first, that is remarkable in any way. Look at youtube. Her videos are much less wanted. She was wrong for nightwish, because she believed, her voice would be the strong matter in Nightwish-music. Perhaps she noticed her mistake. In the last years she was on stages with Marko or Floor.