Can’t believe you forced me into this! 🙈😫🥋

It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it plays out for em.

I’m a Muay Thai guy with no karate experience at all, yet here I am. Sensei Seth is rad.

It's always a good sign when the video starts with, "This was such a bad idea."

Kyokushin and shotokan. Extra points for the coolest names in all of martial arts.

Currently practicing Kyokushin and love it, just wish it didn't have the flaws mentioned. Old-school Kyokushin did have face punches but Oyama's insistence on being a bare-knuckle style meant lots of injuries in sparring so they eventually dropped it rather than adopting gloves. Then after Oyama passed Kyokushin split off into a bunch of different factions with different rules and standards. Still love it for it's focus on building tough fighters, just gotta make sure I take a few boxing classes on the side.

2:37 kempo karate 4:00 kenpo 4:14 kyokushin karate 5:45 isshin ryu karate 7:25 uechi ryu karate 8:56 wado ryu karate 11:25 sport karate 14:34 shotokan karate 17:29 wado ryu karate 17:34 goju ryu karate 19:25 shito ryu karate 21:02 isshin ryu karate and wado ryu karate 21:30 shorin ryu karate 23:32 kudo (karate+judo) 24:43 ameridote 25:40 cobra kai

Biggest takeaway: Karate is one of the best supplemental martial arts if you combine it with the things it’s lacking

You agree with everything he says until he gets to your style

In Ameridote, their axe kick has an actual axe. This rating is heresy of the lowest order, sir.

Kudo definitely needs to become more popular. It's pretty much MMA with japanese martial arts aesthetic. I have trained it and can guarantee that it would be really interesting to see in western style MMA

I used to be a practitioner of gujo ryu for many years in my younger days and in my opinion it deserves A. The practical real word use and application of chokes and grapples gives it an edge over other ‘strike’ only styles.

I actually train Kyokuahin and I can tell you it is hard full contact fights in Sport version where the rule set bans head punches. However kicks to the head are allowed. In training, head punches are taught for defence purposes, and we are taught what is required to end a fight quickly for defence. Lastly for black back we are required to demonstrate stamina in full contact sparring under the rule set. We do have Kata, but it is now massive focus with some instructors, but it is on others

Wado Guy here, we do some intense training at times. Body shots, and I've been punched a lot in the face by accident. Glad to see y'all rated it high. We do do throws, but no actual ground fighting. A judoka will crush us

Great Thanks for the quick and dirty description of the styles and explaining your ranking philosophy. Love both you guys and your work. You too Icy Mike

Rex Kwon Do, developed after 8 years of fighting in the octagon

So, inevitably someone hates me by now. IM SORRY. What did I get most wrong? What about most right??

Did someone mention external shoulder rotation and accidentally summon Athlean X?

I practice Isshin-Ryu, the reason why it became so popular in the US is because Tatsuo Shimabuku taught the style to American soldiers who were stationed in Okinawa. After the war, the soldiers returned home and opened their own dojos overseas. I definitely recommend reading more about Tatsuo and Isshin-Ryu, interesting history and origin

After 50 years of Isshinryu training, numerous real fights and law enforcement service, my Isshin has never failed me! I think you need to raise the rating. I have trained several officers, with a lot of real life violence's and they also attest that Isshin was the best and most practical training that they received in their law enforcement careers.

9:36 "This new and exciting martial art" - the video footage accompanying this is gold xD

I might just wanna say something, with all the different organizations out there, kyokushinkan has face punches in shinken shobu ruleset. All the dojo under kyokushinkan train them. It was reintroduced. They have this shinken shobu tournaments where you can punch the face, elbow,sweeps you can use grappling and 10sec ground work.kudo like rules but no head gear only mma gloves. Hope you'll look it up.

Jess, Seth, you gentlemen are my definition of a martial arts dream team. Keep up the phenomenal work, brothers.

I do isshinryu and we spar almost every single class

i love this!. My top 3 is: Kudo, kyokushin, Kempo (shorinji) for all this full contact sparring. It seems to be more realistic for me. Cheers from Chile! ;)

“Kyokushin doesn’t punch to the face” never gets old. Very true in tournament rules, not true as a whole in the style. Come on gentlemen. Loved the video none the less. Osu

You guys have mad stones to do this video! I think we all agree that a lot of this depends on the individual, the instructor and other factors. This is going to be entertaining!

I definitely disagree with putting Shito-ryu below Shotokan. As opposed to Funakoshi who actively discouraged sparring, Mabuni Kenwa developed a wide variety of protective armour to be used in full-contact sparring. Traditional shito-ryu schools spar often in a variety of rulesets such as point, continuous point, full contact etc. That was probably the one you are most incorrect on IMO

Im a Kenpo black belt, but ive moved on from the style years and years ago. It was supposed to be a street version of Karate. I dont disagree with its placement here, but youve got to check out Jeff Speakmans Kenpo 5.0!! Master Parker wanted his students to adapt the art with the times, and mostly no one has at all, except Jeff Speakman. Ive never had the opportunity to train it but there is a lot of footage and info about it. He improved on all the old curriculum and added clinch, more takedowns, and tons of BJJ. It was designed with the mindset of beating an mma fighter in the street. Very cool looking. Love the videos and always learn something!!

Nice video and rankings. After switching from Shotokan to Goju Ryu, there's some things I'd like to point out. There's almost no bunkai in Shotokan. You'd have to at least get a black belt and maybe study superficial Bunkai. Shotokan is very similar to Sports Karate in the sense that it emphasizes going in, attacking and getting out. The problem is that Shotokan (and Sport Karate) does not prepare someone to get hit and respond after getting hit. There's no self defense applications and all fighting scenarios are long distance as Shotokan was Japanized and follows the ma-ai principles from Kendo. The coolest thing about Shotokan though is teaching the mentality of hitting hard with a finishing blow. It is also a rigid Japanese system which is cool as well. On the other hand you have Goju. Honestly, I tend to compare Goju very much with Uechi. They share similar concepts, circularity, tons of applications. When you do belt testing in Goju, you have to show applications for Katas. The bunkai includes anything from a block and a kick to arm manipulation, joint lock and then projection. There's tons of cool stuff if you look at the Bunkai. Goju's distancing is close range fighting and they also teach you to take hits by conditioning body and mind. If you've seen Goju and Uechi people do Sanchin while getting checked for posture, breathing and tension, you'll know what I'm talking about. Goju is all about relaxation and tensing up in the right moment. When I think Goju I think of a whip, compared to Shotokan which was more of a bat. For my particular taste, Uechi and Goju would be S tier. Shotokan, Shorin and Kudo A tier. By the way, Shorin is the Okinawan roots version of Shotokan. Shito, Wado, Kempo and Kyokushin would be B. Sport Karate C. Isshin and Kenpo D. Ameridote would probably be XXX and master Ken would approve.

I’m just here to play devil’s advocate In UFC 1 Gerard Gordeau a Kyokushin Karate guy to 2nd/runner up only to Royce. UFC 3 Harold Howard a Gōjū-ryū Karate guy took 2nd place runner up. Early UFC’s are a great marking point for effectiveness of pure styles (as close as you can get) Almost of of the karate base guys did well until they met Royce or a wrestler. Pat Smith a kenpo BB won the Sabaki Tournament (The most popular kyokushin style tournament in the USA at the time) at Heavyweight before he fought in the UFC. Sport Karate has guys like Raymond Dainels and Michael Venom Page who fought world class competition in kickboxing and mma

I like the videos in between. It gives us an idea of what they look like.

I do Kenpo under Bob White who was Ed Parker’s senior Black Belt when he died. He is in his 70s and still going strong in Costa Mesa CA. He was on the US black belt team in the early 70s and they went undefeated including against the Chuck Norris team.The school has multiple sport karate fighters teaching there for the last 30 years. They teach the techniques and kata (forms) with heavy emphasis on technique. They also run sparring and sparring drills most classes. I’m sure there are McDojos out there. I’ve been in multiple martial arts and in the military and this is pretty legit IMHO. Love your channel! Keep it up!

It was definitely clear listening to you that you don't have any experience with Isshinryu. I practiced it for a number of years back in the 1980s-90s. It is a combat focused style with the majority of US masters having learned it from the founder in Okinawa as US marines during the Korean and Vietnam war periods. I currently practice and teach Tang Soo Do and find myself relying on Isshinryu bunkai in many cases to explain forms still. This was an entertaining video to watch in any case.

I am a practitioner of Shotokan Karate and Japanese Ju-jitsu. And I find both styles to be excellent for self defense! For me personally I study more for the philosophies and being a kind person! This was a fun and excellent video I have also started my journey into Iaido I think I spelt that right and it it truly beautiful. Great video sending love and peace!

It was very entertaining. Thank you. One word about Kyokushin. Like any style of karate, it has many versions and schools, as you probably know. What I would like to add about Kyokushin is that Kyokushin itself has been changing for several years and the techniques allowed during the competition now, are undercuts and brought down to the ground floor. In addition, I attended the dojo myself, where, apart from sports fighting, we learned to fight without competition rules as well as self-defense. Although less time is spent on it. Osu

I want to see Master Ken and Sensei Lawrence square up. Than we can see who goes in the “E” Tier for entertainment.

Hey guys, interesting discussion. As a first dan in Hawaiian Kenpo, I just wanted to clarify a few things. 1. There is fundamentally no difference between kenpo or Kempo (unless you’re talking about Shorinji Kenpo which is very different to what most people refer to as kenpo since that has a Japanese lineage). The difference in the spelling is simply how the kanji is translated - both the N or M are correct. That’s it. 2. All the Hawaiian Kenpo/Kempo styles claim the same lineage. Kenpo/kempo didn’t originate with Ed Parker as you stated. It started with James Mitose. It continued with his student William Chow, then it splintered from there. This all happened in Hawaii, hence the term Hawaiian kenpo. Mitose called his art Kenpo Juijitsu and later Kosho Ryu Kenpo. Chow called his art Kenpo Karate then later Kara Ho Kenpo. One of Chow’s students was Ed Parker who then brought Chow’s art to the mainland and then took it his own direction. His student, Jeff Speakman, added a lot of ground fighting to modernize it creating Kenpo 5.0. Another of Chow’s students was Adriano Emperado who went on to develop Kajukenbo, a very similar style to Hawaiian Kenpo. Another of Chow’s teachers, Ron Alo, founded my style, Alo Kenpo. Another of Chow’s students went on to teach John Hackleman of “The Pit” Hawaiian Kempo. Hackleman famously coached Chuck Liddel who has rank in his Hawaiian Kempo. Hackleman does state that he wanted to differentiate his version of Kempo by spelling it with the M. He states that his version is more hardcore. He disdains kata, and focusses more on conditioning. Whatever. All I’m saying is that there is no real distinction between Kenpo and Kempo although just like any style, the quality of what you get will range from school to school. In any case, I'd just combine them and would place them at a B level, although I'm still not sure how sport karate would be superior since Kenpo/kenpo has tons of Filipino escrima embedded in the curriculum and we train with sticks and knives a lot, not to mention all of the traditional Okinawan Kobudo weapons as well. Just food for thought. As always, I enjoy your vids. Oss!

Enjoyed the analysis and how you discussed the different styles. Agree with you that Kyokushin's "weakness" lies in the fact that when we (most of us) practice dojo-fight (kumite), then our sparring is very influenced by our competition rules, where bare-knuckled face-punches are banned for good reason. I looked amongst the comments, and may have overlooked it, but could not find anyone mentioning that not long before he passed away, Sosai Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin, started to talk about the Kyokushin Genesis; the "New" Kyokushin. Certainly many Kyokushin-practitioners now have started questioning how the art has been thought the past 30-40 years. The fact that 75% of all the techniques shown in Masutatsu Oyama's three major books; "What is Karate", "This is Karate" and "Advanced Karate" is illegal according to our competition rules, should tell you something. Sosai Oyama devoted a whole chapter in This is Karate to Ne-Waza (ground fighting techniques). And when you start analyzing the kata and kihon, it is full of locks and throws. Traditional Kyokushin is "MMA" as good as any. I recommend checking out Shihan Cameron Quinn, or Shihan Terry Birkett (there are many-many others also), and their approach to the art. In my opinion, the Kyokushin Genesis is certainly a wave in it's mere beginning, and it will be exiting to follow it as it grows.

I studied isshinryu for over 20 years I love it the school I went to did alot of self defense techniques during class. I still can't make a fist without the thumb on top after doing it since 1999

I'm not a big Karate guy but I like Wado and Goju at the moment. I think Wado should be a little higher because it has so much grappling but good vid.

I find it interesting that Isshinryu got ranked below both Goju and Shorin , respectively , when Isshin itself is largely a combination of both Goju and Shorin , as Sensei Shimabuku thought to be the best aspects.

As a black belt in Isshinryu, I can confidently say, we *do* spar.

The isshinryu gym i went to was ran by a guy who studied directly from the soldiers who brought it back from okinawa in the war... and it was hard core. We sparred nearly full contact, face hits were encouraged, we studied grappling, and applying techniques in self-defense situations, bunkai and weapons... and our tournaments were open to all styles.. the ones i were in had tae kwan do guys, and kung fu.,. etc.. not just isshinryu.

Awesome video, do a ranking tier on Korean arts, Taekwondo, Taekkyon, Hapkido, Tukong Moosul, Tang Soo Do, Mu Do Kwan, Hwa Rang Do, kook sul won

Based on the information you all have, I'm not surprised you would rank Isshinryu that low but I would love to have a deeper discussion with you all on the style. My dojo in particular does lots of full contact sparring, grappling, and take downs on top of the katas. I will admit though a lot of Isshinryu schools don't it's very inconsistent.

As a Kudo fighter, I'm satisfied with this tier list. Cobra Kai is in my heart though lol OSS

To be clear, the photo shown during the Goju Ryu segment representing "conditioning" is actually Uechi-Ryu Master Shinyu Gushi (deceased). He was a well respected expert in Kobudo as well as Uechi-Ryu karate.

Master Ken is prolly gonna re-re-stomp the groin for this 1

Have you ever heard of enshin karate? They hold a tournament called sabaki challenge every year in Denver and it looks like kyokushin and judo

Insightful video! Would you happen to know what style of karate the Young Champions organization teaches/used to teach (in the 90s)?

Shorin and goju were combined to create Ishinryu. The founder is Tatsuo Shimabuku.

I believe that Cobra Kai practices Tang Soo Do, since Pat Johnson was the fight choreographer for original The Karate Kid. But what style did DC Comic's The Karate Kid practice?

Omg to of the best karate practitioners on KZfaq all we need is Sweet T and Wonderboy and this is for the history books!😱

Although my primary martial art has been Choy Li Fut for over half a century, I also spent some time with Bob Yarnell learning Shorin Ryu. Took a little Isshin, Taekwando, Shotokan, and Jeet Kun Do. I found Shorin and Isshin to be very effective for Karate. I haven't even heard of many of the styles you mentioned, but back in the day Bob Yarnell was beating most other styles with Shorin. Back when I was young and hanging out with Bob at his store and school I got to observe many of the Karate legends in person. Chuck Norris, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, and Jim Kelly. Those were the glory days of martial arts. In summation I would have ranked Shorin higher.

Great video though, I would have added a couple of the major Kyokushin offshoots and obscure styles if you were ranking Karate styles based on combat effectiveness. - *Ashihara* and *Enshin* : took the sabaki concept from wado-ryu kata and jujutsu. Plus, the addition of throws and takedowns from judo and jujutsu. No face punching in regular training but I think these styles warrant being separated from kyokushin because are both major forms of *“kenka karate”* (brawling karate) that diverge from Kyokushin in technique curriculum and philosophy... where as styles such as *World Oyama Karate* and *Gwon Gyokdo* / *GongKwon Yusul* , taekwondo and kyokushin hybrids (GongKwon Yusul later evolved into a Korean version of Kudo: MMA with a belt system) - are/were practically identical to *Kyokushin* but with slightly more spinning kicks and aerial techniques sprinkled in here and there. *Seidokaikan* / *Shin Karate* : Some people , aka the purist people who argue this also consider Kudo / Daido kudo as “too divergent” from karate, may argue that: 1) Shin Karate is more of a separate competition format that fuses boxing and full contact karate to try and replicate mejiro karate and “danish striking”. 2) seidokaikan is too much of a fusion art to be considered karate due to adding Boxing, Muay Thai and Lethwei. In my experience, Seidokaikan training starts off in traditional bare knuckle knockdown format, however, after reaching 3rd kyu: “shinken shobu” sparring occurs more frequently - full contact sparring with face shots and boxing gloves. A curriculum involving standing clinch work, bolo punch, spinning elbow and backfist, kickboxing-esque combinations and jumping knee strikes were taught alongside more traditional techniques. After the arrest of master Ishii for tax evasion and accusations of yakuza ties (training yakuza bodyguards, doing business with them) seidokaikan imploded. The majority of the international seidokaikan dojos either shut down, joined a Kyokushin faction or transitioned into Muay Thai and joined the World Thai Boxing association. It’s still exists today in Japan but it’s not what it once was. _(I trained seidokaikan under Arne Soldwedel before he left the martial arts to become a prosecutor in Alaska. I later transitioned to World Oyama Karate and then later again to Muay Thai)_ I consider shin karate and seidokaikan to be the same thing or at least should be grouped together, because I was told that shin karate and k2 arose from seidokaikan and that seidokaikan competes in shin karate events. (however, if I’m wrong I have no problem being told otherwise and educated! This is obviously secondhand information). *Byakuren Kaikan* : a full contact karate style with no _direct_ lineage to Kyokushin. Instead, it’s creator, Sugihara Masayasu was a master of shorinji kempo (and, if I remember correctly, Sugihara also had a training stint in traditional shaolin quan as well because he was a direct student of Doshin So and a member of the “shorinji byakuren bodyguards”). Sugihara was a 6th dan in shorinji kempo but was excommunicated for competing in a knockdown karate tournament and kenka karate brawling. Thus, he founded byakuren kaikan and shorinji kempo practitioners followed him to become “foundational members”. An Enshin practitioner once told me that the throws and jointlocks (juho) are “very Chinese” due to a foundational member, who had joined Sugihara, having studied chinese eagle claw and qinna. Byakuren has more throws than Kyokushin and Seidokaikan, since Kyokushin and seidokaikan only allow for ashiwaza (ie de ashi barai footsweep) but less throws than ashihara and enshin karate who utilize arm and hip throws as well. *Kansui-ryu* : a full contact style lumped in with Kyokushin, Seidokaikan and other kenka karate styles but heavily associated with japanese shoot wrestlers and the pro wrestling industry. Like byakuren there is no direct lineage between Kyokushin and Kansui-ryu. It is a collaboration between professional wrestler Antonio Inoki and Shōrin-ryu master Yukio Mizutani, who are real life bestfriends. My pen pal in Japan crosstrains between kansui-ryu and hidetaka aso’s Submission Arts Wrestling shoot wrestling style. He was first introduced to Kansui-ryu in a pro wrestling dojo called DDT and he continued training kansui ryu after leaving pro wrestling to learn shoot wrestling / catch wrestling for competitive grappling. however, I don’t know if he means they (shoot wrestling and kansui) compliment eachother in that they compliment each others weaknesses or if kansui has transition techniques such as takedowns and submissions directly in the curriculum. I have not spoken to nor written my penpal since the pandemic began (I really should change that) and due to lack of information online, I cannot research it myself. Thus, the relationship between kansui and shoot wrestling/catch wrestling could be a Brazilian jujitsu and Judo situation: where they are separate arts who have crossover techniques due to parentage, thus learning both arts helps you become better at both arts or if this is a Piguaquan-Bajiquan situation where both arts are totally separate arts but learned simultaneously. -- Keep up the great work, I love your videos and sorry for the massive reply!

I came into Karate through Isshinryu Karate, even got my 4th degree black belt in it. And I totally agree with it's placement lol. Honestly, once I got into channels like the one you do it turned my world upside down. Channels like Jesse Enkamp and Hard2Hurt have really got me going in a better direction for sure. Great work, Sensei Seth and Jesse Enkamp!

yes i agree. most "traditional" styles need a mix to make them well rounded.

I studied isshinryu for 9 years. It is a very disciplined fighting style that taught me everything I know about self defense and inner personal strength. Sadly I stopped at the last belt before black. I wish to go back one day and achieve the ran of sho Dan.

Love the insight and analysis of each karate style from both of Sensei Seth and Sensei Jesse.

Fun fact, Almost all Karate Combat fighters are actually sport karate fighters too.

Go ju ryu black belt here! I trained in a very traditional dojo, we did like everything ground, takedows and mostly striking. Also we did a lot of kata and bunkai. Despite that i had a lot of problems in my transition to kickboxing because of the lack of competition. I belive that for A and S class full contact competition should be mandatory

The ultimate collab

Not being familiar with karate I found this an interesting video along with your other ranking/comparing videos. Is it possible that you could do one for different styles of Japanese ju-jitsu/jujutsu by any chance?

Isshin should be atleast a B to be honest, It focused a lot on defense and has a lot of background story and pretty useful in situations.

I'm Shotokan black belt and about stop after hit the oponent is something we do intentionally in shiai kumite (sport fight) but we train in jiyu kumite (free sparring) combinations and continous techniques focused in self defense, even some ground game. But the most important aspect of our style is that our training is focused to develop power to "kill" a opponent with a single blow, the "Todome Waza", is the perfect strike, that cleanest and powerfull strike, the claimed "one punch knockout". But to do that is not just a matter of power, but also precision and specially timing. Lyoto Machida applied this perfectly in the UFC. Osu! Very fun video!

As a former humble student of Shorin Ryu, who both witnessed naysayers off the Street get bloodied in and out of the Dojo and whose also quieted a few fools who crossed the line. I say we back or precision katas up with bone breaking head to toe strikes, ippon throws, sweeps and stomps! We train our mind, body, and spirit as iron Karatekas...

OSU ! I started training under Tadashi Nakamura and Nobuyuki Kishi ( uchi deshi of Mas Oyama ) in 1976. Back then Kaicho Nakamura had just resigned as Chief Instructor of kyokushin and Started Seido Juku. After some time Shihan Kishi returned to Kyokushin in NYC. His classes were long and tough all ended with a long Kumite session. Sosai Oyama was a Yon Dan in Judo, Shotokan, Goju Ryu so in fact Kyokushin is a combination of all. we used many judo throws and rolls back then for take downs, you are correct in saying that grappling is not a part of most Kyokushin Dojo's. As history of Kyokushin states the early kumite had face and groin strikes. GSP - Bas Rutten - Andy Hug ( watch his K1 matches - K1 was started by a Kyokushin Group) to name just a few may differ from the rating given. Thank You !

Tough job guys! I've practiced Shotokan for 30 years and I actually think you did a great job! In my experience, Shotokan is a tough, linear style and when practiced properly -- very effective. The downside I've found with Shotokan is that there is often a lack of mobility until you reach higher levels -- and even then, not enough is some cases. I was really surprised one day when I went to work out with some sport karate practitioners and their mobility was outstanding. They may lack the big power of traditional Shotokan but when you only need 75% to knock your opponent out, it doesn't matter. I would take the mobility and a bit less power. In terms of the grappling and take down - Jessie is right on that it's not a focus. Occasionally we do it but not to any extent. The other issue I found with Shotokan is that it takes too long to be effective at Kumite (fighting) - It's like a university degree in the sense that it doesn't really become useful until you are graduating. This is due to the extensive focus on repetition, perfection of technique and the staged learning process. The end result is intended to produce explosive speed and power. Bottom line is that a properly trained Shotokan black belt with the required years of hard work will be a tough customer.

Interesting, I live in Northern Japan and practice Isshin and it is far closer to your description of Kyokushin than your description of Isshin. We do a lot of kumite, in fact most of our training is conditioning, technique practice against pads, and kumite. In nearly a year we have rarely practiced kata.

What karate style do yall train? Love the vids btw:)

Hey sensei Seth, What is your opinion on traditional Okinawan kenpo karate? I know you mentioned it here but still is it effective enough?

What a hard topic. Respects for doing this. I agreed with 70% of it but that's me. Kyokushin is definitely A. Punches to the face aren't allowed in tournaments but they are used in the Dojo. Ashihara Karate and Enshin weren't there. Watch "Sabaki Challenge". Sport Karate is definitely a C points is a D. As its not preparation for your criteria. Wado, Shotokan and Shito should all be D as their Sparring is the Sanbomne Kumite. Points is bad. Kudo is awesome

Damn, doin isshinryu dirty, but I do agree. That style all depends on the teacher tbh

Hey, Sensi Seth, Im a new subscriber. I trained in my younger years. Im in my 50s now. Im from San Jose. The "Get jumped Nation" lol hopefully thats changed. Love your Program. I dont get a chance too laugh much. Am very disabled and trying too get back in tune. Thanks. Great material Alexander J

@Sensei Seth and Jesse Enkamp, glad I subscribed to both your channels.

Fun fact, Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama was Both Goju and Shotokan Black Belt. Kyokushin dojos teaches kata and bunkai too. And practices with head punches. Only during bare knuckle dojo fights/grading fights/ kyokushin rule tourneys face punches are not allowed.

When I was practicing Uechi-ryu as a kid we did do grappling in my dojo

I am currently doing Isshin-Ryu here in the US (Knoxville, Tennessee area), so there is a lot of history with it here. We frequently do Kumite (Sparring for those that don't speak the language). It is light to moderate contact, much like I did in Tae-Kwon-Do years ago.

I did Isshin Ryu briefly while in highschool. Didn't realize how rare it was at the time.

As I scroll through the comments, I am surprised to see so few people discussing Uechi. I have been practicing this style since I was eight years old (I am now 22) and I think that Seth and Jessie got most of what they said about the style correct. However, they missed several critical points in my opinion. First, Uechi focuses heavily on a concept called pangainoon (the style was originally called this) which means half-hard half-soft in English. Through this concept, we focus on hardening our bodies while also keeping ourselves loose in order to move faster which brings up another point I want to address. Conditioning is one of the focal points of Uechi and in my opinion is one of the biggest benefits of the style as a whole. It improves your bone/muscle density and as a result, your body is able to take a lot more hits without being affected. Many practitioners who have conditioned their bodies for decades are so hard that if you hit them it will hurt even as an experienced person practicing martial arts. Lastly, I want to discuss the the flow of power of the body. As I have learned from my practitioners, all power is derived from the ground and the analogy they like to use is that you are a tree and the roots are your feet. However, in order to make the most of your root and generate the most power, you have to be able to move the rest of your body in order to exude the power generated through the exit points being the knuckles, toes, fingers, etc (the soft half of pangainoon). Therefore, Uechi shows you how to channel your energy in a effective way and I believe that it can be very lethal in any sort of application especially when sparring taking the way the need for takedown and grappling techniques (even though they are present in the style). In conclusion, Uechi is a practical karate style that never really gets old because there is always something to work on. For three years, Kanbun Uechi was only allowed to work the foundational kata Sanchin before he was allowed to learn the rest of pangainoon. If you want to learn more about the history of Uechi, here is a link to more information - www.zenquestmac.com/uploads/2/5/6/4/25641098/historyofkarate.pdf

Man I do not think Kudo is S tier...but aight. Many Kyokushin associations are now adopting strikes to the face (with the kudo head gear) in general kumite. Also, Kyokushin has all of the kata from Shotokan and many from Uechi Ryu as well, with some very complex forms exceeding 50+ movements. Elbow strikes ARE allowed in kyokushin kumite as well as sweeps, and the earliest kata bunkai's include many judo sweeps and throws! Not saying your ranking is incorrect, but there's some missing information. Love the vids bro!

Like this list because I learn some things from it. For example that one can train Kata not for the fight aspect or application of it in real fight (bunkai) but "merely" to develop agility, tempo, flexibility, mobility, stances and transitions, strong muscles, correct breathing, correct techniques, etcetera. And yes, it is not the school that is important but how serious one trains all that matters. A kick is a kick, a punch is a punch. The vertical fist punch is also an eye opener for me, I rather execute a slightly slant angle of my fist to reflect the natural biomechanics of the arm to the anatomy of the shoulder, elbow and wrist joint. Good point.

Hello guys great work on the tier list but i have to ask where is taido ?

I'm a taekwondo practitioner myself but I grew up on kajukenbo basically hawaiian street karate

Great to see it being discussed as i rarely see it. The art is actually named Daido Juku and the sport is named Kudo. Somethings that you may not know about Kudo: * Elbows to head and Headbutts are allowed * Groin kicks allowed under special circumstances (if there is a specific weight (PI) difference). Have rarely seen a bout where those conditions were fulfilled. I believe its there just to make people practice it and consider it as it is part of a real fight. * All joint locks that go with the natural axis of a joint is allowed (arm bar, shoulder locks like kimura and americana, straight foot lock/achilles tendon heel, etc). Locks like heel hooks, etc are not. Gi and No Gi chokes are allowed. * In the sport, you get only 30 seconds ground time before having to stand up. And can go only twice to ground in a normal bout. This forces you to use your Judo/wrestling to try and achieve the most optimum ground position before going there. It is also partly for publicity (as spectators prefer flashy standup more) and the fact that extended ground time is unrealistic for unpredictable street situations. * You get points for heavy strikes that flinch/effect the opponent (that give a clear knock back). You also get points for clear throws specifically those that could have done damage at a hard surface. Ground and pound on front side of body or head from top is not allowed but can get points for clear no-contact punches (we call it Kime) from mount. * To me the point system is what makes the game so exciting. Gives equal space for all disciplines. I've seen people with pure Judo and Taekwondo backgrounds having a go at each other. Both were equally matched under the point system. Regards from a life long practitioner of the sport in Maldives (ps. got you covered if ur dropping by for a holiday).

My cousin is a isshin Ryu master one of the highest ranking in the USA. I’m a Tang Soo Do stylist. I’ve trained with some very good masters but he is one of the best I’ve trained with!

Does anyone know what Tetsushin-ryū Kempo is, specifically? It’s what Stephen Thompson does. Is that what Sensei Seth also does? The only reference I can find to it is in connection to Wonderboy.

I'm kudo practitioner and i was really surprised when i saw kudo was involved and even rated that high, even though it's not that popular outside Japan, Russia, Ukraine and some middle East countries. I'm glad that my fav style is getting populized in the West.

Fair analysis. I'm still glad Shotokan ended up in B 😂

Shorin Ryu should be higher tbh. And 1 thing I can say about our sparring is while our defense is quick, streamlined, and practical, it's our high stances on the balls of our feet with the goal of quick precision using a good combination of everything but not as many finger locks but we do grapples but like quick sweeps, throws, hand, and arm grapples bc it's so close range based. That and I'd say pure shorin ryu (which I did not practice, my branch was a hybrid between traditional shorin ryu and a splash of goju ryu) was more spiritual.

I was in Bushido classes, it focused a lot on form and kata, but we did spar every few days. It was honestly just great for my reflexes and mobility, which helped with the other martial arts I was in 😂

Rip sensei seth, he's damned no matter where he puts what style

I like how the karatekas on youtube are connected to eachother

I had to do a bunch of pushups on my knuckles to see if I remember how I usually did them. I think I do fully rotated (horizontal), but vertical works fine too. Same with punches, both work (also depends on distance tbh). I feel like styles can vary a bit depending on dojo, just based on how instructors emphasize different aspects of training. You might see a bit more judo techniques sprinkled into the curriculum (or aikido, BJJ, etc). I used to wrestle and always love it when we did mat-work (always wanted more tbh). 🤘

nice episode you are both legends

Kudos to both practitioners for their rankings. I would say that Enkamp Shinshii/Sensei has a bit more of an in-depth experiential base behind his assessments, but it’s good to hear a solid martial artist like Sensei Seth offer up his perspectives. I’m commenting on this much later in the process, so I don’t know if I’ll receive any feedback on my takes concerning the rankings, but here goes... Being a Nidan in Matsumura Seito (Orthodox) Karatejutsu who began his karate journey in Shorin Ryu Shorinkan (Kobayashi) Okinawan Karate-do in my teens, with prior training in Judo and Boxing I’d like to add another angle in defense of Shorin Ryu since I feel like Jesse might have deferred a bit when Seth’ decided to place Shorin Ryu in the “C”” category. Jesse trained in Okinawa after being well-versed in (Japanese?) Shito Ryu and the world of sport karate. What he may have learned while training in Okinawa was that about 80% of all karate styles and it’s cousins in Korea TKD and TSD are derivative of Shuri Te specifically Shorin Ryu. Same can be said for Shotokan and Kyokushin. That is a generalized statement and using a blanket term like “Shorin Ryu” of which there are several schools of thought (Shobayashi, Chubu, Kobayashi, Matsubayashi, Matsumura Seito Kenpo, Matsumura Seito Karate-do/jutsu, Kenshinkan, etc.) might not suffice for the nuance of each, but works to get the Shorin Ryu progenitor point across. Food for thought to all karate sensei and practitioners out there. You have to understand where you came from to know where you’re going. Opinions are only as good as they’re informed. That said, when I trained Shorinkan we sparred quite heavily. We also included kobudo, hojo undo, one-step sparring, two-step sparring, bunkai,, kihon, modern conditioning, intense stretching, modern kickboxing bag and focus mitt training and self defense. In fact with the exception of Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu which is real world, and self preservation based (that is a deeper term than the way it may read) most Shorin Ryu schools practice limited and some full contact sparring, barring strikes to the head and face outside of backfists and ridge hands. Matsumura Seito Kenpo (Yuichi Kuda O’Shinshii’s system) is actually known for their full contact bogu gear sparring. Shotokan is a nice Japanese system. It is thought of on Okinawa and amongst some Uchinanchu as Gichin Funakoshi’s version of the Shorin Ryu he taught in Okinawan Middle School. This is why the stances are deeper, wider, the blocks more exaggerated, the loss of some circular movement, the lack of change body (tai sabaki), the emphasis on meeting force with force, very linear forward and back movements, the absence of kobudo and Ryukyuan hojo undo, the deletion of many of the Ti or Tuite or even tegumi grappling concepts. So I guess my point is if you’re going to give Uechi Ryu/Pangai Noon an “A” and Shotokan, Goju, Kyokushinkai and “Kenpo” “B’s” , knowing that the history of Shorin Ryu is the history of the first real kickboxers in Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace both Shorin practitioners, plus the bad assness of Jim Kelly - Rest In Power (a Matsubayashi Ryu yudansha), then why wouldn’t Shorin Ryu be a “B” or an “A?” I guess you could answer, “because this is our vid and not yours web warrior!” Peace.

We all like KAAA-RAAA-TEEE

First of all ur vids are hella entrataing, second, u have one of the coolest intro in all youtube, that beat is fire too🔥😂💯

I study TKD under Masters John Worley and Larry Carnahan and recently started studying Shorin-ryu. Couldn't help but notice you had the Diamond Nationals in your video! I'm from Minnesota so that was fun to see! I love both traditional and sports karate and the merits of each. I love the analysis in here and was a pleasure to watch.