In Dota2, Europe has dominated other regions. This wasn't always the case, before the OG 2 year dynasty there was an intense rivalry between China and Europe. The way Europe took games off of China was by outdrafting and experimentation to throw off their mechanical edge. This, it can be argued, with the victory of Spirit in the last International, is still the case.

I absolutely agree that pro league scene is probably the only e sports field where meta doesn't converge to an equilibrium reliably

In an alternate universe C9 keeps LS and is currently smashing worlds with crazy drafts and everyone is going fucking crazy at worlds.

This is what 2019 G2 did. They defined the meta at msi and worlds.

I think rekkles meant good draft as in the team can pilot the comp, whereas western teams can have a actual good draft but would not be able to play most champs good enough or well enough tgt that the pick is played to its full potential

I want to see LS's vision of LoL being played. I'm not creative enough to come up with picks like that on my own, but it just sounds so fun.

This is another example why 2019 g2 was so dominant. They defined the meta, not the Eastern teams. Another big thing for them was that they could mechanically match/beat their opponents.

there was a g2 iteration, with Hjarnar Wadid, completely shutting down teams with Heimer bot before the magebot meta, they had to ban it against them

When the Tigers picked MF support to answer Zyra out of nowhere, T1 didn't know how to respond and almost got reverse swept. They had to ban her in the end by how har she threw them off

was just saying this to a friend of mine. "we need to play our game, not their game " very insightful video, needs more discussion and exploration for the west to learn and not just cope.

I think what might interest you would be the tekken competitive scene. Historically Koreans had always been by far pretty much the most dominant region due to many factors such as arcade culture and top players being able to practice against each other more easily because of the shorter distances between major tekken hotspots in Korea in comparison to NA. There were always notable players from Europe and NA but Koreans would consistently win. And then in 2019 a player from Pakistan came out of nowhere and convincingly beat every top player he played against in the third biggest tekken tournament of the year. And he fundamentally outplayed them playing better tekken than any korean including Knee, tekken's Faker basically. And after a while other players from Pakistan started competing internationally too and proved Pakistan as a region is as strong as or stronger than Korea, which made sense since for a player to get that good he needs a scene around him that's very competitive. The thing that's interesting though is the difference between the two cultures seems to be irrelevant since optimal Pakistani play is just as robotic as optimal Korean play. It's all about practice and self-improvement. Which yeah this has not much to do with the video but it's not impossible for western players to eventually become as good as Koreans if they really want to. The fact that after 12 seasons Korean and now Chinese players are so dominant speaks volumes for their dedication. On a similar note western players in street fighter are consistently able to beat eastern players (in this case japanese).

Yes pretty much what G2 did in season 8-10. People keep forgetting season 8 G2, was also innovative because hjarnana brought out heimer bot that had to be eventually banned. Then in s9 the flex pick was pyke top that they used to beat SKT.

Its so weird when I see fighting game players all the time be able to consistently evolve the meta and develop strategies against the top tier characters through weird picks and strategies so that they can "punch up", but league players are so inept at doing the same thing. I really do think though that the constant patching of the game every two weeks has lead to players getting lazy in being creative and show ingeuinity in how to solve problems. Melee is a 20 year old game that still has a developing meta to this day. A fucking mid tier character (yoshi) was able to take down the greatest melee player of all time and win a major just recently.

Group A: practices 6h a day, pls dont be rude if I do a mistake :) Group B: practices 14h a day, gets gigafisted after making a mistake. Group B beats Group A most of the time. Group A: Why am I worse? I DONT GET IT!

The way they can win is by learning and then drafting certain champions that practically nobody would tipically play against and just stomp them. Champions like Ivern, Rengar, Sona, Fiddle, etc. The thing is that the players have no incentive to do so because they get paid a lot for playing on auto-pilot so why would they even try. It's sad.

I was waiting for the Zac top from Odo. It would have caught people off guard so good and its actually so good into ashe heimer. He played in in the LEC regular season and then never brought it out again despite there being so many oppotunitys. I don't get that.

Going out of the norm is against the individuals best interest, consider that if the individual wanted to pick illaoi mid into sylas his whole team needs to be on board. He would also have to be prepared to take all the blame if it went wrong for whatever reason.

I mean the logic of win by tech is very possible but just because they're robotic like and very focus on mechanical play doesn't mean they're dumb. Having an edge on tactic could surprise them sometimes but can you keep out smart them over and over despite being fundamentally worse? Also to archive that tech you have to put the work in too you have to practice about match up harder which bring back to basic that they have to try harder.

But the problem of this is like every year their trial and error is coping into this as well. Like a western region will do something new and eastern region will adapt into it deeper than the cheese itself, like they doubled their learning and eventually cut the things that western regions would gravitate into after the said cheese, like the next steps would just be stop and the cheese will just cease to exist. Why? because they spend more time than western regions does so it naturally became a disadvantage.

what is crazy to me is that for example c9 won their championship playing a style. Then they enter groups saying "the meta shifted, our champions are not that great". Then 10 days later we have all the quarter teams playing yumi vs lulu, sivir aphelios, leblanc, wukong, poppy, trundle. (pretty much their championship style) They are just stupid.

It took Eastern teams 2 years to make top 4 at an international event in Valorant.

Hes right, one of the reasons why old G2 was styling on the eastern team (mostly korean). They have crazy picks, in all lanes.

Step 1: Pick Illaoi Step 2: Recreate your favourite cartoons Step 3: Win

Absolutely agree. 2019-20 G2 was so successful vs LCK teams not because Perkz was better than them but because he put them in unknown and unpractised grownd. G2 being able to flex literally all mages and bruisers not only between top-mid and jg, but also bot was their success basic on which G2 built their friendship-like realtionship in the team, plus of course all players' experience, etc. adding to the great results. If this G2 can somehow find a way to surprize in draft and play style the eastern teams then they can have a chance of advancing far before the eastern teams figure them out ( because they are very good at analysing too).

Fun fact : pre-patch 12.12 Nasus E would kill Heimer turret but after HP buff the turret now live with like 10-15 HP :)

There's nothing strange about it. Look at Tekken tournaments. Amazing players are often getting destroyed by obscure characters every year during huge events. There's over 50 characters with different move sets in that game. You can only prepare for so much. In ranked some characters you see once in 6 months, literally nobody plays them. You literally can't practice against all of them, so getting good at those can get you really far. It translates to LoL 1 to 1. Find good unpopular counters that break current meta play. Look for holes in standard play. That's what pro teams should be good at, but they just copy each other trashcan ideas and go with it for months upon months then wins are decided purely by mechanics and who's draft is more unholy

He is completely correct here. A clear example of this has been the Heimer Support picks against TOP and RNG.

In pro scene, Dota2 just has real coaches and captains that actually think which makes the game more interesting through drafting, game plan, and how their game is supposed to be played to have the highest possible chance to win Also with 7 bans each, it promotes hero diversity and makes replayability enjoyable. League may need more ceiling in mechanics on very specific champions but overall Dota2 is a more polished game. You also dont need third party programs to watch pro players from different regions on how they play their game. (You dont have to pay costream just to watch their POVs in pro scene).

This video should be watched by all western coaching staffs

I really think LS looks at the game in laning matches as opposed to overall team comp and map control. Everytime I hear him disagree with someone he bases it on very minute details. When yes in local environments this might be better but as a whole for the map and game they want to play its counter productive.

This couldn't have been said better

I agree completely, mechanical and practiced things East is way better, but the only way to beat this is draft completely "out of meta" champions that the Eastern players are not familiar with (trading patters, damage they do at certain item breakpoints) therefore even mentaly they will be shaken and out of place in the current game. I'm actually baffled that the players themselves can't come up with by their own, there is hundred of games where they play against a one trick in soloq and they get bodied. Coaches I will not comment on because there is no way they are not just impostors.

That’s basically how G2 won MSI btw

Ofc they’re not gonna talk about the work hours difference

rekkles's face when ls speaks lol

Its realy a shame that most teams are so META oriented i understand the need to play certain champions are buffed but sometimes players and coaching staffs tend to forget easy interactions, i dont know if its scrims that creates this but for example what happened to MF/amumu bot it dominated the tournament early but now it seems forgoten.

Basicaly beat them with ur brain not ur hands because they play like robots and when they face something unprogrammed they dont know what to do

culture, ping, and work ethic

LS is spot on Whenever the NA or EU teams did well in any international events regardless of the skill gap is innovation Like for example you take SION support and an HEIMER bot This combo is lethal in the fact you can set up plays rather easily even if the wave start is not in your favor You ult with SION followed by the Q stun then HEIMER turrets + bouncing grenade The eastern team would be thrown for a loop and thus by having SION as a reliable engage you just could also steamroll the opponent in teamfights Obviously after seeing the matches where this strat work the EASTERN TEAM will adapt so you need a WESTERN TEAM which can keep the opponent guessing and then brute force their way G2 is such an perfect example for this cause you see WUNDER going PYKE and T1 didn't even expect that curve ball thus leading g2 to smash t1 in both MSI + WORLDS that year

Ls is wrong though. I agree on the fact that eastern teams tend to struggle against untested grounds, but it is not as easy as it sounds to create new strategies, let alone perfect them. If you really want to bring something NEW to the table, you have to consider LoL as a game has already evolved countless times in Micro and Macro, so how long will it take for PROS to sort it out? Not much. Make a new strategy, how are you going to test it without it becoming meta for other people as well? Limited scrims to limited teams? Playing it in solo q?How will i test this and know it's good when i can't play it against good teams because i have to keep it "New".

Would be interesting to see a video about the reddit post (TCL will lose the Worlds/MSI slot and become part of ERL) on your second tab

Still waiting for a Vlad at worlds

Winning is all that matters LS. If they are winning with "bad drafts" then they will keep doing those drafts, because all they care about is winning.

2019 pyke top g2 vs skt is the right example of this

2:35 true. The only example that this is not true is CS . But FPS games are not big to begin with in Asia.

Classic art of war, like literal components of it. Sun tzu says that to know your enemy and know your self you will surely win. So when the west plays the same game as the east they end up in a situation where they only trade down, the east knows the META MAP better than the west does. But if you do what LS is saying and warp the game state and the world, suddenly the east does not know the enemy. DRX did this to great effect in groups on day 2 and in the EDG game, the heimer changed the draft fundamentally, while EDG was able to beat it 2 games it was still banned in games 4 and 5, same for DWG VS GEN G IDK the exact extent that Geng prepared for Canyon's Kayn but it didn't look like they were super ready for it. You can even look in play ins where MAD played DRX when Eloya played the Belveth game, DRX coudln't control the jungle, they weren't aware of what the pick could do. DRX ultimately won because they were given a Baron dance and ZEKA smurfed it but it MAD winning for most of the game.

Can we crowd fund an lcs or lec team led by LS?

From a TCG point of view, there's a difference between netdecking and creating a deck with your own thoughts.

It really confuses me when the West doesn’t try anything new, but instead they try to fight on Asia’s terms. Skillchecking Asia will get you nowhere because their schedule has more games than the West. So in terms of traditional picks, the West is already behind. So why not try to close the gap through non traditional picks?

Reminds me of the MAD vs. RNG game in play ins where MAD tried to run a Nautilus Kaisa comp into them and got shit on. You cant beat China and Korea at their own game! Oh but guys the east has high winrates on these champs lets copy them maybe we will be good lol! Lets draft and play for fights around early objectives that we cant win because they have 1000+ more hours of practice than us on those exact scenarios!

True, I mean playing their game and wondering why you lost is so fucking silly

Afte the GAM vs TES game I still don't understand how Karthus isn't pick or ban, like GAM played so much worse and still managed to win, you all can argue about the bug that happened there at the end but it still doesn't change the fact that TES should have turbo stomped GAM and it was still very close.

The thing is eastern teams and more likely lck is more creative with their drafts than the supposed drafts of lec in worlds rn.

The thing is, LS see only stats, etc..... but sometimes players knows better at the spot whats better for them or what they wanna play.... like calling Pro players stupid just because they picked Heimer.. probably even practiced it...... and enemy had no idea about it.... just because it doesnt suits LS's maths, stats etc.. is kinda pathetic

Easy answer : play better.

I think Eu League needs a serral like player to make a change

I wish LS coached G2 super team back then... Man

lot of what you said is right imo, but you didn't listen to what rekless said until the end...he said a lot of things which you would certainly agree on lot of them

Can confirm Illaoi fists Sylas lmaooo

LS touches on the main complaint I have of NA teams. NA teams seem obsessed with the predetermined meta and they aren't willing to create their own meta. They always play whatever other regions deem strong and are turbo focused on those picks. It gets to the point where they will stop playing their play style, the whole reason they won LCS or got top 3, and turbo focus on "meta" picks and then wonder why they got smashed.

We could see that with the Canyon red kayn, and he was turbo nerfed, imagine how this champ was utterly bonkers for 3 years at least. Never picked in pro-play except a Caps blue trash, which is the worst form. Veigar is another example of a zone control mage that has very high utility and just auto-scale. If the enemy doesn't have blink they can't play and can't move, never picked except by Nemesis and he was fisting people on FNC. Best champions are obviously game dependant and less reliant on solo queue stats, but if you refuse to improve the game by learning champions it feels terrible, like Rogue picking renekton to do what ? What is a renekton brining to the game there ? Another example that chovy brought in scrims recently was the tank Galio, i always played tank galio toplane when the matchup was right and it always felt good cause of high base dmg and litterally trash ap scaling unless 600 ap, why not bring this midlane to have an extra tankline for the drakes early on, and pick a mage carry in the jungle ? We don't know, we saddly don't know... Another example would be the Akshan midlane, if you want early kalista power to control bot why not pair that with an akshan midlane that litterally destroys mages level 2 to 6 ? Another example would be the utility supports midlane like Ivern, like Karma if you get a graves jungle why not pick a mage toplane like kennen or gwen and fit an unabler like ivern midlane or Karma to chain buff the grave so he's using his shotgun to the face of everybody killing everything ? We don't know...

Yall are sitting on nunu sup. Perma engage is hard to play around for some bot lanes. Complete shuts them outta the game playing catchup.

Maybe this is why bauss got to challenger with such ease. He’s playing his game, not theirs.

Basically, the only way to beat eastern teams is to cheese them. But this works only in BO1, not in BO5 leading up to a final, therefore it is pointless. That's why EU had a good first week at both Worlds and MSI, but once found out, they totally blew up in 2nd week.

3 days later: Kayne pick, heimer supp

Literally one time the euw team stepped out of the comfort zone in to the pick ban was when caps pulled out the vayne, against perkz galio, like four years ago... somehow, they are convinced that Asian analytics is imaculate... and for that reason the drafts and picks played in the east are infallible, literally west hasn't had a innovative team since M5, which would have made a mess, but somehow got boned over ORGANIZED CRIME accusations... in the distant past...

Its funny to me to watch someone with no pro playing experience - an whos only pro coaching experience was ended after like 3 weeks - sit so high on their horse like they know so much better than an entire scene that live and breath the pro game. If he could just prove any of it that would be a starting point but he cant

damn. how old is rekkless

One thing, don't shy away from brining in Korean coaches!. That's the first thing LPL did before taking in Players. the LCK coaches really know how to make players. LPL would be not developed as it is now if it wasn't for LCK coaches. You can hire as many players, mercs but without the guidance the league will only end up like LCS or the infamous Chinese soccer.

Just turn it into solo q

I think one of the biggest advantages the East has in LoL is the lack of innovation. In previous years, the West relied on Riot to shake up the game so they didn’t have to innovate. Remember lane swaps? All memorization. Riot gets rid of it so West can stand a chance. Remember everyone whining that Korea was too good at vision? Riot removes it. At this point Riot would have to remove champions to help the West. And you could argue they already do that with some balancing changes where a champ is nerfed into being unviable. I think this also contributes to the lack of innovation. If you break the game, Riot will nerf it/get rid of it. However, there is nothing stopping teams from making these innovations to get wins when it matters. No patches happen during Worlds. Somehow no one has figured that out yet.

Ls should be a coach. With his intelligence a team would never fire him. He would add so much to the region he coaches and change the game

"This is so cope" LS he wants EU to be better than KR and CN this is the opposite of copr

Look at the meta in bronze. People are so hardstuck they're willing to try anything to get out of bronze, which lead to new botlane combos, new toplane matchups, new midlaners. 2-3 months later pros play it in LCS/LEC and they win by surprising their opponents and they get called innovative rising star.

American and european teams are more worried about winning money, having success is a secondary thing

I think that's why G2 for a while was the weakness of eastern teams because of their non conventional drafts and playstyle. It would pull them out of their comfortzone and they wouldn't know how to handle it...

In Rekkles mind: Eastern players can play all Champions. Meanwhile in reality: RNG bans Caitlyn on blue side, because they can't first pick it.

How does no one listen to him I still don't get it

its all about how much time you want to invest....and be sure, there is always one eastern kid who invests more than you western teams dont really want to win, they always advertise that they wanna win but they dont....thats the biggest lie in lol esports xD Its about money not winning (the players want to win tho)

The west plays too honest, too close to what is perceived as "safe" and "meta"

well one of the solutions is on not ginving up coachign and show and proove; that u can make it better ls... and maybe not in fucking inter na but in an actual mayor region like eu :D

I'd rather believe a pro player who played for long and attended worlds grand finals 2018 than a streamer and bunch of nobodies watching replays and commenting opinions publicly. You don't experience the pressure live your just sitting there watching.

but noone coppy weastern team comp

chess too with risky non usual openings you trained more than your much better opponent

As long as East still winning because of mechs diff they will still baiting all the world to follow their meta game

I said it once and I'll say it again. League of legends inherently IS AN RTS. You manage recourses and whatnot. If you look at league exactly like that you can actually come to some really funny conclusions.

i dont understand why t1 doesnt put ls as coach. he knows so much about the game. whenever i see him stream and im agreeing with him most of the time. but they have bengi as coach. but still got to give bengi some credit. t1 have been playing better.

eastern players don't do anything outside of League that's why they're so good , but western players on the other hand try to have a life while playing that's where it goes wrong

its like playing chess against a grandmaster, sure you might win, but you'd be better off playing checkers

I really like that LS proves to us that there is so much more potential in league pro play.

I’m 99.9% sure that the LoL pro scene is the way that it is because the players are so young and are men. I’m 24 now and thinking back to when I was 18-19-20 my thought processes began and ended with whatever stroked my ego the most. Western LoL players probably know, subliminally, that they’re wrong, but their ego won’t let them play a champion they consider to be… easier or requiring less skill. Great example with Heimer, but an even better one is with enchanters - they’ve been insane for multiple years now and yet Western pros refuse to play them. My theory is because there is a pervasive opinion in the community that those champions are easy, and the players would rather stroke their ego playing Thresh or Akali. They outwardly admit that eastern players are better, but if they believed that then they wouldn’t continue playing the game as if it were conventional warfare. They’d do what every outmatched, outgunned army has ever done in history - they’d fight an asymmetrical war. But if they accepted that they had to do that then they’d need to bruise their own ego and really start believing that they aren’t as skilled as eastern pros. It all just kinda affirms my opinion that Western pros are really interested in winning anything. Typically, when you really want something, you do whatever you can to accomplish the goal. They aren’t doing everything they can to win. They won’t let go of their egos to make these matches competitive. And, thus, the pro-LoL scene collapses in the West because the competitive teams don’t want to actually compete. It’s really sad.

i dont know if anyone but ls understand these concepts and is in a position to captain teams

so get the coach job again if you hate those things. plis

ITS CALLED DRAFT SCALING IN ALL ROLES, PLAY SAFE AF, AND STACK DRAKES. THEY DONT PICK SCALING LIKE THEY SHOULD. When you are worse than your opp - you must outscale. SIMPLE!!!! IF DONE PROPERLY, AT 20 MINS THE OPP WILL HAVE PUSHED DOWN MORE TOWERS THAN YOU... BUT... YOU WITH PROPER POSITIONING AND OBJECTIVE SETUP SHOULD WIN TEAMFIGHTS AND CAN BEGIN TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.

I feel like this rant is pulled from the pages of a speech he laid down at the feet of Cloud9 while he was head coach. But instead Jack clings to his cringy “systems” schtick and his top seeded side gets dogwalked out of groups by end of week 1. NA will never learn. Maybe EU is more open to his theory.

Actually EU brought lucian name to the meta. i think NA bought heimer. Asia has 10x the playerbase. no need to psycho analyze this.

The fact that c9 would drop this man is baffling. If LS led c9 into worlds, c9 would be 1st seed out

The west needs an identity

Becoming a very good at Z tier champs, spending many months to get better at a few champs while the eastern team dominate for 3 more seasons. Where have I heard this before....?

I am genuinely starting to think solo q and for fun players >>> western pros