He's saying that the shooter used religion to justify his actions. The desire to do what he did fuelled him to seek for vindication of his actions.

Most religions and homosexuality don't mix.

AfroCharlieable Exactly if he did not have his religion there would be less of a chance he would have killed.

Chops Sympathy oh no he still would've killed, he just would of had a different reasoning. Anyway, I'm not trying to avoid the discussion of religion as it's being brought up as a way for American conservatives to not have to alter gun laws by blocking those ideas with bigotry and islam-phobia. The issue is with who he attacked and how and a much deeper why than just fitting him into an appropriate box

AfroCharlieable Islamic law is different to the bible. We have separated religion from law.

Yep. "Lunatic" is way too broad. And calling them "homophobic" is also way too broad. It was very specific type of homophobia and, unless we can recognize where that homophobia comes from, we won't be able to address it. Guess what it is that I am referring to.

He was a lunatic.

There is a difference between a lunatic and a psycho. The latter is a criminal who knows what he is doing...

Nope. Lunatic is perfect. The germ of the original idea that warped reasoning and resulted in "kill a particular grouping of people" is irrelevant. Otherwise we might rank (or excuse some of) those original views by "reasonableness".

Exactly. The 20th century was littered with mass murderers. To denounce them all as 'mad' or 'evil' is juvenile.

He states it has something to do with 'a weird twisted view of Islamic fundamentalism' which is correct

Left meets left problems I guess. He's conflicted... He doesn't want to admit that an extreme religious nut did it because as an extreme left winger himself he'd then have to admit a group he defends hate the group he belongs to..... What a tangled Web they weave... Still.. It'll be someone else's fault so phew... No face lost

Craig Pearson yeah that’s the issue with identity politics. Muslims are victims so it can’t come from that. It’s from homophobia, that white male phenomenon, and somehow it’s led this poor Muslim astray.....

@@ballbagboris5699 it's not weird or twisted at all. Hating homosexuals is the most plausible, rational, literal interpretation of the Qur'an

@@TheCheweeRevolutions possibly

Owen was actually wrong in the end. www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

@@torontolarrivee7965 that’s fair enough months after the fact now the new evidence has come to light. But in the immediate aftermath with only the information they had at hand at the time Julia was utterly pathetic to try and suggest it wasn’t a homophobic attack. She’s a right wing looney who regularly appears on British TV to deny covid is a threat and spout nonsense.

@@obiwankenobi687 Come on. Clearly the rational approach is to remain agnostic as to the motivations of a mass shooting until we have the available facts. I don't know anything about the looney right wing host-- I don't even really understand what point she's trying to make. But Owen is also being silly here -- he has no grounds for being absolutely certain that homophobia was the modus operandi, or for denying that religion played a role. We just need to be honest about all of this and not pretend he was making sense in his speculation while she was being pathetic. They're both talking through their hats.

They weren't denying anything. They were trying to have a fair and balanced discussion. They weren't trying to create a twitter echo chamber

@@obiwankenobi687 In my opinion Owen Jones is a left wing looney. But that's okay because he's a box ticker and fits the current agenda of mainstream media organisations.

Evil doesn't exists.

It does, it's just not a force of nature.

No. It was an attack on the LGBTQ community. To say the whole western world was attacked is to marginalize the victims and continue to not identify who these targets were.

Yes which is why I completely understand Owen’s frustration. Why do they refuse to admit it was a homophobic attack? Strange

@@EmilyRose1 they acknowledged several times that it was a homophobic attack. What they are debating is whether or not it was a coincidence that he just happened to be a Muslim, or whether his religious beliefs motivated the attack.

Oh enough with the letters ffs....what's going to be added next!!

He walked off because he is weak.

FFS every letter in the alphabet will be used soon🤦

@@steverowe3 Fffs - an inclusive society, how redic!

That wasn't they were alking about at all. They agreed with Jones whole heartedly and then tried to move on to other parts of the coverage. "How dare they use normal conventions of language to espress there opinion, they should be expect to be completely ignored and then condenscended too."

Because he is a criminal.

The corporate media doesn't talk about homophobia except a Muslim is involved with it

+Alex Kirwin The IRA never claimed to be fighting a holy war.

+Alex Kirwin "religion has nothing to do with it". Even though the killer most certainly said it did?

WRONG, the perp even contacted the US gov before that attack to tell them it WAS motivated by his religion. Islame. Ya know, the one founded by MoHamPig.

Or even people say “this is a race issue” when it clearly isn’t. Owen is 100% wrong here.

also Canada has like 3 people

The USA literally has more guns in circulation in 2021 than they have citizens

@@animebabe44 The USA has more guns in circulation than there are guns on earth!!

Actually Canada does have more guns per adult. So dies Switzerland.

Dude that's like wanting to see a MMA fight between some toddler and Rico Verhoeven. I'm as interested to learn more about the MMA skills of a random toddler as I am interested to gain more insight in the unstable and shallow peabrain of this Owen character.

I would absolutely love to see that

In a gang bang face off.....? Its the only time Owen would win

Milo Yiannopoulos would be a million times better

@@notv_internetuser3789 yes, but I think Owen has already said he won't do that.

He certainly can’t. He has his blinkers on. Really shouldn’t be in the public eye.

Ya, because he just say's the same thing over again wihout listening and then they agree with him and try to move on to the next point.

She did agree that is was a homophobic attack as well. I feel that they're exploring other reasons behind the attack for the sake of discussion. Also it's not 100% clear whether the gun nut was homophobic due to religion or not. It's just mentioned that he saw two guys kissing and was repulsed by it. Of course the attack was specifically against the LGBT community but here they are just opening it up for a debate on who is to blame, whether the cause is homophobia brought on by his religion or not, and of course discussing the old lack of gun control.

Just wait til they get more leverage. Then we'll see who the real bigots & control freaks are! The only difference will be the heathenistic, immoral lifestyle which can easily (for now) be disguised as 'live & let live' mentality.

Couldn't agree more.

More like because they wouldn't listen to him and they kept on playing the homophobic part of the incident down when that's clearly what it was.

It was a silly interview, bit of a set up really

Tory by any chance mate?

Right wing fascist idiot .

Agreed, I don’t like Owen Jones but he made a pretty fair point here. The hosts seemed to be quite ignorant.

Absolutely, imagine telling a Jewish person Auschwitz happened to people not Jews and that they can't claim ownership of the tragedy.

He felt disregarded, I wouldn't stay either.

@@ausmr654 TRUE

It wasn't a targeted attack on the alphabet gang. He picked pulse nightclub at the last minute. His motive was for retaliation for air strikes done by USA. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Motive

Because the point is that few rascist take there veiws to such violent extremes. Just like here them pointing out his homophebia however true doesn't correlate to a shooting as an obvious result. Whoever does these attacks are insane and extremist by a large degree even compared to the minority group of there perspective.

I’m a Canadian, and yes.... we do have more guns per person. The difference is WHOSE hands those guns are in. Canada has more rules, sanctions and regulations around who can get one. Most Canadian gun owners are rural hunters and trap line folk.

@@anourtine6204 I understand who uses guns primarily in Canada and why. I still don't believe that there are more guns per person. With 10× the population and less regulations, I'd find it hard to believe that there are more guns in Canada than in the USA. Maybe registered guns? That's possible because they have to be registered to a licensed owner here where as things are much more open in America.

@@jessefram2432 Canada actually has less guns per person than the US (35 guns per 100 people vs. 120), but theoretically we could have more guns per person but still have less guns overall than the US because of the population difference.

Y SkyNews Bother with This Childish Jones He Not Right in the Head

Can't have them being told the truth

LOL

His wee temper brewing.

He had enough of their nonsense. Its interesting to see how both interviewees on that panel have progressed.

Amen

Why? In 2016, in even the most liberal parts of the Western world, the LGBT community is still discriminated against by law. As Jones says in this clip, people in his own society find him to be 'repulsive'. Like other marginalised groups, the LGBT community has suffered for decades from ridicule, violence and hate. And yesterday the entire world was reminded that the LGBT community is still threatened. Even in Florida. Owen Jones is angry, and he should be.

Why? Because Owen stopped listening to what the other two were saying thus responding to what he _thought_ they were saying.

Mr Kush Ah the Irony! I was just asking for odds on that. The question that cannot be answered is did his Islamic upbringing instill a sense of self loathing that led to this disaster? I would put it on the cards.

+Straight talking or it can be staged to take the peoples rights

I just watched the whole thing and really couldn't understand why he was going so nuts.

***** That's fair. I could imagine some people do that.

Human rights is no agenda

It wasn't an anti-LGBT attack. Even left-leaning Vox has reported this: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

How? They were literally repeating over and over again it was a homophobic attack I don't know wtf more he wanted. Was absolutely weird. Stop saying they're lunatics? No, ok they're totally rational then

yes it was creepy

But they call Islamic State 'So Called Islamic State'. That's pretty BBC of them. Fear not. Also the likes of Shami Chakrabarti and Owen Jones would not even go on Sky News if they thought they were anything like Fox News. The UK does not have a real right wing tv MSM. Newspapers... now that's a different matter.

The UK can't have a TV service like FOX news. It's part of the Broadcasting Act that all broadcast television and radio news services have to be impartial.

+Ryan Morrison LOL!

That means that none of the alphabet national networks from eh USA would be allowed. ABC, CBS, NBC, et al

***** No, he doesn't. Has been for well over a decade.

He's massively in denial and can't admit it, so ends up going round in circles because he can't bring himself to say it. Watch the video when he went to the school in Birmingham regarding the protests there. Same thing then, skirts around the issue.

The guy who did it was homosexual lol

so, the charleston shooting wasn't a race crime?

So perhaps a better example of my original question is. Was the Boston bombing an attack on Endurance Sport?

Of course the Boston bombing was an attack on Endurance Sport! Just think back to years ago when endurance sport had to literally fight for civil rights! The many years of oppression and hatred towards endurance sport, and even though endurance sport is much more widely tolerated today, there are still those who hold the moronic regressionist idea that endurance sport is wrong and needs to be punished, or at least what constitutes as punishment in their warped reptilian minds. Of course the same also applies to films.

According to these two idiots, it was an attack against filmwatchers and cosplayers everywhere.

Since they didn't agree with him, they're bigoted. Leftist logic at its finest.

Ya, it was really ugly and selfish seeing Owen brooding that there Empathy wasn't entirely focused on him. And kept brininging up things entirely unrelated to the case.

He’s a typical soy boy

I mean, I haven’t seen him talk about other things yet, but in this case being part of the lgbtq+ community gives him a right to talk for the community in my opinion. If that makes sense?

Um yes bc he’s part of the community that is being talked about. DUH

Correct! I'm amazed people give it any attention.

im amazed your people made it passed stone slabs and chisels

Care to explain?

no that wasnt it at all

its not funny, he has a right to be upset. he just misplaced his anger as most people on the far left do. but remember 50 people were just killed for being born a bit different.

Pink shirt wearing mangina.

He's an over sensitive pus*y

Acts, looks, sounds, dresses and I will assume has 90% of the genitalia of a girl, so stick with the latter.

why are people 'proud' of sticking things up their arse?

@Rhys Hoffman No, it did work, made the point quite well I thought.

There's only so many buzzwords out there

@@wardkdouglas True dat

Yes, he repeated his point for 10 minutes straight, trying to get the other guests to admit they were wrong and trying to force them to agree with him. It didn't work, so he threw his toys out of the pram and stormed off. So mature!

I think it was past his bedtime anyway

Not entering it would have been better

***** Mole

He was literally in the wrong ? Did u even watch the he video

I know right! I feel like the whole 'humanity' argument is just a sick way of making it about themselves and pushing out more islamophobia. A hate crime is a hate crime.