Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/finnmckenty

At this point i think there is a loop between Finn and Nik: Finn tears us down, Nik patches us up and tells us that it might get better. Repeat.

Nik just wants us all to get along.

Nik: "I'm not like regular mom's. I'm a cool mom" Finn: Red Foreman.

For me it feels like there's 2 parameters for "big" in this convo; For Finn it's mainstream big, for Nik it's a thriving scene. Not to be a family therapist but mom and dad you're both right

"No need to visit the mall. We have Metal at home" - Finn Daddy

I agree Finn that metalheads are kind of in a bubble when it comes to scaling success. Like Lorna Shore may be killing it on a smaller scale, it’s a drop in the water compared to when Limp Bizkit’s Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water rivaling first week sales of the likes of Britney Spears. The early 2000’s was easily the wildest time for metal in the mainstream. I HOPE that happens again, but everything Nik is talking about here is a drop in the bucket.

From my experience going to a BMTH show, there isn't much elitist mentality in their fanbase. Sure there might be some leftover radical metalheads who want them to go back to 2006, but overall, the people who go to the shows now appreciate the new stuff and are quite welcoming to new fans.

I think its more fair to say "Nu Metal is More Respected now than Ever" Even back in the day when it was way bigger than it is now it was not ACTUALLY Respected

Nik is so insightful I’m surprised no one else pointed this out sooner

You and Nik tap into 2 different sides of the metal community. You can scroll through the comment sections of any given vid on both channels and can see the difference. Nik taps into (seemingly) a lot of younger metal listeners, maybe people newer to the genre, and in general has just a more Gen Z feel when it comes to his audience. Sure there's a lot of more seasoned metal listeners that listen to Nik as well, but his audience just seems younger to me in general. Most of us who make up your audience, however, have been listening to the genre for decades. The "keep metal pure"/ "make metal great again" crowd is heavy here lol. So you and Nik may be preaching the same message, but you're preaching to 2 different audiences that both just happen to like heavy music.

Metal will always be around. It’s never going away. It is not dead and never has been. Is it blowing up into the areas of pop and rap. No. I don’t think it will ever reach the levels it was at in the 80’s into the early 90’s. Even then it was still looked down upon and wasn’t at the levels of pop and rap even then. Even at its height in popularity. Metal has and always will be an acquired taste in music. But metal and cockroaches will be the last things on this earth. It will always have a following.

I think we can all agree that the gatekeeping assholes are part of why it’s harder to get more metal heads in the “normie” sphere.

What annoy me the most is how rock or metal band needs 10 years to become almost big, unlike the old days where the debut or 2nd album could make them big. Even the band we consider new is 10 years old like Turnstile, Knocked loose, code orange, lorna shore etc. probably only Spiritbox who only have 1 album and almost become big band

There are always going to be the people that complain about metal getting mainstream and popular. But those guys are not the same people who complain about metal NOT getting mainstream. These are 2 opposing forces that i think you're confusing as the same group of people. That's probably why it looks like metalheads are bipolar from the outside.

When Nik says big, i think he means "relatively" big. Bands like knocked loose are huge compared to where they, and the scene, were 2-3 years ago. Also, Kim Dracula seems to be the prime example of metal/tik tok/trap all merging into something great.

Old head here. I have had to consciously fight the dumb mentality of not liking younger generations liking bands I’ve been into for decades like Deftones. Why do we think like this? It’s awesome that my daughter was excited to tell me how all of her friends listen to Deftones now and how she got to tell them that they’re her dads fav band. All of this is awesome

The first time I heard Deftones was on Dragon Ball Z’s coolers revenge movie, they had a bunch of nu metal songs in that movie and arguably that’s what got me into metal.

I want an internal loop of Nik and Finn reacting to each other's videos

The problem may be that your core audience is older than Nik’s. I’m turning 50 in a few days and I made the switch from being a metal guitarist most my adult life to going full rap haha. The one major takeaway I learned is that people closer to my age DO NOT WANT anything to do with hiphop in most cases. I’m speaking mostly musician friends etc. A lot of the things we cared about don’t matter at all to younger people.

No genre of music is going away, metal will always be around in the same way rap or jazz will always be around. Just because it’s not in the mainstream doesn’t really mean much other than that the next exciting thing in that genre is coming. Fuck even dubstep is starting to show it influences all over the place and making a kind of comeback

Well, Nik's audience is much younger than Finn's and that's why they are more accepting of new things. They will grow old and be conservative while new kids do dumb shit. It's a circle of life.

Metal feels like it’s in the best place it’s been since like the past 15 or so years. It’ll probably never reach the peaks of hair or nu metal again but as long as it has thriving scene I’m happy. I appreciate having both positive mom Nik and cynical dad Finn’s perspectives and they both have valid points.

One "celeb" thing we are forgetting is carrie underwood putting over I prevail and going to a show of theirs also. Nick and Finn definitely are on the right track on things for sure. Both take different tracks to get to their points but they do it.

Bring Me The Horizon are for sure leading the way here for our modern rock/metal fans

You and Nik are the best parents the scene has ever had.

I appreciate Finn's expertise, and watching these videos has definitely shown me a few ways in which the emporer has no clothes, but I do still have an occasional visceral reaction to the "newsflash people!" tonality of his brand of truth telling.

I think Finn is right and wrong at the same time. Metal and heavy music is absolutely not Main stream music like it was in the late 90s and early 2000s but the amount of people listening to heavy music is bigger than ever. If that makes sense. In the 90s there wasn’t a lot of crossing genres. Now with streaming people really do listen to “everything” and the rise of tik tok is making metal even more popular.

What you both don't understand is that metalheads don't care that much about celebrities, the difference is that Nik's viewers are mostly djent and core kids that are usually desperate for their genre to go mainstream, while people who are more into the extreme metal genres just don't care about what Drake and Doja cat think about metal

What I *am* excited about is his point about how metal has become more genre-less. Bands like Sleep Token, BMTH, Avenged Sevenfold - the most popular bands in metal right now - they genre bend like I've never seen before. And the coolest thing about going to a BMTH show or a Sleep Token show, or even a Lorna Shore/Knocked Loose show: you see young kids in the crowd. That is what's exciting to me and what the metal scene has been lacking for a long time. I dare you to go to a Spiritbox show and find me a single person under the age of 35 (no shame, I like Spiritbox). Go to a Knocked Loose show and find me someone *over* 35. Young people are what metal has been missing for a long time, and young people seem to be coming back. (of course the bands the young people like the most are the ones old metalheads hate, what's new)

Of course Metal isn’t as mainstream as it was in the 80s/90s/00s and it might not ever reach that point again. But I think Nik is trying to point out the upward trend of the past few years instead of ‘Metal is dying’ decline some people have been claiming.

Demi has ALWAYS been into rock/metal! I think when she had a contract with Hollywood Records they just really didn’t want her to go in that direction

I think the thing is that metal is so big of a genre at this point and has so many subsubgenres that you cannot refer to metal or metalheads and assume everyone likes the same type of music or bands...metal at this is a 40-50 year old genre with different sounds and scenes all around the world...and yet when I see Finn or Nik for that matter talk about metal, they reffer to mostly American modern metalcore bands and rappers that mix metal influences in their music...I am almost 30, I kinda lost track of new metal bands like 7 or 8 years ago and mostly have stuck with what I grew up with and also trying to discover old classic bands of different subgenres from all around the world...to me personally, I couldn't care less about metal being popular...I've learnt that it is a genre for a niche audience by nature. Don't get me wrong, I have been guilty of gatekeeping myself and have grown out of it gradually, to the point that I think that it's cool that popular artists like metal and talk about it in public or wear band shirts, but I don't expect metal being mainstream, and I'm ok with that, I don't need spotify numbers to be as big as Doja Cat's or Ed Sheeran's. Having said that, I welcome anyone who wants to start their journey through metal music and I do really enjoy and love to share, listen to and discuss metal music with anyone...I think my point is that there will be people who don't want metal to be popular because of a gatekeeping thing and others like me that don't really care because my link is with the music itself...

I need a bumper sticker that says "if you want more people to be into infant annihilator, then you need to let them be into MGK and Olivia Rodrigo first"

I feel like these two different schools of thought of whether metal is bigger now ever than before, or no, is really based on generational the gap. Young People in their 20s and teens think that metal is bigger now than ever (like Nik for example), really because they simply weren't alive, or old enough to know what was going on around them back when metal and nu metal was at its height (the younger people will also say it was a meme genre), and yeah, the taste makers shat all over the genre, but regardless it was at the highest it had been since the 90s or even the 70s and 80s. Slipknot had blast beats, doible bass, the evil imagery and growling with songs that were basically 5 minute long death threats, and they played Conan O'Brien multiple times lol comparing now to then, yeah, metal maybe isnt dead, but it's not the biggest it has ever been. Right now it seems nu metal has come back, and post hardcore, metal core, and emo have been the dominant genres of today, but still are nowhere near what it was 20+ years ago. Also these rap artists doing the metal thing really isn't anything new bc again, Lil Wayne did that years ago with his rock album, which really was the prototype or precursor to the emo trap/trap metal trend that started a few years ago and is still evolving. Wayne did what Uzi is doing now before Uzi was old enough to speak (or may not have eben been born yet). Those of us 40+ yro know and have seen all this already. Yeah some of these bands are playing Coachella or whatever, but it's nowhere near what it was back in the MTV and TRL days. So for the people who were old enough to see how popular metal was back then, compared to today.. It's understandable to see how the older generation could say that the genre is dead, which also ties into a lot of older rock and metal listeners are mostly discriminatory against new bands/music, and when the band they've been listening to for 20 plus years isn't on top of the world anymore, hell yeah they're going to say the genre died lol The youngins think it's bigger than ever before because again, they weren't alive rolled enough to understand what was going on 20 plus years ago with the popularity of the genre, so these little spikes and spots of exposure with the Kardashians wearing the band shirts is like "WOW! METAL IS BIGGER THAN IT'S EVER BEEN!" When really it's more bland and boring than ever before with the exception of very few bands/personalities. Also finn, I've been watching you for years, and yeah lol you called it way back then and the people didn't like what you said, so i think it's again the age gap, as to why they don't want to listen to you (also maybe the hat amd criticism of riff salad music/bands). Nocturnal is the younger, more hip taste maker, so they're of course going to flock to him and take his opinions (that are exactly what you've been saying) and say "wow! I never thought of it like that before!" And then you feel like magatu on crazy pills lol

23:40 EPIC!!! LOL - I should do a video "Grandpa checks in with Mom and Dad about the The State of Modern Metal"

Finn be like “how do I reach these keeeedz??”

If you’re Dad and Nik is Mom, the real question is, during the divorce, who do I go live with?

My main retort: metal, like most other music, is a lot more "decentralized" now, there's more artists making music, so the listener bases are more spread out. While X band might not be "as big as its ever been", I would argue there are more people than ever enjoying metal music, and it's way more culturally accepted than it's ever been. The amount of metal bands that say, are 90%+ screaming that are making a living off a consistent listener base today is astronomically higher than it was in the 90's. None of them will ever be Doja Cat, but the cumulation of all their listeners is astronomically higher than any other point in history.

If anything, we should be looking to bands like Gojira, Parkway Drive and Architects who not only have far more monthly listeners than bands like Knocked Loose or Lorna Shore, but are doing so on their own merit within the metal community, not because they are being endorsed by mainstream artists. Gojira and Parkway Drive have also headlined major festivals like Hellfest and Wacken- something that those other bands have yet to do and probably wont do. But even then, like you say, none of those bands are anywhere near the level of bands like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Slipknot, System of a Down in terms of popularity. I just cant get all excited just because Billie Eilish was seen bopping her head to Knocked Loose 😂

Nik is a Killswitch breakdown and Finn is an oldschool Norma Jean breakdown. Put both together… Tower of Snakes.

I went to a BMTH concert in the Minneapolis area recently, and I mentioned to a few people that it was my first metal show. Nobody seemed to be gatekeeping or being rude to me, so maybe the gatekeeping happens more with certain bands or regions. Most of the grumpy people I tend to see are online in my experience.

“Sounds like a skill issue” killed me 😂

Finn, one million listeners on Spotify isn´t much compared to artists from other genres. That´s for sure! But I think that it´s as accomplishmet for a metal band to reach this number.

I think Finn just hears the negativity over those applauding. Bruh, 10 million people telling you that your wrong sounds like a huge number until you realize that's only the population of Ohio. The rest of the world could be telling you that you're right, but that 10 million is still loud enough to annoy ya. A lot of people have been enjoying the wins for the past 5+ years

Everyone forget anthrax and public enemy, the OG'S in crossover music.

I Agreed, the gatekeeping is tiresome AF. Always have been always will be. Love the direction and getting the music I love out there to a wider audience.

It's great to see more people getting into metal, the reason why big names giving shoutouts to metal is a two sided coin is you bring the Trendys who will pretend to be into it and only listen exclusory to the bands their Idols name dropped while ignoring or even downplaying other artists in the genre and then probably forget about it in a week or two. I want to see more people coming to death metal, black metal, folk metal, sludge, doom, drone ect but it comes down to the new fans willing to dive deeper and part of that is being open to showing these new fans the music to. I started exploring Melodic Death Metal and Folk/"Viking" metal on my own going into highschool and I had a bro show me some black metal bands and later doom metal bands that really got me into exploring bands and becoming a metalhead. What I'm saying overall is that while I hate trends and posers, it's important to still welcome new fans in because even if ten of them leave, one or two of them will stay and hopefully bring more. I can say the same thing about rap music, country, ska ect, you see your friend listening to a new overproduced Juicy J single, show them Body Parts or Tear da Club Up '97 and open their world to the stuff that made parents afraid of hiphop 20 years ago.

Deftones continue to stay relevant because they make great music! Back in the day a friend brought over the 1st Deftones album and it was the greatest thing we ever heard! So if they're still having the same impact to young people, they'll continue to stay relevant and their latest album is their best and they just keep getting better and evolving, can't wait for the next album, one on the best bands ever! 🤘

I've played and taught music my whole life and I can tell ya "the Kids" ain't learning the "cool, new, modern riffs"....because there are none. They all still want to learn Metallica, Misfits, Zeppelin, etc..."Modern Metal"/"Rock" is boring to listen to and play. It's either a utterly forgettable Djent drool, or impossible to play Polyphia/Animals As Leaders stuff. Nothing fun, sexy, dangerous or powerful.

Finn is the music version of the Steve Buscemi "how do you do, fellow kids" meme! 😂

So one's open minded and one is stubborn and set in their ways? Sounds like my grandparents. I like both perspectives.

I think a big thing with you Finn is Nik loves modern metal and you seem like you hate it. You will shit on modern bands and say they all sound the same while lifting up pop stars and say you want bands to sound more like that. But when bands like Sleep Token do sound like that, you say you dont get it or don't like it. Its very contradicting and makes it seem like you just dont like metal to someone who doesnt understand you. Meanwhile Nik loves modern metal bands and while he will say negative things about generic ones he still puts more emphasis on what bands are doing right than the ones that are doing boring stuff. Just a possible reason why, i personally like you Finn and have listened to your wisdom even if i don't always agree with it (Olivia Rodrigo is not innovative many people have done the pop rock stuff like her)

Yeah they were hard core bands playing on late night shows in the 90s. Guess one fin, that was 30 years ago buddy. As far as these days it’s absolutely important that we see bands on festival lineups like Coachella

The person that said "Post Malone likes metal I believe" must have never heard the fact he auditioned to be in Crown the Empire lmao

Back in the early 2000's a lot of Hollywood films had a soundtrack album consisting of songs from artists of that era. From the Matrix soundtrack to Resident Evil and others. This past decade there was like zero of that.

It's amazing to see any sort relevance and interest from fellow zoomers in the metal scene, and hopefully it will overtake the gatekeepers. I got talked down to by an elder emo with a "widdawy hitting da gwiddy wight now" voice at a Spiritbox concert because I didn't listen to Pierce The Veil in 2012, and I've been into bands like Periphery since '16, so hopefully as (if) the genres grows the hype will drown out that kind of noise.

Fucking great video. I agree that Finn's been screaming the same shit for years but he's also Glenn Fricker coated. They both radiate "Get off my lawn" energy, but they're always right in the end lol

Demy Lovato saying she likes Lorna Shore and most of the metal fans in the comments section talking about her being fake, how she's crazy and/or people don't want her representing the metal scene... And I'm like why are the fans always the worst part of the metal scene...

I thought it was pretty cool this year to see Carcass this for the first time in 30 years and it was the biggest venue and bigger crowd than any of the multiple times I saw them between Reek and their initial hiatus. I don't consider streaming numbers a true picture because of algorithms. People just go with it and hard to tell if they are actually enjoying it. The algorithms are helping with exposure and showing a healthy picture but we are dealing with stuff that can be easily manipulated. This is coming from a old guy who worked in radio and record labels. Terrestrial radio spins and record sales numbers seem more like an actual barometer than something where bots can tack on streams or 'randomly' choose. Though radio and old school charting had it's cheats too. Enjoy what you enjoy and best to luck at anyone trying to make a living in the current climate.

Nik is talking about modern metal. Of course Nu Metal was the biggest metal had ever been aside from in the 80s, but his point was how experimental and varied modern metal is getting. WE DO FUN METAL THINGS HERE

It’s crazy the parallels between modern metal and modern pro wrestling. You have people that remember the heyday and look at these modern metal bands selling 6000 copies and I’m being told that this band that sold 6000 copies is the next iron maiden or something and even though the band might have very talented musicians, and can do things that a lot of us can’t do, unless they’re playing some big festival. If the headliner tour themselves it’s gonna be you and 2009 other people at best at the Show. Modern pro wrestling kind of has the same thing going on. There are less people watching wrestling today than ever before. Yes I know things like wrestlemania weekend draw a big events and all the other smaller companies flock to the surrounding cities to put on advance so they can have their biggest shows of the year but outside of that like you barely have 2 million people watching the shows anymore when back in the 90s we had over 9 million people watching. And the people that are so hopeful for both modern metal in pro wrestling will sit here and tell you that it’s in the greatest state it’s ever been but both of them have to rely on legends that have been around for more than 25 years to get casual fans to even care. And just like modern metal bands, where I feel like no one is inventive and everyone’s doing the same thing it’s the same thing in pro wrestling. You go back to the 90s and everyone was different from the body types to the styles now pro wrestling is just very cookie-cutter, everyone looks the same, everyone has the same style, everyone tries to follow the same match formula and I feel that’s the same thing with metal today. I’m not saying it’s wrong that people like these things but if you keep saying that it’s perfect and it doesn’t need to change, the crowds will continue to get smaller and smaller and smaller until there’s less than 1000 of you still lying to yourself after all, the legends are retired and can’t do it anymore that yes, this thing is over and dead now. And I agree with fin the people that think that metal is in the best state it’s ever been but when the bands they’re talking about can only fill venues with the max being 2000 people that’s not the biggest metal has ever been. Don’t get me wrong I’ve been in bands to the point to where we were going to other states to play shows and a good show for us would be 500 people. I would love to play in front of 2000 people but I wouldn’t be delusional and think I’m the next Metallica. When you go back to the 90s and 2000s when you had people like Metallica, Korn , Pantera, Ozzy, Limp Bizkit, etc. selling out NBA Arenas with 30,000 people there and they’re doing that in 25 different cities. Yeah what’s going on today doesn’t compare. I think really that’s why we have more and more of these big festivals because unless you’re opening up for Metallica or Megadeth or Slipknot you’re probably not going to ever get in front of a crowd that’s in a decent sized arena. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with anyone liking any of these bands and of course there are main stream celebrities that might like it. But you know what we had even more main stream celebrities in the 90s that liked it. it never ceases to amaze me how some people get so excited that someone that they don’t think it’s in the Metal community turns out to be a fan of metal. There are lots of people that don’t dress and look like they would be a fan of hard music, but then again, that’s kind of a problem with people in the community is they do judge people based on looks a lot of time, and if you don’t look like you fell out of the trailer parks and most people don’t think you’re a fan. But that doesn’t mean that the heavy music is at the best place it’s ever been because it’s really not. There might be more bands than ever but you can take 1000 bands today and add up all their album sells together and it wouldn’t equal what the top 10 bands 25 years ago we’re doing.

The gate keepers/older metal fans (usually your fanbase) don't embrace the crossover with Uzi,babymetal, and MGK, but the younger millennials and zoomers (usually Niks Fanbase) go with it.

I would contend that it is good for metal to have exposure and to grow, but the reason there is such aversion to that is because we have seen it before and we've seen it go wrong. There is a reason that hair metal and then nu metal were both such a flash in the pan. Because it gained mainstream popularity, and was ultimately watered down to the point of nausea within a few short years both times. I'm not saying that its right or wrong to push against change, but I can at least say that this is a huge reason why that happens.

What I've learned in life is that people are going to believe what they want to believe and when they want to believe it....

We all know you’ve been saying this, Finn. Your loyal fans that watch! Don’t forget about us just cus there’s only 400,000 and not 400 billion 💜

I do wonder if there might be less bot farming in metal. It’s so prevalent in hip hop especially with smaller rappers trying to fake a wave to generate real listens

Finn please continue to share your opinions on future risks for the genre of metal. Also please continue to talk about new artists that may fit into the old genre of metal.

In ohio fall out boy sold out a 20000 capacity event at blossom. I know that's not metal and that's what sold the tickets, but they had bring me the horizon open for them. That's 20000 people that maybe wouldn't listen to them , and might now.

Honestly, some of the reason may be demographics. Nik is a younger millennial/older zoomer, and probably has a younger audience who is more open to these things. For what it is worth, I fall into that demographic and find I agree with some things from both of you, and disagree with other things. On this specific, I do agree with the overall points both of you make.

It would be interesting to analyze what the pop scene thinks about these crossovers.

Side note but I ran into Jacoby Shaddix of Papa Roach on the sidewalk in Downtown Chicago and he was a very nice guy. I was so nervous. His boo didn’t even bat an eye lol. He must get approached by fans all the time

What's amazing is that no matter how much proof there is of people liking multiple genres of music - whether it's celebrity examples or random people all over social media - people still willingly refuse to believe it. If you have been on KZfaq or TikTok for more than five minutes, you've seen it. At this point you literally have to be an intentionally stubborn, flat-earther-level conspiracy theorist to claim it doesn't exist. [Edit: You're not doing anything wrong. There's no other way to say it. If people still don't believe you after all this time, nothing will change their minds. Just have to accept people like that will always exist. It's not worth beating your head agaist a wall to try and convince them.]

I admire Nick’s optimism but his blue pill denial of reality is also frustrating. Metal used to be all over TRL and the radio. Now you couldn’t find it in even the bowls of the mainstream. If I asked 100 people at random if they’ve heard of Bad Omens, at most 2 or 3 would say yes.

I don't remember who I was watching the other day but someone was talking about how they feel like rock is in this bubbling. Where they're trying to figure out what the next mainstream sound is going to be. We saw the bubblings on it with the pop punk revival and now the nu metal revival. Something big is coming and I honestly can't wait.

I agree Finn, living through the 00s nu metal boom, it was full on mainstream, cds on top shelves at stores huge. Mean girls taking about it huge. Metal is in a good place noe for sure tho. Bands taking risks etc, quality releases from most of my favourites.

Can't see the forest through the trees, eh Finn? NIK isn't a douche, so people find him more agreeable.

This assessment might be total BS, but from what I've seen the biggest bands in the hardcore and post-hardcore scenes have around 500,000 to 800,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. So I think it's a safe assumption to say that if a hardcore or post-hardcore band has at least a million monthly listeners on spotify then they are big in the genre AND are sort of mainstream. The three bands that I found that fit this description are Knocked Loose, Turnstile, and Fugazi.

The Kardashian/Slayer event has to have been one of the most damaging moments for the perception of metal fans in my memory. I've never understood why people were so pissed about a famous person wearing a slayer shirt.

Everyone knows we dont listen to dad until its too late!

He (like most guitarists) is in a bubble. If all he sees is chat/for you feed is metal core, djent, black metal bots etc etc he thinks the average guy his age sees the same. Saying Nu Metal is more popular than ever just proves his age. You had housewives singing Rollin Rollin Rollin back in the day.

I love this momma Nik and papa Finn analogy lol. Mom be like: good job sweety, you're making such good progress, that's so exciting! Dad be like: cool, but you still ain't shit yet! 🤣

the metal scene is it's own worst enemy. fans are terrible gatekeepers that don't want anyone new or just only compare new bands to the old bands they love so to even be in the genre is taxing. as a metal musician it's filled with very high egos and people who don't want to treat it somewhat of a job and turn out to be burnouts within a few years. there's a ton of players that think they know some riffs from their favorite songs that they deem hard to play and come to the conclusion they that can play anything until they come across someone who's been around a lot of players/bands and is insanely versatile and ultimately quit because the thought of knowing everything to knowing nothing can be very crushing

Let's not forget a few months ago for Scream 6 for Demi's song in the video she had Spencer from INK and Mike Shinoda from LP in the video

It's all context. I think metal is more popular with artists than it has been in a long time, but the fans and what's popular with the general public is the issue. It's great that Doja Cat and Drake are into it, but their fans are still not going to be. A 10 year old paints a picture that's really good for a 10 year old, doesn't mean it's going to stand up in a real art gallery. Knocked Loose may be popular among fans of that genre and even popular to mainstream artists, but ask a random high school girl who Knocked Loose are and they're not going to know. Compare that to the TRL days. Nearly any high school girl would know who Korn is.

In 2018 Doja Cat was apart of the Dia De Los Deftones festival in San Diego at the stadium The Padres play at. Future was on the bill that same year.

Ryan Gosling wearing a BANE hoodie and Ben Affleck wearing a Bridge Nine Shirt. Watch out, they’re coming for your hardcore.

I grew up to metal and hip hop. I love it when these genres combine.

Grandpa, stop fighting with dad! "Knocked loose is not big" and has over 1 million listeners on spotify. How is this different from gatekeeping? Who cares if a heavy band gets as much money or followers as the biggest pop stars? I do completely agree that we need to accept "normies" listening to metal, though... and I'm all for famous people getting into metal and promoting the genre! This stuff is awesome, but at the same time fame and popularity are not everything in the world. These things are very superficial.

Maybe metal heads think that if Lorna shore did a colab with say demi lavato, Lorna wont keep making heavy music going forward? I don't know. I'm 38 and been listening to heavy music and punk music since I was 10 and I want a colab like that to happen. In with you on this and want metal to get back the 2000s popularity.

A lot of us that weren’t around and/or aware back when metal was actually really big have lower standards for what makes metal bands “big.” I was 6 in 2002. So for us the “big” metal bands were the scene metalcore bands, and that is our standard for what is “big.”

Dont think heavy music is big because of the music, as I've seen many are returning to metal because of getting tired of rap. That's why nu metal is popoing, one of the most rappy metal genres. But in the mainstream? Not at all there is basically no metal except some bring me or some trash lil uzi album

I'd say, no matter what your tastes are, if you dig a little bit, you'll probably find enough good music, although some genres might be saturated with clones, as it always happens. I constantly find things I like. Never ends... Although, real, masterpiece, genius albums don't come everyday. But thats always been the case. You'll probably won't see a new "Bright Size Life" before long...

The filter this is so true, I started with classic punk/reggae from my parents, got into pop punk when I was like 11/12, nu metal from there and now I'm a basement dweller

So a lot of metal elitism seems to come from this idea of metal being an acquired taste. Instead of people being able to just like it because it sounds good or makes you feel good, you have to either work hard to get a refined taste or you are just special because you get and normies can’t. It’s a very teenage mindset. I’m sure I was as bad when I was young.

“Nu metal is as big as it’s ever been” I admire Nick’s enthusiasm but this is patently false. In the early 2000s, bands like Korn, Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and Slipknot were hitting #1 on Billboard, being shown on TRL, and were all over the radio. Nu metal (and metal in general) is far smaller now. It’s annoying when people state things as fact that are simply untrue

People need to remember that bands like Atreyu and From First To Last used to be on Jimmy Kimmel. Also I would really love you to have Matt Good on the show one day Finn Keep it up

Never forget the cannibal corpse cameo on the original Ace Ventura

Idk about Nik’s opinions of things but the man is one hell of a guitar player!!! He has taught me so many new things and has raised my guitar skills

Metal is currently in the best place it’s ever been. May not be the most popular, but the best music is currently being produced.