Rafter work is where trade carpenters really earn their keep. Everything has to be so precise if you want to have any hope of using a template. You're doing a lot more than the vast majority DIYers. You'll get a handle on it by the time you're done.

Hello,I am not an expert however there’s a channel called Ken’s Karpentry on You tube and he’s in Vermont and he just recently explained the math for making a rafter with birds mouths. Hope this helps

You are one tough lady. Don’t get discouraged, you’re doing a great job. It’s always tougher trying to figure things out as you go. And please be careful up on your planks. It hurts bouncing off of the floor.

I really admire your work and life attitude. 3 tips for you: 1. If you need template for every rafter, just cut perfect notch to two short scraps, put it on place (top, bottom) and then clamp/screw it to long straight board. Then just trace it to your rafter board. If your template will fit on other places, just trace more boards. Otherwise unclamp/unscrew and repeat. 2. You can fix little twist in rafters: Screw top end (use also some metal brackets), then use wrench with long handle (or F shaped jig screwed from board + 2 scraps) and with your foot on handle (or use ratchet strap on handle) untwist and screw bottom end. 3. This is job for two people, it will be safer, effective and with less effort and frustration. We know you can do it yourself, but that doesn't mean it's good idea.

Hi I enjoy watching you advance your skills in all that you done & learned.luv your Charm the characters , shawn now Shawna 🌹 & foxy Roxy ,an the chest chips hair curls😂, you always figure stuff out,you have a beautiful place to live.an Steve right there Papa Bear 🐻 watching you make the world a better place.🌹

One way to make your rafter pattern would be to tack it in place on the outside of the gable end so it runs long on both ends and trace your ridge beam angle and your birds mouth from your wall's top plate directly onto the rafter. After cutting, use this one to make all the other rafters. You could even use a 2x6 so it's not too heavy.

I can relate to your fur babies being your kids. Your love for them is readily apparent. You are a good person!

I always like to draw it out to scale. This helps lay out my birds mouth without trying to hold it and mark at the same time. You can slip and fall off your scaffold plank when your focused on holding the board in place, make your layout Mark's and video. Be safe.

Hey Michelle Construction tech teacher here. So your plates (horizontal members) need to parallel to each other and straight and level to work out perfectly If they dip or sag you will get gaps. If everything is ok, I would layout the rafters on the plywood deck full scale before trying to fanangle them up high. Just safer all around. If you want I can send you some simple videos on rafter layout and cuts.

You're doing a great job Michelle, I'm sure Steve will tell you that calm waters don't make good sailors 💪🏻. Maybe you need an extra pair of hands to hold a tape measure and plumb line to double check the dimensions then you can use trigonometry to make a template. Lasers are also great for marking out etc. Something always works out after you have slept on it, a good decision to stop for the evening. Take care Michy, that's quite a project you've got going there and it is really coming together.

What I’ve done for rafters is I take a thinner board to use as a pattern. Being lighter, makes it easier to mess around with at higher elevations. Love your videos!

I’m 52 years old ,I own a cabin on the side of a mountain with a very aggressive incline … I just stared watching your channel and I’m so impressed! I’ve moved railroad ties down the mountain to build a retaining wall at the base of my cabin.. and I’m head to tell you we are very unique people lol …I admire your guys drive ☺️🇺🇸

Based on your comments, I apologize if I’ve been too focused on your safety. You obviously know what you are doing and quite aware of risks. Having said that, I do appreciate your wearing safety glasses, good footwear and overall awareness of risks involved. You are an excellent example for girls and young women, embracing and accomplishing things that were stereotypical male jobs. Congratulations for demonstrating the traditional models wrong. Wishing you, Steve and your furry family another blessed week, gentle weather and restful evenings. Peace princess.

Your one lady that's not afraid of nothing you are amazing at everything you do love watching your videos keep up the good work much love from Portland Indiana

You are incredible! Just WOW! You showed up on my feed today and caught me hook line & sinker, now just reeling me in. Fabulous woman! Wish I could jump in and help but not big on heights.😉 All the best. When it's done you will be very proud and we will all be admiring your hard work, sweat and tears.❤

A little tolerance with the cuts are not the end of the world! Keep in mind that it's a cabin buiilt from scratch with self milled lumber, so I think you're doing a great job!

Great work Michelle! This cabin is going to be so awesome when its done! Keep your eye on the prize! 😎🌲

Those eyes are still beautiful, even when you're discouraged. Keep the faith. Purely designed to make you smile. As always, all the best to everyone. Chef Scott 👨‍🍳

You are doing so well. You shouldn’t doubt your beautiful self. Keep up the great work.

You , Are Right Michy We Do Worry About Your Safety. The , Fun Part Is The Figuring Out How It Is Going To Work. You , Are A Very Smart Woman And Just Take Your Time And Enjoy The View. You , Might Want To Step Back And , Look At It In A Different View.

What a beautiful view! Looks like you are figuring it out. You can take a carpenters pencil laid on it's flat side ,on the wall and scribe a line on your rafter to get your cut better on your birds mouth. It looks like you have plenty of room to cut another 1/4 inch off without having too deep a birds mouth. Those heel cuts are going to shrink up some eventually also so sometimes being a bit off won't really matter anyway.

You’re doin OK. You knowledge and abilities are spot on. You are experiencing the tough part of this climb. No worries. You will reach the peak.🧡🧡🧡🧡

A little gap (+ or - 1/4") here and there on the bird mouth joints won't hurt the structural integrity as long as you have a good amount of contact area on the header and ridge. Yeah, it's tough sometimes to get nice straight lumber drying by air, but it looks like you do it the way I would in your shed. Sometimes boards just don't play nice. Don't get too discouraged. Maybe take more time picking out rafter material when you load the truck. And yup. You are worrying us walking the plank up on the cliff! Do you have a couple more you could put up to make a wider platform? Please don't shortcut the safety stuff Michelle. I don't really think you do, guess I'm just a worry wart. You're doing great with that cabin. We all enjoy seeing your progress on it. Be good! Luvya.

The dog is saying I wish she'd stop kissing me I'm trying to sleep. Great video as always. Thanks for sharing your story with us that watch your channel.

Your awesome! You have put more expectations for my next relationship for sure!🙌💥also don’t be hard on yourself! You are a serious good example of a woman in my eyes!

Don’t ever over work yourself. Don’t let any fun be taking out of your objective. Do what you love and you never work a day in your life. Don’t ever jeopardize your health. It looks hard . Doesn’t mean you can’t accomplish your goals. No need to explain anything You do at your pace . Thank you for sharing your journey. On you tube and allowing me to follow and be acknowledged thru messages. Your a real women real life. You got this remember we are privileged to be enjoying your content.

Hello, you truly are an amazing and beautiful woman!! I really enjoy watching and laughing at your relaxed humor.

Loving the dogs tugged at my ❤️. We have 5 and I do the same every day.

Tomorrow is another day. Don't get too discouraged. You've done amazing work! Some days are just a struggle that's all. Sleep well, drink lots of water, you'll be roofing before you know it!! Best Wishes

.... come on baby and do the twist .. oh come on baby .. !! .. Thank you Ms Shell .. very resourceful .. Love Kelly ...!

You enrich my life by being a special and good human being. Thank you for being you. Love you.

Watch one good looking woman building her own home, now KZfaq sends me a whole page of the same Back to tractors, trucks and diesel power Nice work on what you have so far 💯👍

Hang in there. You’ve got this. It’s only a matter of getting the first one done and if your basic structure is plumb and level, the rest will fit into their respective spots. Focus on today’s task………….one rafter. That’s it. That’s all. You’ve got this.

You are very inspiring. I’m in the process of building a 40’ x 60’ shed. Thank you for being safety minded, wish I had that view to work with 👍🏼❤️🇺🇸

You do great work. Turn, sit, enjoy the view. Theres always tomorrow !!1🌲

No matter what others think about how you should do it your doing it not them they probably wouldn't want to be that high up an try to figure out the Birds Mouth. I am sure you will get it and I think you are doing a marvelous job on building a cabin so high up on the side of a mountain Keep up the Great work Michygoss I am sure you will get it right. God Bless you and Be Safe.

You will get it sooner or later, you always do. Probably have to mark each one separately for each position since there are more twists and turns in your lumber, just keep at it.....

Hello again, Tough day for you today. It happens to all of us. I see the air is sultry and hot. Your work ethic is remarkable. Determination and grit. Stay safe. Hope your day ended well. I admire your grit.🌹

The awesomeness continues! We were just in the Kootenays and thought of you. Carry on...you'll get there! 👍😎🇨🇦📷🌲🐾🐾🐾🐾🐾⚘

I think you should tie your bundles more to the front of the stack so the back hangs lower. Then when you tie the hoist rope to the back it should lift the rear and be more level.

Suggestion: instead of having to struggle trying to hold each rafter while you mark it for cutting, fasten a short scrap piece to the end that will act as a hook to hold it over the ridge beam.

Look forward to your videos,your not afraid to do anything,and your great at anything you do,and I love your passion,but as small as you are,and the things you can move and lift,is outstanding,🌹

Cutting rafters is an art on straight lumber. Using warped and twisted lumber is going to need a miracle.

I just saw the uploaded video, about to get my Michy fix got my coffee mug full got box of triscuits about to enjoy this video

Oh Michy Michy wish I was there to give you a hand. But you are such a determined woman and your energy to continue driving forward is such an inspiration to all. No matter what obstacles are placed in front of you, you seem to remove them with ease. Continue forward my friend you got this. God Bless and have a awesome day.

Your ok, twist and curved board can through your cuts off. You may have to live with them being g a little off as long as the plain of the roof is close. Make sure your rise is the same at the bird box cut and the ridge cut and it will work out. You said it, it's not a piano. That's why it's rough fra.ing.

Do your front pair, then rear pair of rafters. String-line reference points for measurements for all the center rafters, as nothing is perfect.

OK, I have been watching you for months now and I finally decided to myself this girl is a hard worker! And I KEEP WATCHING and your not having a good day.. So I thought to myself Im going to tell you "YOU ARE A HARD WORKER"!!! Once you get one rafter the way you want it, all can probably be cut from that rafter. Don't forget cardboard is your friend, your close!!! Bring along a bag of popcorn, maybe some trail mix, a soda. Im pretty sure you got this!!! Peace!!!

Hang in there, that view is amazing, and once your done, winning the battle will be so much sweeter!

Have you considered fitting all the ceiling rafters first. Then pop on a few sheets of chip, or ply board to walk on. Make your ceiling rafters 600mm /24ins centres, and you’ll be safe, and it will be much easier to fit your roof rafters. Be safe lovely.🙂

Brains, Beauty, and Braun. Man she has it all!

When you sling a load , attach your slings close to each ends , you will discover it works better ! It’s a project but I’ve done it , I used a come-along to tension a sky line ! You need a good stable anchor for the Come-Along ! There different methods to attach the end of the Sky line to the Come-Along ! I make a loop like a Molly in the end of the Sky Line ! I don’t know what you have the Sky Line attached to at the bottom but the Come Along needs to pull in line with the Sky Line ! I see you with a lot of talent ! Don’t cry I know you can do it !

You’re such a great doggie mama! Be safe lady!

I absolutely know the feeling! I had no energy and didnt want to do anything a couple of days ago but i still went out and got more done with my project than i expected. Some days you just have to be proud of the small progress. Im impressed how you keep on going. Love your videos and you do a fantastic work. 🙂👍👍

If I remember correctly, your drive to this remote land is about 2 hours. Glad to see your videos and work. You’re an inspiration. Kissing the doggies is special. 🙋‍♂️🐈🐈

When I did mine. Years ago. I leaned all the rafter boards on the ridge board. I used no birds mouth. I precut the 6 12 angle on them to the ridge. Then I also precut a bunch of blocks at 14.5. Put them in a bucket with a rope on it that I could pull up. I also put big braces from the ridge down to the ground with stakes. For support. Then I sat on the ridge and pulled each one up. Blocked them in. Lots of work for sure. For the ends I strung a line at the end. Used a square to cut the tails off for the sub facia. Lots of work for sure. I'm still not 100% done with some of the inside stuff. But looking at something that was built by my 2 hands is very rewarding.

I'm so impressed by your drive and determination! Tackling things outside your knowledge and comfort zone can be tough but in the end can be the most rewarding. I'm sure you figured it out already but, measuring from the top of the ridge edge to the top of the beam edge front and back will tell you how even it is and if running a pattern all of the way through will work. With that measurement, all you need is the distance down your "plumb" mark (vertical level line), to keep the same profile and all of the trusses even for sheathing. Cut some shims since gaps are inevitable with rough cut lumber. =)

Hi there, You’re doing an amazing job, it looks fantastic! For your rafters I may be able to offer some assistance. First you need a sliding bevel so that you can get those angle cuts way more easily, it’s a really cheap tool and should be easy to find. When you make your rafters you can make a pattern rafter to use as a template for the others as long as your top plate of your walls are level, parallel and square to each other, also the ridge needs to be level & square, you probably already know this no doubt looking at your work but it’s important to note non the less. When making your pattern rafter, rather than holding the rafter up in the air and trying to get the cuts right (which is almost impossible from experience, I’m surprised how well you’ve managed to do it considering the difficulty of doing it that way), instead use a measuring tape to measure from the top outside edge of your wall (top plate) where your birds mouth cut will be up to the top edge of your ridge beam where the long point of your rafter cut will be, use this measurement down on the ground to mark your rafter measuring from the ridge long point cut down to the internal corner of your birds mouth, your birds mouth should be no more than 1/3 of the total depth of your rafter. To get the angle of your cuts, there are many ways to do it. You can draw a section of your roof on a piece of paper to scale with the accurate height and width of the structure, then use your sliding bevel to transfer the angles of your cuts onto your timber. Another way is to screw a vertical piece of timber to the outside of your top plate and mark the top of your rafter on it, then run a string line from that mark up to the top of your ridge, then use your sliding bevel on the string line and angle it to get your vertical cut angle either at the top at the ridge or down at the top plate, which you can use to transfer onto your rafter, then use a square to get your birds mouth level cut from the vertical cut angle you got from the bevel. If your timber structure that you are fixing your rafters to has been exposed to the elements for extended durations then it may warp, cup, bow, shrink etc. so it may be difficult to accurately make a pattern rafter that will suite all your rafters equally. It may be easier to measure the length of each rafter separately as noted above and use your sliding bevel to cut each rafter to size for more accuracy. Hope this helps 😘

Oh My Gosh! The view from atop your construction…so beautiful! Great work lady!

i love all the hearts on the helpful comments lol - idk if this will make sense but there probably is a host of woodworking people here willing to explain it better, i havent really tackled large diy prah-jects let alone a professional but i saw that you used the circular saw to make cuts on the flat plane of the lumber where you would have to finish each cut off with a hand saw, sometimes its unavoidable but there are some cuts that if you turn the lumber 90 degrees and cut on the short path at the right depth you can save yourself the handsaw finish for that edge. a small technical observation that i hope makes sense and is helpful! we are all impressed and wish the best for you and your projects

Safety is through experience and self confidence! That's life.

Mam your doing a great job. A lot of folks tend to forget that when your working on rafters you have to decide how deep the birds mouths will be. Now measure the distance from the inside of the top birds mouth to the inside corner of the bottom birds mouth along a line nomore than half the width of your rafters. At the bottom allow however much overhang you want and at the top the horizontal cut will be half the width of your ridge beam. Before you start measure half the width of the cabin (A squared) and the height of the king stud plus the ridge beam.( B squared). So according to the Pythagoras theorem, A squared plus B squared = C squared - divided by the square rout = the distance from inside the notch to inside the notch- along the line set 1/3 the width of the board, allowing more strength for snow load. That's the length of the rafters. All that math should be done before you climb a ladder. A good carpenters square should have all these calculations on them, plus the pitch. Great build and I like your inside point of view on the saw mill. I'm just about to buy my first mill. I was fortunate, in the early 60s I was trained by an old world Italian carpenter & cabinet maker. He taught me how to do this stuff while building homes. Keep well and God bless.

Some people will say the dogs are so lucky to have you and that might be true but clearly all the dogs really love you so really it could be said that that you are the real lucky one 😁.

Looks like it was one of those days. It might not feel like it, but you really are kicking butt out there. You know that one bad day doesn't mean that every day will be like this. That's something I need to keep reminding myself, too.

Trying to be a perfectionist with imperfect lumber just won't work. Especially working with roof framing. Something you might want to consider is to make a two piece rafter as a pattern. Make each piece a foot or so longer than needed so they overlap. Put in a couple of temporary screws so it can be adjusted and used as a pattern for each of your rafters. They will probably all be different. Keep your square and level in the shed. Just an idea, I'm confident you will figure it out. And I have to admit, I look forward to each of your episodes of conquering your world! ;)

You have done a brilliant job on your own, I know you will work it out and have the cuts that you want, please don't worry about the first ones.

Your progress and perseverance is to be envied. May I suggest a widow’ walk about 6 feet above the roof peek. Access would need to be from the hillside behind the cabin. What a place to read a book. Good luck.

So, we should begin to think about a harness. I like that you repurpose things that you replaced. The sand filter should make a really good water collection tank.

You'll find the solution, & you will be so happy! Not being a carpenter, I don't have the magic solution. Sometimes simple tools, like a plumb bob & an angle finder, may help you out, & they don't need batteries to operate.

You are a real go getter, I like the fact that, when things go wrong, you take time to figure it out and get it done. Your husband is a very lucky man. By the way, you have beautiful eyes, they really stand out. thanks for sharing.

U r exquisite. U will succeed and look amazingly, unspeakably beautiful doing so

"In Theory" reminded me of this quip: In theory, theory and practice are much closer together than in practice. ;)

Well I thought about it.. run a tight cord/string and use the protractor on it and the beam measure the angle. that'l work for sure to get your notch right. Cant wait to see this progress more and it's such a beautiful spot and lake I wish I was there. Glad you are sharing your views with us !

Wow my hat off to you you our amazing if that’s a bad day for you I can’t even build a rabbit box without them escaping you our amazing

My first feeling was that a wanted to take 4 more weeks of vacation and go and help you! Then you filmed when walking up on those beems, and then i hade to close my eys because my fear of heights was making me feel dizzy... 🥴🤣❤️🇸🇪

You're doing okay love, don't get discouraged you'll get it and you know that, so the main thing is, is safety. don't ever forget to be safe. about what you're doing or you won't get to do it, have fun and good luck.

A friend of one of my brothers(same Mom & Dad) had a dream. On weekends, holidays, sick days & any day of the week that ended in day, he built a log cabin in rural Ohio. The cabin turned out way better than he expected so he sold his business in the city & started building log cabins all over the USofA & Canada, while receiving free advertising via the internet. Needing help one year he had difficulty finding an employee with experience & also being able to travel for longer periods of time than ones average 9to5 grind. So a door opens for urs truly-but urs truly had issues in the past with drink & such & a reputation that went along with that type of life style & a reputation i did have! So being completely reluctant to hire the old hippie (hippy) me, i had to call in a favor from my older brother who was good friends with Mr Lincoln log builder(fore score & 7 yrs ago)(who said that Shakespeare?) to do some persuading for younger brother. That be me. Timing was in my favor re: i happened to be off of the fun stuff including a driver license in my pocket. Badly needing an employee Mr log cabin builder (not Lincoln) (not Ford either) hired me on. My first cabin i was paid $15 an hr This was back in 2010. Cabin #2 my wages increased to $250 a day & cabin #3 i was given a third of the business!! A third in his pocket & a third for the business. U kno expenses & such. Cabin#4 i was fired. Did i learn a lot? No. Remember? i was fired! im kidding. Yes i did! i caught on to carpentry like stink on s***, like breasts on a chicken like...well u get the idea. My point is--i dont really have a point--i just like talking about building log cabins. i like building them even more. Hello & good nite from the big city Cincinnati Ohio✌️

I love how you kiss your dogs goodbye. I do it all the time.

Some of this stuff you are doing is best done with 2 people and you are tackling it on your own I am impressed with all you have done and also Steve and his knowledge of things a lot have no idea of. Be Careful being by yourself you get hurt not a good deal.

First of all, you're a badass, and I have total faith in your ability to make all things right. That said, a bit of advice: You can measure and mark all day, and be really good at it, and still wind up with a lot of variation. The key is to remove steps in the process. Set your rafter board in place, then take a straight edge of the width you want to cut into the rafter. Lay it on top of the ridgepole, make a mark across the top of your straightedge, then on the side of the ridgepole and make a mark straight up along the straight edge, flush with the edge of the ridgepole. This is called "live marking" and eliminates measure and math errors, as well as errors that arise from variations in the wood itself.

Hey sunshine great seeing you and your project. Just bought a new chainsaw! Who knew that you can only get 30 years from the poulan pro, but it had to go. The new saw is a Stihl 271. Been putting off cutting down the dead ash trees but no more excuses now that I have a great saw. Safety first! Be safe and happy. Keep on keeping on!

That View is amazing! Great job! don't worry about those detail so much. It will never be perfect. Nail it up and be done!

That's amazing spot u hav. I luv that view. You do great

Always challenges girl,I know you will figure it out.Be safe and have a good drink its looking great.

Onwards and upwards. I really enjoy your work.

I love the way you repurpose! You’re awesome!

I adore the way you treat your pets, just the way all animals should be treated. Also wanted to say you are so dedicated and tough ..just amazing

Haha, I was going to call my construction company, "Homes For Spiders" You got it... :)

You guys have some great ( dusty ) Sacred Grounds !! Indeed, when you're out to do things right'n tight all day.... and that dang pitch is hiding somewhere right in front of you to throw you off dead center.... uhhh !!! them sneaky pitches can rack your nerves every time !! Good thing you're the Captain to make sure things turn out right and Good thing is aint no one being insulting of any faults, something good may turn up out of it, nature works in mysterious ways. Maybe good live entertainment for BigFoot and another good vid for us. Thanks D-

You're so tender with your doggies...you're a neat one!

We all have bad days and that is part of life, the good thing is to overcome those obstacles and I think you have that ability to fight, not only for this problem but for any problem that life gives you. And my advice is a Chinese proverb, if your problem has a solution, why worry? And if the problem you know has no solution, why worry? Greetings Michelle and strength!!

some days nothing works right i have trouble with birdsmouths too. take care, be safe and well.

Ok, old carpenter, here. The easiest way for you to get a perfect rafter is going to be attaching a board to the side of the plate, flush along the end of the structure, and mark it from the king to the plate, in place. Hmmm...First, strike a line along the path of the bottom of the rafter, on the outside of the structure, on the uphill side of the cabin. Using that line tack a couple pieces of scrap to the outside, one at the top flush to the bottom of the line, and one at the bottom, again, flush to the bottom of the line, along the plate. Then, tack your rafter board to the framing, sitting on top of your scrap blocks. Now, you can mark both birdsmouths exactly where they fit. Once you have the first one, you can move it along the plate and check to see if your rafters need to be different lengths. I hope I was clear- the main point is that if you do it on the outside, then the existing framing doesn't get in the way of marking.

You’ll git er done...........can’t wait til next time❤️Ware gloves

Michelle, You are AWESOME. I am so glad that you built a platform; and you are working with material that is a lot lighter than the beams that you were erecting. When I read the title, I could only think that you took to heart my concern and suggestion that I sent. I'm sure others may have, also; but I am laying claim.. Smile. Thank you for sharing. All the Best. Cheers! Blue Skies! Faithfully, James

You are absolutely amazing... Those joints look real tough to get right.. Thankyou so much for Sharing your Journey with us, this Build is Wonderful to me... Baruch Hashem Adonai Yahuah Elohim

Years ago we stopped NOTCHING lumber. Reason is the remaining material becomes your span size which is less than what it should have been. This is why hangers were invented. Prolly not that big a deal for what your building but just a little educational moment I thought I’d share. Keep up the good work.

I'm happy to help... What a view of the water and mountains!!

I am full of respect for your activity but keep on courage. As we say here ""Paris has not be build in one day and more without mistake". Bon courage Madame, stay safe .

Well, Michy, things are coming together well, but not without some efforts.. The simplest way to mark birdsmouth, to my knowledge, is to put a rafter as it is on the corner of the ridge beam and side beam. Clamp it or use a nail to hold it temporarily. Then cut the vertical angle on the ridge first. Once it's cut, center it on the beam, take a ruler or level or whatever you have and lean it on the side of the ridge beam and mark the internal vertical line (ridge beam side vertical elongation line)repeat on the side beam. Then, according to your birds mouth depth, put on the ridge beam horizontally a piece of desired thickness and mark the horizontal line on top of the "thickness". Repeat for side and you'll be left with perfect cutouts. 😇 Works every single time, no measurement needed, except if the beams are mostly crooked. In that case, mark and cut rafters one by one on the spot. You're great, besides, who wants to be perfectly safe?! I like to live it dangerous, you probably too, just a little. Be safe enough to keep yourself safe and avoid medical setbacks and bills.. If you do it and no one is missing or K.i.a., it's ok. 😁Cheers, keep on.