Measuring objectionable current on pool grounding system wire - equipotential

Measuring objectionable current on pool grounding system wire - equipotential - "stray" voltage

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This video shows how objectionable current is flowing on the wire surrounding a pool. Even with the main breaker off - most of the current is still there! This is sometimes referred to as "stray" voltage or current, though it is better described as objectionable ground current.
Current should flow on conductors designed for current flow, not on pipes and grounding electrodes or equipotential planes (except in very rare and temporary fault conditions). This large copper ring around pools acts as a huge ground rod - an ideal place for primary and secondary current to flow through and connect via the earth (yes, the soil!) to the substation and other transformers/lines/etc. Current takes all paths.
We have solutions - we can share with you how our clients have solved this issue. You don't want imbalances on your power system, nor do you want current flowing through the soil around your pool, but you also want to be protected from the pool equipment. It is possible to do both. We offer a very reasonable consulting service for projects like this - you can save time and money by doing it right the first time with our help. We use a ticket system and recorded phone calls to plan and track projects. Do it once, do it right, save money and headache: www.electrahealth.com/Persona...
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www.KeepItOnWires.org
Remember to like, subscribe, comment, and share and patron our store at electrahealth.com -- we depend on it to be able to make these videos. We are happy to discuss this matter in more detail in the comments!
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Special thanks to Dave Stetzer for all of the free training with which he provided me over the years. Special thanks to pr3d for a great job video editing. Lastly, thank you to the Building Biology Institute for teaching people about these issues.

Пікірлер: 15

@jasonschlegel4027 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for this demonstration.

@JodyBC1 8 ай бұрын

What voltage did you have from buss to wire when disconnected?

@realvanman1 9 ай бұрын

Wow, that panel is quite an embarrassment. But, that abomination aside, that is a surprisingly small amount of current on the pool grounding system. Of course it will vary all of the time, as the stray current in the earth varies.. As you sort of explained, the utility neutral is grounded at multiple locations, on both the primary side and the low voltage side. Therefore, some stray current in the earth is inevitable. There is zero possibility of making it zero. A more meaningful measurement would be of the voltage difference between the ground / neutral bus in the panel and the pool equipment grounding conductor while you had it disconnected. That millivolt reading will tell you that it is of no consequence, and poses zero safety risk. I will stop short of stating what a claim to reduce this current to zero amounts to.

@rea8755 9 ай бұрын

Thank you for the great assessment. This whole "dirty electricity" has me baffled. Is it like those corrosion things on the outbourd motor?

@electvolt67 5 ай бұрын

@@rea8755 all voltage is dirty. The further you get from the main station and the more power you use....it will get "dirtier". It all has to do with voltage drop. Watch some video's on NEV or objectionable current but watch it from a supplier side....most electricians don't understand this. Like the guy making this video....lol.. Notice he ended the video before making the stray voltage/current go away. Because he can't. When he disconnected the pool ground if he had a ammeter on the grounding electrode he would have seen that it doubled from 60 milliamps to 120. That's because every time you bring something to earth it is in parallel with the other so it will take both paths and cut the voltage in half. It will not go away unless you shut the grid down. Don't get me wrong, there are instances that voltages will leak to earth and you do have a real problem, but this is not one. Notice no matter how many things he shuts down....it doesn't go away. We bond things together to create zero potential....not to get rid of any voltage or current, unless it's a fault.

@shaunkranish 4 ай бұрын

@@electvolt67 Saying the current on the ground rods will double is not accurate at all. Yes, it would go up. But the ground rods have higher impedance than the ring around the pool touching the metal body of the pool. If their impedance were equal, then you'd be correct. They are not. You are correct that it can't be zero. But it can be greatly improved by 1) Using larger (over)sized neutrals throughout the grid and to service drops - this is expensive so no one wants to do it and 2) checking all connections to ensure they are secure and low-impedance 3) using fewer non-linear loads 4) balancing phases and legs as best as possible. Bonding everything, while it may seem admirable, creates alternate paths for current to take. You turn things that are not current-carrying conductors into parallel current-carrying conductors. Current should be on intentional and approved current-carrying conductors as much as possible. Putting it in the earth and through the microbiome, plants, animals, and humans is reckless. There is plenty of research to show the effects of high frequency contact current on organisms. Cancer is but one of the many results of this.

@electvolt67 4 ай бұрын

@@shaunkranish Okay, first off....it may not be directly double but it is in parallel so it will take both paths. If he drove ground rods at the service....every time he connected one it would cut it in half. Secondly, if you are bonding them together then they have NO potential between them (or so little it's not detectable from human touch. Thirdly, now you want to rewire the grid? You will always have voltage drop on a conductor carrying current which is the neutral coming in...the service bond connects them together...it will never be zero ground or earth no matter how large the conductor. I am not a proponent for more ground rods....but NEV you will always have. We bond things together to give them the same potential and to give the circuit a ground fault path. If you have 5 volts to earth on your pool equipment grounding conductor. we bond it to the grid at the pump to make it the same potential....not to ground it. It's the same as if you walked up to a panel and touched the 120v main lug with your finger....if your wearing shoes and you are not touching ground.....you won't feel a thing; because you are at the same potential. The answer to removing this problem is ungrounded systems. We do have them but we can't control the surges in the lines when one of the phases shorts. As far as objectionable current, that's when you connect the equipment grounding conductor to the neutral AFTER the first main disconnect. That is never okay. NEV (which is what he is measuring) is neutral to earth voltage (or current). That may be objectionable but it created by the utility and it a product or voltage drop I can go on but I feel you should be paying me to teach you now...lol

@the_mariocrafter 9 ай бұрын

Still have the Samsung Smart Fridge

@loslos7096 5 ай бұрын

center tap in transformer from nuetral

@tommywatterson5276 2 ай бұрын

The reading was .06 amps. VERY minimal. You are not going to stop the bleed over to 0 amps 0 volts in a grounding / neutral system. The Earth Soil gradient conductivity will vary. You want to fix this ....install additional grounds in the system and even then it may not go to 0 in ground. You are scaring the crap out of people that do not know any better. Quit over analyzing this. You cut the whole house off and still got a bleed over into ground wire.....imagine that.

@josecisnero6156 4 ай бұрын

Well. Well well I spotted around 10 violation on that service installation, by the way you need to do some research on grounding and bonding it’s two different things, nm cable clams improperly installed , grounding electrode conductors landed at meter box, and is isolated from main disconnect (main panel) neutral and grounding conductor are illegally terminated into the main panel, the wiring to the right going to pvc box are supposed to be installed in a raceway, does the panel manufacturer allows the use of multiple over current protection brands , did you cahecknif at least pool pump is GFCI protected… the list goes on and on ….

@electvolt67 5 ай бұрын

Congrats discovering normal functioning electricity. Keep studying, you'll catch up. None of that current is going through your body at the pool. That's why you bond it, for near zero potential. When you touch a hot buss and you're not grounded, do you feel anything? No, because there is zero potential. If everything around you had 120v as well as you....you won't feel it. Bond everything appropriately to code and walk away.