Finally made part two! What we learned two years later! See it here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m8ySZ8Z3q66RfZ8.html

I built a 30x40 pole barn a little over 15 years ago and put a woodshop in half of it. I used a different method that was very effective, a whole lot easier, and probably cheaper. My exterior was sheathed with OSB and had vinyl siding and at that time OSB was $5 a sheet so I caulked all of the joints in the OSB exterior then installed 2x4 girt boards on the inside and sheathed the inside with OSB also and caulked all of those joints as well. Then I bought a heck of a lot of cellulose insulation, used a piece of 2” pvc conduit with a 90 on the end and connected that to the blowing machine hose, then spent the day blowing the walls full of cellulose and topped it all off with 18” in the attic. I didn’t have heat in there the first winter but it never got much below 40 degrees in there all winter in central Michigan. The next winter I had heat and I kept it at 50 degrees and bumped it up to 68 when I went out there to work and it took no time at all to warm up. It also stayed cool all summer without AC.

I do like the effort and this approach and the many good insights! Steve Vice (Architect) makes a good point on the vapor movement especially up north. For barns/shops there is no one perfect way to insulate - different material for siding, different interior finishes and end uses make for some time with the yellow pad and a pencil a must. I spray foam, have for 22 years - done a lot of barns. Quick break down for todays price and a simple example - a 32 x 40 (figure the one 32' end is mostly door) 12' wall height. I would spray that with closed cell at 2.5 inches, usually a little heavier and the rib is filled in - say R18. My foam cost out of the barrel would be right at $2300 say average drive time and standard install, total with labor around $3500. Board stock would run around $1340 (depending on how you manage waste) can foam $96, $20 tape and $1700 for mineral wool. Total $3165. That doesn't leave much for labor - But - If you have lots of tools and shelves in the area you don't wish to move, a smaller area or just enjoy the process you will be ok - Mineral wool and R7.5 board stock have you thinking R20 (I'd bank on the spray foam's R18 as better performance anytime) R is only one rating of insulation - take a little time to look at your climate zone and talk to others with similar types and uses of the same size shed - Peace

Really enjoyed the video, great info, appreciate your honest opinion. You had me hooked with your intro, regarding you wife, lol! I've watched a few of these videos. It's a little hard for me to understand why spray foam is more expensive for foam boards. I understand there are different levels and R values, gap filling abilities. But there are a lot of emotion rated prices regarding homes in materials, furniture, designs, and people are willing to pay for perceptions. Besides my rant, thoroughly enjoyed your video. Thank you!

I'm an architect and here is my opinion on insulating pole barn construction. Closed cell spray foam is more expensive, but it is a vapor barrier, moisture barrier and high R value insulation all in one. It also makes direct contact with the metal siding leaving no metal exposed. The ribs of the siding in your case are still exposed to air infiltration from inside the building. You have taken good steps to mitigate air infiltration, but it is almost impossible to keep it all out. This air will be warm and moist and as it contacts any exposed cold metal of the ribs it will condense on that cold surface like a glass of iced tea in the summer and run down the inside face of the siding. In very cold weather it will freeze and become frost inside your wall assembly. You have damed up those ribs with spray foam at the joints of your insulation boards and the condensation will hit those foam dams and find places to leak into the space. The advantage of closed cell spray foam insulation is that it completly covers the inside face of the metal siding, (if it is done correctly), and is an impervious barrier to moisture and air vapor, preventing the possibility of condensation. Any exposed metal in the wall assembly as you have constructed it, will have condensation form on it. That's why any other insulating system with pole barns is inferior to closed cell spray foam. It is the main reason I try to talk people out of building "barndominiums". That type of construction was never ment to be heated and cooled like a house...they are barns. I have a long list of other reasons why they are a bad idea, but that is another discussion.

I’m really glad to see your video! I am thinking of doing something very similar. Except for I’m going to put my inch and a half insulation in before I put my metal siding on. I think it would be far easier to do this way. As far as those people that are saying it doesn’t work as well I don’t believe so. Yes spray foam is great stuff and it will seal up all of the cracks and stop the air but if you take your time and do it correctly I believe you could do foam board insulation and get the same results.

In fairness, my brother has 2 businesses that do Spray Foam. When you say it's 20% more expensive, you are using energy prices as of today. The true value of spray foam that most people miss is that over time, as energy prices rise, a structure that has spray foam will see a flatter increase in energy prices. This typically means that in 10 years the difference in the cost of spray foam will have already paid for itself, and it will continue to pay you back. Also, if and when you go to sell the building, if you had installed spray foam, the value of the building would have increased also. Basically, spray foam is an investment, and it will pay you back. When my brother started, it looked like energy prices were going to double in 10 years, but more businesses switched to Natural Gas, and energy prices have increased marginally. With the current administration, the geopolitics that is ongoing, the risk is again that energy prices are potentially going to explode. I know that building a new building of any type has to have trade-offs. But sometimes, you have to look down the road and think about 5 years, 10 years, etc., and will a purchase decision greatly affect either negatively or positively the outcome. Thanks for your video, loved your ideas, You did a great job explaining what you did and the rationale. Thanks for sharing!

I watched this about a year ago & would love to know how it done during the cold winter months. I use to be an insulator & I think what you did was as good as anyone could do, other than close cell spray foam. But as you said it's crazy expensive. I would have done the exact same thing as you.

Good information on doing a good job. By demolishing buildings I have learned lot about building construction on what is stronger and lasts longer. We have torn down well over 100 houses and buildings. Wood post pole barns and homes get torn apart in storms. They offer very little challenge or resistance to being torn down. If the building is spay foamed it is like the whole thing is glued together and takes more work to demolish it. If the spray foam building is demolished the foam sticks to everything, all the material will have to go in dumpsters. If you demolish a pole barn that is not spray foamed the metal can be sold for scrap for over $200 a ton. I think I would pay the 20% higher cost and sleep better at night.

Great job, that will do at least as good as foam. and i think you can get rid of those braces, once you fill those voids and glue them the way you are doing it will take care of the wind bracing.

Very helpful and informative. I'm currently insulating my 32x48 post frame/pole barn/shed with 6" thick 48" wide rolls of fibreglass that have a vapour barrier backing. I'm using similar rolls (8" thick) in the ceiling.

We did the exact same thing on our flat roof ceiling on an addition we built two years ago - may be you saw our videos? We are currently working on our 36' x 48' post frame, but are doing a different type of insulation in that building. Spray foam is actually several times the price of alternatives here. In our post frame, we have fiberglass insulation between the posts that is held up by Insul-Hold strips, and 1 1/2" rigid XPS foam on both sides of the posts and in other areas to stop thermal bridging. We are putting in 3/4" plywood walls as it will be a woodshop. We have videos on all of that as well.

Considering all your labor I am not sure it is 20% cheaper... The insulators who did my garage were gone in 2 Days, I figured it was about 2x the cost of materials if I did it on the cheap all myself. The hardest thing I found was shopping for all the supplies and materials, properly insulating a large building requires many steps, fire block, air sealing/calking/foam, vapor barriers, tools, ladders/scaffolding and finally all the insulation... they show up in a couple of box trucks with everything and do it every day, Plus who wants to touch fiberglass or rock wool...

Looks pretty good but what about condensation I see you don’t have any under your metal

If you're installing stud framing, why not just use regular R-13 fiberglass? Fiberglass vatting stapled to the studs will provide a nice air gap to the outer siding to prevent moisture buildup.

The 1&1/2 inch space between the foam board & rockwool should act as a dead air space & give you even more insulation R value.

I find it hard to believe that using the foam board, buying the cans of foam plus tape. And then insulation it with R39 you are cheaper of than having a company come in and spray foam the darn thing and not have to do any labor. I’m in Fl am I pay under $1 a square foot to have a company come in and spray foam my buildings . And boy does it do a good job. Seals it airtight, great sound proofing, and really stiffens the whole building up. Really gives it a structural sound feel.

Have you ever pulled Rockwool and looked behind it in winter ? I would bet u have moister build up somewhere u did and exelent job with ur foam Around the foam board but this will condensate inside the assembly 2” -3” closed cell will outperform this all day long and it will pay for itself fast. I build a 36x50x16 and sprayed ceiling so 25’ in peak and 4” closed cell I heat it with a Osburn 3300 wood stove only at -30c in Canada I keep it at 10c plus Plus with the prairies winds peace of mind with added 300% racking strength.

Cool job but you should have tyvac between the sheet metal and the horazonal 2x6 so you dont get vapor look if any mostior gets behind the siding

I did something similar on my garage ceiling that I made with 14” BCIs. I used R30 between the BCIs then put 2x3”s under the BCIs with the same foam board. I didn’t drywall it for a year and all the red tape I used came off the wood. Because I used the Doors and Windows foam spray foam cans I didn’t do any else as the foam is closed cell.

If I was going to go that route I would have used zip-r sheathing for the outside. Then you get a thermal break. I think your time is worth more than manually doing this. IMHO. Thanks

I’m building a school bus with a metal ceiling and metal ribs should I put a vapor barrier then foam board? Or foam board by itself thanks

What I'm worried about. With the foam board bring less than two inches. You will probably experience moisture buildup between the foam board and the rock-wool.

Clever alternative! Nice work

Have fun using that rock wool.

I can't imagine there would be any issue running wiring around the 2X4 framing inside the gap to the insulation board. Even if it's tight and pinches the wiring a little...it's against foam board that gives. Why degrade your 2x4 wood frame with wiring holes everywhere...that would be crazy. Let us know what you find...thanks.

I use Rockwood too for pole shed

Thanks COOP ...

I had the exact same idea without even doing research. DIYer FTW

Call me crazy, but why do people build a pole barn and then do a complete re-frame in 2x4s for the interior walls, especially when you decide to cut corners on insulation? It would be better all around if you would have built the building with 2x6 exterior walls, used bat insulation and finished the interior space using the existing studs. It would have been more efficiently built, better quality, tighter, and cheaper. Also, In this particular situation, you said this was not a better option, is 20% cheaper and it’s DIY. So, your labor is worth 20% savings and an inferior product? That doesn’t make dollars and sense to me. I am all for folks offering other options that are equal, better, or DIY savings, but this doesn’t offer any of those.

Why didn't you use house wrap between the pole framing and metal?

So you save 20% but need to do all that work? So after factoring in your time what have you saved?

This is the system I used, and it has the advantage that you don't have to use spray foam... Duh! But you know, there are still idiots in the business who mis mix the foam, and completely destroy your building. Shows up now and then in the paper. I have been using epoxy for 35 years and never made a mistake, until a few days ago. I was able to salvage it because the process is slow, and I caught it. But at the speed they run spray foam, it would have destroyed a house if it was that product and not boat epoxy. I also wonder if the spray foam itself is better than the foam board. People actually build structures including aircraft with foam board. Never heard of anyone building a plane out of installer grade spray foam.

Is the cost savings taking your additional labor into account?

On the right track but application off. The foam should have been installed on top of the purlins between the posts leaving gaps at the posts and then foaming like you have done. You want the foam off the metal for 2 reasons. One it leaves an air gap which has a couple of benefits. Second, conduction is the best form of energy transfer. So with the foam not touching the metal it’s not heating (aka transferring energy) near as much. Another benefit is the installation speed.

How did your ceiling turn out? Can you give a little bit more info on it?

YHEP.... I know who writes the checks around here..!! HA..!! GREAT WORK..!! (hows it workin out...? )

Thanks for sharing!

I think taping the joints might be overkill. Use expanding foam Instead of the minimally expanding foam. Might go further and seal better. The rock wool is a good sound barrier, but also a good fire barrier.

Was quoted 10k to spray my 30x40 today I thought he was joking!

To anyone thinking about using this one thing to consider is that pink foam board is like napalm if it catches on fire. I know a lot of insulation is flammable even most spray foams but this pink foam board is especially bad. I believe it can ignite at 300 degrees Fahrenheit if I remember right

how come a closed-cell insulation board is so much cheaper than that thing spray foam rigs use?

Spray Jones says that 2" of closed cell foam will stop 86% of heat transmission and 1" more only brings it up to 93% which wasn't worth it. He found even in Canada it was enough to stop any condensation. I don't see why you spent on all the rock wool would make much sense in labor or money your way to do it your way. But I bet you had a warm shop

It's going on 4 months so I'm curious if you have completed the job, and do you notice any immediate difference inside? I have a 40 by 60 I'm thinking of doing the same but partitioning parts of it for storage, workshop, etc. Thanks.

beginning to think the savings is not significant enough to DIY. At the end of the day, what is your time worth and will it be one and done in a day and you can start using the shop vs.. weekend after weekend after weekend to get it done only to save 20-35% .. in the long run, thats a hard sell for a working man to DIY vs paying a little more to get it foamed 1 and done.

If your cutting the insulation board why create more open surface area to fill in?

The 2×6s are going to sweat that gap will get wet

Question.... isn't there an advantage in leaving the corrugated metal unblocked so that any moisture will drain down and out. The solid foam board does that. But the "great stuff" could be blocking it ? Also... homes these days need to be "air tested" using blower door .. by a certified tech, for county inspection.... how does this system hold up with that ? Hopefully pretty well. Looks like a good job overall. Thanks for the video !!!

Do you have an update video - since August? thx

I'm on the waiting list to have a 30x50 shop built. I am strongly considering just paying the contractor to go ahead and put up foam board insulation between the framing and metal siding. This way it would be way easier to than cutting it all in separate pieces after the building is up like you are doing. Is there any disadvantage to doing it this way that you can see?

I just sheathed mine with 5 inch sip. Done.

Nice work

It would have been more effective to install your board on the outside of the framing and then install your metal.

What did you do for a vapor barrier? Wood is not a vapor barrier, it lets moisture pass thru.

"AKA-um playing KZfaq videos" LOL my kinda people

Where is this at...With all that insulation you're adding to the walls, and I assume ceiling later... what about your floor? Is that concrete on frozen ground, and is there any insulation under it?

Thermal bridging, the wood will still get cold.

Rockwood cancels noise due to it's density.. heavy stuff.

😊👍

How's it holding up? I'm planning on doing this exact same thing in between the girts

Have you been happy with the results of this project so far? Looking to do something very similar.

Doesn’t this eliminate airflow on the exterior steel panels?

Is there a gap between the pink board and the outside wall?

lots of cheaper ways. if everything cost the same.... spray foam is absolutely the best way. but it is a bit more expensive, so if saving money is your priority, choose a cheaper way BUT if your time is valuable then spray foam is the best way..... period.

Thanks

You did it right. Spray foam to manufacture insulation on a job site is a disaster.

No need to fit it between the boards just screw them straight too. Less cutting less conduction more airflow on the outside And way less work

Rockwool will fun if it ever gets wet. What a mess

why cut it short to just fill the crack with foam. Just cut it to size.

How much is it going to cost you doing it the way your doing it now? with the foam board and rock wool?

I think the tape was overkill.

I’m in the process of doing something similar. I sprayed all the joints in the metal exterior, 2x4 girts, and posts. Instead of the foam board I just friction fit r-23 rock wool batts and every 4’ I toenailed a 2x4 into the posts with the wide side facing. I used 3/4” plywood for the interior that was caulked and painted. I like your version of a flash and batt and I think you covered the bases of a decent wall assembly from what I’ve read. My hopes for my pole building is basically 20 degree difference from the outside with some moisture control. Pole buildings just suck for making tight, mine has no foundation to attach the wall assembly and my floating slab sits on poly and that’s it. Exterior could’ve benefited from some paper but I didn’t do that during construction. Just trying to make it a little more tolerable, right?

Your only problem is you have no insulation in the grooves of the metal where a product like sprayfoam would fill those grooves.So now each groove in the metal is a void space which can lead to condensation during hot and cold transitions.That foam board is highly combustible due to it not being as dense as a good sprayer could spray foam,meaning the foam board has air pockets which adds to the flames.This foam board will actually make a building burn so fast it will be gone before the fire department arrives

When you don't insulate between the wood and metal you don't have a thermal break.

Blow in fiberglass is totally worthless as insulation. Your system there seems pretty impressive.

TAPE NOT NECESSARY FYi next time, reduce gap to 3/8 , then fill , retired inspector civil engineer, epanded is cheaper, than extruded, styrotech brooklyn park mn, can custom make 5.5 inch panels , 300.oo to heat 30 by 40 pole barn shop infloor heating with waterr heater boiler ooops , closed loop low tox eco freindly anti freeeze in lines

You got this idea from Matt reisinger

The tape over the spray foam is redundant.

without house wrap your metal will condensate....

20% less and you have to spend days screwing around with it. I don’t know what you make a hour but that makes absolutely no sense. Going to the store and buying the material, installing the foam. Installing the caulking, then the taping. Clean up, all that for a far inferior product. Well done my friend. Makes you wonder?

Spend the extra money have it spray foamed!

There's no way this achieves 80 to 90 percent as spray foam.

Where is your vapor barrier? Smh

Yes you saved money but your R-value is no where near what spray foam would have been.

3 major mistakes. First, the cost of foam board is half or less than spray foam. Labor for foam board is 3 times the labor for spray foam. For a DIYer, foam board is better because labor is free. Second, don't cut more than 1/2" undersize. You are wasting the very expensive filler foam in a can. Third, instead of buying using consumer sized spray cans, buy the 100 CF spray kit online or at your local big box store. Then spray all your joints at one time after all the panels are cut and placed.

Not really sure how thats cheaper than spray foam? If you spray foamed at 2" you be over the 2x6's and gains arent really that much more after that 2"... Uuuuummmmm well the foam is a vapour barrier its on the wrong side of the rockwool! So you still have the poly price to add in if done properly.

No house wrap lol

+

Why do people call anything as Pole Barn , you got a Frame Barny no Poles , some build a shed and call it a Pole Barn it amaze me why the think it's a Pile Barn sorry to Burst your Bubble 🙄

My wife and I, not me and my wife. 🤦‍♂️

I thought u said pollution.not solution

Is a pole barn for strippers? Guess that pole won't fit in the house!

All that for a saving of 20% 🤦🏻‍♂️. Or have someone do it and get it done. If you invest all that effort into your actual profession you more them make up that “saving” and the job is done. ✌️

Dumb people build a polebarn then stick frame it out to finish it. 1st insulate during the build not after. 2nd build a stick frame to start with so its not double the cost later.

My wife and I...

The music was horrible don't put music this isn't 1986