I would test the BH bike again, with a higher tier tyre and tube, for example: GP5000 + latex inner tube, because at this point, that gatorskin might be the biggest 'issue' on the older bike.

Biggest difference is the tires and wheels. I think it can be way closer for another 500-600$ and get some good tires and some used aero wheels

Anyone else impressed by just the ability to put down almost exactly the same power through both tests?? Nicely done

I'm a steel frame guy myself, but this test misses something very significant, which is that speed gains will be compounding the longer you're riding. As your energy depletes throughout a race, the minor differences become more pronounced. So while you may get a 4% gain for a 20 minute ride, that might turn into a 10% gain for a two hour ride.

Next video idea: BH with GP5000's vs. the Foil with Schwalbe Marathon Plus 😂

Elves Falath Pro could be an interesting choice for the next test, but with their rim brake version frameset with deep carbon wheels. That would require a used SRAM wireless Force or Red rim brake grouppo, which could be a fun comparison.

So a 400 dollar bike to a 10.000 dollar bike.. that's 2400% more expensive, and a 4.3% difference. People are getting absolutely robbed out there.

Gatorskins are too slow. It would be more interesting if you put equal tires or similar tires (GP5000) on the BH.

I understand there has to be a price difference, but if you're talking purely bike comparison, you need to setup both bikes with same tires/innertubes. This will give a much more interesting view of data, because the only difference (for the most part) is going to be the aero dynamic advantages of the bikes.

I can comment on a old vs new Chinese bike debate. I was riding 2010 SCOTT Speedster with 105 and 2011 BMW M Carbon Racer (very rare bike, but still a oldschool type of carbon tube frame) with 6800 Ultegra spec. This summer I switched to Elves Falath Pro with an R8000 Di2 groupset and for the same power I go about 2-3 km/h faster on averages riding my usual 60-70 km routes. The difference was astonishing. It was really surprising. All of my Strava segments pretty much instantly got PR'd. Oh and all of my three bikes had the same wheelset (rim brake 60mm deep carbon fiber wheels). That sounds like a great idea for a test, you should do it.

I think discussion on bike fitting is really important because everything 'rides' on your comfort and ease of motion whatever style riding you set out to do. So there may be people out there who want to maybe pick up a nice used bike online, but have no idea how to get fitted, why it's even important, or even know about bike fitting in the first place.

That BH would be a really great bike in a hillier area. For crits and flat stuff, sure it's gonna be slower (although UK crits often are so tight that shallower wheels are better for the acceleration).

Did you mention what the power meter on the BH was? It's bot the 4iiii on the Scott. 4-5% difference is not that far off from the accuracy you'd expect from comparing two different power meter models, especially the newer Shimano crank-based PMs that are notoriously inaccurate.

The tests is so nicely done, this is a textbook video of how these kind of tests should be done. GCN used to do a lot of these power-controlled field test, which I believe is of great value and that's where their initial "reputation" comes from. Unfortunately for the obvious reason, fast-forward to 2023, they don't even to do these anymore like they now don't have a power meter anymore. Now the same tests were done with a description of "all-out", "flat-timetrial", "comfortably", "feel" without mentioning or controlling any power numbers. I mention this because it reminds me of "the-good-old-days". I read the comment sections and I can see as others have already mentioned, the tyre should be matched because that's not an "upgrade", that's consummerables that eventually gets changed at the same frequency no matter it's a $10000 super bike or cheap bike. When the initial stock tyre runs out after 10000 km, they both face the same question of "which tyre should I go". And there's no rule book or "maintenance bulletins" says you can only fit $150 tyres on $10000 bike and $30 tyre on a $1000 bike or you are in danger. The chances are if they are both well-informed (rolling resistance knowledge), the $10000 guy and $1000 guy will get the same $150 or something tyre, after the initial 10000 km. So the sanity of matching tyre is like "$10000 bike vs $1000 bike after 10000 kms". It's legit, practical and inline with anyone actually rides his/her bike, long-term. I know it's me trying to change another man's mind but I think my point is fair and worth a thought. Keep doing what you are doing, I love these tests!!!

Thanks for the video! Would love a video comparing BH with better rubber (that should make up most of that 4% difference), vs winspace, vs scott foil. Thanks for the videos!

really appreciate these videos. Would like to hear your opinion on bike sizing and frame sizing

The cervelo p5x tt is 7 years old yet still looking so modern and still comparable with current bikes. Its a total dream to own one of those.

I built a nice falath evo with full mechanical red/force mixed groupset. I also built up my own custom 50mm deep carbon wheel set. The rims were 445g a piece from a seller on Aliexpress ( communication was excellent). This is also including a P505 spider power meter, the bike came in at 7.6kg (without pedals) and I managed to keep the price bellow 3000 euros. I recommend something similar. My only issue is the top tube is quite fat and my knees brush it sometimes. I've never ridden anything similar to this before, I've been riding titanium frames prior but holding 400w gets me above 40km/h on the flats. I'm finding it harder to gauge wind direction I think because of the improved aerodynamics. I like to tinker on my bikes so saving weight by foregoing the electronic groupset and hydraulic brakes made sense to me. I'm running the F1 juintec brakes and they feel close to the hydraulic rivals I had on another bike but with 280g sram red leavers that are going cheap these days because of people leaving rim brakes. To be clear, I'm into long distance endurance riding, or at least was when I had time. I'm doing a lot more day riding now in my local area which is what i built the bike for, rather tan crits and alike.

I'd like to see the BH get a couple of upgrades. Firstly some nice low rolling resistance tyres and then some 50mm or so deep rims. Personally I'd be surprised if just the tyres didn't drop about 20s at a cost of under about $200.

This is constant poweroutput! Would love to see the Elves Falath Evo in a comparison. They claim it's an Aero-road-bike, but does it hold up to that?

Seka RDC would be a nice one to test. It looks like it can go toe-to-toe with Factor's VAM Ostro or Spez SL7/8s

We would love to see the same test but with same tires. You don't need to spend $10,000 to benefit from Conti 5000s, you can put them on a $500 bike too. GCN does the same thing when comparing cheap vs expensive bikes, new vs old, the tire difference is an automatic handicap for the lower end spec, makes the new tech look like a bigger improvement than it actually is.

This was a comparison, I didn't know I needed but am glad to see. I am looking at upgrading an "entry level" bike I got in 2015 (aluminium frame, carbon fork, 105, rim brakes. With changes in bikes over the last few years, I am thinking of getting an entry level carbon bike in the 3-4k range. I would love to see how they compare.

I love the comparison test videos. Like some others, I wonder how much upgrades on tires and wheels would help even the gap to the Scott. Those tires, especially the Bontrager, seemed past the end of life. RAIN BIKE!

Agree with all the wheel + tire comments (and maybe narrower handlebars). I think part of the benefit of videos of this type is that even if you don't have much to spend, you can get speed if you spend it wisely. Tires alone could be 20+ Watts and a good enough set of wheels could be had on the cheap. I think that is way more interesting than comparing different frames or stock builds. Either way very fun video!

Very nice content, no shilling and just the truth!

Hey Jeff! I'd love to see the Tarmac SL8 Pro and the Cervelo R5 included. Thanks for these awesome videos dude!

I'm glad you did it with a proper bike for the cheap one, not the silly Eurobike!

Hey, looking to choose between a Scott Foil, Madone, SL8, or supersix as cat1 racer doing rolly road races and crits. You able to share any insights on which you woukd go for and why ir oerhaps could do a review of how the foil rides?

Awesome video. I would love to see how a cervelo aspero with road tires compares to your BH.

Definitely interested in a low, mid, high price range compare. I’m conflicted whether you should try to match some things on all bikes because the entry level here is realistic of entry level and not entry plus a couple of hundred bucks. If anything maybe have a little better tires on the low end bike because gator skins are an avoidable watt loss and affordable small upgrade. I like this comparison with different rims. People encouraging to see a test with similar rims, changes the entry level bike to a non entry level bike. Very curious to see what you choose as mid-level. A comparison between open mould and a similar big brand would be good.

Can you compare entry level carbon bike say scott rc foil 30 vs scott sc foil pro, would like to see how much is the difference?

At least you are consistent with the bad time percentage comparison

Yes, pls, more tests!!! Mid range Ultegra, and Chinese frames with high and components!

hi from malaysia need to know what the different Tarmac SL7 vs SL8 in term of speed and power in watts tq

Would love to see a comparison of Scott and the winspace or like a specialized allez sprint!

I’m personally impressed by the performance of my 2023 Felt FR 30

It would be great to see a test run with the Elves Falath Pro. This frame has been on my list for sometime I wonder how it performs compared to higher end models.

Could have atleast put good tires on the BH 😭

Will those consistency benefits affect the same in a full throttle short sprint? 😏

Would be interested the 2,000-3,000 dollar range, whether Chinese open mold with nice tires or something stock from a mainstream brand, but understanding what the price to performance curve looks like would be really interesting over the next several videos.

How comparable is the body position as this is the biggest factor for aero drag?

Jeff I have an inkling that putting similar sized wheels and type of tyres on the BH would've brought really close results, maybe even negligible difference between the two frames over a short course like that.

You can just about close the gap by buying tubeless gp5000 and some 50mm carbon wheels ,also those gater skin tyres are slow AF, on my 2017 giant propel I gain about 1.8/h from changing the tyres and wheels, which transforms my training bike to a race bike.

If you do this type of tests next time please use decent race tires on both bikes. Most likely Gator was responsible for at least 50% of the 4.3% difference.

Like many of the other comments, I think there is at least 20-30w rolling resistence in those tyres and tubes. I would rather have equal tyres for both bikes, also cos those BH tyres were CRUUUUUUUSTY, and would have been replaced anyway. I think the difference between the two bikes would then come down to maybe 30 seconds, 20 would be a stretch but not unrealistic.

Wrote this off when he takes an old but light race bike but it has r500s with junk tires slapped on it. i'd take my old defy alloy with tiagra (couple lb heavier easy) but on good meats and decent wheels. -U10

If you can somehow run this experiment again where you are purely testing the aerodynamic speed of the frame, that would be interesting. Same tires, same wheels, etc... I bet with the same tires, similar depth wheels, and identical body position the BH is maybe only ~0.5-1% slower than the Scott.

I'd love to know where road course is located? That looks like a great ride.....

Would love to see a China build vs direct sale mid price brand like Canyon Ultimate or Aero Road vs high end big box brand

This was super valuable. How about doing the same with the exact same tires?

I would also love to see a comparison between an Aero Bike and a non aero, for example Canyon Aeroad vs. Canyon Ultimate with same/similar specs.

Are there cracks in the BH’s rear tire? 🤔

I’d be super interested in la comparison between bikes that are from the same mold, form instance a canyon Aeroad CF SL vs a Canyon Aeroaf CFR.

Would love to see the Scott vs that new Elves

Have you checked entry level bike prices recently? 105/Carbon will cost you 1500 at least

wich bike brand and model was the one at 6:26 ??

Do an Elves or Yoeleo with $1000 Chinese carbon wheels and Ltwoo ERX groupset and compare it with the Scott. Maybe an equivalently priced mainstream bike brand as well.

How about the BH with decent wheels and tires? (good wheels also available used for under $1000)

what if you test it at 200w? Maybe smaller gap?

ICAN TRIAERO A9 mitch... Love to see if you can end up testing them... Am very interested

Awesome video! One vote for TFSA JH-06 vs Tarmac SL6.. Actually more interested with the BH bike, with a slight upgrade to a proper tyre and tube. If possible, then plus a pair of cheapest carbon wheels. Highly suspect it's the tyres that makes the difference.

It'd be nice to see the difference between the Scott and a brand new entry level bike with an aluminum frame. 2000$ range. That's what I ride and I see no point in the future where I'll be able to afford an upgrade and I'll bet there's a lot of folks in the same boat.

Winspace mid-tier would be an awesome comparison!! Same tires on all bikes if possible would be best

i'd love to see a test on an old 80s frame (with modern components?) to see how much weight factors in (i wonder how much it factors in on ascents and descents, besides on acceleration?

I don't know if is going to be answered but ? are you both riding both bike in the same gearing with the same watts

as a guy with a full carbon china bike (excluding shimano drive train, etc), yes i want you to run that test so i can be smug about my risky decision, thanks!

The difference between these bikes is probably overshadowed by the Gaterskin tire. That tire is probably costing you 15 watts on its own.

You should do a video for avg power needed to stay in the bunch following wheels with the group traveling at 30km/h, 40km/h and 45km/h for 10 minutes. According to peak torque aero doesn’t matter when you are following wheels in a group. If the same tires are used so that rolling resistance is the same, by that logic you will see the same power reading.

Good video please do some test on the sl8 against other bikes. I think anything over 4grand for a bike is stupid money, how much does an 6k specialized sl6 , compare to ab top end spec ? Probably not much and double the money bike industry gone crazy

higher end aluminium bikes VS their carbon counter parts (allez sprint and the tarmac SL7, or the emonda ALR and the SLR, for example), with the same wheels/tires, etc

use the same wheel and tyre please. And I would like to see it versus mid tier Giant tcr

Have you tríed the asian bike Tweeter? They have MTB and Roda bikes

I'd be really curious to see a review on some of the smaller up & coming Chinese carbon brands. Elves and Yoeleo are known to be pretty solid frames and well worth it, but then there's also BXT, Seraph, Airwolf, and OG-Evkin all making some rather budget friendly options with supposedly better fabrication than just the old basic bladder. That said the quality control on them is still kind of suspect, especially with the carbon bars and in particular at least it seems, the brand Trifox which, well yeah, Trace Velo hasn't had much luck with the frames he's tested from them.

I’d like to see it against the winspace t1550. I’m kinda interested in that one. I already have their Slc climbing bike which is great.

Test the Falath evo but with same rims, tires and crankset/cassette

Bike comparison idea: Winspace SLC with winspace wheels, midrange parts like 105 di2... against enve melee decked out with top of the line parts. The Enve would probably cost at least double. That's a comparison that would teach us some things. Cheers.

So you add the times together? The single difference was less than 30 seconds for 10,000 dollars?

The problem is that its hard to compare the power from one powermeter to the other. should have done the test with powermeter in the padels and swap them

Vitus Zenium taigra..... just bought it when they had Labor sale.... $1300.... I figure just have to switch out the wheels which to Vision Trimax 30 with Perelli P-zero tires... got them for $250 on Ebay.... switching out the crank to an Ultegra 8000..... bike will weigh in at 18lbs +/- .... that's all I need.. not racing ... yet... thanks for the video....

I would like to see a Yoeleo R12 with same components and Dp 50 pro wheelset and same tires vs the Scott Foil.

Along with tires. Is it just me or were they able to get into better aero positions on the bh.

what about comparing an older SCOTT FOIL with the new one. For example I have the SCOTT Foil 40 with 105 components and Alto CC40 rims

those tires had to cost you at least 30 seconds 😂

Great video Jeff. Quick question, would you ever opt for an Addict vs the Foil in a tighter Crit ? Always accelerating. Less weight would certainly make it easier to accelerate more often

West (scott foil) vs East. Do what trace velo did. Full chinese: x18 trifox / Ltwoo erx groupset / race work carbon crank / elite wheels drive 60d. Test should have a constant tire and tube/tubeless as control as we can all agree that quality tires can give you more speed than going dura ace.

I’d love to see a vid comparing different kit on the same bike. Eg top-end skin suit, aero helmet and overshoes, versus race jersey and shorts, mid-high helmet and shoes, versus T-shirt, baggy shorts, basic helmet and shoes. Same bike/tyres/position/power etc. I bet you’d see a bigger gain than the Scott bs BH for a lot less money!

Tires? What happens if you pop some GP5000s on that BH? Gator skins are vewy vewy slow. My guess is 2% is in that (as someone who owns very expensive bikes…)

Hello guys I’m wondering what bike computer are y’all gonna recommend between $100-$200 price range.

Love the idea of a mid-tier to top-tier comparison, but what about something like a 5-8 year old bike on a 105 or Ultegra groupset and some basic aero wheels. That seems to me to be the real comparison people at a sun-amateur level with some legs are making at home when buying bikes

~5K Chinese bike vs. Scott would be great. Sticking to UCI approved equipment, I suggest the Elilee Blize 01, Magene EXAR DB508 wheelset, built with Ltwoo ERX and using the Elilee crank. Though not an open mold frame comparison, it would be a best of emerging Chinese brands that could be raced at any level vs. your WT-ready Scott. Would be fantastic to hear a "race" report (from Alviso), a ride report and a comparison like this one.

You did this on a long straight route, but how much difference would they be in your typical crit race? I would assume the Scott is more aero which is saving the most time, because weight wise, that pound isn't going to matter too much especially on a 10 minute ride. But overall that BH didn't do bad, especially given the almost 10k price difference.

A few ideas come to mind: 1. Talking about what made Mitch faster despite watts being the same - looks like his arms were better, but is that all it takes to save 10s? His legs look as thick as Jeff's waist, so is he heavier too? Looking at the different spine flexions, I'd like to overlay the golden ratio over them, maybe that's the ideal! 2. A cool follow up would be "how important is aero in a draft?", since staying in the draft is the single most important part of racing (maybe?), and how important is aero in a sprint over 10s, 60s, etc.? 3. Talking about non-aero gains. Weight is the obvious one, followed by rolling resistance, clean/lubed drivetrain; but are there more? How important are they, what's their effort/cost value? The most aero position might not be one's most powerful, which would follow up well with question 2, asking how important is comfort? I'd also vote for reaching out to Elves, even though RCA is doing a decent job with that brand already, I'm just a sucker for their branding. And since I'm talking about ideas, I'd love to see an absurd crossover with Path Less Pedaled; he takes you fly fishing and philosophizing on his channel and you do a bike swap race with him on yours or something.

I’d rather see the test results for the same bike in the different versions. How about the entry level foil versus the foil pro?

I want to see a climbing test at 300 watts! Emonda SLR9 vs ALR. 😂

Please do an elves falath pro on carbon wheelset (w/ conti gp5000 tires) and at least on a 105 group set comparison. This will be interesting!!

If you put deep section wheels and aero handlebar diferent would be very small

There is some serious problematic math going on in the results. You can't add both total times and base your total savings on the difference between them. You have to go and divide 56 seconds by 2, because it was two separate riders. The true savings is an average of 28 seconds, which in the cycling world is still significant, but way less significant than 56 seconds. As many have mentioned already, not using the same tires is a critical error in this test too. Same tires and PSI are required to get a more accurate result. Lastly, the savings overall of an aero bike are most significant over long distances - the longer the ride, the better the savings.

Would love to see the Allez sport compared to these as well as any of the Chinese brands you showed in the video

would love to see a budget pimp my ride style video of the BH bike. see if you can breathe some fresh life back into it and see how much of that 4% difference can be made up while just doing small simple upgrades. (GP5000 + TPU Tube, wax chain, slam stem, and maybe upgrade to a good bank for buck set of carbon wheels like hyper, elite, etc or find a second hand set) i bet that bike can be a lot faster with a few simple tweaks even without new wheels