@NearlyNuked It does not work this way with liquefied gases like butane or propane. If you charge your cartridge half way, the level of liquefied propane or butane will be lower but the vapours above will still exert the same pressure equal to the value of vapour pressure of given gas. The same way as the pressure of water vapour in the bottle is the same doesn’t matter if it is filled half way or to one quarter. Thats why you can not use pressure meter to see how much gas left in your cartridge. Instead, weighting is better method.

@@SpokoSpoko there is written on the canister: Propane fuel...

@@attilavicen1579 Read the whole label and check the composition of the gas. It might say “propane” as a commercial name but in small aluminum cans it is always a mix of propane with butane or isobutane.

@@SpokoSpoko can i refill these camping gas canisters(4 season ones) with lighter refiller? What 60% butane and 40% propane? You know the ones you can refill the lighters with. Can i put that into a quality camping canister? Some have 4 season ability what means you can use them in the winter, couse there is more propane in them. So they must be stronger a bit. Thanks for the anwer.

@@attilavicen1579 I would not put any more propane than it is written on the can, but if that lighter refill has less or equal percentage you can use it. Myself I tried to load my cartridges from two sources, butane from small cheap refills and propane from the large BBQ tank. However I found it too much hassle. The savings is small and not worth it. Unless you camp a lot and use a lot of those cartridges.

Thanks John

The reason is the butane is not sold in big tanks. Only propane. But you are right regarding the pressure 32 psi vs 320 psi. In my opinion it is risky operation because the cartridge might be not strong enough, especially during hot weather.

@@SpokoSpoko I get same influx of flames from filling to 1LB propane tank but once tank is warmed up then pressure normalizes it. I think something to do with propane gas mixed with air from big tank. without a regulator, tank needs to be warmed up to build pressure. Your video helps me as I was thinking about refilling same tank for my backpacking. 1LB steel tank is too heavy and I need propane for cold weather.

Both propane and butane pressure is dependent on temperature. At room temp propane's about 145psi, it doesn't get to 320psi till it hits 130f. Both disposable Propane and propane/Butane mix cylinders have safety valves or a Rupture Disc that will vent tank before they could reach burst pressure.....But I agree it makes more sense to get the adapter to refill with disposable butane cans. If you really wanna use straight propane you can get an adaptor to use 1lb disposable propane tanks with your stove.....Many stoves these days even come with the adaptor.

only when warm..... just fill it less

@@escapetherace1943 just fill it less? You do resize that it's all about vapor pressure, right? As long as there is any liquid in the canister the pressure will be the same for any given temp. Even a small amount when exposed to summer Temps could easily explode the canister. Look at any gas pressure temp chart, where do they indicate the volume of gas? They dont. If you are going to refill these, use butane only. You are really risking it with lpg or propane.

@@KevinSmith-os5yz even a small amount....... unlikely mate. The canisters are not much thinner than ones meant for propane, weigh one empty, and the canisters typically hold a blended iso containing up to 20 percent propane anyway. The canister is already rated to contain butane in gaseous form, the pressure differences aren't "that much" comparitively. If you fill them with 70 percent propane and leave some dead space it's fine

@@escapetherace1943 I looked up dot specs for a primus canister I ihave, specs say minimum bursting pressure is 240psi, and canister should never exceed 125psi at 130f. Granted they do use a mix of propane and butane, but the low amounts of propane keep things under that 125psi, barely. However if you are filling with pure propane, you are at 200psi at 110F with any amount of propane, as long as you still have some in liquid form, whether it's almost empty or full. Now bring that up to 130f and you could be on the high side of 240psi. Granted that's minimum burst pressure, but I'd sure like to have some margin of error in my favor. Now I do refill mine, but I use the cheap pure butane available at most grocery stores. Nut I wouldn't take the chance with pure propane, too close to the edge for me,he he. I don't have cold as an issue where I live.

@@KevinSmith-os5yz 200 psi at 'any amount' of propane I doubt it, then the iso-propane mixture would also be at the same pressure. Granted subjecting it even close to 100 will almost never happen where I am

Cheers

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks Ian

so just fill 3/4 capacity with propane and I should be good, no?

They must add the "smell" to propane. It will make for some build-up in the orifice. Propane torches need to be cleaned regularly. No big deal. Butane will turn into a gas at a lower temp than propane. When it's cold, propane losses pressure, the butane has a lower boiling point, so it keeps the pressure up in a cold tank, or a cold morning/evening. Yes, dangerous. So are most things. 😀 Be smart, use safe practices, triple check yourself. Learn all you can. GET RID OF ANY CANISTERS WITH MECHANICAL PROPLEMS OR DAMAGE. It's not worth it to trust a disposable canister to save a few bucks. Being OK with a good one, that's one thing, one that has any problems, not worth it. My 2 cents worth..... Have fun.

@@escapetherace1943 as long as there are liquefied gas inside the cylinder, it is the overall mixture that matters kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oMidgsZ5lsyqe6c.html

@@adamdavis5961 at std pressure: butane boils near 0C, propane at -42C as a result, at std pressure, -18C: propane exhibit as a gas, butane is a liquid

Still using this three years later and working well.

Thanks

I didn't have to do anything, it just worked. Are you nipping it up nice and tight?

Yeah, the one they sent me from China wasn't tapered to match the tanks we use in the US. I took theirs off and put a spare fitting on it, now it's all good.

Be aware that propane is less dense than butane, less weight will still take up more room ,this can end badly ! the pressure in the can is the result of temperature not fill quantity, PROVIDING THERE IS A GAS POCKET ABOVE THE LIQUID LEVEL The pressure in a can off 100% propane is the same at 15 deg c as butane with 30% propane at 100 deg c , result HOT SUN=( BANG !)

@@septicwhelk3654 that last part was really confusing to read

@@tradertom4843 100% propane at 15.6C => 93 psig 30% propane, 70% butane mix at 110F (43.3C) => 93 psig www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.html#butane_vapor_pressure_absolute

I go through a lot of these camping cans firing up my model steam boilers to run my steam engines.

petrol stoves are the key definition of not "ultralight" even the mini ones when empty weigh like 2 pounds, it's not feasible for backpacking for camping though hell yes, i have 2

@@escapetherace1943 this video was about steam engines though.

Only u need to "PUMP UP THE JAAAM! PUMP IT UP... " hhahaha

I've seen people put them in the freezer, I think the theory behind that is that it fills more or easier? And yes I did push something into the valve to purge the can.

From Forrest Classics in the UK

You do realize thats an isobutane can? So that means is a blend of propane and butane........ think about that. Initial charge starts with butane at factory and then has propane added to aid in low temp ignition....... aligator mouth humming bird butt

@@robertulmer5886 - so what’s the your point? I am saying filling with propane exclusively is not a good idea and dangerous.

@@condor5635 your kidding right? 30% of these canisters are filled with propane from the factory. Meaning same pressure thats in that 20lb bottle.............. if properly weighed its safe. Been doing it for years i personally use a regulator. Plus hes using a vinyl tubing not exactly high pressure bud. If the pressure was really that great the little tubing would have given us a show dont you think?

@@robertulmer5886 - you obviously think you know what you’re talking about but you actually don’t. Just because there’s 30% propane in one of those canisters doesn’t mean that it obtains the same pressure as a 20 pound tank at the same temperature. To quote yourself are you kidding me?

@@robertulmer5886 just look at the graphs in the link below www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.html#butane_vapor_pressure_absolute tip: EN417 are spec'd 13.2 bar at 50C, when the container is new from factory below you can learn about partial pressure kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oMidgsZ5lsyqe6c.html

Still using this three years later and working well.

Thanks

Hi .....here's the link - www.ebay.com.au/itm/1X-Propane-Refill-Adapter-LP-Gas-Flat-Cylinder-Tank-Coupler-Inflatable-Valve/133636839323?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1f1d60579b:g:Is0AAOSwuC5f~21Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkBUIiHwYv5YgVss0WaiENzz6q7dVMFUOpCuI2uiNn5WuKYz7sGcoNYZSwN9cOHDuHzKEvsBM9LfBIZOkIGMnBghG8wqnzqUoZhCitdE%252BQFDeMm4oXyhiov3g8wwnEVcJ3NKG%252BtUWcut7BBuR8P1CcfWgXja7uLQHIZW3WoTbBNmIHSu3w%252FW6JpOigpxsljLL1Rcg4jzBcWAmDoxwJeauZymJiGAXoAGk34TsvjALgLlozZuMaS%252B2s5ia1ksaAndHzGe50wmUbjgFQkvLkJgtugaKwGHakBfWwvkg9IAfXCD3UZM2nM54xwddlTffCfYqFvOxohgiVKNznRTKfvp0U6Vv9xmPaGu4ABXdeeqVYLkkpHLBX4ZAusy7dnSYN%252B%252B%252FIGf%252Beam3kxX9i8SWv832mabGnoXx8Zyash7vWmObUz10xtVdiVPKP%252FyA0voNwpqZ3lDSdSAO%252BmVh6O8jaIRc%252FTwFeRoBbq8bvpYpnK1s%252FslNfezk2cMtovn1N9ift5euVo8DAE3Cy9BhbwfP3vrCKylLbH8RD5w4xaL1nSo56TqUbFp%252F1WiXGEaOnUuKqVP%252BDQukJm7Hisq736IOZbReFXBBx%252BXc6T9V4hgCJL%252Fqxs7%252BnWZ%252B7w8fCQfmtJT2W40nX%252BUCrT9wlZZEykvUMVTLA0tmnm063o9kwR9XmcdB0XPD5LyhqTfwPFAaGihK1W6j04tr3%252BpU1ActUB8IZCYavwRuIX1Y%252BuyurQBs5%252FPG1tbNN82sthlqnkWpb8OFlf25tFj0hTyhuehAy98tFMby16dMbDBWtMRSOaC7ycWwDRGY%253D%7Ccksum%3A133636839323698c99372e6d4bdfb7231a5f6686d758%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524&frcectupt=true

For camping? How many times u canmping in one week? If u are camping 1 or 2 days, it's not worth to do this, i used to camp twice in a week in past, and i used only one that little can for 2 months or more, i used that for boiling water 4 tea, for 2-3 persons, 2-3 times 4 one day! In my country (Bosnia and Herzegowina) that can cost about $1 and definitely not worth to refill that, i guess u don't need too.

@@mare4323 I use them for my boilers in my model steam hobby and can use 2-3 a day everyday of the year.

@@BlueHeelersSteamEngines-Jim I know YOU don't use these for camping, my comment is for "risto", not 4 you!

Thanks

I use them for my boilers in my model steam hobby and can use 2-3 a day everyday of the year.

They are on eBay Still using this three years later and working well.

Its just a normal international male to BBQ female connection - Cheers Jim

Hi, the general consensus on the model steam engine forums has been that propane pressurises the cans at a too higher pressure over butane mix.

@@beardale5932 it does seem like propane generally uses more pressure, but it seems like you should be able to safely use it in this type of canister if you fill it less. I'd love to find out what kind of ratio is safe. This guy replaced 230g of butane+propane with 166g of propane, 72% by weight. What would be safe? 50%? 25%? And what effect would it have on burn time? I'm really curious, because as he mentioned, it seems like a huge cost savings.

many of these canister comes new with a mix of iso-butane and propane 70/30, 80/20 propane is 44.097g/mol; butane is 58.124g/mol en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butane en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isobutane assuming you trust your life (and others) with internet/marketing numbers, all your measuring equipment, your own calculation and are certain of source gas composition, any container/hoses/equipment used in the process (EN417 is not designed for refill, the container is not tested for repeated stress cycle, valve can rust and starts leaking and only spec up to 13.2 bar at 50C), see below link for the pressures www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.html

Still using this three years later and working well.

Still using this three years later and working well.

Yes freezing them beforehand makes big difference.

Still using this three years later and working well.