+David H. As a Brit, but also a proud Europeanist, I would have to say that of course we are friends. However, if the UK votes to leave, of course the negotiation would be "us" versus "them." Leaders of the 27 remaining EU members would want to maintain trade, I think they would readily accept British membership of the EEA, or something like CETA or even a Swiss arrangement. In each of these cases, the EU member states would be able to sell the agreement to their people, and stave of a complete disintegration of the whole project. EEA would offer a minimum of economic disruption, and would give back some sovereignty to the UK, but the UK electorate would have to accept continues free movement and continued payment (at a reduced rate) into the EU budget, without having any representation within European institutions. A CETA-style accord would offer the UK electorate what they want - a general free trade agreement, with no payment into the EU budget - but they would have to accept that there would be limitations. Any products that are not "majority produced" in the UK would be subject to appeal, and possibly tariffs. Also, there would obviously be no special treatment for the City. A Swiss style accord might be more acceptable, but it would be super complicated, and would of course include free movement. Essentially, the states of the EU have their own constituents and interests to bear in mind. They can't give the UK so good a deal as to encourage other states to leave. Also, remember that the EU member states would coordinate. According to Lisbon, as soon as the UK voted to leave, they would lose all voting rights where the exit negotiations were concerned. It's not a question of friendship, it's a question of national interest.

+Wilson Lawson They represent governments by countries which are elected.. I'd have people in power selected by people of knowledge of economics/EU than plain people. And, House of lords is not entirely elected either.. Your queen isn't elected either.

+Jimiie The Commonwealth?

+David H. absolutely!!!! The sooner we are out the better!

+Wilson Lawson Wikipedia (among others) states that "Europeanism is a term that encapsulates the norms and values that Europeans have in common, and which transcend national or state identity. In addition to helping promote the integration of the European Union, this doctrine also provides the basis for analyses that characterise European politics, economics, and society as reflecting a shared identity." I would argue that by simple grammatical rules, someone who subscribes to "Europeanism" is a "Europeanist". As for you statement about the European Commission making decisions, and being unelected, I have a few things to say. 1) The President of the European Commission is indirectly elected by the citizens of the EU, from whom all EU law derives. In the last European Parliamentary Election, each European Political Party (PES, EPP, ALDE, etc.) selected a candidate. These candidates then debated each other several times. It was agreed that whichever candidate's party received a plurality of the vote would become President. The EP (which is elected by proportional representation) has the right to refuse each Commission candidate, or the Commission as a whole. The EP can also recall the European Commission. 2) Each member of the Commission is selected by his or her national government. Therefore, the "British" Commissioner was appointed by the democratically elected government of the UK, and we pretty much always get a Commissioner related to trade in some way because of our considerable influence. 3) The Commission very rarely passes legislation independently. Under "ordinary" decision procedure, the European Council (made up of the democratically elected heads of state and of government of the EU) sets the agenda. The European Commission (with an indirectly elected President and 28 members appointed by the democratic states of the EU), in a collegial manner, proposes legislation. This legislation goes to the directly, and proportionally elected European Parliament, who make amendments. This is then passed on to the Council of the European Union, made up of the democratically elected ministers of each state in the Union who are responsible for this area of legislation. They then amend the legislation once more and pass it back to the EP. Assuming the legislation passes this process, it goes to the National Parliaments of the European Union, who can now halt the law by a qualified majority (a majority of parliaments, representing a majority of citizens) which is known as a "Red Card". National parliaments can also individually call a law into question on the grounds that it contravenes the principle of "subsidiarity," whereby decisions should be made by those closest to the citizens they effect (this is known as a "Yellow Card"). The fact that we allow our politicians to claim ignorance on the goings on of the EU is our own problem. In fact, most of the so-called "democratic deficit" which we perceive in the UK is down to our own government's unwillingness to offer us any degree of transparency or accountability on their own actions in the EU. We get our own way 70+% of the time in the EU, yet it suits our politicians to make it look like it's more like 30+% of the time.

Ian F well you may laugh your ass off but the point that Lamont is making is that politicians around a table do not control trade. Whisky tariffs was said to be the sticking point by Karel De Gucht and that trade barriers would lead the UK's economy being a basket case. My point is that trade went up regardless of tariffs, because customers want they want and Scottish whiskey is the best in the world

How is this not nerdy?

+minilymo So does the EU after Brexit ;-) Don`t expect special treatment any longer. Don`t answer, you have to feel the consequences so it seems.

+hooby marburg you mean special treatment like charging us money to buy your goods? or stealing our fishing waters?

Ireland won't need the tax laws that much anymore, given it does not need to compete against the UK anymore: it will be the only English speaking common law country inside the single market. But regardless, Ireland has a veto over the tax policy.

Good for Norman - stand firm.

+latexcitizenx Britain (or whats left of it, after Scottland, Ireland, perhabs even Wales wants to leave ;-D at war with the EU? What did Churchill know about the power of future financial industries and that guys like Murdoch could brainwash a whole nation?

hooby marburg Ireland left the UK in 1922. Scotland voted in majority to remain in the UK in September 2014. In Wales the nationalist party Plaid Cymru has never won a majority in either UK, EU, or national assembly elections. Churchill contended with Mussolini and the power of his corporatist fascism. He would have been well aware of how Hitler cooked the books and brainwashed his nation with propaganda, embracing the technologies of the time. Being "at war" with the EU would be no bad thing. They have no army, allegedly. Avoiding war with the individual nation states of Europe is what we want to achieve. Without the EU we would have many friends to turn to, rely on, accommodate, trade with and negotiate, rather than a characterless bureaucratic proxy representative.

latexcitizenx How will the world welcome a Brition (rather the minority you are speaking for), that is so unable to get along with its neighbours right next to it? But please, keep on believing that paradise is near, as soon as Brexit is confirmed. By the way, in the next 2 years after Brexit, nothing will change very much, so be patient ;-) But I`m afraid it won`t happen, thus don`t waste your precious time here on YT. Convince your neighbours, your friends and relatives. Get yourself an oldfashioned soupbox and keep on preaching in the middle of an english marketplace. Anyhow, you have to invest a lot more to achieve what you are wishing for. I`ll keep my fingers crossed for you ;-)

+hooby marburg I'm speaking for myself, not a collective minority. I'm under no illusions of "paradise". I am patient. I have time to spare. The cliche is "on a soapbox" and mine would be in Glasgow, Scotland if I were an old fashioned type of guy. You have no idea in what or where I invest the majority of my time and effort. Thanks. :-)

latexcitizenx So thats no contradiction to what I wrote. (One vote is the smallest minority, isn`t it?) I`m holding a minority position as well ;-) A positive thing of a Brexit could be, that it could be a real and serious wake up call the EU urgently needs.

+logical fruit Not really, they are afraid it will just hurt Britian and EU countries for stupid reasons

+Jimiie I don't think they care if the UK gets hurt that much is obvious. These Europhiles only care about the project good luck to them. The domino effect will take place Greece, Spain and Italy. Are Eurosceptic countries it only takes 1 party to promise a Referendum on EU membership

logical fruit No, it is in EU's interst for UK to do well. This EU are leaders of european countries. They are not a bunch of random people who seek power. The stronger the UK, the better for every country in the EU. Leaving the EU will hurt everyone, and especially Brittian. These rules set by the EU are to make EU function better. It is not fair for example, an apple to weight 100gram in one country as a law, and another country to weight 200gram. This creates unfair competition which hurts countries. I hope you understand

Jimiie The eurozone has failed, 4 counties not sectors but actual countries needed to be bailed out Greece had to bailed out twice and maybe even a third time! The UE is growing in population and landmass but is shrinking economically the % in trade has fallen over the last 20 years. Why anyone thought it was a good idea to link the Portuguese Greek, Italian and spanish currency to the Euro is beyond me? these people are stupid or they are committed to political project no matter what.

logical fruit It is not true. There is no proof the bailout was 100% due to the EU. There were ballouts in the USA and UK as well. Why not mention that? Why not mention that 2008 was a crisis that every country was hurt. It is fabricated just to hate the EU. If there was a better EU cohesion there wouldn't be this big economic effect. Countries like Britain and other have practically sabotages the EU by demanding less regulations. It has clearly failed. Every country which has joined the EU has become richer and safer. Those are facts you cant argue about. Purchasing power Spain from 7.800 euro to 23.000 euro in 20 years. Same for every single EU country. You all want to blame the EU for your domestic problems, but the problems are clearly in your own country. EU is not perfect. The 2008 crisis made EU make regulations for that not to happen again. Just trying to blame anything for your own problems.

+Jukebox Jonnie Yeah, because we want to be governed by canary warf and guys like Murdock;-D

David Fisher You're leaving a club and yet you expect free lunches?... How delusional can you be?...