Mark has a beautiful voice! So does Dr. R. ❤ You both could narrate audiobooks and make a killing!

After 25 years I escape from the JW. It nearly cost me my life. 5 years of CPTSD and 18 years of processing the indoctrination. Today I am very grateful I survived the ordeal. Thank you!

I was a Mormon for 45 years. Although I was in mainstream Mormonism, it still meets the characteristics of a cult.

Dang. This guy breaks it down incredibly. It's amazing how narcissism is used so insidiously within group-think and cults. Yes, we become so observant, over-observant, but then gaslight ourselves. So it's becoming over-observant of the abuser/user and then completely forget ourselves. "Mapping the other persons mind to figure out what's right and what's wrong, what's acceptable to _them,_ and what's not" Yes!

That’s interesting, because you sat that being in a cult is like being with a narcissist. I lived with a Narcissist and it felt like a cult.

I was a part of a Pentecostal Church which in my opinion was a cult ran by a female Narcissist! It’s been over 22 years ago and when I look back I’m so happy that I’m out but my journey has been nothin short of a Miracle..

The Vow renewed my hope for humanity. Watching Mark and the crew work together to take down such an evil man inspired me so much during such a dark time. I rewatch it a lot! Best documentary ever ❤

The betrayal trauma is very tricky and hard to heal from. I had the misfortune of growing up a JW and divorcing 2 abusing spouses. One was a cheater, the other a scammer who robbed me (both believing JWs btw). During divorce #2 came my waking up and leaving the cult, as I started to read about narcissistic abuse and recognising, that not only my ex was doing it, but also the religious leadership. It's been years and I still second-guess behaviours of others, looking for signs of danger and ready to bolt. Relaxing the defences and reaching out with trust comes super hard. And this constant vigilance is mentally exhausting.

Mark I hope your realize two things, Bonnie is super woman and the help you always wanted to give the world you gave to yourself and the people who managed to escape the cult because of the clarity Bonnie gave you and you gave to them.

So very interesting. Great warning for those who are not aware of cult like behaviors. What is so interesting is that I was involved in one for two weeks when I was 18. Three years prior I gave my heart to Jesus. I was in what is called a relationship with Jesus and knew that I was truly loved by God. I wanted to get to know him so I read the Bible. My life was filled with joy, though my home was very broken. As I began my journey into this religious cult I began to get red flags. I prayed and asked God to show me the truth and two weeks in, he did. As I grew in my faith there were churches I attended that over time began to display cult like views. I would leave and go to a different church. I was very involved and my time in some of these churches, at minimum was 5 years. I had the ability to understand that even if there was abuse or scandal, it was those involved who were the cause and they certainly were not followers of Christ. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. I never walked away from God or lost my faith. Sadly most cults take principles from the Bible and twist them into what they were never intended to be. Hmmmmm, I wonder who is the Master Deceiver? There is good and bad in this world but in the US particularly we have been indoctrinated into the religion of relativism, which with a few questions can be dismantled. I digress. I met my husband in church and we raised 3 beautiful, respectful, responsible children, 2 who now have their own families. They all love God and choose as young adults to continue that journey. We lived our faith and never tried to manipulate them into our ways. I think because I knew it wouldn’t be real or lasting if it wasn’t their own. We did pray. Over the years, though I attended some good churches, there was always some type of teaching, that as a woman was definitely a bit controlling. Not by my husband because he always respected my outgoing, independent nature. Maybe it’s because Protestant churches basically are independent and make up their own rules. Granted there are some that are more orthodox. Fast forward to the last 5 years. I was challenged to read church history. I was blown away by the fact that the early church and the first 1,500 years, looked nothing like the Protestant/ Evangelical churches I had been a part of. At this time, I had such an aversion towards Catholicism but that was what I was seeing. For the first time I found myself angry at God and said, ok fine, I’ll do all my homework (partly because I wanted to disprove it) but I’ll never be Catholic! Getting my hands on all I could, including all the early church fathers (not written by Protestants) to my utter amazement I fell in love with all the truth, beauty and goodness of what the Catholic Church really is, as opposed to what I wrongfully believed it to be. I fell deeper in love with Jesus. For the first time I felt more respected as a woman and that continues now that I’m Catholic. I believe it’s because of the respect they have for Mary the mother of Christ. The Church clearly teaches respect for her and never worship. Sadly, people do that but worship is for God alone! Saint Augustine said, “our hearts are restless until they rest in you, oh God.” I have seen this in so many who are searching for fame, money, title, love, etc. We are all created in the image and likeness of God who is love, therefore the true Christian will mirror that in his life and especially in the way they treat and value others. Not always perfectly but because we understand personal forgiveness we are free to love and forgive. This is a small part of my story and obviously some will disagree but I’m not here to convince anyone. Sadly, the Catholic Church and Christianity often get a bad wrap. Sadly there are bad people within just as there in schools, organizations etc. That doesn’t change the fact that God is good and loving. He heals the broken-hearted, his mercy is deep and his love is for all. Best of all he gave us a “free will” to choose his love. Each person has their own journey. Mine took me here. Thanks to you all for sharing your experiences and I pray your journey is full of love and healing and peace.

This was an incredibly moving, powerful discussion of Mark’s painful but learning experiences mixed with Dr Ramani’s insights.

Thank you Dr. R. And Mark!! You have described Exactly the Family I married into many yrs ago. My husband's mother who is now 91 yrs old, still controls the entire family. She is charismatic , grandasos , loud, and demanding . She demanded loyalty from everyone. Since listening to you for over a year and therapy I realized how time had played out in this family. My deceased husband was a Covert Narcissist who has now died and I have broken away from his family especially his mother. And the Flying Monkeys came out of the wood work. My breaking free has been a journey but we'll worth the Freedom. THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH....LOVE TO YOU BOTH FOR THIS VALIDATING INFO!!!

This has been hugely helpful to me having left a high demand religion and related marriage 10 years ago and wondering why I’ve fallen into narcissistic groups and relationships ever since. Thank you Dr. Ramani and Mark. We all need to keep sharing these covert forms of psychological tyranny we’ve walked through and keep waking others up. Best wishes to all our recovery. ❤️‍🩹

Thank you for this form those of us coming out of this massive growth in cults. It's not easy to speak out, the more it's done the more awareness others have so they don't fall pray. This is happening today in many cults not just this one. I hope everyone in this spiritual trap has the courage to get out. A cult is an extended family unit I'd say. Abusers have morphed religious dogma into spirituality and it looks like a cult. It's a nightmare truly to unravel.

So articulate- first time I ever heard a person speak like me, like thinking, values, speaking, didn’t expect it to be a man!

Bravery isn't without fear

Thank you for this education! Huge respect to Mark & Bonnie, Nippy & Sarah, as strong couples standing together to take down the cult.

I work with a radiologist who wouldn't speak to me for six months,he just tell someone next to me to tell me. After that time I and only I was the one he spoke to and trusted. Crazy.

Wow. Now I see what NLP does. Terrifying. I can see how NLP can be used against us. Thank you Mark!!

More Mark!! Best interview ever!!

@19:18 “that was the day … I was suicidal. I had all kinds of suicidal ideation.” Thank you so much for sharing this. For the longest time, I have wondered why I felt suddenly suicidal towards the end of that relationship. The suicidal ideation seemed to come out of nowhere. But it also came at the same point in my relationship that it came to Mark - the point where I had to dismantle everything I believed. I was also enamored with him and simultaneously saw a pattern of abusive behavior towards me. Is he really bad or is there something wrong with me? How could I have believed for so long that he was so good? This was the worst and most painful cognitive dissonance and I can see now how that amount of pain contributed to thoughts of suicide.

Wonderful interview. Though I have been workng on myself and entering and escaping these relationships since 1986. So, hard over the years. Much better, and working on myself now the kids have grown. I am still quite vitualant with every relationship I am introduced too.

This was an AMAZING conversation!!! It was a pleasure to listen to!!

Why is the narcissist jada pinket Smith an executive director?? What does she addd to the content exactly? I'm sure Dr Ramani could do this independently

Dr R - these are gold gems 💎!! I loved 🥰 what the Beep do I know.

Love your new way in podcasting, you are so beautiful and intelligent! 🤍✝️🤍

Narcissism.....pure definition of the devil.

satan can transform to be like an angel so study before believing anything because you might be following men and not God..this is the great challenge we have to prepare is these people can study also all these things being discussed about them and can turn the table, they can be more smarter to fake themselves to pretend because they will shun those traits that are always discussed about them.. there's is narcissm in everyone and that can only overcome by the grace of God if we sincerely seek it..God can always intervene 🙏

I’m not solely cynical but I TRUST no one☝🏾

Thank you ❤from South Africa 😄😄😄😄😄

I enjoy Dr. Ramani’s videos and podcasts, but I am disappointed that she doesn’t talk about people who are more susceptible to cults than others. I know no one wants to blame the victim, but it’s important that people understand what vulnerabilities they may have in order to avoid being recruited by a cult. These personality traits are easy to find online. Talking about these traits will help educate people.

This really brought some clarity to this madness. Thank you to you both for the gift of being able to break all of this down and make us feel less alone. ❤

He seems to paint the victim's story to well, let's not forget he was an active and high ranking member and acted as the Leni Riefenstahl to his cult leader.

Cults collect ppl. They win over professionals they get crafts men on their side to legitimize the cult.

Really good podcast 😊gives me so much rich information

This is an amazing discussion. Thank you

Great episode!! 👍🌸🌸✨

Dr Romani I was trapped by a covert narcissist for 40 years starting at. Age 15. My life has been derailed. I was not able to have a family or work. What can I do legally?

It's good to bring it all to light but there are people who will never trust Mr MV again or forgive him for enrolling them into that cult, for gaslighting them, for triggering guilt when they tried to leave or had other things, more important in their lives. A grown up person owns it up and accepts that others will not exonerate him. Grownup people understand that they need to pay consequences too.

So many truths in here

Such a powerful and informative discussion.

Thank you

7:06 I was thinking he wants to be accepted. He wants to fit somewhere. And he Didn't LOVE HIMSELF enough.22:24. Boundaries testing or PUSHING. 42:00 waiting for the COMPLIMENT. 43:00 like plural wives are groomed from childhood.

Dr Ramani, this was a good video. Thank you. I hope you read this.

Jehovahs Witnesses….Scientology etc. I was also stuck in a cult.

NICE TALK I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL

WOW essential listening.

EST,Lifestream, Willowbrook Church...there's plenty of sheep (seekers)for the myriad charlatans out there.

Yes I now watch them do the data mining/love bombing. After twenty years of abuse, and now a year into healing, it is soooo obvious I would love to share my story with you Dr. Ramani - off the record - it’s so insane that people who watched it all happen still don’t believe it. I did all the work. I had a good team. I am so lucky.

truth is good thank you,. insights help. how work on ones grandiosity?

Sounds a lot like Scientology. Confession, penance, snitch culture, "ethics"... and more. I was involved briefly with Landmark and it's Scientology-lite - but it's just about taking your money.

"A template a pattern"

Great talk!!! One thing about what Mark sayed... that he felt goodness was not an inner trait because he was a white man. I argue that it's enough to see other people go through disasters as a child in order to think that you are inherently bad. And the most difficult aspect of C-PTSD is this salf hate. Deep self hate. Covered with a smearing of pink so that a person can hide this self hate from himself. --- In this context, I like Spinoza's idea. It's not that we want something because it's good... but it's good because we want it. All bad things come from out side. Someone makes us feel bad. There are also good things that come from outside. Someone makes us feel good. But it's not pure good. There is a certain degree of anxiety in this. Someone can take what he gave us. --- So according to Spinoza, pure goodness can only come from inside. Nothing bad ever comes from inside. It's only pure good or you are not inside. You're outside and you just don't know it cause someone stole you true self.

When narcissists and narcissism becomes a malingnant problem the solution is simple and elegant. Simply an empath willing to deflate the grandiosity of the overblown egomaniac must use the same narcissistic traits against the narcissist. The personality types best suited are what peple now call sigmas. It is a sacrifice but one worth the while. When cults and regimes and even corporate entities such as Tesla and Apple under Jobs grind down human beings they should get as they dole out. Raineiri was just as evil and just as stupid as Hitler or Stalin or any other charismatic malingnant narcissist. To the sigmas out there willing to do the right thing GOOD LUCK!!!

I was sex abuse in puerto vallarta that was a test of knowing we were in love and saw the brutal use of my dog, the abuse was less knowing how to not be so abusive that had a to be cruel to my pain of not to play them buy knowing that our love was to be target my lover and the training of saying I love you was a danger my sanity and put him through the love of my dog as a that they used to abuse so gave um a great grieve and then knew that my love wouldn’t hurt my dog as a vet the pay out is so cruel.

He should be sued or not take any pay for any teaching he does.

How very ironic that Jada Pinkett Smith finances this (is an executive producer)

❤❤❤

HEART WASHING. THE ORIGINAL BEOFRE THE TERM BRAIN WASHING WAS A THING WAS HEART WASHING.

If your definition of a cult is its lead by a narcissist then this is true otherwise it’s not.

Nancy Salzmans brother in law, Steve Kass, is the ceo of Tofutti.

I don't believe this guy is totally innocent.

I definitely need to be careful when watching stuff here on youtube because i'm already seeing people say they aren't narsasists but my god even in communities that shouldn't have notoriety and "celebrity" style worship it's still there full on and i am worried about how everybody is getting into talking about narcissism, it's currently a huge trend and they only started to talk about it because of that clearly just to make a career for themselves. I really woke up to how bad this worship of any kind is because of what happened with tv shows and how the culture is on twitter now called x, and it's like you can't say anything remotely truthful about anyone well known because they didn't want to hear it themselves. Then a couple of actors from a famous tv show really just invalidated and shut us down for breaking our hearts and frankly totally gaslit about how good the show really was the whole time apart from the first 3 seasons, especially one of the actors who takes things too far. It's how they throw their sex appeal at everyone especially the girls too🤦and how gross it's become there's now hardly any boundaries just selling it hard. Sure people can be so chaotic and nuts in some good fun ways but i feel like people have observed what has been going on hugely with celebrity culture and are now doing the same on a whole other scale. It's like saying "i can't love myself if i don't worship, fawn over, and hear it from a celebrity or well known person" they think they need to worship someone to fix themselves. I saw this hugely in a fandom i was more or less enveloped in because the actors are highly attractive, and people were using them for validation and to somehow "help" them fix their mental health issues. But what happened when that trauma bond was pulled from under them? welp it all completely fell apart, they went completely insane, and they collapsed realizing they weren't fixed at all it just prevented them from looking at themselves and taking real responsibility about themselves. They were in a state of denial at epic proportions. That's so unhealthy and all these cults are just taking advantage of all the insane levels of fame some people have that they should never have, no wonder they got scared about frank sinatra back in the day, and all of this IS cult behavior which only encourages other cults to form by witnessing such an insane phenomena because they know how susceptible, suggestable, and easily brainwashed people are in this situation. That's why Raniere used celebrities to make him look valid i think he saw how insane the celebrity culture had gotten because all of the struggles that started to happen because of the internet and streaming so they had to start hugely desperately pushing and selling themselves down people's throat to earn money and as we know earning a paycheck from streaming hasn't been going so well because of the greed from the big studios. It's now become so cheap the things they do even just to stay relevant. I really don't worship anybody anymore except of course the chosen few that have been with me for years and i know it's not just for the money but the fans, as an outlet for themselves, and because they couldn't do anything else with their lives it's in their bones. It doesn't make me want to throw myself at them or to develop an obsession with them just pure talent and enjoyment. That seems to be the starting point to be able to really look at yourself and start improving too is stop worshipping and stop being so easily impressed, ever since i've been able to look at things with clear perspective not having the chemical rush cloud my judgement. Now i understand why celebrities don't seem easily impressed by other famous people and seem to have this understanding of each others turf. My recent experience being hugely harassed and stalked in an online game really opened my eyes to it because of how streamers have made gamers thirsty to gain fame for themselves and become streamers too and they'll do anything to get it, be the carefullest of careful with people in online games because you just don't know if they're recording it for their stream to get followers and views. Even there they're trying to form a cult so that they can gain blind followers to get rich and famous off it and if you question it they'll just manipulate them so that they think they're going after you for them to "defend" them when they're actually defending a really narcissistic and passive aggressive person. I finally spoke out in front of everyone to one of the people sent after me and then i said "we need more good people in this world and just maybe everyone is going through the same things you are" i appealed to what little empathy they had and it was dead silence lol because if they were streaming that showed i'm not the monster they all made me seem and put them into question, i didn't see them since😁enjoy your 5 minutes of fame!. Indeed from all my experiences it's the ostracization, smear campaigns, and all the people sent after you that is the most damaging because you no longer feel welcome or wanted even amongst your own species and that creates horrific trust issues, imposter syndrome, paranoia, and a huge feeling that you're not wanted or loved. It's all it's been for me especially in the education system and i honestly just don't feel welcome in my own country i was born and bread in because the social culture is constant ostracization and it doesn't feel like my home. I've constantly thought about moving out of the country and living somewhere else but how is that going to be any different? but i don't know if i could keep living with constantly being made to feel i'm foreign and an alien imposter. You literally feel like an imposter amongst everyone else and you even ostracize yourself by just flapping you arms and accepting the situation like it can't and won't be anything else while these people are there doing this. He's right about having to give up what you really believed about everything, i still don't know everything but it's so hard i just want the world to be this amazing good place too but it's so hard to believe the world we live in we can't accomplish that with how things are, we want literally everything to change to absolute epic levels not just for ourselves but for others too. But i feel that we also think that because "if everyone else if happy then we will be too" but that's not going to happen. I think we'll always be in complete disbelief though because is this real? is our world really real? this is not what we ever wanted to be or perceived what our life should be when we were young.

Although I am sorry that these people went through these disappointing experiences, I think it needs to be said that they do bare some responsibility for these bad decisions in their lives. After all, they were adults who should’ve known better.

When you clicked the wrong thing

This doesn’t sit right with me.

for all the poo-pooing of Sigmund Freud, one cannot help but draw parallels with this cult phenomenon and Freud's Primal Horde. The alpha male of the tribe hording all the females, the subordinates overthrow him, but then they themselves as a group (the cult, the gang) oppress the subordinates (the women and hippy peace loving kind of males, the rebels within the Vienna Circle itself overthrowing Freud like Jung and Reich, and Western Philosophers of the Frankfurt school) . they build the totem to honor the father they killed out of ambivalent feelings of guilt and love. today this "totem" can be any sort of cult emblem, a flag, a statue, a shrine, heck, a corporate brand logo. this leaves me with the question: Is human narcissism UNIQUELY HUMAN phenomenon, or a perverted, exasperated extension of the primates who researchers have found to exhibit similar dynamics? maybe primate proclivities + toxic parenting = HUMAN-style narcissism ?

What?! Produced by Jada Pinkett Smith? Isn't she like the biggest narcissist ever? lol

Mark was subjected to racism in S. Africa. Saying that his race is a problem IS racism. But, this podcast concentrating on narcissism is tainted by its connection with Jayda Pinkett-Smith, who imo is a raging narcissist herself. Huge 🚩 for me there!

These people need to learn basic info to break free from cults :/ It was just one simple article to make him think? I don't know where he was before, under the rock? If these people from cults are so smart, they should have known what is pseudoscience, what is manipulation, high control, ideology, group psychology. It's quite available knowledge! Cults and destructive ideologies are not a new thing. If you join the cult as an adult you should be hold accountable. It was at some point your decision to believe in stupid stuff. Or cult followers are actually not Smart people. They repeat on podcasts how it is not a matter of intelligence. I don't know, there is something that makes them join, a mix of different things, some emotional issues and lack of general knowledge. Some children are more sceptical than those adults. Not everyone will join the Cult. In a way I see that cult leaders and they followers do bad things together

The background music is awful and distracting

Speak softly, but carry a baseball bat. And don’t be afraid to use it.