One big issue with high dpi is that many games don't let you set very low in-game sensitivity to compensate

The TLDR is: You're brushing up against diminishing returns at 1000hz. There's some benefit past there, but you probably won't notice it as a human interfacing with an input device. The other mouse features / shape / weight / feel will have substantially more impact. Thanks for the tests as always. Some of the best honestly.

The only thing it does it hertz your wallet

absolutely love the transparency across all the tests you do on the channel, good job as always man

Once again, you are the benchmark when it comes to interesting tech videos like this. Great work dude!

Really thoughtful, rational and researched commentary on our gaming hobby, as always. Thanks!

Im so grateful for this, a lot of other people have been taking about it, but its so nice to hear it from what is a bigger channel. Shape, weight, and sensor implemntation will matter more than polling rates, at least right now. And I've heard stories--granted heard--of people experincing more latency in polling rates due to increased CPU usage.

Great explanation of what polling rate actually means during gameplay, straight to the point. I really appreciate how in-depth you go and the graphics you use to visually understand the concepts. This type of content is very important to keep customer informed so we can make informed decisions on our purchases, instead of buying the new piece of tech just because it has a bigger number

I really appreciate not only the level of detail you put into your videos, but also the way you explain things. It’s very easy to understand and well thought out. That and your camera work and editing is awesome.

Don’t forget the CPU impact. It’s barely noticeable on a modern CPU but on an older one my 2000Hz corsair Dark Core can use up to 30% CPU usage when moving the mouse 😆

Thanks for the clear explanation of polling rates and how it affects smoothness. Your explanations are always very clear and easy to understand.

This is why this channel is my favorite when it comes to peripheral testing. No hyping up useless meat swinging by the manufacturers.

You are hands down the best tech reviewer/informer on youtube currently

There is a misconception about polling rate The polling rate is not variable. The set polling rate isn't an option for the mouse, it is mandatory. The mouse is being polled at a fixed rate, hence it can not dynamically vary. The reason why mousetester reports less updates is because some polls don't have any new data to give, for two reasons: 1. The mouse sensor didn't update. Sensor framerate is variable, at low movement speeds you can easily drop below 4000 FPS 2. The sensor doesn't have new data because the DPI is too low. A movement might have been registered by the sensor itself, but not worthy of reporting as a step. So even if only every 4th packet or so might contain data that registers as an "update", this will be more consistent than 1000hz. Consider a situation, in which there is only a position update from the sensor every 1.1 milliseconds, be that because of framerate or because the dpi is low. Now you have a situation in which you have an update that mostly occurs every poll but sometimes skips one. With 4000hz, the variance shrinks, because now you are talking about either 4 or 5 polls, which is a stark reduction in overall variance. Basically: A higher polling rate gets your absolute data output closer to what the sensor outputs. This is more important than latency imo, 1ms->0.25ms is probably not noticeable at all, but inconsistent mouse movement might be. Even at 400 dpi, the data output will be technically smoother. Not a comment on noticeability, but raw data. If I have made a glaring mistake, feel free to point it out.

Brilliant work as always, but what I am most impressed by is the ingenuity. In almost every video I hear you say "So I made this"....love it. Keep the content coming!

I just want to let a comment here cause i love your work and your videos. I found them really useful and that's not the first time that i watch one of your videos to have an answer about things like the video is talking about. So big thanks ! And continue like that !

I went deep down that rabbit hole. Maxed out my dpi and polling rates on my viper signature edition for a while. The differences are negligible. Turns out mouse shape is king. I’ve spent a lot of money on mice to just find myself using a cheap Lamzu Atlantis and running it at 2K. Love the content.

The only guy to listen to when it comes to all kinds of latency tests, love you mate great video as always :)

Ali has the best graphs on youtube. its not even close. a non tech person could follow along easily

It might be interesting to see a test that measures whether higher polling rate lowers input latency for the beginning and end of a motion. In all practicality, I think it says enough that the polling rate being lowered due to battery level wasn’t noticeable. It would be interesting though to see if there’s a perceivable difference in slow-mo.

This is the exact kind of content we all need and I really appreciate your channel for investigating things like this. I love my mouse but have kinda dipped my toes into changing for 4K hz, but now I can just be happy with my perfectly good mouse.

The only Tech KZfaqr I trust, never have I seen such a good competitive gamer-reviewer

Thank you! Perfectly aligns with every assumption I've made about increasing the polling rate beyond 1000 Hz. There's no way something that makes less than a millisecond of difference is going to impact user performance in any way at all.

LOL Seeing this was eye-opening And people arguing over the internet and being brand victims just really shows now. Thanks for covering this interesting topic. It really reminds me of harmony and balance of building a PC. It's the same scenario as when people will buy a beefy GPU and think they are all set. They forget that they need to upgrade other components aswell e.g. RAM, CPU, PSU etc. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. It's just so funny when people buy 4K dongles and play on a 75Hz monitor. I'll send this to everyone now who even tries to be a smart-arse on this department.

In reality, going over 1000 Hz doesn't work well with certain games. I have the DAv3 with the 4k Hz dongle, and some games couldn't register my mouse input at 4k. You know, almost like the game engine wasn't built to get that amount of mouse data. The result was the framerate would tank and you'd have to set it back to 1k again. I'd recommend trying 2k on several different FPS's and see if the game is playable.

Thank you for making this. This obsession over latency is damaging the mouse space. I feel like people have become more focused on trying to appreciate the companies that are doing the most "hard work", rather than trying to find mice that actually feel better in hand.

this man doesn't miss good job Mr optimum always so precise and on point without a lot of filler

First of all great video, I love your testing methodology very accurate and significant results, definitely one of the best KZfaq channels about tech. And about polling I still keep my mice at 1000 don't really care to go beyond that especially if it's a wireless mouse, to me battery life has more value than 4k or 2k polling. I got the GPX2 aswell after I got a wheel button issue with my viper ultimate and I got 4 friends who had the same problem with basilisks and deathadders (weirdly happened to all of us in the last couple of months). So i ditched Razer and went for the gpx2 and all the people complain about the missing 4k polling I think it's just placebo when they read the higher number and they just feel glorious PC master race.

As someone with a 360hz monitor who has bought a couple 4k hz mice and didn't notice a difference, this video made me feel a lot better.

finally an optimum video, love your content bro

Honestly love your videos man, the quality and atmosphere is just great.

winton overwat

Somehow these videos just keep getting better and better

the quality of your content is from other world, no bull$#!t, great explanations, great examples, very deep tests shown very clearly, love your channel

i know you say you cant feel it but i have a mouse that has 4k hz and when i first tried it, before i even considered 4k hz my tracking felt just a little more "telepathic" and when i turned off 4k to try and save the battery life i definitely felt that go away. could it be placebo? absolutely, but im usually pretty good at not being affected by placebo from the couple bad supplement purchases Ive made 😅

Turns out Logitech actually knew what they were doing when they stopped at 2k polling rate

Thanks for making these videos. I guess this could be the future but it really seems a bit pointless at the moment, specially considering the worse battery life and increased CPU load

(Commenting before watching) got an x2v2 mini with the 4khz dongle and played around with it for a bit. Tried it before being fully dialed in and didn't notice any difference while tracking at least. For very large flicks I can imagine it being a tiny bit more consistent because of the more accurate position delta. Main issue I had with 4khz is, that older source games like tf2 don't support anything above 2khz polling rate. (the cursor stutters a lot) (this part is after watching) About what I expected, I would like to see comparisons between stopping points on very large flicks, if that's at all testable, but unless there's like three pixels of difference, I would prefer a longer battery life and not having an led on the dongle :) -Note, I play on a 144hz qd-oled panel so that will obviously affect my perception compared to a ridiculously high refresh rate monitor.

Sorry in advance for the wall of text lol. Your videos really are great but I don't think enough was tested here on this one, I always thought the same thing that the cursor above 1000 hz doesn't appear different visually if moving it in a line. Showing this test was really cool to see confirm this but the biggest and most important thing about 4000 hz in my experience is the the feel of how much snappier the mouse is, I play super low sens around 80 cm for a 360 so small fast movements are much more noticable. Moving the mice in a straight line isn't going to show how well high polling can handle instant changes in direction, at 4000 hz tracking a fast moving target with erratic movement or just quick target switching in general just feels so much more instant. In my head it's like wanting to see some car acceleration tests between two cars, but the only test is showing the can both reach the same speed if that makes sense lol. Not a 4k hz shill though, I feel like most don't need to worry about it still unless it's someone who really wants the focus on pure aiming. There are some issues too, not just battery drain but as of now on Windows 10 doesn't handle high polling rates of 4000hz-8000hz very well, from what I read the extra polling is applied to multiple programs in the backround and causes extra unnecessary CPU usage. I was on CS2 one day trying 4000 hz on my Viper V2 and the Deathadder V3 wired at 8000hz and noticed I get massive fps drop if I move the mouse fast, in lower end games where you have a ton of frames though it's not an issue. Apparently Windows 11 fixes this polling issue though, but I haven't tried it myself. I'm rambling a bit now but at the end of the day the shape still is the one of the most important things so don't waste money on a 4k mouse just because it's 4k, I still go back to my G305 more than anything since I'm more consistent with shape compared to the Viper V2 Pro. But if it's a great shape you like a lot, you can't go wrong getting a 4k version of it. You can drop to 1-2k hz anyways to save battery life if you don't wanna use it much. I'd pay some good money to get a 4k G305 though lmao

that was a really fascinating test, I love the method you used. Definitely helped to clear up the confusion I had between the relationship between DPI, monitor refresh rate, and mouse polling rate. Keep it up!

Thanks for this. I have been using the razer orochi v2 since it came out and have had 0 issues.... But was getting caught up in the hype around 4k and 8k polling and thought it would be worth an upgrade. After seeing this and due to how acclimated I am to the orochi. I'm just going to stick with it until it gives out on me

7:06 that tracer one clip is fire though

I was surprised by this. I've been using the Razer Viper 8K @ 8000Hz polling rate on a 144Hz monitor, and it feels smoother when I move the mouse quickly, especially in comparison to my Logitech G Pro Wireless @1000Hz polling rate. I expected that the difference would be even more pronounced when paired with a monitor that has a 240Hz to 540Hz refresh rate. It would be interesting to see a wired mouse in any future tests. (however Windows seems to struggle with the 8000Hz rate, causing some stuttering. But when it does work smoothly, even for just a few minutes, the difference in performance is apparent.) Excellent content as always! One of the few channels I click instantly when I see a new video!

Again, you have RIDICULOUSLY high quality videos man. You NEVER miss. Keep it up, loved the information and graphics in this video.

I still a big believer in the feel of the mouse over everything else. I love my Xtrfy-wireless MZ1, its 1000 pulling rate. I have had 0 issue being competitive. The feel and look of the mouse is great. The only thing I wish it had that it doesn't is some kind of GUI interface that I can turn off and on but at the same time it can respect not putting more bloat software on my computer.

man you are realy taking these videos and testings to another level compared to other reviewers. keep up the good job, love your videos

NOTE for Windows 10 users: 1. Having a polling rate of 2000hz or higher causes issues with the Windows snapping feature. It works fine if you use a single screen, but if you have multiple and want to move a window to another monitor you have to move your mouse really fast or it WILL get stuck at the screen edge. There is no workaround other than disabling the snapping feature under Multitasking, by installing Windows 11 or manually setting the polling rate to 1000hz or lower when you are not gaming.

Does this man NOT build a test setup for everything lol. SO prepared for everything! Love it! Always appreciate the ingenuity and effort put into production of these videos. Thank you!

honestly the only thing that i wish you tested for is whether or not the higher polling rate reduces overall mouse drift

What I look for in a mouse: back and forward buttons DPI increase/decrease buttons wireless rechargeable RGB and as a bonus: wings at the bottom to keep my thumb and pinky finger from rubbing on the mouse pad. If a mouse has all that, I am happy.

Great video! I just got G Pro X Superlight 2...and realized on my 165Hz 1000Hz polling works a lot better then 2000Hz, let alone 4000 (whic is now supported on Superlight 2)! On my setup with 1440p2165Hz, 1000hz polling results in more accuracy for me...I have set it for 800dpi @ 1000hz

Long time subscriber, rare commenter - just wanted to say great work, thank you and keep it up. The quality of the videos, experimentation, presentation of the data in this space and other items you cover in your channel provide incredible value to the community - helps us see past some of the marketing and the gimmicks companies are touting. Big Thanks!

Amazing job as always. I'm completely fan of technology and I really appreciate your content. As always, amazing job, great transparency, you're putting this to the next level. Thank you !

I think we can all agree optimum is the only KZfaqr I can trust when it comes to gaming peripherals

Bought the Ninjutso Sora 4K as my first higher polling rate mouse and honestly the battery drainage is hella annoying. Have been using 4k and 2k hz and honestly I've never thought "oh wow this is a game changer". Great mouse otherwise though lol. Kinda figured higher polling rates have been a gimmick considering alot of FPS pros still use 1k hz and you know... still dominate

Polling rate is the last thing you should consider when buying a new mouse. Shape, skates, switches, sensor, mcu, weight even coating is more important imo. + you spend additional amount of money for the dongle and you sacrifice 2 to 8 times of battery life for stressing your cpu to get no benefits irl. Poor marketing strategy as always.

This was very helpful!!! I too questioned these things and by the grace of the KZfaq gods, this video comes up! What are the chances!!

HOLEE SHEET!! that stick at 5:35 insane!

Hi optimum, great video as always, is there any chance you'll be doing a video on keyboard latency? Different keyboards, mechanical vs optical/analog?

Would be also cool to see if you could tell the difference in the click latency as that also changes with the higher polling rates. If anyone can figure out how to test that meaningfully it is you. Keep up the insane quality videos that we all tune in to watch!

So my thinking on this is that 2000 is probably the "soft cap" where you stop being able to perceive it, while 4000-8000 is the "hard cap" where it stops giving any gain at all like a higher headshot percentage. Simulator to where, technically our eyes dynamically change their framerate around 255-500 which is the "soft cap". While technically having higher gives better stats but realistically the hard cap is like 800-1000 hz. Where there is no more reasonable gain.

Clear and concise. Great video! I referred back to this video when I considered getting the razer 8k dongle for my DAV3 since I’m upgrading my 165hz monitor to the xl2566k, but I don’t think I need to spend the extra $40CAD.

I think the difference may be noticeable when you changing direction of cursor. Higher mouse refresh rate could register movement earlier. But it will affect at maximum one frame per direction change, and at 540hz it is less then 2 ms. And i think that no human can tell the difference in 2 ms.

You should also check click response times with 1000, 2000, and 4000hz. Any mouse > 1000hz will require USB high speed which should give up to 750us less input latency, although it may require the full 8000hz high speed offers to get that, unsure.

That cursor test was very obvious showing a difference. Flicking to headshots that small inconsistency can cost you in game. I've been waiting for my deathadder v3 faker edition for weeks and this made me actually lean more towards the 4k dongle lol. I think the faker edition, for the price, should have come with the dongle tho. Great video as usual!

My confusion related to dpi and pulling rate got celared he explains the stuff very good

I have a razer viper v2 pro based on your testing. As soon as I got it, I noticed a massive difference, way more consistent and accurate

Another thing that I didn't hear mentioned in the video is that an increase in polling rate above 1k can heavily strain the CPU and cause noticeable frame drops.

Great video; thank you.

RocketJumpNinja eat your heart out. Wow this is the best testing I've seen for high polling.

Legitimately the only youtuber I trust to know what he's talking about. you're clearly very good at whatever it is you play to be aware of all the things that you are, Thanks for all the knowledge bombs brother, Hopefully you'll help push companies to stop ignoring things that actually matter for esports

I upgraded from the Deathadder elite to the Deathadder v3 wired a few months ago thinking it would improve my gameplay even just by a little (and because I needed a new mouse), but it honestly just felt kind of the same, definitely lighter and a bit smoother and more responsive than the elite but just like mentioned in the video the difference is minuscule and you don't really notice it when playing. While the mouse is great, at least in my opinion which may be biased because I have been using Deathadder mice since I was 12 and I love the shape and the less weight, I don't think anyone should go and buy a mouse just because it has double the polling rate of their current one.

Thank you for clarifying this and going through such an extensive test!

This is the best down to ground explanation video ever. thank you!

I initially took the high polling rate numbers as marketing bs, and after this video I was almost right as there doesn't seem to be much of a difference or any at all. But if I were to buy a new mouse (got g502x, mainly for productivity), I'd get the superlight 2 for a better edge on gaming

r/mousereview in shambles

The issue with playing at higher than 800DPI is that most games don't allow a low enough sensitivity to be set to have the same sensitivity that most pro FPS players use. Which would be anywhere between 30-50cm for 360 degrees in the game. Keep up the good work!

Ali, ty for your videos, you really one of the best tech bloggers on KZfaq, so interesting every time, which you good luck

I'd be interested in some more work being done on the high polling rate space. We reach diminishing returns past 1000 Hz, but what if we downsample from 4000 to 1000? Would the mouse input theoretically be more stable if you take an average of the 4x extra data in that 1x time? There's still a bit of potential for high polling rates past 1000 Hz at mid-high DPIs I think, personally.

Agree to disagree about not being able to notice the difference between 1k and 2k polling. Set a previous gen GPX at 1k polling, 1600 DPI, then the GPX2 to 2k polling 1600 DPI. Swipe around each mouse in-game. The 2k is noticeably smoother.

thank you for such thorough testing you do on behalf of pc gamers. you are the best

Thanks for doing this testing. I am a casual gamer, and I can easily tell the difference between 500hz and 1000hz. I incorrectly assumed those 8000hz mice would offer a comparable jump in smoothness. I'm glad that's not the case and that I can just stick to my cheap mice :)

This channel is sooo insane!!!!!

You can still feel differences which you can't see. The machine would remove the testing of feel.

Great video man. Loving the recent content. Super super excited for your upcoming vid on windows / os tweaks. Looking forward to seeing more of your content, much love

About the "why not" at the end of the video, I heard that high polling rate can effect some games in a bad way if you dont have a good pc or the game itself is poorly optimized, is it true? I heard this rumor while searching for Apex Legends optimization tips, the game engine is old and the game itself is poorly optimized, ofc i have no way to truely test this Btw super good video, good editing and great testing methods, subscribed

One thing to mention that I have noticed when I was testing polling rates was that my fps would drop by alot (around 300 fps give or take on valorant) when swaying or just general movement with 1k polling rate on, whilst on 500hz, it was only 100 or less. I'm not sure what exactly is happening, how much it actually affects your gaming, and if something worse happens at higher polling rate. I know you probably won't feel it since anything above 240 fps just makes it a tiny bit smoother, but its still something to be a little concerned about.

my mouse has 8000hz but my cpu is too shit so i cant use it💀

man that animation with the hertz and showing delay was top notch, I find it hard to understand things alot of the time but that was perfect

This guy is so cracked at overwatch damn

Things like click latency can be much lower at higher polling rates.

Am I the weird guy for using a 16 *THOUSAND* DPI 😅

I really love your honesty

The curser in game is moving way to slow to see a difference. Even 500hz was practically no different at that speed. The curser test isn’t just because it’s flat. But because it’s moving way faster. Same with high refresh, the faster the movement the easier it is to see.

Let me save you some time, it doesnt matter.

You should measure this with a much faster actuator since at higher mouse movement speeds there will be more of a difference

Crazy good video! You're bringing gaming-tech to the next level. Keep it up!

guys all you need is the g pro superlight x , it's the only mouse anyone should use.

There is zero difference at slow mouse movements, but there is a visible difference even for the windows cursor at very fast movements. You do not state at which speed the mouse was moved, which is basically the most important parameter in this test from a physics perspective. Figure out the fastest flicks people do (1m/s or a bit more maybe?) and replicate that speed in your machine if you want the most relevant results. Thanks for the great videos!

Amazing content! Straight to the point. Useful information that not many influencers provide nowadays.