She probably didn’t get indoctrinated into ignoring the contradictions 😅

@@NotBizarro or maybe she was indoctrinated and was able to get past it. That was me. The first time I read Genesis front to back outside of the Church (and I was really trying just to understand), I had a giant WTF moment. More reading led to more WTF...

Like rewatching Kubrick.

@@YoumadBro-sp9gs those texts were written like hundreds of years later by people who interpreted genesis 1 and 2 as being non contradictory so yes. The Bible isn’t a single document, it’s a collection of writings by tens, possibly hundreds of different people over an absurdly long amount of time, and at each layer of history the previous texts and stories are being interpreted and reinterpreted

@@YoumadBro-sp9gs it’s basically like using Dante’s Inferno to interpret the bible’s position on hell lol

I like the wet paper bag metaphor. I think today's fiat monetary system "supplied" by the Federal Reserve qualifies as a wet paper bag that should be treated as such.

But she is NOT correct anyway. If you're going to undergo critical thinking, you have to STUDY the original Hebrew of the text. Genesis 2:17 really says, "Dying, you will die." In other words, the PROCESS of death begins. It is ASSURED (surely) at that point. In the context of the Garden of Eden narrative, Adam and Eve FORFEIT the partaking of the Tree of Life - which would've prevented their physical death from happening. STUDY of the bible is key. Etymology, history, geography, culture, etc. "Dying, you will die" occurs elsewhere in the Bible and it's important to see how this term is used rather than forcing our modern Western view on the ancient text. Numbers 26:65 is the other occurrence of the term. There we find “they shall surely die” (literally, dying they shall die). These are the same Hebrew verbs and the same grammatical construction as in Genesis 2:17. God told the Israelites shortly after they came out of Egypt to go into the land of Canaan and take possession of it, as it had been promised to Abraham. In Numbers 26:65 God says that because the adult Jews (20 years and older) refused to trust and obey God and go into the Promise Land, they would die in the wilderness over the course of 40 years (one year for every day that the twelve spies investigated the Land-see Numbers 13:1-14:10). But those rebellious unbelieving Jews did not all die at the same moment. Their deaths were spread over that whole 40-year period. So, dying they did all die and that death occurred at various times some years after God’s pronouncement of judgment. Proper Hermeneutics is the key to getting proper interpretation and NOT just "critical thinking".

@@abc_12333 But then this would mean that Adam and Eve were still mortal before they ate from the tree of knowledge since they hadn't eaten from the tree of life yet, so they were already "dying". God actually seems afraid that if they eat from the tree of knowledge and the tree of life they will become like gods so he kicks them out. He even makes clothes out of skins before he does so, which is so weird, since it would mean that God kills an animal, skins it, and tailors clothes for them instead of just creating some heavenly garments.

@@arkady0 But it wasn't a case of "dying you will die". Death was NOT ASSURED until Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge. As long as the Tree of Life was there, there was a chance of Immortality. God preventing them from eating from BOTH trees is just a POLEMIC (Greek word for war) on the ancient Egyptian cult of Osiris. The Osiris cult myth had those with the knowledge of good and evil AND immortality. But if you look in Genesis 7, it mentioned the 17th day of the 7th month - that was the day of Osiris' DEATH. The Hebrew writers opposed Egyptian & Mesopotamian (Adapa and his sages) thoughts of immortality. Evidence is also in the names of Genesis 5 - Adam (man), Seth (appointed) Enosh (mortal). "Man was appointed to be mortal".

@@abc_12333 Well of course JUST 'critical thinking' will not provide you with nuanced or correct answers, and I guess it's a little disheartening to see people 'stopping' in the questioning process and leaving it at that, I think this is an important first step in engaging those skills.

Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

Why can't human find Jesus dead body or adam and eve and if God was real God probably was lie to Adam and Eve

Worship the God of Abraham YHVH! Yehovah! Jehovah! Galatians 4:22...it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the servant girl and one by the free woman; 23 but the one by the servant girl was actually born through natural descent and the other by the free woman through a promise. 24 These things may be taken as a symbolic drama; for these women mean two covenants... The Apostle Paul was in a Cult! Paul worshiped the God of Abraham! During his trial before Felix, Paul said, “I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect” (Acts 24:14). We are also told that Felix knew about the Way (verse 22). It seems that the Romans considered the Way to be a sect rather than a religion. Mark 9:38 John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

@@theguyver4934 Historical evidence proves jesus and his apostles were vegetarians? And here i thought we werent even sure *the* historical Jesus existed at all, as in the one performing miracles, having apostles in the first place, being crucified and coming back from death. *A* Jesus on the other hand, sure a few existed, and one probably gave rise to the myth and may have been crucified.. but everything else..

But she is NOT correct anyway. If you're going to undergo critical thinking, you have to STUDY the original Hebrew of the text. Genesis 2:17 really says, "Dying, you will die." In other words, the PROCESS of death begins. It is ASSURED (surely) at that point. In the context of the Garden of Eden narrative, Adam and Eve FORFEIT the partaking of the Tree of Life - which would've prevented their physical death from happening. STUDY of the bible is key. Etymology, history, geography, culture, etc. "Dying, you will die" occurs elsewhere in the Bible and it's important to see how this term is used rather than forcing our modern Western view on the ancient text. Numbers 26:65 is the other occurrence of the term. There we find “they shall surely die” (literally, dying they shall die). These are the same Hebrew verbs and the same grammatical construction as in Genesis 2:17. God told the Israelites shortly after they came out of Egypt to go into the land of Canaan and take possession of it, as it had been promised to Abraham. In Numbers 26:65 God says that because the adult Jews (20 years and older) refused to trust and obey God and go into the Promise Land, they would die in the wilderness over the course of 40 years (one year for every day that the twelve spies investigated the Land-see Numbers 13:1-14:10). But those rebellious unbelieving Jews did not all die at the same moment. Their deaths were spread over that whole 40-year period. So, dying they did all die and that death occurred at various times some years after God’s pronouncement of judgment. Proper Hermeneutics is the key to getting proper interpretation - which she didn't do.

And who is the original creator to you?

@@andykanonik8935 by "original creator" I was referring to the nice young woman who made the video Dan was reacting to. Suffice it to say that I don't think ancient mythology is a good way to understand the universe.

@@andykanonik8935 Your comment confuses me. Did you just read "creator" and thought they talked about a god or what? Or do you literally want to know who the youtuber / tiktokker of the video was.. in which case.. yeah Dan should totally write video descriptions. Like at all.

@@andykanonik8935 There was no original creator. The concept is almost always either nonsensical or self-refuting. Insofar as being nonsensical, it becomes such by virtue of the fact that you can only call anything a creation (your unstated major premise) if you demonstrate the creator. And that requires two major undertakings : showing the existence of a creator AND demonstrating that it 'created' anything at all. Just showing the existence of a creator rather strongly depends on defining the creator in at least profoundly positive ontological terms (ie., not saying what god ISN'T but what god IS). And nobody's managed to climb that hill.

@@PhrontDoor nor will they climb that hill

Intelligence is the enemy of religious belief and indeed of superstition generally. Look at Matt Dillahunty, he started off life as a proselytiser until he discovered that it was no more than a collection of folk tales with no consistency beyond that.

This is why you don't read anything smartly but wisely

Adam and Eve DEFINITELY knew what death was. Otherwise there would be no need for the Tree of Life. Animals died and plants died. They saw that first hand when they took fruits from the trees to eat.

@@abc_12333 In Genesis the only mention of death to Adam and Eve was that if they would eat the fruit they would surely die. There is no other mention of death, so there was no way to for them to even know what death was. There was no discussion of the purpose of the Tree of Life, and no indication that Adam had any need to know what it was, it was just a name. Could have been the Tree of Schwartz. If you were told of a Tree of Defenestration, and that if you ate its fruit you would be defenestrated, unless you knew that word you would have no way of knowing that it meant you would be thrown out of a window. Genesis is a narrative describing scenes and events to the reader, but there's no basis to assume that every character mentioned in a narrative knows everything about everything mentioned in the narrative. In fact in a narrative the characters in it only know things that the narrative says they know. Even when we first learn about death and it's explained to us, we really don't have any sense of it until we see something die. As a kid you might know the definition, but it's not until your hamster dies, or your grandma, that you really start to understand what it is, and neither Adam or even ever saw anything die. So clearly Adam and Eve could have had no idea what the threat actually was. But ultimately it's just a fairy tale so you can really say whatever you want. We definitely didn't come from two people in a garden.

@@abc_12333 Note that the ancient Israelites didn't consider plants to be really alive, because they didn't have the "breath of life". The New Testament says that death entered the world through Adam's Fall (Romans 5:12). Plenty of Christian apologists claim that animals didn't die or even eat each other until after the Fall. All nonsense, but there it is.

@@rollinolson3562 Pay no attention to Christian apologists. As for Romans 5:12, Paul is NOT referring to natural death. Natural death is NOT a curse. This is about the blame, violence and jealousy that leads to death. Adam was the first to place blame. The clue in Romans 5 is that is says Adam to MOSES. Notice that "death" ends at MOSES. Moses brought in the law. A law against blame, malice, violence and jealousy. Obviously natural death didn't end when Moses came along.

Once it's threatened, they goddamn sure know what it is.

I'm not sure how I really feel about your take but I sure enjoyed reading it! 😂

Love it.

They believe made in God image don't realize there black people and white and different humans race white different eyes and hair

@@KenyatteFullerjr-xm9ys Same race.

What race that be

@@KenyatteFullerjr-xm9ys human race

What about mix children

That is CORRECT! The original Hebrew is "Dying you will die" - which matches Alter's translation.

Dan has addressed this point in an earlier video. It’s clear in the language that god says the moment you eat it, you’ll die - as in drop dead, nothing to do with doomed or death will come upon you at some point. You have to reconcile the lie, hyperbolic or straight up deceit. He’s allowed to lie. He also changes his mind.

@@GoodieWhiteHat NOT true at all. Look up the ORIGINAL Hebrew. "DYING, you will die". Dying is a PROCESS. The process begins in that Adam forfeited his rights to the Tree of Life! That is the CONTEXT. Adam is no longer permitted to eat from the Tree of Life (Genesis 3). So with no chance of living forever, the DYING process is now official and has begun. "Dying you will die" is also the EXACT phrase in the Book of Numbers when the Israelites FORFETIED their chance of entering the promise land. Did they die immediately? NO! For many, it took 40 years.

@@GoodieWhiteHat Here’s Alter’s commentary on verses 16-17: “The form of the Hebrew in both instances is what grammarians call the infinitive absolute: the infinitive immediately followed by a conjugated form of the same verb. The general effect of this repetition is to add emphasis to the verb, but because in the case of the verb “to die” it is the pattern regularly used in the Bible for the issuing of death sentences, “doomed to die” is an appropriate equivalent.” Like I said in my original comment, it helps the narrative flow a lot better. Chapter 3 notes that the serpent was the most cunning of all the beasts. He is portrayed as a deceptive character. If God had lied in chapter 2, it would be a bit odd to paint the serpent as a deceiver, considering that he was the one who told the truth. But as for my personal beliefs, I have no desire to reconcile the passage. I would not object to God lying in this passage. Both have strong arguments for their interpretations, but in my personal opinion, Alter’s interpretation makes more sense than Dan’s.

So Evolution is about a talking Ape. That teaches you about a talking snake! Lol There was only Adam. Adam was naming all of the animals that God was creating! How long was Adam living before the creation of a woman! Genesis 2:18 Then Jehovah God said: “It is not good for the man to continue to be alone. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.” 19 Now Jehovah God had been forming from the ground every wild animal of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call each living creature, that became its name. 20 So the man named all the domestic animals and the flying creatures of the heavens and every wild animal of the field, but for man there was no helper as a complement of him.

And yet so many believe in the myth…..

I don't understand apologists' motivation to try to 'defend' God in this issue. God is almighty and anwers to no one. He killed Job's family for no good reason and refused to explain his motivations to Job, making perfectly clear to Job that he did it because he could and nobody can question him. Why should this god abstain from lying? Well, I lied. I understand perfectly the apologists' motivation. I think we all do.

He probably did it because Job is very moral 😇. And moral fanatic humans are very irritating, especially to someone who wants to make a stable human society that doesn't kill itself when left alone for a short while. Especially, because the best way to make sense of the 2 Genesis accounts is God makes humans. Then they die out. Then God tried a bunch of other times until Adam and Eve. That means Yahweh resents moral 😇 fanatic humans for always leading to society's destruction. Yahweh is *consistently de facto* nice to sinners 😈. Giving them toothless punishments that follow the letter of the law, but without any actual harm or malice. Yahweh always looks out for them. Yahweh hates Job, because it is sick of humans like him given Yahweh's experience with them. @@juanausensi499

An allegory is more of a recent thing. Since before the discovery of ancient human fossils everyone saw it as to take it literal. It was always taken to be literal and even the New Testament refers to Adam as the first man in enough occasions.

allegory = fiction

It's fiction yes, but allegory? No. Allegories are supposed to be instructive. This story is explanatory. What are we supposed to learn from this story? Don't fall into Yahweh's traps? It makes more sense as an [incorrect] explanation of why humans have hardships.

@@travis1240 same message as the rest of the bible: god is an azhole. I don't buy that it actually is an allegory, but if it is, that's the message.

That may be true historically, bit as a defense of the text as divine truth, I don't think that it works. I've heard many Christians say that it is an allegory. However, they never go on to explain how it makes sense as an allegory. If God lying to two people isn't literally true, how is it allegorically true? What is it telling us and why is this a good way to tell us? If the interpretation that a person offers isn't held by most people, then the texts isn't doing a good job of communicating it.

This seems to be the one of the main thing that a lot of Christian apologists seem to not understand/accept. I see so many like Erik from Testify saying things like "Matthew wouldn't have just made up this detail, he is relying on Mark in so many places and he would have to be a crazy schizophrenic to use information he had available and then just make up more specific information in other places". Reading Michael Grant's "Greek and Roman Historians: Information and Misinformation" did so much to help me understand how much I was projecting my standards of what history should look like onto ancient writers that had a very different worldview and approach to writing history.

EXACTLY! Thank you.

I feel like something similar happens with the first lie. It wasn't a moral matter, it was just a story of explanation and neither the serpent nor god were "evil" was we have forced those characters to be interpreted today.

The Samaritans only had the Torah! The Samaritan lady knew about the Messiah from the Torah. John 4:25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.”

The Greeks worshiped what they did not know! John 4:22! Joseph - Imhotep - Thoth - Hermes! Hermes, the Greek god of interpretive communication, was combined with Thoth, the Egyptian god of wisdom. The Egyptian priest and polymath Imhotep had been deified long after his death and therefore assimilated to Thoth in the classical and Hellenistic periods. When the Greeks learned that the Egyptians had a god Thoth, or Tehuti, who specialized in wisdom and learning, they named him Hermes Trismegistus, or “thrice greatest Hermes.” Supposedly Hermes Trismegistus was the scribe of the gods who authored the sacred hermetic works that described the material world as well as the quest for spiritual perfection. Altar and Pillar Isaiah 19:19 Revelation 5:5 Imhotep - Joseph the same person who built the step pyramid. Acts 7:10... God gave him favor before Pharaoh, king of Egypt. God also gave Joseph unusual wisdom, so that Pharaoh appointed him ruler over all of Egypt and put him in charge of everything he owned. The Great Pyramid has 8 sides. The 8 sides represent the 8 kingdoms of the world. Jesus is the corner stone. The last kingdom to rule forever. There is actually ten sides counting top and bottom. First Empire was Nimrod. Who represents Babylon the Great, the Empire of false religion. The bottom of the pyramid is a side. All eight Kingdoms of Revelation ride with the harlot, Babylon the Great. The Great Pyramid having no top corner stone and the top being flat is the Harlot. Jesus is the cornerstone the builders rejected. The Nations would rather follow the Harlot than Jesus. Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. What does the Sphinx really represent. Because Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Isaiah 19:19 In that day there will be an altar to Jehovah in the middle of the land of Egypt and a pillar to Jehovah at its boundary. 20 It will be for a sign and for a witness to Jehovah of armies in the land of Egypt; for they will cry out to Jehovah because of the oppressors, and he will send them a savior, a grand one, who will save them. Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

I'm not an expert by any means, but my understanding is that a lot of the Bible predates Plato and even more predates the Hellenistic era when Platonic philosophy would likely have been available to even scholars in Judea (or Babylon during the Exile). Beyond that, there are far too many different styles of writing and different theological approaches in even the Hebrew Bible for it to be one author or at one time.

Your guess is in the absence of academic knowledge. What is the value of guessing? If it matters look into it. Genesis is considered to be written in 600 BCE. That was the third rewrite during the so called Babylonian captivity. In fact scribes voluntarily went there and accessed other religions documents. For instance the flood myth tracks well with two prior telling of the story that was thousands of years old and had been part of three prior tales. You can see it is woven together. The first te.lin had a 15 foot flood. During this rewrite the pantheon of El was discarded for the warrior god Yahweh and they went from Canaanite polytheism to monotheism. Other older texts we stitched in. We only discovered they descended from Canaanites a century ago after uncovering a Canaanite grave with tablets that were clearly ancient Hebrew writing. That also proves they were revisionist as those people were supposedly wiped out. 70% of the people in Jordan carry their genes. The "royal we" references are from older writing when they were polytheist. This is from centuries of academic research and isn't something to introduce before passing the collection plate. That needs no explanation.

@@MrMortal_Ra Yes. And what about god telling the Israelites to kill everybody in their way?

I told someone recently that if you read the Bible as you would a novel, using the rational part of your mind, a lot of it doesn't make sense. I also read the Bible, like a book of stories when I was younger and trying to piece it together, ask questions, pointing out loopholes and fallacies only managed to earn me rebuke from the ppl around me. Generally, religion requires just going with the flow for it to work. As soon as you start questioning it, it's bound to come apart at the seams.

@@joylastname3035that’s, “eating the apple”.

Holman Christian Standard Bible Genesis 3:4 No! You will not die,” the serpent said to the woman.” Is Lying a Righteous Deception or an Unrighteous Deception? We are born into Satan's Kingdom. This is why we need the tree of life. Jesus is the vine the true branch of life to God. Jesus will crush this Kingdom. Eve transgressed against the Law of God. Eve is the mother of everyone living. So in birth pains everyone was born into lawlessness. The cherub angel in charge of the garden of Eden deceived her with an unrighteous deception. This made this cherub angel the ruler of this world. Satan is an Angel of Light By an unrighteous deception she ate the fruit. 2 Thessalonians 2:9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Corinthians 2:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works. 2 Timothy 2:14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor.

Adam wasn't deceived. The ground did produce thorns and thistles because Jesus worn the crown of thorns and thistles. God told Adam the prophecy of the resurrection. Genesis 3:15 The Sacrifice of Jesus was the first part of the prophecy of Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will bruise him in the heel.” Satan the Dragon and the Wild Beast the 6th Kingdom executed Jesus on their image the cross. It was the Roman Empire of Italy that is also the shape of the heel. So the first part of the prophecy is complete . Satan bruised Jesus in the heel.

Good point. Yahweh lied, the Serpent told the truth. The Serpent didn't trick anyone. Yahweh is the one who put the tree in the middle of the garden , next to the talking serpent (instead of inside a black hole on the other side of the universe). Of course he expected the people to eat the fruit.

Absolutely. The serpent is described as smart, but not as good or evil. A smart creature wouldn't have put itself voluntarily in danger for no reason. We can assume the serpent didn't want to be punished, so it makes more sense the serpent didn't know about the punishment. Heck, reading the story, it seems God himself didn't think of any punishment before the fact. It reads more as a "oh, crap" moment (for God), than the application of any premade law.

From what I've read, both Day and Barr recognize that Yahweh was not generally thought of as all-knowing at this point in time (if at all). That came later, largely under the intellectual influence of Hellenism. The Eden narrative tradition (otherwise known by "J," or the "Yahwist") is filled with references to a very anthropomorphic Yahweh being surprised, changing his plans, and seeking information.

Philosophers have made careers out of thinking about the implications of belief in the Abrahamic god. I think it was Hegel who said that god could not be inside his creation, the universe, because if he was then he could not be omnipotent. If on the other hand he was outside the universe he could have no effect on it. There are more ways to spend a life counting the number of angels on a pin head than anyone could imagine.

Actually, before anything, could you clarify what you mean by "salvation"?

The usual justification I've heard was that "death" was the entrance of mortality into the world.

@@fnjesusfreak It's possible to make anything mean anything you want, if you try hard enough.

Yeah I'm of the opinion that Yahweh engaged in deception, but the Serpent did not. Adam and Eve are blameless because they didn't even know the difference between good and evil.

@@travis1240 Also, why they would suspect of one of God's creatures?

No half truth. God gave Adam the Eve the WHOLE truth. Genesis 2:17 really says, "Dying, you will die." In other words, the PROCESS of death begins. It is ASSURED (surely) at that point. In the context of the Garden of Eden narrative, Adam and Eve FORFEIT the partaking of the Tree of Life - which would've prevented their physical death from happening. STUDY of the bible is key. Etymology, history, geography, culture, etc. "Dying, you will die" occurs elsewhere in the Bible and it's important to see how this term is used rather than forcing our modern Western view on the ancient text. Numbers 26:65 is the other occurrence of the term. There we find “they shall surely die” (literally, dying they shall die). These are the same Hebrew verbs and the same grammatical construction as in Genesis 2:17. God told the Israelites shortly after they came out of Egypt to go into the land of Canaan and take possession of it, as it had been promised to Abraham. In Numbers 26:65 God says that because the adult Jews (20 years and older) refused to trust and obey God and go into the Promise Land, they would die in the wilderness over the course of 40 years (one year for every day that the twelve spies investigated the Land-see Numbers 13:1-14:10). But those rebellious unbelieving Jews did not all die at the same moment. Their deaths were spread over that whole 40-year period. So, dying they did all die and that death occurred at various times some years after God’s pronouncement of judgment. Proper Hermeneutics is the key to getting proper interpretation.

Ancient myth-writers were big on having the gods keep humans under their thumb. They would have been horrified by the internet and space travel.

Why are you praising us? We are the most educated generation this country ever had. We have the critical thinking skills that Boomers don't. It's a skill that develops from formal debate and writing. Additionally, we are much harder to fool with the generational bullshit of religion, white supremacy, and the patriarchy that we inherited. Also, "young woman" you mean black person. Cause a smart, articulate black person is the opposite of what the white supremacy has taught us. You realize how much of an insult it is to compliment a person for their intellect when I'll bet you've watched hundreds of thousands of Gen Z and Millennials articulate just as well, but because they're white, their intellect was "a given." These are the kinds of micro-biases that I realized I hold and I actively disavow now.

You clearly never understood Genesis 3. It's a riddle about the process of growing up. Being in Eden is early childhood. It's the toddler phase when we are completely shielded against reality by our parents. Talking to the snake represents the child becoming curious about its environment. Eating the fruit is the process of learning. Then we become teenagers and aware of our bodies. We develop sexual feelings and a sense of shame. Eventually we grow into adults, which means we have to work and have children of our own. In the end we all die. :-) Is growing up a matter of temptation? No. Is it a punishment? No. Does anybody have to make any decisions about it? No. It just happens. Dudes, none of you should have ever passed your English literature classes in high school because none of you can even remotely read a text and find out what its contents are. Shame on your teachers. They totally failed to educate you into thinking human beings. ;-)

More made up crap

The god of the OT does not have those qualities. They were introduced much later. If you are trying to read the OT from a modern perspective, then you will find a lot of contradictions that are in your mind, but they are not in the text.

It's not just a story. It's an allegory and a riddle about the process of growing up. If you can't see that, then you aren't intellectually functioning at the level of a high school teen who is learning about literature analysis around ninth or tenth grade. ;-)

@@lepidoptera9337 “it’s not just a story. It’s an allegory” 🤓 wow dude why do you feel the need to insult me like that? You know it’s not just an allegory, it’s also a political statute, disgracing the snake which was a symbol of Egyptian power that was popular during the time of king hezekiah, and empowering the cherubim which were pushed as a religious symbol by king hezekiah.

@@grieftex803 I didn't insult you. You did that to yourself by making an unqualified statement about one of the most fundamental pieces of text in human literature. ;-) The Jewish folks didn't have beef with the Egyptians at the time the story was written in its final form. If anything, Egypt would have been an ally of Judah against the Assyrians. ;-)

@@lepidoptera9337 the Bible clearly states that Egypt betrayed the judeans and Jerusalem was sieged by the Assyrians, after this hezekiah went to worship the cherubim in the temple.

@@grieftex803 That's the political story the Jewish folks wrote. You are listening to the 2600 year old equivalent of the PLO here and take it as gospel (pun!). ;-)

Nobody got punished in Genesis 3. Unless, of course, if you see the process of becoming an adult as a punishment. ;-)

That is the consensus of many Christians and seems logical; however it would seem that they did not have the knowledge of “Good” and “Evil” until after they “ate” of the fruit. I believe the story to be about Man’s introduction to duality, which involves separation. It involves comparisons and contrasts. Hot and Cold. In and Out. Experience seems to me to be the best teacher. I guess the proverbial apple did not fall far from the tree!

@@lawrencewilliamson5480 Yes I agree, it being about an ur-separation is my view as well basically (although, on the mythological timeline Lucifer fell before A&E, I believe, which would then maybe represent an even more "ur" separation. Also, it's a multi-layered myth of course). What I'm on about with the the two of them becoming mortal is that in that case death did actually result as a consequence of them "eating of the fruit", they did die. (not sure I was clear there).

It wasn't. God did NOT lie. Genesis 2:17 really says, "Dying, you will die." In other words, the PROCESS of death begins. It is ASSURED (surely) at that point. In the context of the Garden of Eden narrative, Adam and Eve FORFEIT the partaking of the Tree of Life - which would've prevented their physical death from happening. STUDY of the bible is key. Etymology, history, geography, culture, etc. "Dying, you will die" occurs elsewhere in the Bible and it's important to see how this term is used rather than forcing our modern Western view on the ancient text. Numbers 26:65 is the other occurrence of the term. There we find “they shall surely die” (literally, dying they shall die). These are the same Hebrew verbs and the same grammatical construction as in Genesis 2:17. God told the Israelites shortly after they came out of Egypt to go into the land of Canaan and take possession of it, as it had been promised to Abraham. In Numbers 26:65 God says that because the adult Jews (20 years and older) refused to trust and obey God and go into the Promise Land, they would die in the wilderness over the course of 40 years (one year for every day that the twelve spies investigated the Land-see Numbers 13:1-14:10). But those rebellious unbelieving Jews did not all die at the same moment. Their deaths were spread over that whole 40-year period. So, dying they did all die and that death occurred at various times some years after God’s pronouncement of judgment. Proper Hermeneutics is the key to getting proper interpretation.