Like this comment to dislike the video - I would love your feedback on this guys.. This is something I really found some joy in.. So let me know your thoughts.

By the end of the occupation there were no saints on Bajor "It's not you I hate, Cardassian. I hate what I became, because of you." - O'Brien to Glinn Daro it is not just the the Bajorans the computerizes of the golden age of starleet to keep the peace. The Breen, the founders, institutionalized prejudice effects everyone. The vulcans in enterprise, The Klingons beliveing that the strong stand on the bones of the weak, The Romulans, The Borg believing only when you are assimilated are you equal, Nog skillfully explaining because of the institutionalized prejudice of his own culture made it impossible for him to fit in and that he needed to join starfleet to have any hope of having the kind of life he wanted

One thing that's never addressed: what if Cardassia wasn't starving when the fascist regime arose? What if it wasn't bad, or at least nowhere near as bad as depicted? With how Orwellian the Union is, the Junta could be an unprecedented age of impoverishment who historical records have been so altered none realise what has happened because no physical evidence remains and no one is still alive who knew better.

This is the story of Imperial Japan from the annexation of Korea in 1910 till the end of WWII

"No one gets away Scot free" ...that's a natural law. Brilliant essay, 👍

That was well done, thought out and expressed.

This is easily one of my favourite Lore Reloaded videos, thank you 😀

I have absolutely nothing to add, except that your essay shows why I loved Star Trek so much. Be it the Cardassians or any other race, each one is not only a fictional race, they're a mirror on humanity. As you described the Cardassians and their history, I was constantly transported to different nations and empires throughout human history. If anyone has any issues with this, I'd argue that they, be it deliberate or not, don't acknowledge the complexity of history and civilisations. As is repeated constantly, not every 1930s-40s German was a Nazi. In fact, probably only a 3rd were true believers. As for the negative impact on the Cardassians, you can again look at the Germans. Many of them appear consumed by a national hatred of themselves, with many political decisions seemingly aimed at removing the whole German bloodline. Hell, one of their own politicians said as much. So, overall, a fantastic essay, be it on a fictional race, or as a mirror on humanity. Well done

I am currently reading the republic by Plato for my graduate program and it’s interesting some of the parallels between the regime Plato envisioned and the cardassians. They aren’t a perfect match but the totalitarian similarities are definitely there.

I am reminded of O'Brien's statement to a Cardassian soldier in Ten Foreward as everyone is damaged. The truth, to me, is that even in war and in peace, everyone is damaged from the mindsets developed when one group is seen as the lesser of the two groups.

Very well put! I only want to point out a fact that i would have interpreted differently: since history is always written by the victor the origin story of the cardassian military junta of starvation due to wrong societal focus on spirituality etc needs to be considered propaganda of that government. We may never know the exact circumstances and reasons for that coup but it is another fact of fascist propaganda that the overthrown government and society are always depicted as weak and decadent to justify that coup.

First, Lore, you have balls of steel to be willing to dive into this. Second, your essay reminds me of something somewhat related: namely some post-colonial countries that didn't do so well afterwards. Aside from the loss of lives and physical wealth, there's a loss of social capital. Local elites that cooperated with the colonizers would maintain their extractive economies post independence because that was what they were good at. There's a social rot lingers in both parties long after the imperial power leaves, a brutalizing zero sum mentality that sees only domination or death. Bajor was lucky to avoid this societal cancer, thanks in at least some part to the Federation. By extension, I can't help but see the relationship between Cardassia and the Dominion as a twisted version of the one between Bajor and the Federation.

I believe the Bajoran Occupation exposed a fundamental truth that no one wants to consider. When there is scarcity, which is inevitable, there will be suffering. The question becomes thus: Do you willingly allow your own people to suffer to avoid harming strangers? Or do you harm strangers to feed your people? No matter which way you turn it, evil will be done. And evil and suffering have the bad habit of becoming self-feeding fires.

This was intriguing, thought provoking and well researched without demonizing and "othering" people. Kind of sad that this nuance is capable to be talked about regarding fictitious peoples but almost impossible in America with flesh and blood real people. I liked it, Lore. Well done 👍 Incoming "ree-es" in 3...2...1...

You did an *excellent job* on this video bud. Thank you. Balanced, fair, accurate, I've watched / listened to most (all) of your content, this is among the highest quality you've done. Thank you broseph

The writers of "Star Trek" were well aware of two universal truths: the road to Hell is paved with good intentions; and power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I was waiting for this one! Love it man!

I really liked this video. Thank you for continuing to create Star Trek content!

Never commented on your videos before but I have to say… thank you! Amazing work! One the best you have made for sure.This one is up there with your deep dive into The Drumhead. It reminded me of a class i took in undergrad called Comparative Genocide. I would like to comment in regards to your statement that people like Gul Darhe’el and others would and possibly could commit their atrocities on fellow Cardassians as much as they would have done to the Bajorans is dead accurate. One thing I remember my professor from my course showed us was that before a government goes down the path of genocide it will first orchestrate a politicide, a mass killing of political opponents and moderates before preceding to a genocide. Although, it never really ends as opponents to the regime’s actions can always rise up. Quite frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone like Maritza, if the Bajoran occupation would have continued on would have eventually spoken up and found themselves executed for treason against the state. I always found it fascinating how gutsy DS9 was in dealing with subjects like systemic racism, imperialism, fascism, and especially genocide. How it gave glimpses to how the Cardassian government committed heinous acts during the occupation and even how it tried to justify these acts of barbarism to the wider Galaxy. Thanks again for an amazing video!

Good work. Good perspective... Telling the truth about the occupation. Very detailed as well. This video is accurate and appreciated.

This is one of your best videos yet dude. Star Trek always excelled at examining human nature and history through the lens of sci-fi. DS9 really took that to a new level, and it's awesome that we're still discussing this stuff decades later. The occupation of Bajor gives us an opportunity to examine our own culture with through a detached lens, and that's important. Really wish Trek were still telling these stories and challenging viewers this way.

Looks like those Dassy boys got themselves in a whole heap of trouble again.

This is excellent and very well thought out.

Of the 3, Garek observed and learned the MOST not just cuz he survived. But he was honest even brutally an in some cases overly about it. Which made him a good post Dominion Leader. Cuz he ALREADY realized by wars end Damar learned the harsh an hard way. Hard to say just what he'd learned had he survived the final battle of the war that he never knew just how big a part he played. Now Dukat, here's a guy I've always said was BAD at being the good he at first thought he was... An yet, for awhile, somehow kept a capacity that coulda in time seen him switch sides and redeem himself like the others did. Even though Garek believed he'd cursed himself for his also major role in winning the war against the regime that had for a long time trashed his life. He differs like he an Garek, admits GREATLY, at one time Garek must've been alot like Dukat. But his experience losing nearly EVERYTHING changed him. That probably woulda also been Dukat's redemption story had the show an him too lasted long enough. Know what they say about heroes surviving long enough to become least temporary villains and vice versa. All EXCEPT Dukat's time ran out AND he always did have one the biggest and most arrogant egos of anyone ever seen. His early actions could be downright heroic an good at times that even arch rivals like Kira noted it more then once. So he had the capacity to TRULY become the hero he saw himself. What he lacked was the ability and motivations

Their stomachs were full, but their spirits were empty

One thing to remember about occupations is, the USA had all its values and virtues and principles, yet look at Abu Ghraib

This felt a lot more substantial than your normal content, and I thank you for it.

Dumar's arc, furthers this point. Should have been given more screen time.

I love these deep dive videos you do

Very good video. Quite insightful

This reminds me the speech Morpheus gave to Neo explaining the matrix in the woman in red scenario. People inserted in a system is so use to be that even if the system is bad, they will give their lives in order to that system to continue... 🤔

Germany prior to world war 1 and 2 was seen across the world as a paragon of science, philosophy, art and culture. If the Cardassians were any more on the nose they’d be a pair of glasses.

Thankyou for this insightful content

💛Why is it that Lore Reloaded is the most level-headed voice in the world right now?

That was excellent. It's very chilling how when you're taught to devalue another life form you can transfer that to any life form. I sometimes wonder if that's going to happen here.

Disturbing subject matter, to be sure, but it's a topic that people need to come to terms with. Anyone with a passing familiarity with real world history can probably agree. Maybe seeing it through the lens of a fictional conflict like the Bajoran occupation can help us all understand it a little better when we see these patterns emerging in real life.

Great evil is always done by people with so called good intentions. Spreading suffering is pure evil keeping suffering to yourself is heroic. It is hard not to blame others and lash out at others when you are suffering. It is harder still to look in on one's self and reflect on what they did to end up in the suffering they find themselves in. Yes yes there is suffering people are born into but to lay down and do nothing isn't going to change things. It is so easy to do nothing and blame others then to try to do something yourself to change your situation.

romulans: old china cardassians: new china me: not happy when i use google to look up the spelling of cardassians i get kardashians

One thing is I wish you would have mentioned what went on between dukat and sisko in that cave. That's a bit important as well. Or if you could do a episode on that between dukat and sisko and what was said in the cave. I don't know if it was done already but it would be interesting. How and why dukat lost his mind and sisko finally saying it's him or me and all. Just a friendly suggestion.

Great essay

Great video!

"Ay'o. Who dat?" "Cardies." "Cardies who??" "Cardeez nuts. Ha!!!!!"

Thank you for this.

It's all good until The Founder walks into the room. Humbling isn't it. Now, put her and the Borg Queen, in a room. I'll bring the popcorn.

Thanks, you gave me something's to think about.

Pretty deep thought. This is why I love Star Trek it brings to life all of our dark and bright human traits and qualities

1:13 nope still here

DS9 seems to me that it was supposed to be a fictional counterpart to the soviet invasion of afghanistan, which was at the time the show was airing, just coming out of it

My take is that even pre junta, the basic unit of cardassian society was the family, not the individual, and everyone not part of one's family was some degree of outsider. That may be why orphans are shunned instead of embraced; they represent a broken family.

Well that was depressing, which probably means you covered the topic well.

Interesting! I would have to agree. The Cardassians have always reminded me of fascists, considering the way they conduct themselves.

Lore you should work for the History channel. Really good video. It almost feels like we were talking about real people

Rapid modernization, combined with rampant militarism and historical revisionism (or rather cherrypicking real history and existing cultural values to reinforce the new nationalistic and militaristic ideology) are reminiscent of Imperial Japan in the 1920s and 30s. Also, the treatment of Bajorans by Cardassians is in many ways similar to how Japan treated the Chinese and Koreans. I always felt that the "space nazis" comparison, with Cardassians being the nazis and Bajorans being the Jews is a bit of a stretch. Even if we insist on the nazi comparison, the Bajorans would in that case be more like the Slavs -- brutally enslaved, exploited and treated as sub-human, but not meant for total extermination, like the Jews were.

Very Good Video very informative

Well done.

The published Star Trek hardcover book, "New Words, New Civilizations," is a collection of short stories. The book presents a fictional explanation that the stories were written by journalists from the United Federation of Planets. One of the stories in the anthology is titled "The Glories of the Hebitians." That particular story is intriguing because it mentions that the term "Hebitian" translates to "Person of Beauty," while "Cardassian" translates to "Person of Strength.” The framing of the story is predicated on the notion that the statements between Picard and Gul Madred about history are factual. The short story also asserts that there were once ancient solar sail ships travelling in both directions, and that there was a considerable period of friendly traffic between the Bajorans and the Ancient Hebitians.

*APPLAUDS* Gr8 presentation

a good movie to use as a comparison in a follow up would be jo jo rabbit showing how the general public live under a fascists nation in decline

Great video, and I think it’s especially highlighting the great writing of DS9, how the federation simply couldn’t wish away fascism and scarcity just by throwing aid at the problem.

I had seen that part of their view of Bajorans as "lesser" was that it was easier to get Bajorans to turn on each other, including family. Betraying family to the State was acceptable, but these sorts of betrayals they noticed before the Occupation. I don't know how much to credit this, it's just something I remember noticing from either books or Season 1.

1:21 still listening Lore, Heineken in hand

Nice

More like this please.

First and foremost, this posting is definitely enlightening to both as a Star Trek fan and as a realist of a world that has very similarities in this particular context. I can't help but think about the U.S.S.R and the German State Police during the 1960s and '70s. I am African American and the stigma of racism and slavery still affects the world long after his end. Cardassian and Bajorian ties are both harsh and unforgettable. I understand that Cardassia was a resource poor planet. hunger and destitution were major motivators to military Powers taking control. It's no excuse for the enslavement of another entire race in order to save or get the pretense of saving another. I don't believe Cardassia to be evil, but I do know that people in power will use a scenario with evil intentions cloaked in patriotism.

While I liked the video as a whole, one thing stood out among the rest. Bashir says "There is more to life than duty to the state." and Garak responds "A Federation viewpoint if ever I heard one.". The thing is, what we see in the show and may of your videos, that isn't the Federation viewpoint. They are fine with you doing your thing...until it interferes with their thing or they need you to do their thing. Either way, the Federation steps in and decides that anyone who isn't helping them is in the way and needs removed. Sure, it is usually painted as one of the Badmirals doing it but it happens with enough regularity that it seems to be the SOP.

If only the Piccard and Discovery writers put as much effort into their scripts, we might have decent trek these days.

"Every major horror of history was committed in the name of an altruistic motive." Ayn Rand

A very well done essay. I do feel bad for the Bajorans for simply reason ecerything they were was taken from. Now given what was occuring to the Cardassians being resource starved who knows if it us true because the main source of this comes from TNG Cardassians who were very much villains especially from Chain of Command who captured and tortured a Starfleet captain to gain intell so this story of how bad things really were could have been fabricated in an attempt to justify or possibly turn the Starfleet officer. Using this as a backdrop I don't believe what the Cardassians did was right and also O don't believe that you use systemic racism as an excuse because the more contact you have with other species and cultures the you can pick up right and wrong and if a way of life is better. Look at the Bajorans they threw off their Cardassian oppressors. And given the reach of the Cardassians they would have encountered other races to see there was a better way to feed the masses. We can compare this to Kurzon and Jadzia Dax's love and affection for Klingon culture while Ezri Dax sees the flaws of the culture from a governing position three.

I hope this has a lot of the most humble Cardassian who didnt even get a statue.

And the Federation didn't lift a finger to help the Bajorans because they didn't want a war with the Cardassians. Lest not forgetting the Federation has a peace treaty with the Klingons who would of gladly been given the chance to kick some Cardassian azz

I'm just curious, are you going to start uploading to odysee or someplace like too? Seems like it might be a good idea so we can still find you when the time comes.

.what ds9 episode was playing on this discussion?

You wonder what exactly was going on with Cardassia that a warp capable civilization was unable to even feed its people. And that even after the military took over and established a command economy, it was still necessary to engage in territorial conquest to meet needs. I suppose the modern analogy is China - which has achieved amazingly levels of poverty reduction and self dependency with its own form of fascism and occupation. But China is still in many ways an underdeveloped nation.

Often felt like the Cardassians were the other side of a coin the Federation was on, not a direct opposite like the Terran Empire but a shadowy version that slowly embraced aspects that the Federation and by extent Earth rejected. If the Starfleet had become more materialistic, more pragmatic, more self obsessed at the open expense of others they would begin to mirror the Cardassians military government.

Ive never heard of this "Deep Space Nein"... Is it anywhere near Terok Nor?

Awesome essay on the effects of fascist ideology on a populous as seen through Star trek's carcassonne occupation of Bajor. A very compelling watch.

Cardassians are my favorite 👍🏽

Yep.

I really like the Cardassians and see a lot of good in them

Which DS9 Episode is being shown here?

You make some good points but I don't agree with the Idea that the Cardassians as a whole are responsible for the occupation of Bajor because that's guilt by association and I don't consider the Cardassians to be a monolith nor is it fair to consider them to be one, just because the majority were bad and racist doesn't mean all of them were, the existence of the of the dissonance movement proves it.

First time I watched DS9, it immediately became obvious why Cardassians resembled snakes. Goddamn spoonheads.

Sad that anyone has to worry about triggering people when discussing fiction.

A lot of viewers simply call the Cardassians Nazis and arguably with good reason. They are a fascist state afterall. The Central Command's rise to power is similar too. They are convinced of the cultural superiority to others. However their occupation of Bajor, I argue is not analogous to the holocaust where the end goal was an extermination of an entire people. To me the occupation of Bajor resembles far more closely European colonialism, where the goal is plunder of resources and expansion of influence. Think more of the actions of the Belgians in the Congo, The Spanish in S. America or the British in India, Kenya, Ireland or just about anywhere. I think your video is a very fair analysis and is right to note how everyone is lessened by institutional racism. Along those lines it is worth highlighting the contrast between the very first and last episodes of DS9. The story begins on the day after the 50 year occupation of Bajor which has resulted in 15 million deaths on top of widespread destruction. We are shown the evils of what the Cardassians did and why they are hated. In the final episode, on one single day, a genocide of 800 million cardassians is carried out on Cardassia Prime by the people who they had first welcomed as allies before gradually being seen as occupiers too. Yes the Cardassians did a lot of bad things but there are those in the Trek universe who are far worse.

Do we know why the Cardassians chose Terok Nor as their Bajoran command post?

He chose violence today. My guy you dif iy without doing it

Every Cardy a king, with a tespa in every pot and a Galor in every town.

Well that got dark quick..

There isnt a single monument of Gul Dukat on Bajor, unbelievable!

We are getting the "starving people" story from a military that has been in power for potentially many generations. And not just a random soldier, but a torturer telling the same person there are 5 lights to break his mind with a forced life. And we see Cardassians claiming to have risen out of destitution AFTER the military took over. I think that speech was meant to reference the WW2 German line about the trains running on time. An excuse over the top of systemizing the most evil things humanity does to other humans.

I went to Bajor on Spring Break. It was cool and all, BUT STILL NOT 1 STATUE!!!

Nothing to say. Commenting to help algorithm.

As we know Gul Dukat negotiated a pact with the Dominion to drive out the Klingons from the Cardassian empire and who can blame him! The federation wasn't going to do anything and the Romulans would only help if it was in there best interest. Why do you think they lent a cloaking device to Sisko breaking the treaty of Algeron...a treaty that has kept the peace between the federation and Romulan empire for 60+ years

For Cardassia!

The occupation lasted 50 years. That's an average of 300,000 occupation-related deaths per year, on all of Bajor, the entire planet. Bajors total population is 3.8 billion. Thus the annual rate of occupation-related deaths is 1 out of every 12,666 Bajorans per year. That's low, incredibly low.

"My dear mr.LR "brutal" is quite a strong note to begin on from a supposedly objective point of view. The kind of strength embodied by the best of Cardassian literature. We were all guilty but the real question is not if we were guilty but how were we all guilty.' - probably just some simple tailor.

This essay is very well done, thank you for the time and work that you've put into this. At the same time, in America we are two steps away for this very place in which we become a fascist government.

I don't get why you mentioned institutional racism the way the occupation in the show looks more like apartide

Klingon Imperialism next?

Cardassia probably had their own Orwell 1984 by the hands of the military