Richie Godsil Thank you so much haha. It is tough, but I was a stage actor for five years and try not to let those comments get to me. Have a great day or night sir!

Hehe so nerdly but awesome to see your passion for something so epic and interesting

@Conan 1812 He barely hit a note, lets not kid ourselves.

I think there is no better way to start and end a video about the last Noldor High King in Middle earth with singing. Well done!

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fruAedqj0s2wpoU.html

It is also reminiscent of middle ages singing of past legendary great heroes by those who venerate them.

ouch

Actually King Gil-Galad and King Elendil defeated Sauron, but died too from the grave injuries they received.

Enrique Rangel Argüelles the impression I had was that they died first, and Sauron was dying of his wounds when Isildur cut off the Ring

@@enriquerangelarguelles8564 Sauron defeated them* They died first lol

@@enriquerangelarguelles8564 Elendil died from injuries, Sauron cheated when fighting Gil galad. He used fire

Men of the West great video! Can you please make a character history on beorn the skin changer.

I don't mind your singing. May I ask where you got the melodies from?

Men of the West Bit random, but where does the name Yostan come from?

Thank you! I come up with them on my own generally, though I have just listened to the audiobook where the speaker sings as well. I'm not sure if my Gil-Galad melody sounded like his and it passively came to me in my mind, but I always try to make them original!

Yoystan is my main and favorite character in Lord of the Rings Online, so I put made it my name here. Good question!

Gil-galad could also have been sent to Eglarest and Brithombar if he was Orodreth’s son. Orodreth was in charge of Minas Tirith, which basically is easiest attacked by Morgoth save Dorthonion and Barad Eithel. I believe that the High Kingship is descended from son to son. If Gil-galad was Fingon’s son, wouldn’t he have the High Kingship? Since the death of Turgon there are no direct male heirs of Finwë save for Gil-galad, he took up the High Kingship.

ShadowShroud7 exactly going with Fingon side he was the High King

ShadowShroud7 I agree with you, Gil-Galad being Fingon’s son make more sense and is much more interesting as there seems to be many similarities between him and Fingon & Fingolfin. I like to imagine Turgon became King because it was planned to keep Gil-Galad‘s existence a secrete from Morgoth

Great point. If Gil-Galad was Orodreth's son, he would have been at Nargothrond, and Turin's story would be different. I believe the only reason Turgon was called High King, briefly in The Silmarillion, is because Turgon was called the High King in the original story of the Fall of Gondolin, and that story was just too important to change much, even if it wasn't entirely consistent with the other works. This is also seen with the death of two balrogs in the same story, when they are nearly indestructible throughout the Legendarium otherwise.

@@jonathanho5879 Still no reason for Orodreth to not just leave Gil-Galad in Nargothrond, which Morgoth had no knowledge of and therefore was under no threat. Also, after Turgon died, Earendal would be the surviving male heir. There is no reason why the kingship would pass him by to go into the House of Finarfin. So, the last male heir reasoning doesn't wash either. No, Ereinion Gil-Galad was High King because he was the son of Fingon, and Turgon was only High King to suit the telling of the Fall of Gondollin.

It's one of the main reasons I love this channel.

I've read 80-90% of Tolkien's work, numerous times, but I'm terrible at remembering it all! Don't feel bad though. You are trying to remember whole histories, bloodlines, geographies and more, of 10's of thousands of years of a whole world and all its civilizations :D I'm an archaeologist and have some practice at that sort of thing and I still really struggle with it. It's good though, i means you get to read it again, almost like the first time!!! :D

Firstly, by college, you're referring to American University, where you study to graduate with either a Ba/Bsc Bachelor's degree? In the UK we got to college before we go to university; always thought that a weird difference!?! I appreciate you acknowledging your subjects "shortcomings" as well as my own. I too had, at times, thought the same of history ,thinking it narrow. Where you would learn about times, dates, the people within those periods and things that happened during, I'd always thought of that as merely scratching the surface. I always thought (not correctly or incorrectly) that archaeology took it to a deeper level; if you'll forgive the pun, we dug a little deeper than history, in to the pre-history; the how and why of the who and the when. Both subjects told what happeneed. But where history (seemingly to me) focused on the who and the when, archaeology focused on the how and the why; if that makes sense. You can study history without ever really touching on archaeology, but archaeology is based within history. The study of material culture/artefacts is one aspect of the subject, but it also looked at religious practices, death and burial rites, settlements and structures, the evolution and migration of man and technology and all the transitions of these things between the periods for all civilizations throughout the world for the last million years. Did the majority of your subject fall mainly within the last 500-1000yrs of history for Europe and America? If you don't mind saying, what was your dissertation on? I think we're both skimming over the depths of the others subject. I can't decide which way round to put this analogy. One subject wouldl create a solid skeleton whilst the other subject fleshes it out and adds meat/detail.. I can understand your professor's getting triggered by people using.the term the Viking age, unless you were specifically speaking of Scandinavian history, there never was such a period. The Viking peoples association within European history ran between 793 AD (their first *bloody* incursion in to England at Lindisfarne abbey) up to roughly the end of the 11th century. So period wise they were present during the final 300yrs of the Anglo-Saxon period (starting at 410 AD...) up to around the time of the Norman conquest(...ending 1066 AD; basically 793-1066). I'm fairly good with these periods. My dissertation was *"An analysis of the cultural transition between the Romano-British and Anglo-Saxon periods between 43AD and the 8th century with emphasis on death and burial rites, religious practices and settlements"* It took me a year to come up with my title and then 9 months to write it. Despite that, my real interest in the subject is in the ancient and classical civilizations, particularly Meso-American (Mayan, Inca, Aztec, Olmec Toltec etc) and Egyptian. Apologies for the length, both subjects are dear to me, and any apparent craziness is due to it being, damn, 5:34am (yeah right, crazy based solely on time, we wish) and the fact that I'll be damned to re-read what I've written at this time!!! :D Chapter 2: It was a dark and stormy night when the........... jk >XD

My suggestion is to read it and listen to Martin Shaw’s narration of the audiobook. Shaw mispronounces a few names but damn his voice is awesome and I feel you retain the info better

Sebastian Velez I've read it at least 7 times now and there are some things like names I cannot remember, there are so many names

Alformo Doritos him and Elendil must have been so hardcore

@@anatoldenevers237 the elves of old were very powerful.

@@foxkenji The ancient elves who are still around during the LOTR are so awesome. Elrond, Galadriel, Cirdan who's been around basically forever, I love them all

@@anatoldenevers237 even their power was diminished and diminishing more. That’s why they couldn’t stay much longer in middle earth. In the third age none of them could’ve gone one-on-one against Sauron like the other elves of old did, never mind the elves that went one-on-one against Morgoth.

@@foxkenji True, but they're still awesome af.

Maybe to make the new narrative more appealing to you think of it this way: Orodreth is generally portrayed as a weak character, almost overthrown by Celegorm and Curufin in Nargothrond and later being influenced to bad ends by Turin. But Gil-Galad turns this by 180 degrees and proves himself and his family! That message, that greatness doesn't have to come down from other greatness that came before, I realy like that. His father may've been a weak king and his mother just an unnamed Sindar maid, but nonetheless Gil-Galad can keep up with figures like Fingon and Finrod. Just because of himself, not because of inherited strenght and great legacy. And I find that to enrich his character even further instead of just coming from especially renowned forefathers and continuing that trend like a watered down Fingolfin and Fingon. Maybe if one looks at it this way, Gil-Galad being a rare example in Tolkiens world of the new surpassing the old for once, one can appreciate this reworked family-tree. I for my part do.

@@jonasb104 I could never saw Gil-Galad as watered down descendant from great kings. As a son of Orodreth he is a descendant of another great king and leader. So the argument that he is his own strong character and not a great one because of his ancestors does not work for me. Nevertheless, High King Gil-Galad is a very interesting character.

@@enriquerangelarguelles8564 That's also good, I like that you can see past Orodreths shortcomings, since at the same time he was realy wise and was the only one besides his grandfather Finarfin who said that leaving Valinor would be a dumb idea. Maybe he even had the gift of foresight, who knows...

I think it was called the last alliance posthumously. Because that would be the last time the elves had the power and numbers to raise a great army alongside men to fight evil.. because after the war the vast majority of the elves left after the deaths of so many, including their last great king Gil-galad.

It was the last alliance because after this battle the elves began to leave middle earth for the Undying Lands. The time of the elves had officially ended with the first defeat of Sauron. While many remained in Middle Earth their power and numbers were few. Elrond had his small population in Imladris/Rivendell, Galadriel still wanted to rule her kingdom in Lorien, and of course there was King Thranduil of the Merkwood elves who weren't ready nor interested in making the journey to Valinor until the end of the 3rd age. Thranduil's people never set on the shores of Valinor even in the first age when the Valar invited the first born to live with them. Some groups were unsure and preferred the familiarity of Middle Earth/Beleriand and remained there which is the elvish population of Thranduil and Legolas.

^ those two don't know sarcasm. Lmao

it makes more sense

Yep

@@whentheyes4076 russ will die

Rados Kovac The Legendarium has dragon's and wizards and shit, it's by definition more interesting lol

Richie Godsil yeah true that, I guess im not the only one

Well ironically Tolkein took much of his inspiration from our own history so in a roundabout way you're learning ours as well. Take out the magical elements and you're almost there.

All this happened in one mans imagination.. imagine the epic shit that’s gone down over the eons of ours!

Oh same I hardly give a shit about actual history but I enjoy going out of my way to study fictional world history 😂

yeah, he's brilliant

I also read the LoTR series at 12

Randy Martin i woud also like to know what happened to his spear.

Randy Martin i woud also like to know what happened to his spear.

Randy Martin I believe his spear perished with him or Mordor, or was buried beneath ash and dust. Thank you so much Randy for the support, it means a great deal to me!

@@MenoftheWest it went with him to halls of mandos

HuffleFlux If he made video on them it would 15 minutes long there isn't too many information on the Haradrim

Whats wrong with that? Notice the vid above about old tree hugger Gil is 12 mins

Presbiter Im just saying if he is gonna do a video do it about all the easterlings in one video that would be best

haradrim are southlings...

Presbiter My bad

Like what I named one of my RP characters Isil Galad or moon light

I made him nephew of Gil galad tho that wasn’t really lord friendly

Johnny 2 hats Thank you! A green dragon song would be so much fun!

do it!

But Fingolfin and his line were not pure blooded Noldo. Fingolfin's mother is Indis, a Vanya. I wrote about this extensively in the thread of ShadowShroud7's post, but in The Silmarillion, Of the Return of the Noldor, Maehdros says to Fingolfin, after being rescued by Finrod: "If there lay no grievance between us, lord, still the kingship would rightly come to you, the eldest here of the house of Finwe, and not the least wise" (page 111 in my edition). By this precedent, the kingship would go to Turgon over Orodreth, Gil-Galad, Finduilas, and Galadriel (the only extant members with almost direct relation to Finwe during F.A. 472, which is when Fingon passed away), since Turgon was born Y.T. 1300, and thus the oldest surviving member of the House of Finwe in Middle-earth. And having Orodreth be a son of Finarfin would make more sense, which is why he inherited Nargothrond instead of Galadriel, since Angrod and Aegnor had perished by the time of Finrod's unjust death. Orodreth might have been born as early as Y.T. 1300, which makes him slightly older than Galadriel. Maybe the line of Finarfin did have too much Telerin roots, as compared to the near pure-blooded line of Fingolfin, who married a Noldo, as opposed to Finarfin, who married a Telerin princess. I think keeping Gil-galad the son of Fingon was the right thing to do, as you had mentioned that the Sindar would not have minded a partially Telerin King if he indeed descended from Orodreth. But the idea that Turgon received the kingship over Orodreth (who was possibly just as old Turgon, in keeping with the precedent Maehdros set when he established that the eldest of the House of Finwe should rule) because he was a pure blooded Noldo is false. Most of these Elves had mixed ancestry.

@@DtonDC gil galad is son of fingon and bicome king of noldoli If hi was finarfinian , Elrond having blod of turgon plus maia blod was more superior than galadriel and hi take lorien bicose his husband is nephew of tingol and olmo his grandfather and nandorian Lenve /Dan mast be cusen to Elwe, Olmo and Olwe , dont forgeth noldoli kiled alot of telerians and sindars .basicali entire history of tolkien is totalywrong and dont have logic noldoli can make magical wapons make silmarils magical rings and cant bild ships but telerians can is stupid

Keeping Fingon (1:06) and Finrod (1:23) straight is like definitively determining whether Belegost survived the War of Wrath; i.e., impossible from the lore Tolkien left us.

@@donweatherwax9318 not really. U have to master the Tolkien equation to gain a better understanding of Tolkien's work and canon.

@@happywheeler4268 WHAT is the Tolkien equation ?

And perhaps a video about Amroth and Nimrodel.

Thingol and Olwe had another brother called Elmo who lived in Doriath. Celeborn is his grandson

Yes it would be cool if they made that scene longer. In the book Elrond states only Cirdan, Isildur and himself were survived from the siege of Barad-dur. It means Sauron literally destroyed whole army of the last alliance single handedly. The movie version showed us like when Isildur cut Sauron's finger off, most of the army of the last alliance was still alive 🤦🏻‍♂️

He's my second favorite. (Can you guess who is first?)

Finrod

Túrin Turambar Turun Ambartanen Fingolfin?

Túrin Turambar Turun Ambartanen Galadriel?

Normally yes, but Elrond wasn't born in 510 of the First Age as his father Eärendil was just 7 years old. He too was therefore too young to be king and so Turgon had no valid heir. The kingship therefore went on into the House of Finarfin (since the entire House of Feanor was disposessed and couldn't gain it back), of which Gil-Galad was the last male heir as son of Orodreth. So therefore he got it. Would Gil-Galad be Fingons son this would raise the question why he didn't inherit Fingon directly instead of Turgon, since usually sons come before brothers in such matters.

@@jonasb104 Honestly, I believe Turgon was only made High King to stay consistent with the Fall of Gondolin - a story that Christopher Tolkien felt was just too important to change from the original tale. If you think about it, the Fall of Gondolin is the most inconsistent story within the entire canon. It is not near as inconsistent as the original story was in Lost Tales, but as it appears in The Silmarillion, it is still inconsistent compared to every other story. Christopher said The Silmarillion was specifically edited to be consistent with The Hobbit and LOTR. But with the two most important stories, as in dearest to his father's heart - Beren and Luthien and The Fall of Gondolin- inconsistencies were left in. In my mind, Turgon was the one leading the fight against Morgoth after The Fifth Battle, so he was the logical choice to hold the title until Ereinion was ready. But since he was without a male heir, the title would always pass to Ereinion eventually. Or as others have argued below, perhaps the title passed to the eldest male in the House of Fingolfin instead of father to son.