Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. The most misunderstood, misquoted, and maligned factor in the Study. Well done, Sir.
@ravenflight88 Жыл бұрын
Dr. Ashby I have a suggestion that may help further this fabulous education your foundation is putting out. First we always apply feet per second FPS to arrow and bullet speeds. Well in this chuckle head world we live in I have found that when I explain those speeds in miles per hour MPH and show them the simple math to do the conversion, thier heads explode. Then show the correlations between weight and speed in this manner by using examples like car crash tests they all of the sudden understand FOC and the heavy points. When they realize that an arrow clocked at 175 FPS is going 119 MPH at launch maybe this is a help to Troy and Darrell when describing the losses of fast light arrows down range compared to slower heavy ones. I'm always reminded of the tortoise and the hare story. It just seems that through my experiences the knuckleheads have a more firm grasp on MPH when I'm making a comparison in this manner. Once again great work sorry for the extensive post. Hope this helps.
@jonesboyshunting8673 Жыл бұрын
I have this similar type of conversation with my students in my heavy equipment brakes class (i.e. what is going to stop quicker a loaded semi or a car.) I get the MPHs you are telling about. Another way too maybe describe it would be as speed goes up torque goes down and as torque goes up speed goes down. Food for thought. But great job Dr. Ashby and great job @ravenflight88.
@timl8302 Жыл бұрын
@edashby4399 @@ravenflight88 Interesting🤔... My example is a sedan (or Corvette) & a Coal ( or 1/2 ton) Truck heading towards each other. The sedan or sports car light & much faster & the truck heavy & may need a little more time to get to 50 or 55mph OR Maybe just the amount of braking needed by eachl?
@bryanheimann5370 Жыл бұрын
I posted a long comment on here and did a poor job trying to quote you and I missed your comment entirely! Thank you for saving us from so much trial and error.
@fairviewman3924 Жыл бұрын
I agree with RF that confirmation bias drives a lot of the haters on this subject. I've been bowhunting for 47 years and have seen some pretty crazy, almost unexplainable things happen when an arrow hits a deer. As far as breaking bones, one complicating factor seems to be whether the bone, especially a leg bone, is loaded up under strain/tension when that broadhead hits it. I have had a couple of hard quartering away shots that hit the hind quarter just as the deer was loading his hind legs to bolt and the femur just shattered in both cases. Conversely I have hit a small buck right in the shoulder blade above ball joint just as the deer was raising his leg. Knocked him right off his feet and the arrow just fell out with no penetration using a Muzzy 3 blade head, and he just got up and walked away unhurt. I agree 100% that if I had been using a heavy arrow with better mechanical advantage it would have blown right through him. For all those who have had 147 kills on 147 shots and saw every one fall within sight, well God bless them. For the rest of us who have had some sleepless nights after a not so great hit, we'll keep looking for ways to get better and do better. Keep up the good work, Troy.
@camerannC9 ай бұрын
Love this.
@RanchFairy8 ай бұрын
And we are human after all. You can remain in the fairy dust nation forever. One of the best quotes ever on my channel is: "For all those who have had 147 kills on 147 shots and saw every one fall within sight, well God bless them"
@trevorryun2551 Жыл бұрын
Uh guys... the science doesn't lie! My setup is one that I'm confident in. Sirius Apollo 250's, 4 fletch, 100 grain insert, 200 grain grizzly stik massai. Shooting 30" draw at 65lbs. Out of an Elite Remedy. Absolutely the best flying setup and hardest hitting one I've ever shot. Either shoot adult arrows, or don't! But don't hate on the guys that have done decades of research proving the theory
@4door65dart8 Жыл бұрын
What vanes are you running? I'm set up the same as you with aae max and can't get the tail end to quit circling.
@trevorryun2551 Жыл бұрын
@@4door65dart8 Bohning X Vanes
@progradepainting3755 Жыл бұрын
So are you saying guys like Tim gillingham haven’t done decades of testing and proven the lethality of of a lighter, faster setup?
@waynemorris1999 Жыл бұрын
@@progradepainting3755I would love to see their test data. Can you point me in the right direction? Can I google something the same way I can the Ashby reports or is there a website?
@davidholliday27039 ай бұрын
Gillingham is a big, tall dude with a long draw and a crack shot. He is on a different level than the average bow hunter. We are not as good as him. So we level the field.
@2tiredpilot459 Жыл бұрын
495 grains at 16% foc and 265 fps, easily through both deer shoulder blades. 430 grains at 280 fps with magnus stinger split the ball joint on exit. Both broadheads were sharpened with fairy dust.
@garrettcox5616 Жыл бұрын
I went from shootings flappers on a 400 spine arrow to a magnus on a 300 spine arrow and it has significantly improved my on meat performance after diving into RF'S content quite heavily and its amazing how much i was leaving on the table shooting 70 pounds and never getting a pass through on 10 deer to getting 5 pass throughs on the first 5 deer i have shot since the change its mind boggling the difference
@Mitchell-ur7qt Жыл бұрын
The issue wasn't the flapper. It was shooting a severely underpinned arrow out of a 70# bow. I'd never go back to the shop that sold you those.
@garrettcox5616 Жыл бұрын
@Mitchell-ur7qt I never said it was because of the flapper and your right I was severely underspined and it happened when I was 18 cuz I bought the bow from Dick Sporting Goods so that was the whole problem.
@austinhall5933 Жыл бұрын
@garrettcox5616 sooooo none of the other stuff matters lol. Shoot the proper spine arrow, shoot a proper tuned bow and you are solid
@Whitetailpursuer Жыл бұрын
I appreciate all RF Mr. Ed has done for all us bow hunting enthusiasts. In particular this clarifying video on this bone breaking study. Ranch’s’ reading reminded me of my childhood when my mommy used to read me a bedtime story. May be a good idea to read from Dr. Ed’s studies every week! Keep’em coming RF!!!
@jimscott64 Жыл бұрын
The way I see this Troy, is that they don't know or don't understand this stuff as much as you and Dr. Ed do and they don't like it. That makes them feel bad, or just plain stupid. So they go out of their way to prove you wrong and that makes them feel better about themselves. I've seen this so many times in my 77 years here. The only-problem here is that: You can't argue with science! Jim
@fernandocarrera659 Жыл бұрын
Blue collar man here. I dont have time to deal with bones. The deer is dead when i get a shot thats why im at 700grains single bevel haha
@user-bj6zn6tl8w Жыл бұрын
This is very important to us traditional archers.
@ThirdLawPair Жыл бұрын
As a physicist, one huge thing that is not obvious to non-scientists is the premise of probability. Usually people will conceptualize things as being either totally random or totally deterministic. The premise that you can rigorously predict and determine the *probability* of something occurring is a subtle enough premise that you should expect some challenges in communicating such things. You don't actually have to be stupid to misunderstand something as subtle as this.
@chrispalffy3511 Жыл бұрын
Thanks RF. Ive gone from 465 grains to 600 grains with a 250 spine. Im loving it.
@hawknives Жыл бұрын
I was very glad to see The Hunting Public Crew, start learning from and testing with you. Those guys will excel! Christ bless!
@chrississon2646 Жыл бұрын
They already excelled , what’s your point?
@timl8302 Жыл бұрын
@@chrississon2646 He meant they are young & get much better as they get older. It was a compliment.
@jamesseed175225 күн бұрын
@ranchfairy youve helped me out tremendously, thanks for being the martyr for heavy arrow/high foc. Thanks to Dr. Ed, your research is tremendous for everyone. Shooting 73.5lb, 28inch draw, 713 grains with 21 to 22% foc. Also thanks Sirius!
@royleerobinson5 Жыл бұрын
I shot a small cow elk on a quartering away with a gold tip hunter 340 and a g5 fixed blade at 40 yards and maybe got 12” at best into the elk. I will never do that again. I did get the elk but it shouldn’t have went as far as it did. I’m hoping I get a shot this year with my current improved setup. The single bevels are flying like darts. I’m getting excited for September!!!!
@HuntingCreatures Жыл бұрын
Roy, I'm jealous to say the least. May you have great success in your elk hunt!! (that is my dream adventure)
@pensnut08 Жыл бұрын
That is so easy to understand.... Broadheads can and do break bones and they do that below 650 grains. BUT at around 650 grains ALL broadheads will see a sharp increase in the ability to break bone. Simple to understand. Shoot a light arrow into you target. Make note of the sound when it hits... Then use a heavy arrow.. A TOTALLY different sound. Whether you are shooting a vertical bow or a crossbow.
@ralphdeniscojr6198 Жыл бұрын
Hi, Thanks for your videos and knowledge on the bow efficiency to ethically harvest animals. I agree fully with Ed Ashbys research and testing the lethality of a bow and arrow. I understand the 650 grain threshold. The one thing not mentioned is the speed of the arrow he was using. I use a Magnus stinger and believe thye pocess 😮enough structural integrity to breach a whitetail deers bone structure with the accept of the shoulder knuckle providing you have enough momentum to penetrate efficiently and follow all the other thing like good arrow flight, a strong arrow and as much front of center without sacrificing arrow flight. I myself shot a 480 grain arrow and generate a out 70 lbs of kinectic energy and .6 momentum 19 percent Front of center with a 60 lb compound. I'm 62 and cant accurately shoot 70 lbs anymore. I'v been bow hunting for over 40 year and really never had trouble breaking ribs to get into the vitals I never experienced the scapula causing bad penetration it is actually softer than the ribs. I only take slight guartering shots. I don't risk bad angle shots I think the setups you are promoting are definitely are more effective and are top of the line the only problem for me is the cost to effectively achieve this amount of perfection. I believe I'm doing my best to ethically harvest Whitetails. Maybe someday I'll be able to financially afford to upgrade. Thank you for the knowledge you share. Good luck and safe hunting. Ralph
@justinsalzl151710 ай бұрын
Great video and great comments on confirmation bias. It has to be maddening to discuss this with people intentionally trying to misinterpret the study and never providing their own extensive research. Thanks for the education.
@jesse4530 Жыл бұрын
I appreciate the ol' RF. Especially the tuning vids and he will actually respond to an email clarifying anything that is unclear. Last year with the arrows/broadhead combo i had I shot 590g. This year a different combo going about 550, next year a little lighter. Maybe the next heavier, it just depends on what works on my animals and how I shoot each setup. Its a constant journey always tinkering.
@jamesparker7499 Жыл бұрын
Yep I hear you man. After sniffing a little fairy dust myself I've got fletching jigs sharpening tools all kinds of stuff I can quit trying different things. Belive my arrows are lethal.
@sinepari9160 Жыл бұрын
I hunt out west from 20-60 yards which is really all you should be taking game at no matter east/south/north/west responsibly with a bow and arrow. I have two arrow configs, 505 and 592 grains.. thats it. I carry both in my quiver and know the holdovers for both in those ranges because it's the only arrows I use. I practice with an iron will field point which is spot on tor their single bevel bh's out to that range and a four fletch 3 deg helical. Money on anything in NA and prob abroad as well... you're a good guy Troy and I watch every angle of bowhunting. You did your perspective with real data and that can never be discounted.
@progradepainting3755 Жыл бұрын
Good think you don’t make the rules on one’s personal abilities with a bow.
@cnervig Жыл бұрын
Aside from your entertainment value, I keep watching your chanel (or any other chanel you're a guest on) because i ALWAYS learn something new. Thanks and keep being you RF
@groundrootsoutdoors627 Жыл бұрын
Thank you “common core” education. Promoting stupidity in our youth. Good job Ranch good video
@glennbayley5863 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for another brilliant video while explained. I am afraid you are always going to get the demet's who want to disprove everything that they read. Even though they probably did not read the entire study that doctor add dead. You and the rocketman are brilliant. Putting the information in a way that everybody can understand. 👏👏👏🇺🇲👍🇬🇧👍
@Natedawg770 Жыл бұрын
This really clicked with me, extremely interesting!
@coatesfamily401 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for all the info. I am an old fart that was heavy into archery hunting until a work accident. I was devastated. Then along came crossbow hunting. But the early crossbows did not meet my standards for my accuracy. Crossbows evolved, now I hunt again. Thus, I am trying to teach an old dog new tricks. I love the info you give us. Back in the day we would hunt with wooden shafts and gluing Bodkins onto the shafts after our spin tests. We quickly found out that the long narrow tip was not a good idea. We blunted the tips and sharpened the tip into a tanto tip (if I was smart i would have patented it). My uncle was older and was only able to shoot a recurve at 50 pounds. He shot a deer at 20 yards and had a pass thru. We were amazed that the arrow had shattered both front shoulders! It's people like you that enable people like me to still keep on keeping on. Thank You
@zerotheklr650 Жыл бұрын
Awesome explanations. Based on my bow speed @ 70lbs I was losing kinetic energy with 650gn but happily settled on 565gn for best results. Punching through 44gal drums easy
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
Well, you're not doing good math. KE is constant. Until you get downrange. Then heavier objects retain more energy.
@michaelrosa5410 Жыл бұрын
Ashby is awesome and really helped open a focus to FOC which before his,really wasn't such a big topic. Kudu's to him. I still stand by, as a compound bow hunter, I follow after a 3 headed monster. KE,FOC,Momentum. Many people got off the KE thing we were on pretty hard in the early 2000's. KE is still relevant. KE is going to begin with your bow poundage capability to propel mass x speed. Lower the poundage, and you lose that mass by speed. They all are connected and work in unison with ofcourse a well tuned bow first and foremost. So my bone breaking increases from when I went from 70 pounds to 80 pounds. Don't know any of the statistics, but I examined plenty dead animals including maybe hundred animals dead with a Easton FMJ and never a catastrophic failure like we seen online. I'm settled on a 580 grain arrow 5mm 3K weave arrow shaft with a 50 grain stainless half out and 150 head on my 80 pound PSE EVO EVL 32 80% Let off,smashes any bone on any animal on North America easily. I have gone as far as 660+ total arrow weight using a 6.2mm arrow and really smoked bones too. The issue is, it's so heavy, I don't have enough tape on my sight to get much further than 60 yards. But a great arrow nonetheless,especially for hog hunting over a feeder. I don't know the statistics. I read and watch videos like this and get some help, Troy helped guide me because increasing FOC on 80 pounds isn't so easy. You tinker,and expreimen. I have the added advantage of a hunting lease year round hogs,and plnety of them to try things out. When deer season comes around, all my equipment has been proven to me and established. So thanks to guys like Ashby and Troy for just EXPOSING you to new ideas from proven scientific methods. It's up to you to fit it in with what you do. For me, I have 2 arrows that tune out of 2 bows for 2 different purposes. I'm happy. Question remains what would I use on a Elk or Bison ? I think both would work great,one will have distance limitations.
@ericwiitala5407 Жыл бұрын
Hopefully I can send you something this year. Spent a couple years tinkering. What I'm shooting now is what I'm going to stick with. Getting really good arrow flight and consistency with a 610 gr, 5mm Easton Axis w/ 150 gr left bevel Iron Will (250 gr up front). Fletchings have a left helical to match the bevel and natural rotation of the arrow. Hopefully a mule deer will cooperate and I'll let you know how it works.
@MatthewHerrin14 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Ranch Fairy! Keep em coming, I'd watch some videos of you fishing too if you have or post any
@jayoglesby9685 Жыл бұрын
I love watching your videos you and T Bone both preach FOC and it’s awesome I have been tinkering the last few years with foc and I have noticed a difference between higher foc and just slapping arrows together n hunting like I used to.
@The_Judge300 Жыл бұрын
T Bone might preach FOC, but he has an idiot of a friend with the name Waddell on his channel that do the same, but also talks about how great mechanics are and that no broadhead and arrow combo in the world is able to break humerus bone on adult deer and elk sized animals, so you might as well use a mechanic in his opinion. He is for sure saying this to sell his mechanic broadhead, but he is also either totally clueless or he is lying when saying that. I am shooting a 650 grain arrow at 260 fps with a 15% FOC and use a single bevel 2-blade broadhead(Cutthroat) and I have done that multiple times and where the arrow has still continued and left the animal on the other side. Also on elk sized animals. I have in fact never experienced a humerus stopping my arrows after I started to hunt with this setup. With this setup, I have never needed to be worried about bone stopping my arrows again, so as long as I know I can hit the right spot from whatever angle it is, I know my arrow is going to reach the vitals and kill the animal quickly. I never shoot behind the shoulder on angled towards shot as I see so many do, and where they often get a gut shot animal as the result. I aim/shoot for the top of the heart, no matter what. I never try to hit the humerus, so if I think that is directly in the way, I aim just to the side of where I think it is. It is always good to try to avoid it to be as safe as possible, even if it has always ended very well for me when I have hit it. I do a lot of still hunting and spot and stalk hunting, so I don't have the luxury of usually having great chances for perfect broadside shots like when sitting in a treestand or in a blind.
@jayoglesby9685 Жыл бұрын
@@The_Judge300 wow you seem salty as hell about a guy talking about using a mechanical who cares hunt with what makes ya happy. That’s why we all do what we want and hunt with what with what we want. They like mechanicals you like a 2 blade single bevel it’s all each their own. I use mechanicals and fixed heads an have had plenty of success. These videos are here for people to learn from not for someone like you to go on a long rant about a guy that has probably more success hunting than you by a long shot n he does say he is blessed and lucky to have the opportunities like he has but guess what they use what works for them.
@timbow50 Жыл бұрын
If anyone has ever seen the old 1930’s? Howard Hill African bow hunting expedition movie you will see he uses a very narrow long two blade head. Wooden shafts naturally. No idea of the weight. Point is his points had a great “ mechanical “ design for superior penetration. Long and narrow. I’m assuming he used very heavy shafts with a 70-80 bow? He wasn’t naive enough to use a light draw weight for African game. Troy, love this video because so much information is based on hundreds of animals examined after the kill. No guessing, research and facts
@waynemorris1999 Жыл бұрын
If you like the history of archery, “the Great War bow” might interest you. It’s about medieval archery. There are historical text that describe the bow and arrow specs. Which is why we still measure in grains.
@Elkmonger2 ай бұрын
I watched my cousin who was shooting a 58# compound bow (some Bowtech bow from about three years ago) shooting a Rage Hypodermic mechanical broadhead hit an Elk in a rib bone at 18 yards and it looked like the arrow BOUNCED OFF THE ELK? It had about an inch of blood on the shaft back from the MANGLED broadhead. Now I would never ever shoot a mechanical broadhead at an Elk, but he would and did. The following year he was shooting Helix and hit a bull at 21 yards up hill. He drove the arrow through part of the elbow joint and went about through the heart. Now you know a heart shot doesn't usually produce an instant kill. So we walk up on the thing and he shoots it square in the ass. It wobbles off to about 45 yards and stands broadside. With this shot he smokes it behind the shoulder a nice double lung shot. Arrow blows through like nothing. At the point the Elk explodes down hill (steep down hill) and piles up about 80 yards away on the only flat spot on that mountain that I think existed. I'd like to note that everyone we ever talked to about hunting Elk (including me) begged him with tears in our eyes to NOT shoot an Elk with a Hypodermic mechanical. I still shoot a Hoyt Super Slam legacy, 73#, 30" Draw, 2315 with 125 muzzy 3 blade. I'm shooting 218fps. Finger tab.
@johnk5193 Жыл бұрын
Ranch Fairy is awesome! Keep up the GREAT work Troy!
@tttd3e Жыл бұрын
Went from shooting Walmart Specials..cheap Blazer Vanes with a cheap expandable head.. to a RF Apollo 250 spine at 29 1/2 in w/ a 125 Single Bev: totaling 578.06 grs ( I wanted to go 200 single bev, but my 2012 Bear Strike would not allow it) I get laughed at a bow shops, I get "you're shooting javelins", and "you listen to Ranch Fairy, he's a quack only shooting pigs at 20 yrds"... when mainstream "finger on the pulse" type people are telling you you're wrong... I want to listen to Troy even more....yeah I used the last sight tape on my Tetra, but I'd rather have a HEAVY BadASS perfectly paper tuned with a Shit ton of Momentum than what I previously was using.. Nobody taught me anything about Archery Hunting, I stumbled onto Mr. Fowler's channel and I never looked back.. NO the arch out to 60 yards isn't hitting the treetop, no it's not limiting.. It makes me more confident, makes be a better hunter, and makes me cocky as fuck when I go into Bow shops and outsmart either the Flat Billed 5'6 neck beards and/or the white hair in the ears fud boys when they try to tell me I'm "shooting the wrong arrow"
@paulkerby4829 Жыл бұрын
There will always be people who do not read the full article
@chrisruzsa2798 Жыл бұрын
Still amazes me how people try to discredit or disprove Ed’s studies. I can never understand how today’s equipment fails at killing in such close ranges when these things were used in war to kill people in plate armour, chain mail and heavy gambeson at 400-500 yards and people say 3-6 inches of penetration is okay or an arrow deflects at 60 and they say thats hunting?!?!? People have no idea the weapons that they “use” and they make them so inefficient and ineffective. It really blows my mind. For me though i think there is too much emphasis on the grains. I get it i know why thats there but i think the focus should be momentum. Because the kinetic energy machine plays a HUGE factor too. And i don’t think its fair to ignore this. Different draw weights different draw length’s different mechanical advantages will all be different. Example a 30 lb draw recurve will pass through and animal with a 650 gr arrow because the momentum out of that is around 0.6-07 a compound with 80 lbs can get 0.6-0.7 with a 540 grain and so on. I really think its the slugs of momentum that mean the most and if you want to use a mechanical head you need more momentum than if you used a fixed head. I really think once you have all the factors: arrow flight, structural, integrity, head sharpness ect, ect, getting to 0.5 and higher preferably of slugs is all you need. There is a diminishing return which occurs with anything that launches a projectile. And the kinetic energy machine determines what that is. My crossbow did not like 630 grains they do not fly good and goes way too slow for the scope to be accurate. (Could have been how i made them) but 565 is still 0.7 slugs just like the 630 were and it does better it does it a little faster and the momentum is the exact same. You need to test your equipment to see what is right for you and your kinetic energy machine they are not all the same. So I understand the 650 bone breaking mark but what is that in terms of slugs? 0.6-0.8 range? That Troy would be a thing to look at.
@waynemorris1999 Жыл бұрын
Have you read “the Great War bow”?
@chrisruzsa2798 Жыл бұрын
@@waynemorris1999 no
@The_Judge300 Жыл бұрын
I have one setup that works extremely well on all critters I hunt. That means everything up to a cape buffalo, but not a cape buffalo. And that is a 650 grain arrow at 260 fps, with a FOC of 15%. I have used that setup for 15+ years with great success now. I have broken numerous humerus on different critters with this, including elk sized ones. If the critter is rather small, I use a Slick Trick Magnum or even a mech like the Spitfire Maxx. If the critter starts to become medium sized, like a whitetail doe, I ditch the mech and either use the Slick Trick, a Magnus Stinger or even a Cutthroat. If the critter becomes elk sized and bigger, I ditch the Slick Trick and the Magnus Stinger and only use the Cutthroat. The main reason for why I don't use the Cutthroat all the time, is because they are rather expensive broadheads to lose if I am not able to find it again after the shot as I always have the arrow flying on the other side of the animal after a shot unless I hit the spine. The same happens with the other broadheads as well, but they are far from as expensive if I am not able to find them again. I do most of my hunting from the ground still hunting or stalking, so losing the arrow after shooting an animal is not uncommon.
@jango_bmx1111 ай бұрын
Came for the info, subscribed for the sarcasm. Planning to buy some adult arrows for this season
@joshtrauger3088 Жыл бұрын
Nice flex. I see that green bottle in the background 😂😂
@trevorwright3769 Жыл бұрын
Very excited to try out my high FOC set up this season! I have followed RF for years. This year I had a absolute stud of a whitetail show up regularly. The location is a perfect area to hunt traditional. So I plan to shoot a 700+g tradstar this year. We live in southern Oklahoma on a 10,000acre ranch so hopefully can get some test subjects in before deer season.
@trevorwright3769 Жыл бұрын
@RanchFairy I purchased a 250 spine tradstar with 200g inserts and 300g field points planning to shoot the tuffhead. The recurve I plan to shoot is 55lb would you suggest a collar for added integrity? Also do you think a 200g RF broadhead would be a better selection?
@jeffhays1968 Жыл бұрын
Crossbow running Sirius Phoenix 22 inch carbons, 125 grain inserts and Ranch Fairy (tuffheads) 200 grain single bevel. 625 grains. So am I almost there ? LOL. Gonna keep what I got, this all works fantastic for me so far !
@jeffhays1968 Жыл бұрын
Easy fix if I want to get anal about it, just use a 300 grain tuffhead single bevel. Not going to, but it's right there, all I need is a bank card.
@justafan5179 Жыл бұрын
Hey Troy, you're doing an amazing job... but the realization just hit me, as I'm turning 30... that apparently 2008 was 15 years ago. Do you know if the Ashby Foundation is in the process of a 2028 update, using everything from blazing fast, lightweight arrows, to the heavyweight bruisers... mechanical and fixed blade? I feel like technology has changed so much, especially in the past 10 years, that it's tough to quantify. I'd be surprised if anything could beat the 650 grain fixed blade... but it would be awesome to have a more recent update, that uses all styles of archery equipment, to reach a definitive conclusion. I'd love to see that collaboration... not just on big game, but deer, and pigs too. Keep up the great work, man! I just received the 200 grain broadheads from Sirius, and they look incredible. One more paycheck and I'll order the test kit.
@cajun31978 ай бұрын
I really like your channel. I’m learning a lot. Having to forget many things I thought was true
@RanchFairy8 ай бұрын
Holler anytime on Insta or troy@ranchfairy.com
@thecatchtoday1056 Жыл бұрын
Trying to get hunters to understand that something increases odds of success or lowers odds of success instead of absolute results is difficult. Statistics don't lie, people just misinterpret them haha good clarifications!
@paulwakefield1015 Жыл бұрын
good point. and unfortunately this isn't in just the hunting world. many people struggle to have an open mind, think critically, and consider data, facts, and evidence.
@thecatchtoday1056 Жыл бұрын
@paulwakefield1015 it's not just the hunting world, but the marketing in the outdoor industry is overwhelmingly affecting opinions over results
@C.Fowler Жыл бұрын
The intro is AWESOME!! Hahaha. Great video, well said..
@marksamluk9879 Жыл бұрын
You get one shot. Maybe less then a handful times in the season. Make sure it counts and your able to put meat in the Freezer.
@musthavefaith81422 ай бұрын
How did Howard Hill get by without the book of "Hunting arrow weight for Dummies" I know "COMMON SENSE"
@scooterbug1976 Жыл бұрын
Good job RF. . Never seen so many know it alls outside of archery. And i do medicine for a living. Lol
@PatriotCanadian Жыл бұрын
I started 400 twizzlers.. moved up 300 spline 150 Magnus BraodHead Scalpel Sharp . 540 grains. Still a bit shy of 650 .but 540 and sharp broad head.pass threw !
@josephaguiar4361 Жыл бұрын
Last season I went up in arrow and bow weight 76# hoyt ventum pro 33 arrows are rip tko 250 spine with 75g inserts, 15g collar and a 200g tuffhead evolution (580g total) I've never seen so much arrow penetration. Took a quartering towards shot and broke 2 bones on a whitetail. The first was a rib. The second was after the arrow exited lower opposite abdomen, struck and broke its hind leg. The arrow continued going and was embedded into the ground. Total tracking was approximately 50 to 60 yards. I'm strongly considering bringing my bow up to 82# and switching to 200 spine sirius Gemini with 100g inserts and 200g rf single bevels
@user-zo1by9yk3n Жыл бұрын
Ok ranch fairy I have a story you might fund funny. Yesterday I go to my local bow shop ( macks Prarie wings) to get my arrows 4 fletcher and add a 100gr insert to replace my 50 gr, putting me around d 520 grains. The guy who runs the shop whose name I will not mention because he is a reputable guy in the area, refused to put the 100gr insert in my arrows and I formed me he shoots twizzlers and flappers with a 400gr arrow and does fine. So it looks like I'll be ordering adult arrows from you
@tttd3e Жыл бұрын
Apollos!!
@urmominabox872 ай бұрын
You see that makes no sense to me. Your money is just as green as the speed demon guys and you're the one that's going to be the end user of the product so why would they refuse to build them to your specs?
@joemurray8902 Жыл бұрын
HAHAHAHAHAH NICE! Finishing with the hunter shooting a goat length wise through it's entire body and saying yah, 650 gn's! LOL
@donaldvonlintig8445 Жыл бұрын
Remember what Chris Rock Said .. "Readin is for Rich People" 😂
@theroncorbett7991 Жыл бұрын
I never heard a “boom flopper” say they are going Elk hunting and need to buy a 22-250? It’ll kill them too with perfect shot placement though right?
@hunterlawrence7228 Жыл бұрын
Love the content. Keep it up!
@mr.skeptical3071 Жыл бұрын
I have definitely noticed more penetration with my flappers by adding a 100 gr. Brass Insert.
@HuntingCreatures Жыл бұрын
slowly walking into the dark side!
@ravenflight88 Жыл бұрын
Lol the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to pound finish nails, works great until the nails bend. Just get a cut on contact broadhead you'll never want those junk points again.
@renurenovationsllc7780 Жыл бұрын
Did they experiment with the speed because that could make that 650 grain number much lower, the reason I say this is on my old bow, My 295 grain arrows had better penetration into my targets then my current 365 grain arrows, not hunting with this now but have shot deer with the 295 grain arrows, and broken bone, in multiple spots. Granted the arrow was traveling at 387fps. I do not know, but suspect this was done with one bow one weight. That makes the 650 only relevant to one exact setup.
@ravenflight88 Жыл бұрын
@@renurenovationsllc7780 read the study. If I recall the tests were done with bows as low as 40lb draw weights up to 80 something. Anyway it's not the speed so much as the momentum heavy hits harder no matter the launch speed. Think of it this way if you drop a grapefruit and and a bowling ball from the same height they achieve the same gravitational speed which ones going to break the bones in your foot when it hits? Also an arrow looses speed over distance the threshold is figured through momentum once again the heavy one hits harder and retains more forward momentum even as the speed decreases, the lighter faster arrow degrades in both speed and forward momentum. It's basic physics. An object in motion remains in motion until an equal opposite force is applied. That's why we need motors in cars for forward continuous movement an arrow or a bullet encounters atmospheric drag aka air resistance that inturn slows them down thats the opposing force the other opposing force is contact with the target. As Dr. Ashby stated an arrow is always in flight until it reaches the point that the opposing forces are equal.
@mikemeyers4016 Жыл бұрын
I’m not pandering, but I don’t worry anymore where I place my shot, calm down I still shoot for the vital v but I really don’t stress over all the stuff I used to worry about , and another awesome effect of my heavy arrow is my bow is crazy quiet!!!
@hawknives Жыл бұрын
I know all about there is! Watch the young man run, he'll be runnin' against the wind. Lol!
@howardrichburg2398 Жыл бұрын
Heavy arrow effiecentcy is pretty easy. What do You want to get hit by, a hardball at 80 mph or a tennis ball at 90 mph? Which is going to break more bone? Which will fly farther.? Which will be less effected by the wind or some odd twig?
@Lost_Hwasal Жыл бұрын
The problem with hunters, especially these kinds of "keep everything stupid simple and never try to be better" is that they aren't scientists, they dont have a STEM background, they dont understand how numbers and data works. I wish Ashby just posted the raw data, an arrow hitting game is such a complex process with so many variables that its difficult to make any concrete conclusions about anything.
@rosskeeling4459 Жыл бұрын
I'm shooting really heavy arrows by accident. I was trying to build a 665 grain arrow, but I cut my first shaft too short and I'm too cheap to throw them away, so I added heavier points until it spined properly. My prototype arrow ended up being 740 grains. And now that's all I shoot out of my 60# recurve. I could shoot lighter, faster arrows...but why? Thanks for all that stuff you do RF. Great videos. Very informative.
@Matt_hasshots Жыл бұрын
The other channels trying to play off of ur content are funny too saying ur too radical with heavy setups and they start preaching a "middle of the road" arrow telling ppl that's the best way to go. Meanwhile, their videos show them rarely getting pass throughs unless the animal is less than 12 yards away 😂
@chrispegg6547 Жыл бұрын
35 year detective. A good investigation examines all available evidence without bias and works forward to find the truth of the matter. A poor investigation first jumps to a conclusion of what the result will be and then only includes biased evidence that supports that conclusion - the end result is the truth gets left behind. A lot like politics.
@richardcummings4374 Жыл бұрын
Keep it up RF! Truly, I don’t believe archery hunters will ever agree. However, when they hit a deer in the scapula and find their arrow (without the deer) that only penetrated 2-3 inches, they should build a pan B setup. Some folks are stubborn. Keep buying Chinese junk steel😂
@stick__shooter Жыл бұрын
Sure a lot of "-ish" and "about" and "approximates" in there. How can you assign a specific weight of arrow to "bone breaking threshold" without any regard for speed, KE, and momentum? A 650 grain arrow shot from any bow setup will break bone better? We are still talking about his tests performed with long bows here? He didn't find any broadheads that could penetrate bone 100% of the time at less than 650 grains with a longbow? How about with a modern compound? How about on different species of game? Do I need 650 grains to breach bone on a pronghorn? On a whitetail? On a cottontail? Or are we just talking about water buffalo and applying that data to every single game species? As far as mechanical advantage for broadheads, the standard for measuring MA treats it as a ramp with something being slid along the edge and doesn't take into account that the broadhead blade is cutting, not pushing material along it. Bill at Iron Will explains it better than I could. I'll stick with my 450 grain "Plan A" Pixie Sticks for North American game.
@ericwolbert3256 Жыл бұрын
The bottom line people are afraid of change!
@ryanbrooks3390 Жыл бұрын
That's science these days. Start with a conclusion. Like "safe and effective"
@miket8018 Жыл бұрын
Brilliant!!!
@jeffboutilier5075 Жыл бұрын
Seems simple enough to understand to me
@jasongobbell3578 Жыл бұрын
There’s melted Snowflakes all over KZfaq now lol thank you #RanchFairy.
@paulwakefield1015 Жыл бұрын
Excited to watch! so i hear a lot of noise that ashby studies on physics doesn't apply in a world of compound bows; that it only applies to trad equipment. Was wondering if Troy has ever unpacked what seems to be a common misconception.
@BriarJumper Жыл бұрын
F=MA does not have a variable for trad/compound...
@paulwakefield1015 Жыл бұрын
@@BriarJumper agreed. Then where does this narrative come from that we are discounting the laws of physics because the arrow is moving slower. I’m just not sure where that narrative originated from .
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
@@paulwakefield1015 Ashby foundation website. Supplemental reports 2021 and 2022 on buffalo. Compound, 80#. the ABF continues to test. So F=MA is hard to get over....but the speed thing is fair. It is going faster. Enter the Drag Equation. Nasa has a bunch of information on this. Velocity SQUARED increases drag, same with KE.. In the air, in meat, etc. Do I think the faster arrows help, yep. But its not the crazy gains people think. Without tuning arrows and having great broadheads.
@rykerpuckett2883 Жыл бұрын
Surprising how many old guys I talk to and really good archers that still stick to the super light arrow with a flapper on it. Of course they have success because that’s all they’ve used like what? They completely ignore their failures that some could’ve been avoided with a little heavier arrow with a fixed head.
@jeffmitchell-qh4jp Жыл бұрын
Well theres lots of us old guys who never used flappers and never will. I think thats more of the young archers thing.
@lawrencefranck94177 ай бұрын
@@jeffmitchell-qh4jpexactly always been above 550 and didnt know I was…
@darthevader32769 ай бұрын
Bone breaking is a function of psi not necessarily mass
@RanchFairy9 ай бұрын
So.....uh..... Perfect arrow flight Broadheads and inserts that don't bend Broadheads that can break bone if needed Blades that don't fly off. and then we can talk but mass is a direct contributor to (we'll play along with PSI for your sake) mass is a direct contributor to DOWNRANGE delivered energy on target. I have a whole playlist showing the downrange energy retention out to 60 yards. It was pretty amazing.
@johnarcher94804 ай бұрын
True story
@vinceholcomb88459 ай бұрын
If you get time, I've NEVER seen a video on single bevels breaking bone with a realistic poundage traditional bow 45-50 lb. I wonder if there is an energy threshold for the bevel to be relevant ?
@alexlindekugel87279 ай бұрын
in 95 percent of deer ive shot and recovered bones where cut threw not broken. shoot more like a 450 grain arrow cant rember exact waights atm and dk where my scale is to waight them. but the other 5 percent there was atleast a part cut into bone then bone shanped likly due to weakening and then strain as animal ran. you can ezly break bones when have a point of stress that will focuse forces aplied to the bone. bone is really no difrent that a weld assembly. if there a stress riser chance of failar greatly goes up. and to untrained eye a half brok bone may look like a fully broken bone.
@IntuitiveUniversity Жыл бұрын
Half way through. That's pretty simple science 😂
@kevinfox2370 Жыл бұрын
love your content.
@eriktucker7885 Жыл бұрын
@Ranchfairy I heard you say in one of your recent videos that if you have bleeder blades up front they are not as effective as if they were in the back. Any feedback on that would be appreciated. Love the videos man! 🤙🏾
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
Not anything Ive researched....yet. Just makes sense to have them small and as far back as possible to allow the main blade time to start the penetration work.
@Beaubeaujangles Жыл бұрын
@@RanchFairybasically want the bleeders to be the clean-up crew instead of the opening act if you’re gonna have em
@scottpeterson6725 Жыл бұрын
I like to tinker, so I landed on a setup right at 800 grains. People say it's too much but I had fun and it was successful. Right side scapula, rib, soft stuff, rib, left side scapula, not a sound. Spun away from me at the shot arrow pointed back at me on the ground. 2 jumps and lights out.
@niketmurudkar Жыл бұрын
I thought of some anatomy videos there.
@maxgeorge8746 Жыл бұрын
Love it. Thank you
@benzy211 ай бұрын
Sounds like a lot of theory…the same type of theory that says you can’t get a long broadhead to shoot as accurate as a mechanical. It’s all irrelevant without testing data. If you cannot show how it matters on the equipment being used today vs just what is ideally better then what’s the point? And if it’s so close from a game recovery aspect that the answer is “it’s too small of an aspect compared to all other variables in a hunt” then I’m not paying good money to change. So let’s see the data or just admit you’re guessing in practice.
@RanchFairy11 ай бұрын
Ashby bowhunting foundation. Ashby reports. Good place to start The point of this video is the bone breaking potential approaches 100% "around 650 grains" with all Ashby factors. So, no, it's not "too close to call". 100% is a pretty solid goal. Further, this video states as you move DOWN in mass, the potential goes down linearly.
@HUNTERSADVANTAGE Жыл бұрын
Good stuff!
@zackshivel6581 Жыл бұрын
That last viewer video was excellent choice, exclamation point, etc… any one arguing with heavy arrows work better when perfection doesn’t is simple ignorance. Just keep shankin some of those big pigs for the cause.
@unsupportedultra Жыл бұрын
Can we define what is “Heavy Bone”? I’m assuming a whitetail scapula doesn’t fall into this category, but a humerus or knuckle probably would? Whitetail ribs definitely done, but elk might? I think this would clear things up for many people. I shoot an 8 factor arrow that is 480gr and it will absolutely double shoulder blade a whitetail. Now what happens when it hits an elk humerus, I don’t know.
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
Scapular flat and ribs are not heavy bone. Humerus, ball of humerus, pelvis, femur, and the RIDGE of the scapula are heavy bone. Your point is well taken. As the animals go up in size, the bones get bigger.
@unsupportedultra Жыл бұрын
@@RanchFairy And that’s about what I figured the answer would be. We get too many of the “hurr durr muh rages blow clean through ribs!!” And just totally miss what heavy bone means. Hell, a spine hit at the right angle (unless them deer always stand still and never spin) could fall in the heavy bone category.
@holdleftedgeandsendit935110 ай бұрын
the ignorance I hear people spout off about some of your videos blows my mind. so many so you only say to build 850 grain arrows and I tell them they are full of it. the 550-650 area is money for most people
@MagVair Жыл бұрын
You should make a video and read some of your hate mail!? That might be very entertaining! 🤣😂🤣
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
I may do that.
@joshuaadams6768 Жыл бұрын
You need a shirt that says "page two, paragraph two."
@ScottWConvid19 Жыл бұрын
Nice way to end the video!
@timl8302 Жыл бұрын
They used an Asiatic Water Buffalo @ 20y. Besides ball joints & the bone area around the ball joint are heavy bone on a whitetail, Mule Deer & ELK. The question is what is the definition of 'Heavy bone & 'Medium bone'? Is it a diameter or density? I am just asking to get a sense of proportion as to effectiveness of a 500gr -600gr. on common US/Canada big game leg bones. Feral Camels & Cattle excepted. I'm just trying to figure things out from comparing Cape & Water Buffalo at short distance to common quadrupeds game. OK, I'll even add sheep & Mt. Goats to the mix. Yes, I've read Dr Ed starting years ago.
@waynemorris1999 Жыл бұрын
That’s a fair question. I did hit an elk in the spine which could be considered heavy bone. A combo of factors created a poor shot. I had a 12 factor arrow and it split a thoracic vertebrae. A second shot finished it. I don’t “think” my old, light arrows would have done that.
@timl8302 Жыл бұрын
@@waynemorris1999 I agree. CONGRATS on it. Even if it was a little high. I'm mainly looking at front leg bones.Which are the most likely bones encountered. But, I get just a few deer tags a year. No Elk, Stag or Muleys, Axis, Audads, or Nilgai. Update: Yes, the spine is a heavy bone.
@mr.Mikeyboy Жыл бұрын
Well u know ur doin something right when the haters are talking!! Do u boo boo😂
@danielshields344 ай бұрын
When I mention this study to people, the common response I get is "well that's with a recurve, not a compound". How can I respond to that?
@RanchFairy4 ай бұрын
Ashby foundation website. supplemental reports. UPDATES!! 2020 / 2021 80# compound - cape buff and asiatic buff. Eds Arrow still won the testing.
@larrydaetweiler3912 Жыл бұрын
Completely agree with the Ashby stuff and everything you do RF. Still waiting to see if this aspect can be expanded on with today’s equipment. For instance, 605 grains going 270 could have the same bone breaking ability as say 675 going 235? Point is certainly speed is going to have some effect and finding that happy medium. And I’m sure testing this would be laborious.
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
Not chipping at you. This is for the crowd. It's amazing the industry is allowed to make anecdotal comments and put down the Ashby reports. But they don't repeat the test with the magic arrows and "efficient" bows. It's pretty easy. Go do the test and shoot a 12 factor arrow against everything. Simple as pie. Nope. The easy route is sitting in the basement eating Corn Pops.
@MrAPCProductions Жыл бұрын
Ashby had to be shooting aluminums right? 2219, 2317, and 2419? I wonder if the 14gpi had a major effect of the 650 factor being from the weight or the arrow build being so high, because he had to shoot stiffer spine aluminum shafts that weighed more?
@edashby4399 Жыл бұрын
I used all types of shafting in the heavy bone testing - wood, aluminum, fiberglass, and carbon arrow shafts. The type of shaft material showed no variance in the bone-breaching rate.
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
How do you like that. You have a reply, from the man himself!!
@hawknives Жыл бұрын
k knuckle heads! Its already been done. Learn from the best, Dr Ashby. Let us know when you are shooting a 90 pound long bow and a 1200 grain arrow....then open yer pie holes. Lol!
@gavinsmitty23 Жыл бұрын
I need some help/advice from anyone watching. Im about to order a ranch fairy bareshaft test kit but not sure what spine. I shoot. 27in arrow at 57-60lbs. I was going to do the 250/300 but wondering if I need to get the 300/350… every dumb spine chart says 400 but I know that’s too high. Let me know!
@YoureSoVane Жыл бұрын
Depends on the point weight, but 350 should be good to over 200gr. I don't know when it transitions to a 300 spine, though.
@308blr2 Жыл бұрын
I recommend 250/300. Our setups are closely matched. I have been told my older bow has “aggressive cams”; and don’t really know if that’s a consideration. Consider how heavy you want your total arrow. At 535 grains I use 300 spine Victory V-Force shafts. I’ll be building roughly 735 grain arrows and will likely need 250 spine shafts. Have fun! This stuff is a blast!
@YoureSoVane Жыл бұрын
@@308blr2 Aggressive cams do play a role. How big depends on how aggressive. FWIW I'm running 30" 80#, with 28-28.5" arrows. Low point weight I can use 250s, but anything higher than 200gr overall point weight I need to run a 200.
@jesse4530 Жыл бұрын
You could just buy a kit, then buy a single shaft and basically have both kits. That's what I'd do if I was on the fence.
@308blr2 Жыл бұрын
@@jesse4530 Not a bad idea. A couple of years ago I made my own kit with various shafts that I could buy two at a time; and I combined it with Ethics Archery points in their multi pack. I think either way works well. Sirius Archery has some fine products.
@angryheathen3463 Жыл бұрын
Rain in Texas in July? I thought that was a myth lol.
@BattleBendOutdoors Жыл бұрын
397grains will do all the bone breaking you want at 70lbs got the evidence all over my channel love the science tho and yeah i dont read 👍🏻
@Willowbrook_homestead3 ай бұрын
at what speed were these arrows tested? and how much does this have an effect on grain weight? can you use a lighter arrow that's faster? what about the bows poundage? 50 vs 75 vs 100lbs... i have so many questions lol.
@RanchFairy3 ай бұрын
See my long range arrow performance playlist. Holler anytime Troy@ranchfairy.com
@Powerdad50000 Жыл бұрын
But I gotta go fast!
@ThumbsMcThumb Жыл бұрын
Reading & comprehension are two different things apparently.
@RanchFairy Жыл бұрын
Alas,
@cajun31978 ай бұрын
What type of arrow build would it take for an intended brachial plexus shot? This would be an interesting subject. Not that I’m planning to do so
@RanchFairy8 ай бұрын
650-700 grains. Perfect arrow flight. Preferably the Tuffhead 3:1 225 or 300 grain broadhead on a steel or titanium adaptor, JB welded together. That setup at 800 grains has broken the humerus on a Cape buffalo. On a deer. It's gonna be a hammer.
@cajun31978 ай бұрын
@@RanchFairy thank you for the reply! I just took a screenshot of this. I love this subject but I have a lot to learn
@cajun31978 ай бұрын
@@RanchFairy would you suggest 80lb mods on my Mathews lift 29.5?
@RanchFairy8 ай бұрын
@@cajun3197 You can do it. But it's a 100% start over on your whole arrow set. So whatever you're shooting now, will not work.My assumption is you're not shooting 80#. If you are, youre good.
@RanchFairy8 ай бұрын
@@cajun3197 Message me on insta if you have questions.