Many in the comments are offering theories about or wondering why 3/8" is more powerful than 1/2" talking about mass and other things. Well I feel like we overall showed it's not (see 1822 nano and Hercules purchase using the same 1/2" and 3/8" sockets), but being the same is also interesting and new data. The anvil mass difference is after all less than 0.1lbs. The Milwaukee seems to be exception, and maybe a rare one as other channels have noticed. We (and apparently Milwaukee) have no idea why. 3/8" flies under the radar a bit but with the socket options now-a-days and the power some of these make it shouldn't. It's no longer your fathers power tools out there where smaller drive size means no beans. Here's hoping more brands offer 3/8" in mid size impacts (DeWalt, you listening?) Torque of TTC is working for Astro Tools who also make the 1822 Nano impact in this video. TTC is not the only testing out there, always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool!

just the fact that you guys went out of your way to make custom sockets deserves a like

The next step I would be trying, would be swapping the 1/2 & 3/8 anvils between the 2 & see if the results follow the anvil, or the units. In the same way as you did with the air drive.

The tool companies rate the 3/8” lower because it makes sense to the average Joe who therefore will buy both to round out his tool arsenal.

Now try the 3/8” drive with an adapter and run the 1/2” socket. That’s what a lot of us would do to use it with big sockets

Love the shout outs your doing bro. You are helping this community grow

Thanks for the shout!

My guess for why 3/8" is better in some cases despite everything being seemingly the same is resonance: the smaller shaft has more springiness, which allows the anvil to have more rebound and hit harder once it gets in that zone while the 1/2" does better at rust-busting from the extra rigidity transferring more of the sharp initial impact to the fastener instead of being softened by elastic shaft deformation.

You guys are leaving me perplexed. I was always told the larger mass of the 1/2" anvil hits harder therefore delivering more torque. Apparently you proved that wrong 👍🏽

I bought an M18 Fuel 3/8" impact 3 or 4 years ago and used it for most impact jobs Including outboard flywheel nuts, rusted wheel lugs and other rusted trailer parts. Salt water is to boat trailers, engines and other boat hardware as road salt is to automotive world. My 1/2" CP air impact is probably 45 years old, came with me from the auto industry to marine and has been rebuilt probably 4 times. Our shop air leaves a lot to be desired and I am a lot more mobile than in the past. I still needed the air for some situations. I recently replaced both with M18 fuel gen 3 I think they are called. I bought them because they are shorter and the added gain was more power. I also bought m12 Fuel screw gun, 1/4" impact driver and 1/2" drill with the smaller 3AH batterys. I wanted the 12 for the smaller size for tight access and the power and batterys have been more than adequate for my work. I almost never run down batteries before the day or the job is done. In my world battery tools are now king but in auto and heavy equipment repair I would imagine battery has it's place but air is probably still king.

Just found this channel. One 13 minute video had me sold. Subscribed

I used kzfaq.infoUgkx4ynqaujg7rZKFapA8s29kTpRszJGa3-K this for the first time today to replace the front wheel bearing on my rwd 98 dodge dakota. This had absolutely no issue removing or reinstalling the lug nuts and it took off the axle nut without any struggle. Sounds like it's got some muscle to it. Time will tell

As a retired mechanic I can tell you a 1/2" drive will last longer under high torque use than a 3/8" drive will. I've snapped the square drive off of many 3/8" drives. I have never snapped off a 1/2" drive. It boils down to the right tool for the job.

Good job !!! This channel has rapidly become one of my favorites! I hope you will be doing a "year end review" !

Hi can you test torque sticks with different Impacts? I want to know if they can limit the torque of any kind of Impactgun.

I am so glad that I bought my 3/8" Milwaukee 2 years ago that was recommended by a shop mechanic. Thank you for confirming his recommendation.

I use this 3/8 impact driver. I love it. I've removed 36mm axle nuts without an issue. I don't even own a 1/2" impact driver to be honest. I have the Snap On adaptor set. I'm good with that.

Milwakee makes M12 Impact Wrench in both 1/2" and 3/8". They are completely identical except the anvil, you can test that :)

The only reason why I ever thought someone would choose 1/2in over 3/8in was so things don't break. I've definitely broken a number of 3/8 breaker bars but not equally cheap 1/2 bars. they always broke right at the end.

I bought the 3/8” mid torque gen 2 few months ago and it’s great, I had no idea it was any more capable than the 1/2” on the contrary I thought by sepc that the 1/2” is little bit better but I wanted it be used on wider range of bolts and nuts & 3/8 was better fit for me, nice to see it is the more capable version of the two (not that the 1/2” is weak by any means).

I absolutely love my Milwaukee 3/8” mid torque. Used it for a long time and it’s my go to for 90% of jobs. I have the 3/4 with a step down adapter when I really need to give something the beans.

You're a legend for answering this long unanswered question

I must say this is one of your best videos. I saw your comment in Project Farm. In my opinion, TTC and Project Farm are the best tool channels in KZfaq. Thanks for your honesty, jokes and info saving me a ton of money.

I picked up the 2960 not too long ago so that’s nice to hear that I’m not missing out on any power.

I'd be curious to see you take the 3/8 and 1/2 Milwaukee and swap the anvils to see if the 3/8 gun is doing something that the 1/2 gun isn't.

Glad you guys took this to task. Never understood the myth of 1/2" hitting harder in the same tool. It's the same tool. I only went 1/2" with the M12 since my specialty tools fit that size.

Wow, I wasn't expecting this. I'm glad you did the test! Love your videos!

Makes sense when most 3/8" drive sockets are lighter than their 1/2" versions, meaning more power to nut busting and less socket weight to throw, hence 1/2" has an advantage in initial torque.

Hey could you guys test something I’ve always wondered about. Torque sticks do they actually limit the torque to the specified amount?

TTC never disappoints! Thank you for another great video.

As there is a bit of movement between the socket and the tool, and as the ultimate torque that an impact wrench makes is directly related to the shorter duration of the impact, it is not surprising that an anvil with slightly less mass would be accelerated slightly faster and produce slightly higher numbers on the top end all other factors being equal.

Maybe at the beginning of the curve, the 1/2" transfers more momentum, like the heavy sockets do. But at the top end, the 3/8" is robbing less power because it's lighter? Big burly V8, low end torque, vs high RPM 4 cylinder generating more power?

If the anvils are interchangeable, I would expect the torque to be equivalent between the 1/2” and 3/8”.

Surprising, and great information. I would be curious to know how durability and anvil mass compare. I would have guessed the 1/2" would transfer torque better but at these powers it doesn't seem to matter.

Okay folks!!! After 3 weeks of research I purchased the 1/2" Milwaukee Impact wrench 6922-20 $189 and 1/2" High end Milwaukee socket set $139 2 weeks ago and they arrived 3 days ago. I watched this video the day after I received the products. Boy was I upset. I went into denial and started making stuff up to justify my purchase per my comments below. But then after further research and sleeping on it for a day, I pulled the trigger and shipped back my 1/2" purchases then per this video, purchased the Milwaukee 3/8" 6920-20 and comparable Milwaukee 3/8" socket set. I want to thank you and suggest to set up a contribution option.

Nice Video ! Thanks for the efforts to produce these.

There is a lot that goes into that. Less mass more speed. More mass less speed etc etc. being a mechanic for 17 years I’ve been around a lot of impacts. Some things 3/8s will not do a 1/2 with a heavier socket gets it done. Same goes for 3/4 and 1 inch. For the longest time I only used a 1/2 impact and had a reducer so I could use a 3/8s socket. Each impact has its place. I could go on and on.

A test I would really like to see, is does the torque output change if you hold the socket and twist in the direction that you are impacting so that it does not rebound or jump around? I've had bolts that just would not come loose during impacting that then did when you applied a little bit of twist to the socket to keep it tightly engaged on the fastener

great video, I knew there was difference just had no idea it was this, I am in Canada and just bought the Makita mid torque XWT17 1/2" drive and love it, i do own mostly 1/2" sockets from my jobs over the years and just use adapters to size down to any smaller jobs that have smaller hardware, and don not require big torque and this new Makita with the many power levels it allows me to do almost anything with it, i also have a Makita 1/4" driver as part of a set, been using Makita for almost 20 yrs and don't see any need or reason to change and the warranty/service is awesome great video and good info to know when i go to purchase the next thing a cordless ratchet , i will wait they are suppose to be upgrading them in the near future i heard from an Aussie friend of mine 👍

I have both of the mid torque wrenches and the only difference I have found in power is the availability of bigger sockets for the 3/8 wrench. Really like them both.

I used to have a 3/8 impact. It was like a little mini impact. What I liked most about it, is that it fit all my 3/8 sockets.

Are the anvils swappable in the M18 compacts? What about swapping them between the two and see if there is any difference after that

im so glad yall did this, i bought the 3/8" m18 gen 3 compact because of those videos

I went with my gut and got the 3/8 stubby because i already had a impact socket set in that size, so glad that I’m not losing power because that was eating me alive not knowing if whether or not the 1/2 had better performance. Thanks for this video

less weight=more speed. when the anvil hits with more speed could equate to more force. Especially with both in the same form factor.

You should switch anvils on Milwaukee impacts to see if it's just anvil or tool difference...

as an engineer, sometimes you just look at an anomaly like this and say "fuck if i know" and you go home early and take a nap

When I wrenched (Like 2+ decades ago) I was the only guy in the shop using a 3/8" impact, in this case, Snatch-on's best one at the time. I got endlessly razzed for it but the thing had major beans on 2-stage full shop air (we'd cranked the pressure cutoff switch on the compressors unbeknownst to management). I found it worked very well when doing suspension work as it fit where my fellow mechanics' 1/2" impacts could not. Sorta wild that today I have a battery impact and ratchet and could not be happier for my at-home use.

Great to see experience quantified! I've done this test 'in the field' over the last few years, and the only difference I've ever seen is the ability to handle whatever socket was available/appropriate at the time. DATA WINS!

For this specific situation it would be interesting to see if the results are the same if you used a 3/8 to 1/2" adapter thats not welded instead of a custom socket because in the real world most of us are not going to buy custom sockets and would just use an adapter. I know you referenced the other videos but im curious if the results would be the same which the may just be.

In the heavy duty body shop I work in, I typically use the 1/4"impact for screws, nuts, bolts upto 5/8"fasteners w/3/8" socket drive adapter. If I had 3/8"impact driver, I'd likely stop at 11mm/7/16" with the 1/4"impact driver (as I frequently have to change to an air-powered 3/8" impact anyways.). Only because my batry-po'erd arsenal is a little bit light, do I not switch to 3/8" sooner than I typically do. If I had a batry-po'erd 3/8"impact, I likely wouldn't use it on anything above 3/4"-13/16"freedom units, cause that puts undue stress on the tool. Did I ever tell about the time I happened to be wearing eye protection when my 1/2" impact Literally Grenaded, deeply scaring the right lens of my favorite safety glasses.?! I was beating the sh!t out of something I didn't want to walk back to my toolbox and 3/4"impact stuff for. It cut my right cheek too. Had to take time off, had to file workman's comp..

My initial thoughts after watching this come to three questions: 1) How do the 1/4" impact wrenches in same/similar-sized models compare to their larger drive siblings? 2) If they fall into the same max torque range would they be capable of consistently snapping, shearing or otherwise breaking fasteners associated with the smallest 1/4" impact sockets/drivers commercially available? (much like the higher torque impact drivers were previously doing to socket adapters) 3) Ignoring tool/anvil longevity, and compatibility with existing tool sets that may already be owned; would the answers to the first two questions reduce or eliminate needs for buying either a 3/8" or 1/4" impact wrenches? (in certain torque ranges) For example: If a 1/4" can deliver same/similar max torque as a 3/8" it'd raise questions about buying a 3/8" impact - particularly if/when a 1/4" impact wrench is paired with a 1/2" high torque impact wrench for larger fasteners. However, if the 1/4" impact would consistently snap fasteners associated with sockets below what is commercially available in a 3/8" drive size the 1/4" impact may not have much added utility vs. the 3/8". The Milwaukee M12 stubby line up of impacts and the various power ratchets comes to mind as a possible example despite the differing specs of the 1/4" versions. The joys of experimentation for every "answer" found more questions arise....

interesting video! I've found this to be the case a few times myself where i have both 3/8th and half in models of the same tool the 3/8 seemed to right on par if not better. But i couldn't quantify it and always assumed it was just bias/some coincidence. heres a thought. is there any chance having a smaller anvil makes the output rotating mass of the anvil smaller in relation to the total mass being rotated on the socket allows it generate slightly more power? for example if i used a 1' socket but the drive was the same 1' diameter I would assume the rotating mass of the socket would be greatly mitigated because its not rotating outside of the diameter of the drive itself. kind of like how bigger wheels on a car can reduce torque and throw off gearing.

presumably the only difference is snapping the anvil on a 3/8 at higher torque, provided the rest of the tool is the same

I work on heavy equipment, and a mid toque 1/2” has never crossed my mind. My co-workers and and myself all have high torque 1/2” Milwaukee and the 3/8” high torque if you wanna call it that. Seems to be the best set up. I like the smaller profile of a 3/8” socket for most applications. Also the profile of a 3/8” impact wobble socket. Great channel btw!

Really good work here guys. Thanks.

thats very interesting, i got the 1/2". but in reality nothing on a vehicle should stand in the way, not surprised at the axle nut on the other vid, along with a crank bolt those are some of the tightest torques you should see(not counting corrosion) and those might see 200-300 ft lbs.

My perspective on this this comes from engine performance. With ICEs, HP (work) is torque × RPM. A big torquey V8 that makes 400ftlbs but only revs to 4500 might make 250HP, and has the torque to do work down low like towing (Like how 1/2" guns do better breaking through rust or stripped fasteners that won't move) Whereas a smaller V8 making 250ftlbs but revving over 7500rpm might make 400hp, doing even more work faster and hitting higher top speeds than the torquey V8 even with lower torque figures. (3/8" anvil swapped from 1/2" tightening clean bolts with little resistance even tighter due to lower rotating mass, increasing speed or blows per minute) Obviously these are the same guns just with different anvils, so the difference isn't huge but they do seem to follow that logic

Thanks for another fantastic video!

Love that you guys watch shop tool reviews. Tim is great!

My hypothesis behind this would show that when using a 1/2 inch it’ll get up to a higher power quicker as the 1/2 inch has more weight therefore will create more momentum. Whereas when trying to get those extra beans at the end it take less torque to get the smaller 3/8 drive spinning as it weighs less therefore you can get those couple extra foot pounds.

Idk I use 3/8s for basically everything as related to ratchets so I do like to have a compact or mid torque in 3/8s just to not have to make any extra effort but I do see the value in having a 1/2inch

TTC. RULES. ThankYou for all you do !💯%!

I noticed this lately with makita. I bought a large body half inch impact that turned out to be the same motor amp size as my buddies with a 3/4 hammer in it. The 3/4 seems to have way more bag. However I’ve not used them side by side. Just using them in similar situations.

Second, that's as close as I feel I'll ever get. I'll take it.

I want to see a tour of your impact collection

I've always used a smaller drive when possible as it's usually lighter, costs less and fits easier in tighter places. Bought a 1/4" drive impact and electric ratchet from Matco several years ago and those things certainly earned their keep and paid themselves off in no time (this is before electric impacts took over from air impacts and were still in their infancy) So last year after some tools that were in my truck were stolen (along with my truck) I decided to finally bite the bullet and buy into the Milwaulkee lineup and got an M18 drill and impact driver combo, a multi tool, and an M12 fuel 3/8" stubby impact. That 3/8" stubby impact is quite the little beast. It'll rip off standard truck lugnuts with no issue! Just for shits and giggles I'll have to see if it can even make a dent on Mack Truck lugnut lol (that'd be a lot of adapters too though)

nicely put together.

I would think the 1/2 anvil would be less prone to fracture than the 3/8 (thus giving the impression of more strength AND torque), but it also makes sense to me that the high end torque would be greater for the 3/8 than the 1/2 because the anvil for the 3/8 is lighter. Since the motor of the 3/8 is doing less work moving the anvil, it should have a few more seeds (assumed smaller than beans) to give the test setup. Further, since there would be excess torque available at the lower end of the curve, the motor should be able to drive the 1/2 anvil at a similar speed to the 3/8, thus delivering more torque than the 3/8 because it's moving the higher mass 1/2 anvil a distance similar to the 3/8. I wonder if the 1/2 anvil end was cut off (still allow safe engagement WITHOUT pushing harder into the socket during the test) to reduce the anvil mass whether the curve would look more like the 3/8? My explanation doesn't work for the Harbor Freight unless the anvils were the same weight or they were actually different internals. Maybe it's because they are providing much less torque so it's less evident?

Any plans on testing any of the MAC versions of cordless impacts? I kind of assume they aren't worth the extra money over Dewalt, but the MAC guy says they are way more powerful.

Aaaaand, THAT'S WHY I finally broke down & grabbed the 3/8" Milwaukee right angle impact wrench, instead of the 1/2"....as well as the Kobalt... Seriously, I LOVE that you did this video, because it definitely confirmed what I'd deduced...(ok...."suspected"), just based on combing thru COUNTLESS HOURS of clips from you & other contributing channels, researching, while trying to decide which tools to buy. Thanks for the confirmation (&, everything else you all do, which is all INCREDIBLY HELPFUL to people like me). Y'all are THE BEST!💯☺️👍🏼

you table looks amazing on camera for a background. love it.

Wait till I tell my girlfriend the good news about size...

been a while since i didnt watch xvideos first thing in the a.m

I bought the 1/2 drive M12(yes, Twelve) Milwaukee impact for work(non-automotive) It easily removed the lug nuts on all my trucks. That included two old C30’s, a K5, & a Ram 1500. Very happy with performance and lighter weight than the M18 or other brands.

Great find. Thanks.

Throwing this out there, in case there's any correlation: At like 6 years old, helping my uncle splitting wood with a wedge, I was too weak to sling the sledge hammer. However, using a small ball peen hammer, I could drive the wedge and it would move. Maybe that applies here? Not enough beans behind the anvil to move it, but less weight (slung faster) made for more energy? Just a thought.

Interesting to see that the 3/8ths had a much more consistant climbing rate on the chart.

Man I’ve always been taught from old guys the hammer and socket weight was king. Learn something every day. Crazy in 2021 there is still info needed to be found

You guys are getting better every video!

Milwaukee 3/8" and 1/2" mid range impacts are the same IPM and RPM. Both models use the same size motor. However, we know that the Torque formula is T = R x Force. If we use the same motor mechanism, a 3/8" is for a general duty, and a 1/2" is for a heavy duty use. I would prefer to use a 1/2" drive instead of a 3/8" drive. Same for all my air impact wrenches too.

Interesting findings. However, I come away from this video with a different takeaway. Although the 3/8" produced more peak power, the 1/2" produced more dynamic power lower down on the dyno chart. That additional power down low should not be ignored. In any regard, great video.

My M12 3/8 outperforms most 1/2 guns I've compared it against. Awesome gun

In my 35+yrs in the automotive industry, I've swapped anvils on different tools when available, if a particular task warranted such a swap. Generally, I will only make such a swap on an impact driver because I found that swapping the 3/8anvil for a 1/2anvil is at least a minor tool-castration. Not surprised by the Milwaukee 'Revelation'. My most successful swap was an older 3/8 Matco impact driver that I temporarily swapped out for the 1/2anvil. While I lost a little bit of the tools output, the 1/2anvil eventually sheared off inside the housing. I repaired it and still have it. It still hits above it's weight class.

Yooo jdtco is the shit

In the future what's going to happen is that Milwaukee will cut the power on the 3/8" to not make it compete with the 1/2", thanks for pointing that out. Consumer loses. #1 thing that companies can't stand is giving you extra "power" for free seen this happen dozens of times across CPU hardware, Milwaukee will quickly gather all their engineers and put a stop to the bleeding ASAP 😂

Amazing video! I had an idea that I think my fellow canadians would love, to test out the mastercraft and maximum impact driver from canadian tire.

Awesome vid. Do you the sku # for that 3/8 Hercules? Thank you and keep the vids coming.

ay first actual comment

Excellent. Love your scientific approach

Definitely needed this video

I bought both 1/2" and 3/8" in Milwaukee s new gen and find I use the 1/2" more then the 3/8" even though the 3/8" surprises me from time to time. The things the 3/8" will take off is shocking butt when I'm pulling craddle bolts I find the 3/8 can't do it but that 1/2" can . I believe it is the larger socket Mass and lower Dynamic torque of the 1/2" impact . The phenomenon that you are explaining can be seen with 1/4" impact drivers taking off lug nuts with a bunch of reducers vs a 3/8" that won't do because of a wimpy thin wall 3/8 socket . Design of impact screw driver and impact are different as well but there s plenty of dingle berries out there using a 10lb socket on there 1/4" screw impact drive to rotate there tires.

This video was very shocking to me. A shocking experience I've had that's similar to this is when I used a M12 impact driver to remove lugnuts off of my 2011 civic with a 3/8 adapter, it pulled them right off no problem but my father's 20V DeWalt couldn't take even one off. Now his is definitely beat up and has a lot more use on it but I was shocked to see that a 12v tool was out performing a 20V

Great info TTC

I just bought the Ridgid octane high torque impact at HD. Of course the octane batteries are out of stock so I had to get the lithium ion MAX 4 Ah battery and charger as well. They threw in a 18v octane 4.5' angle grinder for free as a promotion. Thanks for the great reviews.

Great subject guys! Could you guys try out every tool trucks brand 1/2" impact stubby? Like Snap on's PT350 or Matco's MT2765 or Mac's AWP050M. That would be an awesome review!

Interesting video. It makes me a feel a little better about getting the Hercules 3/8" impact recently. They had a free battery deal so I couldn't resist, plus I already have a Ryobi high torque. So far I haven't been to impressed with the 3/8" since it's had problems with lugs torqued to 100ft lbs. I'm guessing the 2.5ah battery is holding it back so I plan to get the high performance 4ah and/or a 5ah.

Thank you for the video

I almost bought a 1/2 inch mid torque because the 3/8 didn’t want to bust rust. So glad I waited to see the real beans, I also didn’t know the mid torque is that close to its advertised power

Gracias bro por la explicacion y El tiempo para explicar cada detalle.