So glad to see this note.

bby ur whole channel aged like milk

This 💯.. this is actually the first way I’ve learned the term woke (besides its literal meaning lol) and it’s truly disappointing the way the term is used now..

Fwiw, everglow-up is Black. 🙃

@@nublock5000 well just because someone is black doesn’t mean they automatically know what a term means. Not to mention she’s not even of the AA diaspora, she’s Zimbabwean if I’m not mistaken. So that doesn’t really mean anything.

@@bbi2.052 Sounds like tone policing but okay.

@@nublock5000 ummm…ok? That doesn’t even make sense.. but wtv

same

same

I left tiktok bc moa and stay kept telling each other to kys

I agree with you :)

same

I definitely think the key is removing yourself from a situation enough to be able to evaluate all sides of an issue. That’s easier said than done, and is difficult when applied to kpop, where often more than half of the issue is unavailable via companies’ non-disclosure policies. Hyuna is a bit of a unique situation to me, where I believe more information was available than what people were willing to search for and worth with. It either comes from ignorance, or just an immediate dismissal of her as an individual over what she has done. It’s such a tricky thing to navigate, because I can’t really blame people for not wanting to give her any sort of lenience over what happened

@@choujimi so contradiction was something you brought up in your video but here you are contradicting yourself . First of all this is a hate comment this big KZfaqr just called another Ktuber immature which is against everything you preached in your video . Next time look in the mirror before you come for everglow-up sir .

@@user-ul8oz2oz8g Taejiu is not calling everglow-up immature here, maybe read it again? It’s also not inherently hateful to see someone as immature in their views. I don’t perceive it as hateful, could you tell me why you do?

Yeah definitely! I feel bad about making it seem like Tumblr isn’t a thing anymore, I was more trying to express that the “older” function of Tumblr for young people in general was that it was a space where they could bounce social viewpoints off of each other without much of a consequence in the grand scheme of social media Nowadays, and as you said, Tumblr seems to be more of a community-focused space rather than an echochamber as it used to be. I think the absence of that echochamber function is what has caused the community of kpop at large to suffer, as social issues are brought up across every social media platform for most members of the kpop community to be able to see

I agree - there’s a LOT more to this issue than I think anyone on ktube could ever cover comprehensively. Development in behavioral psychology research regarding the “iPad kids” phenomenon is still very much under progress, and will hopefully tell us more about these issues in the future - In the end, I think it’s a matter of research rather than social problems, but as this problem regards society so much as we all now share the kpop community together, we can’t help but try and make it a social issue lol

@@choujimi yes definitely! it is a social topic in all its right as this does effect us in our every day lives, this should be talked about in all communities, especially the K-pop one. as we are greeted with new and younger fans every day it is only a matter of time before we see what the consequences of whatever the issues are effect this community, change will happen to our delight or dismay nevertheless lol

Something a lot of people in the general "is gen Z too sensitive" discussion seem to forget is that most of us in the generation either grew up in the pandemic or had just grown up when it started. In march 2020, I was 21 and had just started my first ever job and suddenly everything closed and meeting friends didn't feel safe. Being essentially "forced" into seeing the world through screens if you didn't want to somehow help spread covid does a lot more to the psyche than some of the holier than thou's like egu realize imo.

This is such a good point. I'm American and have been listening to kpop since 2010. Back then, you were made fun of for liking K-pop. Even though BTS was gaining traction since 2017, the fandom was still very niche, and most of us were nerds and definitely not the "cool kids". Comparing ARMY concert vlogs from 2017 to now there is definitely more fanfare in how we dress and carry ourselves. I started noticing this during the 2019 tour. Tiktok started gaining traction in the states in September 2018. This lines up with the US dates for the LY tour and explains the growing need to be dressed up for these concerts that wasn't really there in BTS' earlier tours (of course there are a lot of factors that go into this). Then the pandemic hit, and Dynamite exposed the general public to BTS and K-pop. Now it is seen as the it thing to like. Just like how bc of Taylor Swift, the Cheifs have a lot of bandwagon fans. Fans that are in it as if it were a status symbol. Now, K-pop has the status as cool. This is good for K-pop, but bad for fans that rather not see the toxic side of fandoms. Real fans like kpop for the music and artistry that goes into it, while fake fans cling on to what is popular just for popularity sakes. At the end of the day social media seems to thrive on toxicity and community outrage. Also, I think as international fans, we were kind of out of the loop on the toxicity of Korean kpop community. It was like being in our own bubble. There was definitely toxicity back then and even in the years before the pandemic (BTS ARMY really documented the toxicity that some other fandoms dished out to us and even BTS and that all happened prepandemic), but it did not blow up on social media. So it could also be the rise of social media that gives voice to toxicity in general instead of just an uptick in toxicity. Plus the pandemic really erased some people's ability to show respect to others. I think this extends worldwide though. I've seen many mean comment towards American kpop fans bc of how Americans are viewed. Everytime a tour is announced or an American fan wishes for a city close to them, hate rains down. I've also seen a lot of mean tweets from Americans or racist tweets from Brazilians or Koreans (the list goes own). Some parts of kpop social media is such a cesspool. A lot of people have a warped ego and Id that social media gives a platform to that wasn't really there ten years ago. I've even seen videos talking about this for western artists or even communitiessuch as book tok or the knitting community. It's really mind boggling.

​​​​@@blueside9147 uhhhh no?? Not rly. bts initially exploded since late 2016/2017 onwards and had the biggest fandom from then on. thats why they won the top social artist at the bbmas with like a 90% margin in votings continuing to do so in 2018 and beyond, winning vmas, pcas, tcas other awards which required voting in some capacity (ofc getting their korean, uk, japan etc etc awards too) and army has always been loud and proud of BTS. Thats how fans spread the word about them over the years, we had armys making flyers to give out prior to a cb release back then and make interesting pamphlets/posters that would get put up all over different cities to hype up the release. Like majority of army has never given a fkc about others and what they think is "cool" or "in" this is why to this day you will have a tweet with thousands of likes and retweets about kpop stans being embarrassed to say they listen to kpop or xyz group/artist and have the replies and quotes agree with them😭 meanwhile an army is quoting that same tweet being like "this could never be me with bts" or something of the sort and the army quote gets 20k+ likes because its simply the truth also while i do see a correlation with tiktok being in the rise 2018/2019 when they had their LY tour i wouldn't be so quick to pin people dressing up more because of it as you said there r a lot of factors and a couple of them could be: - the fans simply have been growing up with bts, the fans r older so they know themselves more as people/know how to dress for big social event like be it a concert, festival, seminars etc etc/having more disposable income because a lot of people started working or were working for some time having full time or part time jobs - BTS tours became more of an EVENT add in their tours growing larger and larger in scale to the stadium tours they do now, that all started in 2019 too. There r some fans that go to multiple stops but for majority its just that ONE (maybeee 2) shows they get the chance to go to and they wont be seeing the guys until they come back and do another one, with no guarantee they could go see BTS again because whewww getting your hands on their tickets is impossible. So the fans want to make the most of it dress crazy, experiment with their outfit makeup hair nails, do one of the guys looks from an mv or go with a silly costume like those inflatable dinosaur ones lol BTS were already massive before the pandemic and dynamite (ofc all that made them bigger not denying that) but they had sold out stadium shows wherever they went, 3 consecutive bb200 #1s, a top #10 hit with multiple other entries on hot100, IFTP (i think thats the acronym hahaa) best selling albums worldwide, breaking 30-40 year old records, UN speech, youngest recipients awarded the order of cultural merit for spreading korean language and culture worldwide and many more all prior to their second explosion that took place post 2020. All that to say they already brought massive massive audiences and new stans to kpop and its really crazy to think about because bts is like 10 times bigger now than they were back in 2017-2019 yet they unintentionally did so much free promo to their home country and the kpop industry just by existing. Mannn they're so crazy like they the goats fr fr 😵‍💫😌😌☝️ Your last paragraph so true!! Its not that there is an uptick of toxicity but just social media is more present in peoples lives so we just see it more and r more aware of it now, but it has always been there. Like this time we r living in right now is the first time in history people from all corners of the world get to interact, talk, video chat with others on the other side of the world in real time. See and read about things we probably would have never known had it not been for the internet and social platforms so there is information overload, sensory overload add in a lot of these algorithms favoring negative posts/tweets/tiktoks that spread quicker than a post with the right information for example too and its just fkcd all around. There's echo chambers, misinformation, too much too much just too much everywhere that some people end up spiraling from all of it. AND what you said about people never recalibrating correctly because of the pandemic to where people have that level of respect that was always present but now js missing not only in the US but other countries as well like people rly became a$$holes after going through a global crisis 😭😭💀💀 like understandable on one hand but on the other man we rly lost BAD my god Soo yeah by this point idk where i am going with this fjdjdks imma stop typing this was enough for today 😭😭😭😩😩

I feel like you're romanticizing the past. There absolutely were controversies and fan wars before 2020.

Oh ? Are talking about that one video of that trans woman talking about how she was biological female 💀

@@valtaep1ece796 hmm no, i don't know what you're referring to but the everglowup video (if I remember correctly) was a stage presence analysis video, and she opened it up with analogies of absurd things that people say and do, one of which is men 'thinking they could pretend to be women' or something of the sort, which I personally felt uncomfortable with as it seemed clear she was alluding to trans women

@@beccabowen4292basic biology isn’t phobic btw

@@valtaep1ece796 please educate yourself if you're not open to having a constructive discussion about this!

I definitely got that too, man 😕 even in the video this one is responding to, the language she used was quite…problematic and I cant help but see how it would leak over to people and their identities if she were confronted w the conversation. She brought up cultural appropriation as an example and it felt like a “read between the lines” kind of statement 💀

not an attack or anything but i think the main issue of your statement is that so many children are being given unlimited access to social media, which then leads to children/early teens online being immature mostly in line with their age about certain things, then this gets taken out of proportion with the rest of K-pop community as it gains more traction. I think the bad/stupid presence online of young people is mostly due to; a - society having the mentality of expecting 12 year olds to go to 21 overnight, b - young children being handed technology and social media at a dangerously young age they may never learn in the future as their perspective on the world is skewed from social media, they may do and be hit with the reality of their actions I think the issue of young people on social media is a very complex matter, we do not fully know the consequences yet, however whatever we do now is going to be irreversible in the future again no hard feelings or an attack i just have some thoughts of my own towards your statement! you do seem very thoughtful with your opinions and I do partially agree with you, I hope you have a good day :)

I genuinely do think that most, there will always be exceptions would grow out of it gen z at least, gen alpha is suspicious as they are starting out from a young age but if the adults in their life take action of wouldn't be that bad. In what I've noticed since I always just love to observe the the world and how people behave, most teenagers my age and above while immature are not stupid and I really do think most of us would grow out of it Me and a couple of my friends want to start a podcast called the hypocritical podcast because we as we are entering our teenage years know want to talk about serious issues in an environment where people would not just dismiss our words and opinions and genuinely listen and come up with more points for the argument. and since we spent our whole lunch period last.Friday yelling and ranting about our parents and the most immature way we have ever acted in a while, but we are still serious about our podcast. This is my biggest example of gen z can and most will grow up even if we stay sassy little monster forever we will mature over time But thanks for replying you made a really good point I hadn't thought about most will grow up but there will be the exceptions who wouldn't want to accept reality and thrive on tic tok.

Yeah cancel culture is an interesting thing to me! Part of me feels like it’s just “your actions have consequences” but tenfold because it’s on the Internet, but as you said, the inclusion of the Internet in this practice makes it a lot more difficult to deal with. The consequences are often blown out of proportion, as nobody has control over how much an individual is punished by the online community. It’s guaranteed to always go way too far 😭

I don‘t think that the reason why americans are so sensitive, because they they are a 1st world coutry. People from other 1st world coutry don‘t really act like that. I think the reason why americans are so sensitive is, because they have right now an identity crisis. For a long time they were the most powerfull and influencial country in this world and amercans were toke a lot of pride in this. But now they are realising that a many people from other coutrys hate americans, because of their past action and how pridefull they were. And on top of that, tihis nation is falling apart.

I definitely agree! I see a lot of ethical conversations brought up around the behaviors of a class of 5-year-olds, and it seems to me like that is way too early of an age to be at all definitive of what the future of our society will be like. I think we need to give it more time, especially with behavioral psychology research, and come to a conclusion later on to see if it really is as widespread as people are worried about

@@choujimi you're right! but at the same time, i can't help but wonder. even with extensive research, would we be able to conclude this discussion with something that both satisfies the demographic in question and prescribes a reason why __ number of factors exist, occur, and have shaped the future society that is universal? there's really so much to consider, and with time and change, there's really no concrete way of knowing... not to prolong this conversation, just some food for thought

That’s a really good point! The nature of online interactions makes it so young people feel like they can’t change their mind or idea on an issue, even if they wanted to, to avoid looking weak or misinformed. It’s unfortunate that people aren’t given the lenience or patience to develop their own viewpoints over time

Omg that's such a good point nayeonchantix! A lot of societal pressure cuz of various other acts of violence (such as gun violence as you mentioned and parents fighting as my example) can also affect even the littlest of people. I would also like to add the pressure from peers (such as the general notion of parents setting sky high expectations for their kids to get good grades to become doctors or lawyers to gain that good $$$, etc) can definitely take a toll on a child and their way of finding their identity. It's adds onto the many ways living as a teen can be so tough not just in current day but for all eras of life so far

That’s a good point - we really will never know the behavior of the managing teams behind the idols, so Kitsch could’ve very well been some kind of punishment in the end. The problem with never knowing the answers is that we’ll always be stuck with one piece of the issue, and we can’t ever come to a definitive conclusion without context we’ll never know about… That’s why I don’t know if discussing social issues via kpop is ever going to be truly effective

@@choujimi yeah agreed discussing kpop social issues via kpop can work but it’s just everyone might just view it from a different lens and perspective it i can be interesting what social commentary it can bring to the table also for kitsch as matpat said that’s just a theory a kpop theory 🫠💗

Thank you!! I really appreciate it

I agree that Americans need to take a step back, but I believe it’s a bit too much of a generalization to say that “they don’t care if something is up to American standards,” as a significant amount of companies have shifted their focus to promoting internationally. From universal English captioning, to partnerships with western media companies and producer groups, it seems like companies are particularly sensitive to the international market in a lot of ways, no?

I think it was just a cheap performance video lol

It's not a mv lol, it's cake dance practice

Yeah, I apologize and should’ve been more careful about explaining this… I did not realize people rode so hard for tumblr I meant to say that while tumblr and kpop tumblr communities still exist, they don’t function in the same way they used to that were useful to young people developing their world views. Like any other social media website today, it’s become more of an open-space echochamber that shares itself with other online communities - no disrespect meant to the denizens of tumblr

Hello again - I sincerely apologize if I’ve upset you in some way. That wasn’t my intention with this video, and I want to let you know that I have deleted overly hateful comments from here. There are some comments that are constructive towards everglow-up and how she approaches making an argument, but nothing that outright attacks her character or her as a person has been left up to what I can see. Also… why is it a bad thing that I’m replying to people calling me out? I said in the video I was willing to have my mind changed on this, yet the “call out”didn’t give any constructive feedback for me to work with. I don’t know what’s being asked of me here

I’ll be interested to hear what you have to say! Someone else in the comments brought this up, how the word “woke” has kind of been stripped of its original meaning and transformed into something with a much more negative connotation. It was something that I didn’t consider when making this video, and definitely makes me think more about how (and why) it’s used today in all its ambiguity

@@choujimi Yes, thats very true. That word has definitely been used as an “Uno reverse card” on people who are virtue signaling and viewing certain groups of people one way, when everyone in said group is not the same. That’s the way I’ve been using it, but I admit , I get a little frustrated hearing the word woke these days and even saying the word woke lol. The original intention of the word woke was to call out racial discrimination, prejudice, and injustices within American society, but now it’s used to call out virtue signalers who believe themselves to be more morally superior then others and who hold others to a standard they don’t hold themselves to in real life. While, some of them do actually hold themselves to that standard, I find a lot of their beliefs and views to be unfair towards others, and if you disagree with them, you’re in danger of being labeled as an enemy, ist, phob, problematic, sick, etc. All for the sake of silencing others who don’t agree with the echo chamber you talked about, Which is why I really love the comment you made about interacting with people who may not have the same view as you because every opportunity is a learning opportunity on both sides. There’s not a lot of people that have the heart to understand the plight of both sides of an argument like you do. I don’t know if you realize how rare a thing that is in today’s time. The more I dive into K-tube, the more I start to see that, so I appreciate your transparency. It’s really tricky to explain this whole woke thing lol but I’ll best foot forward. Sorry for the long reply lol

@@moonlight_antonioI agree, but just clarification, woke nowadays is usually used in a totally opposing. It’s now nothing but a political, conservative, buzzword when describing “stupid” left-ideologies. It’s like the 4th version of the definition of woke.