I agree. His comments about women were really sexist in the earlier seasons I thought.

Your right I agree with you, men like that will never get it until you have to be mean to explain it to them, don't know why they made him get married in the first place he never changed.

Hell no! Howard was the only one of them to have enough confidence to even approach women. Penny could've came at him a bit different. For fucks sake, Raj wasn't even talking to her... Bash that dude

​@@luedanger561she was simple and would never really be friends with them, though.

To be or not to be, if he hadn’t been doing it he would be unnoticeable, he did it so he was wrong. Now replace Howard’s body with much more desirable man, let’s say Jason Mamoa, now you gentlemen say what it is. My opinion is creepiness is subjective to the girls attraction towards the guy, its their veto and they exercise it on every aspect of relationship. Guys are just pawns in these games, it’s designed to take advantage of them attractive or not.

Yeah, it would have been great...Had Penny not been guilt-tripped into apologising! And then at the end of the episode, Howard thinks he's right, and his behaviour remains exactly the same.

@@sjn7688that’s why I stopped watch this show until Amy and Bernadette came in! There wasn’t enough women on the team it felt like. Why did penny have to apologize for being sexually harassed by her boyfriend’s friend?. (We’re they dating at this point?) anyhow it was stupid that she apologized he should’ve found his mistakes and apologized too at least 😔😔

@@sjn7688Penny did punch though so in a way it did work out as basically the message was Howard was a creep who finally got taken down a notch and finally stopped being such a creep

@@noahhumbard724 But he continued to be a creep! It only went down when he was married. Guys shouldn't stop being a creep because of 'the one'. If you need a woman to be a good guy you're not a good one.

@@sjn7688 Yes butt here’s the thing when he started going out with bernadette he started to change . Yes you could use the woman card butt when she almost canceled the wedding he said he gets if she doesn’t want to Mary him and that he hated that version of him too basically saying that he would accept her choice unlike the old Howard who would have badgered her and to let her know he is a better person . Maybe it didn’t happen overnight but that punch in my opinion was for the best he basically realized he can’t continue to be a piece of shit and expect any woman to love him . He basically realizes now that version of Howard isn’t ever going to be happy . People changing isn’t a bad thing . He isn’t like the old Howard . Also I don’t think he’s really a creep compare s1-3 Howard and later Howard especially s9-12 there completely different characters . The idea that he hasn’t changed is rubbish.

Well, he may be a selfish jerk and may not get social interaction that well, but even he knows when things can be hurtful and detrimental sometimes

Yeah, not to mention it goes without saying that SHELDON Is usually the one completely befuddled by a direct statement that involves social cues..... kind of humorous right up until his tail goes between his legs......

lets not forget its a GIRL giving one of his buddys the harsh truth .... nerds dont get involved in that 🤓

​@@morganlasch8750😊

@@morganlasch8750But women like Penny is a double standard hypocrite. When other dudes aka attractive men were hitting on her and saying creepy things to her, she didn’t mind because they were being funny and playful. But when Howard did it, it was annoying and creepy and she fucking blew up in his face being on some dumb shit. Fuck Penny!

And then they ruined it by having Penny apologize to Howard at the end of the episode for hurting his feelings, and he went right back to trying to get in her pants.

@@darkmask5933 Yeah but at least she punched the shit out of him

@@darkmask5933 yup....

​@@darkmask5933and ge got punched in the face for it

it would be well deserved if the female counterparts ever received the same treatment, which I doubt. Amy Bernadette and Penny are everything but flawless but compared to the guys their weaknesses are not constanly pointed out and made fun of. The whole thing seems can be summirized like this: they are lucky to have them, 'cause they are mostly creepy. The aggravation is also that they are intellectuals. So, Penny has put up well with tall guys full of muscules who were insensitive but cannot accept the same treatment from a guy like Howard who is not tall and handsome.

And after watching young Sheldon that speechless look makes more sense

He needed to hear it. But his friends love him so it did hurt them.

@@vccomicx6261 elaborate pls

I admit it has been a minute, but isn't it Penny that sets up the date with Howard and Bernadette?

@@superdave8248yes

He needed to hear it. But she was brutally honest to him and they did become good friends.

Also Penny was the one to introduce him to Bernadette

Penny character never was good either, she was a premiscuoes woman, who toke advantege of the nerds kidness wayyyyyy too much, so nobody is a angel just cuz she is a woman

@@octaviosalvatierra1389 Aye but there is a major difference between eating their food and using their internet and being super creepy to the point of basically sexually harassing her every time he saw her

Since the gfs sunk the show, it might have been better if Howie stayed creepy...

Well, she knew he wasn't a bad person... he wasn't the best with words... but she knew he wouldn't really do anything... It's also why his change is so supported. He acted like an arse, but he wasn't an actual one...

I believe Howard manipulated Penny into introducing Bernadette to him, and then manipulated her again into getting them back together. He played the Vic card of “my daddy abandoned me as a kid” like he continues to do with Bernadette later on in the series.

*wake-up not walk-up

@@The_Notorious_N.O.E. thanx

Except Howard never got a wake up call and always remained a trash person on the show. It's an absolute joke and the he and Leonard got happy endings.

Like Penny is all innocent. She is a user.

If he was more attracted to her, she wouldn't have mind it, you know, like more than most women. But she's not, so in her mind she's creepy. I know because when I mostly flirt, I'm shut down like I have attraction value.

To paraphrase Jessica Rabbit, Howard isn’t bad, he’s just written that way. Can’t say the same for all the real life Howards though.

@@aaronstevenson4136 I can't speak for your experiences, but in this case, I don't think it's so much that he flirted in the first place as that he couldn't seem to take no for an answer, after she made her disinterest clear. _That_ was what made it creepy. Plus he'd already done some decidedly shady things at this point, (like using that remote control car to look up her skirt) Also, he knew Leonard liked her. Still pursuing her, in front of him was kinda iffy, given that Leonard was his friend. And the _way_ he went about it....he may have thought it flattering but he was basically telling her, repeatedly, albeit indirectly, that he only valued her for her body. Noone likes being used, male or female. 🤷 An approach like that is incredibly off-putting for obvious reasons. And of course, like you said, she clearly wasn't attracted to him, so his unwanted advances were even more unwelcome. Finding someone unattractive is hardly a crime. How do you think Howard would have reacted if a woman _he_ found unattractive, kept behaving the way he did? Not only is it disrespectful in the extreme, it's largely pointless. One can't force attraction, after all. I'm kinda glad this happened, he desperately needed a wake-up call. And his behaviour had improved slightly, by the time he met Bernadette, which is why she was willing to give him the time of day. Penny did him a favour.

@@allanrichardson1468 I agree. But his behaviour was still unacceptable and he needed the reality check. I'm glad she gave it to him, since his friends were either unwilling or unable to do so, for a variety of reasons. (Leonard was afraid of confrontation, Sheldon had little understanding of social norms, Raj had issues of his own, etc). Can you imagine if this version of Howard met Bernadette? He really would have died alone, lol.

Even Penny acknowledged that

A comeback very well said lol

Of course you are gonna like it😂

Well, Penny couldn't argue against it because Sheldon was technically right.

The only reason Penny claims "harassment" is because she isn't attracted to Howard. Several Chads have said worse to her during the course of the show and she thought it was "cute" and "charming"

@eskimopie8979, Indeed, many women admit to being flattered if the over-steamy flirter is attractive. We losers are discriminated against 🙂 I'm not condoning that behavior, but there is a double standard regardless.

you accept being "harrased" by men you are attracted to.. everyone else is consider creepy by woman. The irony.

Cry more, sweetheart

@@flyingpaladin617 lol virgin.

Do you remember in what episode he said that?

@@anamitson6785 : The Big Bang Theory: Season 5 : The Stag Convergence *I literally searched "he apologizes about all the disgusting stuff he did and he expressed that it was not him anymore because of bernadette."* 😁

@@snoglydox Thanks. (ﾟ⁠οﾟ⁠人⁠)⁠)

@@snoglydoxawesome search

He didn't have any character development. He is still the creepy jerk in later seasons. The writers made a terrible decision in letting him have a happy ending.

Permission granted.

I recognize myself in that nerdy little laugh

Well she was lrwtty insensetive. The first part was fine, the second part felt unnecesarily harsh.

It was harsh, but desperately needed. Not only for a boundary between Harold and Penny, but also for the character development for Howard.

@@borz1976in2012 she was a leech for almost all the show and toke advantage of everyone so yeah she is not saint at all, hate the people who judge but are garbage themself, she was pressured cuz even her knew she over step it though howard and sheldon were made like this to make it funny and it damn well worked, after they stop, the show kinda go down hill

​@@octaviosalvatierra1389so are you saying shes supposed to tolerate inappropriate behavior forever? She was sick of hearing him being gross amd treating her like a piece of meat. He changed and it helped him.

She helped him and eventually he became a better man, don’t turn this into something other than it is bruh

Cnc represent

To be fair, what changed him for the better was his relationship with Bernadette.

Okay, but then she states that he’s gonna stay single, that’s not very nice

@@areallybigannoyingorangefa6562 yeah but sometime as the saying goes "you've got to be cruel to be kind" would her message have truly gotten through if she hadn't said that?

@@areallybigannoyingorangefa6562 Continuing to pursue someone who has made her aversion clear is very not nice. He's done that episode after episode.

exactly , he had intercourse in her bed without her permission , he gave her a teddy bear with a webcam in it , etc...

And yet

So true.

Da fuck when did that happen

@mujtabaomar880 He gave her a teddy bear with a webcam

Nah, totally deserved too. It sickens me that in the end Penny "had to" apologize in the end.

​@@HasufelyArodthat was for the dying alone thing that broke him.

@@victor2641 It was deserve and I will always use this episode as an argument as to why Bernadette deserved better.

@@HasufelyArod then this will be a counter kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gMiEdqx8scCydKM.htmlsi=jX6msWGUXIPsSPX- Not to mention she ain't that miss perfect.

@@HasufelyArodyou're pathetic if you think saying someone will 'die alone' doesn't cross a line. Do better in life.

You'e more right than you know. Though it's not just people of "lower social status" anymore. Millions of American men who are nothing at all like Howard have given up entirely on the dream of marriage and a family these past few years. Not trying to be negative, but you can only fix things if you admit they're broken. Best wishes. JT

Her comment only worked because it got the required reaction. If Howard would've just shrugged his shoulders and went on about his day Penny would've just stood there looking stupid.

You're

@@eskimopie8979 I think you're confusing cause and consequence... it only got the shown reaction because it worked, not the other way round.

That would be an accurate feeling because videogamers are indeed incels.

I mean they were friends for a long time i would get it if he chose Howard. Bros before penny

@@yohansanchitha1018 I mean not really, he also didn't stand up for howard and even was telling him to back down because he saw it building on penny. He really couldn't be bothered to have one side over the other either way

She apologized because no matter how much Howard deserved it - and he did deserve it - she really hurt his feelings. Girls apologize for doing that. Guys don't. You can just go suck on your feelings as far as guys are concerned. .

You’re so right! Howard should have been held accountable by his friends. Not had his feelings coddled for sexually harassing Penny every chance he got

@@BobSmith-dk8nw you’re right. It’s a double standard. Women are expected to be held to a higher standard than men when it comes to emotional accountability.

Yeah... But he needs that realization to evolve a some decency and a little less creepy.

XDDDDDD

@@Har1ByWorldwhat’s funny ?

your mom@@gabrielleroux2333

​@@gabrielleroux2333Where in their comment did they laugh?

@@eldenlion5850 XD is an way of expressing laughter/smiling on the internet.

Maybe he just doesn't know better. He's clearly raised in a dysfunctional family. Guys' libidos' lie to them, protect their ego.

I was glad to not hear an 'Awww...' from the audience about that. NO. SYMPATHY. DESERVED.

He's redeemed in the end because most of the weirdos who watch the show are like him, guys with no notion of how to interact with women and think sexist comments are flattery

@@ViniciusVZRwow, way to come after random people 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️ are you always that much of a judgmental POS??😡😡🖕

I know right! Every time I watch this episode it’s frustrating that Penny has to apologize, he deserved that

The death stare... and goes down quiet raj😂

Yeah, he should have known that Penny only smooches and bangs dudes who talk like fratboys if they're tall, have a six pack and a lot of money.

First of thats how some guys flirt just because you dont like it dosnt mean its wrong

Yeh sound creepy and all.. but that ain’t sexual harassment… people are changing the meaning of that

Well, she knew he wasn't a bad person... he wasn't the best with words... but she knew he wouldn't really do anything... It's also why his change is so supported. He acted like an arse, but he wasn't an actual one... In the end, he's just someone bad at flirting...

Because not every guy knows how to flirt or how to talk to women. Penny was right about all of it except for the last part, which was too far. You can teach a person to be better without destroying them emotionally and hurting their feelings.

She should be more worried about “correcting” herself at that point.

It would totally have not ‘-‘

@@pedroalexandre157no, it would have…. For sure.

Truth can hurt, but if he never realised it before.

*she not he

@@The_Notorious_N.O.E. oh right sorry for the typo

better than going jail she did him a favour

There’s a difference between cruel and harsh, and what Penny said wasn’t cruel.

It wasn’t cruel. Harassing her was cruel .

​@@sweetspicy7880And I said this on another post, but Leonard did warn him.

It certainly was cruel. She deliberately made him feel awful, like he was of no worth to anyone, and never would be. If you can't see how that's cruel, I don't know what to say. People have killed themselves over similar insults. Whether he deserved it is a different matter entirely. Also, Howard wasn't being cruel, he actually (stupidly) thought she was enjoying it. Howard isn't a bad person, but like the rest of his friends, he hasn't learned yet how to properly act with women. Hopefully Penny schooled him that day that he was going to get stomped on more if he continued in a similar fashion. @@sweetspicy7880

@@tivednagol9127i think saying that hes gonna die alone was a bit cruel, maybe she coulda said it more tactfully

TWICE!

No one deserves to die alone, c'mon.

@@whitneywilliams317 your right

@@piedadleon817 I get how she felt, but no one deserves to die alone. She went to far on that part

⁠@@whitneywilliams317He won’t die alone. This was a much needed wake up call, and he improved himself. Now he has a wife and children.

Honestly no he didn’t deserve that, he would’ve deserve a lot worse

even sheldon has said many times that howard is a creep - so he agrees with penny

Exactly why she wasn’t “real enough” , no real human being would be able to accomplish such a feat

Lmao Penny isn’t a saint. Don’t act like the other four (yes even Howard and Sheldon) hasn’t helped her out plenty of times. So many first timer 2023 viewers with the “woman can’t do no wrong” mindset

Keep in mind, Leonard did warn him.

He wouldn’t have died alone, he would’ve died right next to his murderer …..

He did improve slightly, Bernadette replaced his mother.

Penny has been an asshole in this show. She has been consistently selfish and has used the guys. Howard was creepy no doubt and he needed to hear this, but penny is no saint.

I don’t know why everyone keeps saying this. The episode doesn’t end with her apologizing and accepting Howard as he is. It ends with him mistaking her apology for a sexual advance and trying to kiss her, her punching him in the nose for it, him claiming to have broken his nose by slipping in a bathtub and her saying he should treat bathtubs with more respect then. That’s hardly the episode acting as if Howard were in the right.

Very true! I never liked Bernadette but I did like how Howard’s character grew more mature.

He married exactly the right woman. They clicked early, she could be sweet and sexy, and then she treated him like his mother.

I hated Bernadette.

Not necessarily. Howard needed to hear this. Howard had to be broken from what he perceived himself to be, so that he could be something of a Better Man when Bernadette came into his life. If Penny had not broken him in this fashion, Bernadette might never have come into Howard's life. Bernadette would never have accepted a man in her life who acted as dopey as Howard did prior to Penny's breaking him.

The way the audience goes "awww" makes it sound like she's wrong

Cause she kinda was

​@@xViolentStormzxbut she wasn't wrong at all

@@SpectacularDisaster 💀 alright buddy

If soul he had ….

Why it it when women call each other bit(#€s it's ok and when men does it all he'll break loose? Not condoning his behavior but I've seen muscular tall handsome guys do worst to her and she thought it was flirtatious. The double standard

Cause usually you have the one geeky nerd who does this, but they really aren't a "threat." So it seems not worth it. But naw, I was surprised how long they made Penny deal with it.

@@aldakendall4921There’s a reason Penny explicitly likes Sheldon better than she likes Howard.

@@matityaloran9157 so many reasons to like Sheldon more. This is what I grew up with. Except geology. This is my friend group.

And even more so, the fact that he *still* didn't get it until more than halfway through. That he thought all the other stuff where she was essentially telling him to knock it off, he thought she was flirting back with him. And only until she gets harsh with him, does he FINALLY get the point. Definitely not good that it had to get all the way to that, for him to truly listen to what she was saying. Some just need to learn the hard way to stop deluding themselves with that whole "no means yes" bs mentality.

Well, she did punch him, so there's that.

@@Michael-dy2lbyeah, so he might’ve ended up apologising to her off screen after that. Plus it also happened because Howard didn’t listen to Leonard when he told him to stop.

Giggity! 😂

Quagmire was always getting women to sleep with him. Howard was Howard.

Unlike Howard, Quagmire changed to worse in the latest seasons, he lost much of his likeability since he began hating Brian.

No, the last sentence was also correct.

incels thinks it is okay to sexually harass women - so no surprise by their reaction- i am a guy and i would never sexually harass a woman -

I love that Sheldon pointed it out, lol

@@MathEnthusiastssSheldon and Penny have the kind of relationship where he can point that out to Penny. Howard and Penny don’t.

The “pathetic life” comment was cruel but the creepy comment wasn’t. He needed to see his behavior for what it truly was and that if he continued he really would end up alone.

True. Contrast with Sheldon who remained the self-centered a-hole he always was.