Its not about IHOPKC , its about devil using mike name to crafted missconception.. Ahead is 2024... focus on ur own annointing and fellowship among body of CHRIST ministries

As I understand it the third party the advocate group proposed had a conflict of interest because the lead attorney also represented the lead member of the advocate group. IHOP is asking for an independent third party to establish the facts.

I posted this after you. Questions: is IHOPKC paying Lathrop GPM? Will you release that engagement letter? What are the areas of practice of the lawyers and investigators Lathrop assigned to this case? Have they done this type of investigation with a Christian ministry before? Did the professing victim and her attorney agree to use this law firm as the investigator? If they did not, then why would you expect them to? I'm sure you and IHOPKC are sincere, but you use language that paints the "victim" in a negative light because they won't agree to cooperate with who you engaged. Lawyering up is not the usual way or the preferred way. I know because I've been involved in this process multiple times. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6, "When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers?" Your law firm is well known and does not promote Christian values, in fact, it is the exact opposite. This should be IHOPKC'S investigation into Mike Bickle. It is an in-house investigation. Mike has said that spiritually he is in submission to IHOPKC leadership. The "victim" is under her husbands headship, and neither one is submitted to IHOPKC, so therefore are under no scriptural responsibility to submit to the process you have decided you want. The process goes like this: The leaders go to Mike and ask questions based on the allegations. Mike's answer should be yea or nay. If the brothers going have spiritual discernment, then they should know whether Mike is telling the truth. If Mike lies, then as Peter said to Ananias, and his wife Sapphira, "You have not lied to man but to God.”

Both sides need their own lawyers. Each lawyer serves one side only! Later perhaps both lawyers can negotiate/settle without too much cost. Administer polygraph to fine tune Truth and eliminate false testimony

@@thesnootyfoxyou seem to have it all figured out, they should hire you!

@@thesnootyfox why would the advocate group refuse to put the allegations on record via sworn affidavit. The onus is on the advocate group to provide the evidence even if it is only a sworn affidavit. TRR articles and allegation packages are not evidence until someone swears them in, why is it so hard to do that seeing how they’ve already taken their complaints public, seems fishy to me.

100 💯 YES & AMEN!!!!

Yes, yes, yes and Amen! Are they doing this on purpose? They couldn't possibly be stupid enough otherwise.

They should be the sec they accuse. They don’t get to dictate how it’ll be investigated

Prince, why not?

Ruth, how do we know they didn’t ask first. The AG keeps not cooperating. They want GRACE and it’s a conflict of interest.

Interesting how Jesus came claiming he would divide families tho at the same time. True peace only comes through the truth not a false peace like the world where you just don’t rock the boat to keep everyone quiet.

Yes! I hate when scripture is used to gaslight. @@CalebMcLellan

Sometimes victims have emotions. Do you not know that. Does God have emotions? Is rightness indignation not allowed in your concept of Christianity? Is anger at evil wrong? Why does scripture say, be angry and sin not. Let not the sun go down upon your wrath? Can you back up your statement? Thanks.

Not involving their emotions? Then Jesus shouldn't have been so ticked off dealing with the Temple being defiled? So, smooth-talking, "non-emotional" types automatically command respect and trust? Boy, howdy, you wanna rethink that and real quick?

@@john4226 - Amen.

no, where there is no strife of tongues or reproach or emotional witchcraft. I'm not a prosecutor or a defender in this case. Or a social media judge. I can interceed for the guilty and the innocent without my emotions its based on the 2 immutable parts of the covenant, the Mercy and the truth have been performed. @@machtnichtsseimann

It's just you bro! Don't worry

@@jobb3010 --- not worrying bro, just defending the church as the Holy Spirit is steering my wheels and thoughts - on this highly complex, albeit disproportionately, extremely chaotic and damaging situation being PLAYED ✌ Thanks bro

@@donkoh5738 I am defending the church, as well. That's why I think that commenting about this situation in a way that creates more confusion and damage is even worse than someone's sins from more than 20 years ago. I think IHOPKC is managing this case really well. I think they do want the truth to come to light and that they are doing their best.

@@jobb3010 -- absolutely, I feel both You and I are equally doing whatever we can on social media chat boards such as this to *'defend the church'* in this insanely chaotic time of destructive turmoil ... We both do this, even if we completely disagree in the methods and possibly, even the ultimate outcome of this chaos? That said, this so-called *David House Agency* group, should have absolutely had it's own separate KZfaq channel in making any such further chaos-stirring 'updates' ! Whereby, in using the IHOPKC worship channel to updaye, it's only been adding to spiritual warfare and body blows. Not helpful to the church, via it's worldly legal action minded distractions. Thanks. To God be the glory. Blessed are the Peacemakers ✌

Toney still would’ve been offsides 😂😢

😂

Where are the elders in this situation. They seem to have abdicated their role completely….

You know…

Because they want to keep the machine going. A full report would be too damaging.

@@kingdomrevolutionwithmarkw9851 Praying for IHOP and the advocate group to find a 3rd party that both sides feel comfortable and have peace working with.

Agree! There are actions that don’t technically break a law but disqualify one from ministry, above reproach! Thats why a specialised christian org would be best

Because "abuse" is when you use your power and influence to silence or hurt other people. And that is a crime. Jesus and Christians all around the world have been, should be and will be subject to human laws whenever, wherever, except that Jesus comes. And that has not yet taken place. We could say the same about the Vatican and their own Heaven minded laws, which happen to protect child abusers all around the globe. Not more than a work from the flesh, as Calvin and Luther would agree to say and we all should be aware of. We do NOT have nor DESERVE a special treatment, nor our criminals! We are still human after all!!

This question right here is the reason for most of the miscommunications and misunderstandings. One group asked for biblical mediation, the other group responds by lawyering up and trying to go through legal process when no legal threats were made. . . This was never a legal issue, but an accusation of sin. Why not actually do the biblical process? Why bring in unbelieving law firms that can’t recognize sin? What does that accomplish in eternity. Sorry for the allegory but There are two different “games” being played here so it’s hard to cooperate. Advocate group is accused of “not playing ball” when advocate group never wanted to play baseball but to sit inside and work on a jigsaw. Ihop is standing outside saying “why don’t you pick up your bat”. And the other group is sitting inside waiting for the other to sit at the table. . . So things can be unpacked. This needs biblical mediation, not legal arbitration. Two completely different sports. Two completely different spirits- one pretty much completely secular and one (attempting-though not totally perfectly) to be biblical. . . We have to lean towards the biblical process- that’s a command, not an optional thing. . . But yea

@@diegoblaster3 You miss my point. I was not suggesting that there is no legal case to be answered. I was suggesting that the bar for being disqualified from ministry is much lower than the one for proving criminality.

@@jmkqfnvyl87 There may be a legal component as well but I agree with your premise: Spiritual leaders should determine whether Mike Bickle is fit for ministry and the lawyers and courts can determine whether there has been a crime.

Is the advocate group paying? They don’t get to dictate. They failed to release proof. Everything they said turns until now to be half true

Thank you for this comment. Appreciate the pushback because many do not understand.

@@princesadearuba if IHOP kc wanted to do the right thing they would have gotten a group that was approved by both parties. I don’t blame Jane Doe for feeling uncomfortable going to a lawyer, who has experience defending organizations from sexual misconduct. The interests of that lawyer are to benefit IHOP Kc, not to be impartial. Another thing, we have heard no promise that any findings or report will be released in its entirety. IHOPKC will have first access to it, and they will redact whatever they want to.

Why do you say the evidence shouldn’t be released to attorneys? Does the evidence change if it is released? No. The evidence remains the same, releasing it to the opposing party council is going to be required when/if this goes to court. Which is probably where it is headed if the advocate group doesn’t begin to show some kind of evidence for why they have made these accusations. Otherwise it is pure slander, and many will wonder what their motive was, what did they wish to gain? If it was nothing but pure malice, then they are guilty of malicious harm.

⁠@@valeriefargas6974I think it's because of the history of the third-party investigator. They could easily release a report saying that no wrongdoing was found since they have represented/defended corporations against sexual abuse allegations in the past. They are well-trained in defense against sexual abuse allegations. That may make it difficult for them to be impartial. The advocate group requested Christian non-profit third-party investigators. So, beyond being impartial, they may also want to be sure all Biblical steps are taken first.

from what i see and read, most people are not about taking sides. It's about the Truth, and they want the truth to come out. Justice IS Love. IHOP's focused should be taking care of sexual predators and rapists before thinking about praying for Israel

Would you be saying that if your daughter was one of the women involved?

*biased well done

The hired “3rd party” has posted and bragged about how they defended and won clergy allegations of sexual abuse. No potential victims will divulge their testimonies with iHop hiring attorneys who are monetarily obligated to defend ihop… it’s not a true 3rd party investigation which any potential victims would feel safe. I feel so frustrated with this deception and continued talk about how “it’s all on the advocates” to cooperate. Lord have mercy!

@@whowho8470 the boasting is found directly on the attorney’s own website actually. You can find it there.

​@@michellemyers4219 the third party is hired to defend IHOP? I would hope IHOP pays for the third party investigation. Someone needs to and it's good they are. Otherwise you're wanting the alleged victim to pay for it?

@@joshuagrant6030 Are you sure? Volz did not specify whether the firm’s clergy sex abuse investigations were conducted on behalf of alleged abusers or on behalf of alleged victims. “have no doubt this firm well-represents organizational defendants in sexual abuse litigation. However, it cannot be all things to all people. It cannot represent and defend institutional clients in such cases and then turn around and invite reported sexual abuse victims to meet with you and trust you. It simply doesn’t work that way.” Boz Tchividjian In fact, Lathrop boasts several different examples on its own website that it leans more to defend accused than victims of clergy sexual abuse. If iHop pays for the defense, THAT is what the focus will be in the investigations. No victim will cooperate with that, nor should they!

@@michellemyers4219 Sounds like IHOPKC is manipulating things to get MB off the hook. If that's true, that's very dishonest and a slap in the face to the victims.

Boom! Truth Bomb

I think Henry Ford is like dead. If not, I'd like to talk to him about my F-150. It's like I was victimized or something. I know it's a 2003 and it's been 20 years. But the pain is still real.

@@charlespackwood2055 Lol I meant when he was still alive and active in the org, hence "position changed within the company for a few years" - not died decades ago, you silly goose! Nissan is the way to go btw

@@migrantson Yeah, I like Nissin's ramen noodles.

@@kingdomrevolutionwithmarkw9851 Why are you addressing this in legal terms? This is a sin issue in the church. No legal threats were made. An appeal ti biblical mediation was made. The other group asked for Christian mediation using a group “like Grace” or “like guideposts” or another national church governance as third party with freedom to investigate and publish findings. . . Ihop responds by lawyering up, advocates who were in the process of seeing if Grace would be willing to step in to mediate hear that ihop has lawyered up and-having only talked to one org that has a lawyer must suddenly ask him to represent them cause it seems like things might progress through legal process suddenly instead of the biblically prescribed process. That part of the timeline seems to be missing. . .

Can I ask why you believe we are covering for Mike? Staff member of 11 years here, I’ve seen nothing like that.

@@JIMLAS65 I’ve reviewed both the ELT timeline and the 52 page document timeline - they are consistent, not sure what that proves. Have you gone to the ELT and spoken your concerns? Believe it or not, they don’t manage comments on social media threads so you might be better served going to them personally rather than griping online

@@gentrydebbie1040 yeah the advocate group asked for Christian mediation as prescribed in the Bible and a Christ-centered group or ministry to do the investigation-one that would be given full range to investigate ihop to find out if there were any problems and a committed promise to publish the full report. That is not what has been offered. Ihop is the one not playing ball when scripture calls for meditation first, not lawyers. ( in the sermon on the mount. It’s a command from Jesus, not an option that you can substitute with lawyers if you want to. . If they ask you for Christian mediation and you go get a lawyer when no legal threats were made That shows fear, combativeness and defensiveness and that does not equate to biblical wisdom, it’s the opposite. They ask if they can handle a situation biblically and instead ihop is convinced by secular lawyers to handle it through legal process instead. And then complain that the initiators are “not playing ball “ when ihop is attempting to completely change the nature of the sport itself- Trying to do things the secular way after bing asked to do them the biblical way. They and Michael brown said from the beginning, no secular law firms (like is commanded in the Bible), and no one with any connections to ihopkc and the investigator to be independent-and not contracted or engaged just that ihop would cooperate with Christian ministries that want to examine these reports to check for fruit of the spirit or works of flesh. But ihop has not helped themselves out with choices of third party. They are Not Christian( and do not show understanding of the nature of sin) , not unaffiliated-they are contract-bound to ihop instead of free to investigate and not free to publish but must send the report to ihop board for approval first so the board can control the story that gets published. . .That is not independent And the topic has shifted. They are offering an investigation of mike but not of ihop. No one asked to investigate mike. It was ihop as a whole. You may have had the truth misrepresented to you from the speaking platform. That shows a lack of respect for biblical process which must be followed over any advice of lawyers--and it will receive that sort of reward from the Judge at the last day.

💯 agree with you. Attorneys are clearly not known as being pursuers of truth. In my 20+ years of dealing with and interacting with attorneys, the pursuit of truth has not been one of their driving forces in the job that they are paid to perform. In fact, the suppression of truth, redirection, and the manipulation and perversion of facts and circumstances is more of what attorneys specialize in. An attorney's client, their clients' interest, and the desired outcome for their client (often times $$, or a reduction of consequence for their client) is usually the driving force, not the truth. Truth SHOULD be the driving force, but sadly, it is not. Attorneys certainly have their purpose, and oftentimes they are needed, but the pursuit of truth is certainly not a hallmark of attorneys. I think it's safe to say that 💰💰 is the main reason everyone has lawyer'd up. I pray the truth is still revealed in this situation, despite the fact that attorneys are involved.

@@YippeeKiYayMrFalcon Yeah and sadly one of the consequences jesus promised for not obeying Matt 5:25 when accused is a financial judgment. It will not save them money but cost them dearly. Jesus is not a liar. And they are really setting aside true wisdom to follow after foolishness.

Yes YES 100 💯 % AMEN

The initial request was for an complete investigation of Ihop. There has been an attempt to shift the goalposts. .

If I were the advocate group (which I am not) it would be hard to trust this lawyered up process. Mr Bickle will likely downplay everything. IHOPKC Crisis Manager says they are waiting for facts from AG. I would present the facts in a way where they can’t get washed away, plea bargained, skewed, or changed. If she was up to it, a video interview of Jane Doe sharing would be the way it can’t get covered up. And it needs to be released to the public. But Lord we know that is easier said than done. How heartbreaking for her, I can’t imagine. But this could be her Esther moment that frees thousands of captives! In churches, ministries, and other places all over.

The alleged victim had retained a lawyer before IHOP did. No idea about when Mike got a lawyer. The alleged victim’s lawyer is the founder and current board member of the “independent third party the advocate group demands that IHOP hire; you read that all right

When you have clear evidence.. you don’t need lots of layers.. Can the victim just provide the evidence? So we can all move on?

Whose paying for it all? Church funds? IHOPKC is worth 20 million.

*a commentator who thinks he's insightful but, in fact, is obnoxious. It don't take brains to come up with such judgments. It takes brains to realize that keeping it shut is most preferable. @@teohproject

More precisely: How about the victims?!

@@machtnichtsseimann Bro. Everybody is a victim or has been a victim. Sometimes they are real victims. All Germans weren't Nazis. All Nazis were German.Nicht wahr? If you have a burden for "the victims" .... YOU pray for them. I have no doubt that if I felt that I were a victim for a 20 year duration, the ONLY person that I thought about or prayed about would be myself. My self would be so INFLATED after 20 years of mental victimization and torment that I would be my own mental God. Everything would revolve around me, my hurts, my traumas, my losses, my 20 years.... And mental idolatry ALWAYS leads to greed.

@@machtnichtsseimann I know very little about the victims. I know very little about the entire situation. I do think it strange that someone would wait 20 years to come forward. I really don't understand your point. I followed Mike Bickle 's ministry for a number of years. I think I know way more about Mr. Bickle and IHOPKC then I do about any victims, so i like to stay in my lane, so to speak. I am aware of Mike's beginnings at IHOP: pretty humble stuff. I never got the impression that he was in it for the perks or money. He's kind of a legend in some circles. And I think he has a lot of accountability within that ministry. Whether, he wants it or not. So until all the facts come out & there is definitive proof of wrongdoing, I'm just gonna stand with him. I mean, I hope I haven't hurt your feelings or driven you into the need for counseling or something. If so, maybe get back with me 20 years from now and sue me. In the mean time, I think you should document everything.

No one is the same person that they were in 1998, but some things do in fact disqualify you from certain roles even if you’ve repented and changed. Equivalent example Such as, someone who admits to being a thief in 1998 and repented in 2023 (only to his family, not the victim) shouldn’t be the person who is independently in charge of inventory or money in their work.

We have already seen a confession from Mike.

ABBA Bless MB

@@laurie9993 ABBA please heal those Mike has hurt also

“We’re just footing the bill but we have nothing to do with Mike or the way things were handled” I think you’ll find the board is legally culpable 😂

Most successful people limit their clothes choice options.

​@@makers721successful at..?

Please prove.

That's 100% not what I've been hearing. Sounds like trolling...

🎯 correct

Why are you not trusting God? Right? We're Christians, right? Pray and then believe your prayers get answers !!

I have tried 4 times to post a link in this thread of Lathrop Groups website of them stating where they have gotten spiritual leaders of they hook several time and nothing about advocating for victims. It has been deleted every time I post it. @@Bambi12-764

I guarantee Mike doesn’t want this to go to trial, nor does IHOP. It would blow up in their faces and permanently end the ministry.

Im always amazed how worldly these churches become. Once they start making money. It becomes more about the leader. He's the heavy. Stop hoping in the leader! Put your faith in Jesus!

So much generalized accusation and slander packed into one comment, impressive. Remember who The Accuser of the Brethren is and consider whether his spirit has influenced your attitude towards God's people.

Dawg this FROM IHOPKC. You think he hacked into IHOP’s KZfaq? Get a grip man

@user-yz1tk2pf5j My name is printed right here. No, I do not. Where is his name? Does he also lead with that? Why not? Is the purpose of this channel now: the legal and public relations defense of the organization, IHOP-KC? I'm suggesting that it should not be. As well as the obvious primary purpose of this video, its tone and tenor are not appropriate here as they're beneath the highest calling of His elect as Forerunners. I believe that, due to this shortcoming, this video works in fact directly contrary to its intended purposes. While I do not claim expertise in either field, I do have significant education and experience in both. I sincerely hope and pray that this response helps you to understand my position and intent. If not, I suggest that you ask Him to help you in this--as in all things. From an abundance of the heart, our mouth speaks. May Holy Spirit alone have control, both of each of us and as collectively.

Many are already doing that.

Suitable. Freewill exists. No one is tied to ihop 😮

​@@laurie9993 people are tied to IHOP on dif levels.

Its ok to be defensive - it's ok to not be defensive. Can't picture the whole attorney thing in King David's time.

❤ . Just saying its ok for people who are unhappy to leave ihop thats all

When Eric Spoke Last Day 1 @ FORERUNNER, He Was Wearing DIFFERENT Clothes! ALL of His Updates Since Then Were On the SAME Day! WAKE UP Steeple!!! 😭