“Mandatory to live without a sense of self-respect “ 😭😢

I learned to freeze and fawn due to the rage. It’s so hard to undo as an adult. I feel like it’s harmful especially if victims attract other abusers/Narcs in present time.

I hold my breath a lot. Narcissist rage is no joke. My mom would always be offended that my brother would run and hide behind his bedroom door if she suddenly burst in the room. She would say "why does he do that - I'm not scary". I was one of five kids and each of us would look for escape routes when my mom was raging. We had to exit carefully and slowly one by one hoping not to become the narcs target. We didn't get hit a lot but the threats were constant. A couple years ago my mom recalled a proud moment when she broke every dish in the house when she was mad at my father. All of us kids were so scared that we huddled together at the end of our long driveway by the mailbox. Even though we were far we could hear her screams and breaking of dishes. We didn't have neighbors close by so the momster could get away with it. When my mom recalled this story I cut off her and told her she shouldn't be proud and she traumatized her children who were scared and standing by the road. Fight or flight - I had the fight where I would stand up to her, she wore me down in middle school. I had flight sometimes. But eventually most of the kids assumed Freeze since we were trapped in her presence and we were not allowed to leave. I finally went no contact after 5 years of low contact with a brief period of trying to "fix" things. Not possible.

Jay, I have watched EVERYONE who does vids on Narc and Codependency. Yours are my favorite. So clear, concise, and true. Thank you for doing these. They have been very healing for me and (I'm sure) many others. JR

I find your videos extremely insightful. This one was especially helpful! I am 27 years old, and have struggled with shame a lot over the years over how often I've used/still use the freeze/submit response in regard to situations involving my narcissistic family/family of origin. I really appreciated how you were able articulate a way to view these responses through a lense of strength instead of through a lense shame and self loathing.👍🙂⭐

It’s as if you were right along side me my whole childhood. Thank you for these videos!

What I appreciate most in your work is your willingness to state clearly just what an abyss of virtually hopeless suffering narcissistic abuse is for a helpless child. When I was a child.i used to search for accurate descriptions of situations

Thank you for your obvious compassion for those who have went through such a touchy subject. This message was well received. 🖤

It wasn't fun being scapegoated as a child, backhanded slaps were the norm for disobeying ever changing rules, answering back was insolence, a word which I despise to this day. Not answering back was a sign of accepting guilt, crying the same, not crying was defiance, another slap. The physical punishment only stopped when I outgrew my adopted parents. This was followed by ridicule, I was lanky , out of proportion, clumsy. If I didn't laugh with them, I had no sense of humour. If I laughed or told a funny story , I had a warped sense of humour. If I countered with some external validation, they both played the victim, Mother would even cry, according to them I was accusing them of lying and then they could counter by saying people were feeling sorry for me, they didn't care 2 hoots and I should stop seeking external validation. But just visiting my friends and their parents taught me that normal family relationships could exist. I left home at 18 to join the army, to my surprise I was never singled out and military training is designed to produce tough alpha males. When I returned occasionally on leave, the put downs and ridicule just didn't have the same effect.

Great breakdown of the cause & effect. A little kid is all alone, so true. Freeze & submit....must be hard-wired, yes....as an adult, you have to dig out that bullshit that has become part of your reflexive/default behavior. I can see millions of adults just acting out the freeze/submit roles in their adult relationships, and not seeing what is happening. Its like Stockholm Syndrome. The person says and spins and tries to create euphemisms for their self-deprecating behavior: "Im not naive, Im just kind to others" etc. It is a sickening thing to behold, and adult who has repressed all this and spins it into something positive. My mother is the typical example. Self-loathing/no self-confidence/no self-esteem....as a young boy I hated hearing her say "I dont know who I am...." or "I think I am flawed....some people are just flawed..." and always looking for a pity party. At 9 years old, I didnt know what to do or say, I always felt so sorry for her, she was so weak and unable to break out of her melancholy shell. But if you accused her of weakness, of lack of self-esteem, she would become nasty and say "How dare you say that! YOu dont know me! DOnt you dare mistake gentleness for weakness!" etc.... A tough nut to crack. I went no contact in 1995. Both parents were narcissists, unable to bond with us in any adult, meaningful, sincere way.....unable to express real, daily affection, physically and emotionally. At 56, Im still battling the emptiness and melancholy.

I am afraid of my toxic family members. I definitely wouldn’t want to face my psychopath narc mother or psychopath narc brother all by myself in the woods or on a lonely street. Because I know they would love to kill me. I always say my psychopath narc brother is a “Chris Watts”. I don’t think my narc sister and my mothers narc husband would ever kill anyone.

This was profound. Now I see why as an adult, if someone crosses a boundary or shows me disrespect, I can’t speak up. Like I’ve suddenly gone mute and feel so taken aback that I can’t think of what words to use, let alone get them out, as if I’m choked up. I’m not good at fight, because I always lose, I should try to make a conscious effort to just walk away, which is flight, but my goal would ideally be to call the person out on how they overstepped, even if I don’t win, and get backlash. After it’s all over and I’m back home, I get really down on myself for my lack of assertiveness, and think, why didn’t I tell him/her _____? I think of the rebuttal when it’s too late. But this video explains why I typically freeze when confronted. But it does me no good at this stage of life, and emotionally cripples me.

This is simultaneously intensely difficult and validating to hear ! So, Ugh and Thank you 🙏☺️ ❣️

I spent nearly every holiday and burthday in my room until I left home, because there was always an "offensive" remark I made, or look, or tone. I absolutely dreaded them, and continued for 30 more years. The fear was so overwhelming, I felt I would come apart. I went under the covers and was as silent and small as I coild be.

Thank you so much How incredibly brave and strong scapegoats truly are.

This is a great video. As a scapegoat of a rageaholic narcissistic abusive father, I relate to this very much. The only escape I got was when I moved out and went NC. Best decision I have ever made. I used to feel a type of pride at being able to consciously remove myself mentally from the situation, I know that as freeze now. Felt like I was numbing myself so that I could just make it through his rages. it is amazing how much pain and verbal abuse you can take in that state. Humans are truly resilient.

Thank you...the Narc's rage and tounglashing me...I stared innher eyes and dissociated. Fid not really listen what she was screaming and I had no respect for her anyway.Sometimes my lack of response let her start hitting me against the head..pulling hair..sometimes scratching..kicking. Sorry to say I hated her from the depth of my soul.Got out there aged 17

I am new here. The amount of things I've learnt by watching the videos for less than a week is astounding. Thank you for sharing ❤

I was in "freeze" mode my entire childhood. What a way to grow up! :(

Our mother raged at us *- every - single - day*

Thank you for such a clear delivery of the topic. It helps to understand my ex and his rages. He would tell our ten yr old to grow up and constantly pick on him. Just like his father did to him. No empathy or insight just alcohol to self sooth his guilt. There is no even though playing ground with an npd person. You just have to leave.

Thank you for this series! This really helped me understand myself better even in adulthood.

Thankyou so much for your content. It is helping me get educated. You are a wonderful speaker!

This was a wonderful revelation! I’m feeling strong and validated. ❤️

I have felt bad that I stuffed and minimized so much of myself in order to survive the abuse and bullying. I mourn the losses. But...here I am. I'm still standing and relatively whole because I did what I did instinctively for self-preservation. Sometimes parts of oneself get sacrificed in the survival process. But I survived. To be able to come out of that abuse fairly whole is a type of superpower. 💪👊💥

I would like to see Jay do a video on how to avoid becoming an abuser oneself and how to mend aspects of relationships with the children who were negatively affected by the adult victim's issues, such as being the child of a mother who is scapegoated in her family and the lack of respect that they witness the family showing to their mother, and the mother's inability to control her own rage at moments, and knowing that your mother constantly identifies as a victim...........Jay says the victim learns to live without a sense of self-respect. How does a mother in this condition get respect from her children? She doesn't.

Thank you again for so incredibly and clearly explaining this. Beautifully clarified and made easy to understand and identify in one's own story. I'm sure that you are a tremendous therapist. Extremely insightful and helpful. Thank you.

Thank you for acknowledging my child self! Thank you for this amazing, healing video. Thank you dear Jay so much!

Thanks so much Dr . Reid for being so compassionate and insightful! I can't tell you how much your message meant to me. The shame, the vivid fear induced by my mother 's rage, the despair... Your message is so comforting and validating!

Outstanding summary! I was the scapegoat of 2 parents who periodically went into rages. After trying many times unsuccessfully to run away or demand better treatment from my caregivers I settled into the freeze response. Furthermore, I eventually fully adopted an attitude of inferiority to reduce the frequency and severity of attacks.

Because of my disability I got! Alot of narcissistic rage from my dad who's a narcissistic sociopath, U see he was always good with his hands ( mechanically inclined) but I wasn't due to my disability even though my hands look normal but I don't have the hand dexterity & speed like everyone else. Even though I've tried various things though out my life to improve etc I'm not able to get any better or be able to work with my hands and do any kinds of trade ( plumbing carpentry etc ) .That's pissed my dad off even to this day he'll bring it up in an angry rage. Saying I'm worthless, lazy can't hold down any good paying jobs etc. Over the years he's even got my family members to believe in his beliefs etc. So not only do I have endured a narcissistic relationship with my father but from my entire family members. That I've gotten their rage from time to time because of how my disability affects my daily life etc I've been in therapy for the past few years which helped me diagnose the problems I deal with along with videos like these that have also helped as,well. Thanks for ur insight, inspiration for helping us & to know we're not alone going thru these problems in our lives

I would love to hear your insights into rage that doesn't manifest as yelling or violence but as interrogation, criticism, shaming and "disappointment"

Thank you.

What about kids who can neither freeze nor submit and have no choice but to be combative? In a similar way the coping mechanism of being defensive and arrogant became a perceived ingrained part of my personality that needs to be acknowledged and released. My question is how do I do that? Just choosing to be humble in all situations rather than being combative? Is there a likelihood that less damage was done to my psyche because of my defensiveness? Obviously I still have a lot of fear and lack of trust in myself despite how hard I fought.

Thank you so much for this video, not only so validating but also very helpful for building self-esteem after being abused for so long

When you use the words sadistic & malignant it validates the behavior, therefore I KNOW I’m not alone in my thoughts. Thank you!

Yes - every one of your videos are very useful - Very helpful to clarify and help one understand what has happened To them.

I can attest to having to adapt to an adopted sibling with a psychological disorder. I am a firm believer in education in the matters of adoption. Especially when it comes to integrating a severely mentally malignant child in a home with a mentally healthy child. I believe, also, that is a form of child abuse to expect a healthy child to be exposed to an out of control child on a daily basis. Mentally healthy children have rights too. It's always just more convenient for the family to say " We'll see" what happens and turn a blind eye. Anxiety and cptsd is what happens when this is allowed to be enabled. And it can show up years later. Mental and psychological abuse is serious. I consider it physical assault since it affects the mind. The inner workings of the brain. I, now, would have emancipated myself if I'd had someone, anyone who had cared about what was really going on and seen the insanity that was truly happening. Because I was adopted as well. My heart goes out to anyone suffering with this manipulation. It's a crime and a shame that no one should ever Have to put up with. And it seems this is going on at an alarming rate in our society.

Dr Reid, Could you please do a video on that silent rage,... That cold fury type rage? Many of us didn't get this outward rage by our pillar parents who had reputation to protect w the external community. We kids got cold silence. Terrifying cold silent rage that the eggshell walking was non stop. Silent fury but the identical repurcussions the same as an outward rager. Then we victims would react eventually w bouts of rage from the abuse degredation or neglect. Then worse, we'd get accused of being the abusive child for losing our crap..

Very insightful. It helps me see how very trapped I was back then. I'm glad to be free from their tyranny.

Really important insight ... that the child's poor self-belief was perversely ADAPTIVE in childhood, insofar as the belief facilitated/invoked the Freeze/Fawn survival strategy. If the child hadn't taken on the negative self-beliefs, he/she may not have actually survived the narcissistic rage episodes.

Jay, I used to "submit" to survive with my spouse who was a psychotherapist and very convincing. But in it, I developed the response to overly apologize, put myself down (verbally) such that to me, it "proved" he was wrong, cruel, etc., BECAUSE he agreed. To him, the hyperbole was not exaggerated. He thought I really was that bad. But it sort of validated me (though still was destructive to my psyche over time).

Wait til that kid gets older and the aging parent has an angry adult on his/her hands. It'll be a whole different story. The narc parent will be running away. Such cowards.

How conscious are they that they are abusing a child like this?

This is beautiful thank you again

Another great and helpful video thank you. No tigers in Africa though!

You definitely understand and describe my story.

Thank you so much

SO helpful, thank you!

wow havent seen a video on that topic, it really helped thank you!

Thank you

Thanl you for sharing Jay

I just realized that a website I have visited many times is also yours! So glad I found you on KZfaq!

ThNk you

Narcissists are individuals that are in denial of seeking therapy they only see their target in their path, its disturbing

Lions and Tigers analogy is interesting. The narcissists will rage then comes the nicey nice behavoir, then rage, then back to nicey nice behavoirs and back to their anger again. The narcissist thrive on the targets to conform to the rage and anger.

Omg, you just described what happened to my son…TY

Fight. Flight. Yes but don’t forget the other 3 responses to n rage: fawn, fix and fake it. / all symptoms of codependency that we owe it to ourselves to see, grieve and grow beyond.

Narcissistic partners are predators: they carefully select their prey. They don’t prey on people with strong healthy boundaries. Similarly narcissistic parents often unwittingly predators. They carefully prepare their prey by raising kids who lack healthy boundaries. Ultimately the adult child of a narcissist hast to decide to remain victim of a narcissistic abuse for their lifetime or develop healthy boundaries and suffer the consequences of distancing themselves from they dis-ease of their narcissistic parents . Jay you ought to say more am to help us own how we got into this mess to begin with…. Whether as children or partners if narcissisticly disordered people.

Frontstage behaviour/ backstage behaviour

I raged at my daughter but can’t remember.

Someone in authority narcissist rager

Huh? Lions, antelopes? How about your partner screaming at you for no damn reason? The activating principle here is there is no reason, or prevention, of this abuse. Oh, and never an explanation or apology afterwords. It’s subjugation and domination for the enjoyment of the abuser.

Brian Laundrie felt plenty of narcissistic rage. Narcissists are very unstable, and violence-prone.

Ragers select their targets

Your cute 😍