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Class Action Law Suits of both Lippert and Grand Design need to happen by everyone that owns an RV involved!!!

Paving New paths are very frustrated with them both you should contract them

I have never been more happy to still have my 2000 36’ Alfa Gold !!

If yours is 2nd hand don't bother because G.D. will deflect all the blame and so will Lippert. Good luck Tom

Grand Design and Lippert are becoming the Boeing of the RV industry. Grand Design should rename the Momentum to the 737-MAX.

We are purchasing a new trailer in April. Grand Design was just removed from our list. Thank you

Tom, time to send that travel trailer out to pasture as soon as possible. It will make someone a very nice stationary home for many years!

Yes, those cross braces are available. They were initially called Winfield stabilizers. I think they were bought out by Morryde who now sells them. But they have been around for several years. I bought mine when it was still Winfield. They work great.

Great video!! Loved it!! I think as consumers its important to know that these big behemoth fifth wheels aren't really meant for traveling from point a to b to c to d in. From point a to b is fine. As frustrating as it is to hear. They are not meant to go across the country multiple times a year no matter what the sales guy told you. I know they have wheels but when something is as large as this its more or less meant to be moved minimally. When you take something this large on rough roads for a lot of miles expect there to be issues. I.e. screws coming loose, issues with axles, issues with frame, sawdust. These campers are a ton of maintenance. If what you want to do is travel across country please consider a 32 foot fifth wheel. Not a 40+ foot. Something like this is meant to be moved maybe twice a year. Most folks I see complaining about frame failure are folks buying units that are way too big for the type of traveling they want to do. Please consider a smaller RV if what you want it for is travel. You'll save a ton of headaches You don't need the biggest, baddest and fanciest fifth wheel to have a good time camping. Use your 40 foot campers as cheaper alternatives to a cabin and park it for the season. Use it as a home away from home. Get something Under 35 overall feet to travel in. You don't need to take your whole entire house with you camping to have a good time. Trust me :)

A BedRug fan! luv em

But all trailers have frame flex but its called frame broke

I wonder if Lippert will clean their hands of the issue since there is a lot of talk that they dont endorse use of the GenY hitch system. I also use a GenY on my Reflection and I love the hitch. This frame failure issue is getting out of control unfortunately.

Open propane door and inspect all your Hyd hoses make sure don’t have leak , I had replace one that same side , guess we been lucky been full time since 2016 in 397 Momentum TH coast to coast no frame issues . Thx for video

With all these issues, I would really love to see you two in a nice new rig. I think it’s time to get back to enjoying the journey.

Many 5th wheels are having frame flex issues since most ride on Lippert manufactured frames. The big difference for us owners than have had frame flex and / or frame failure, is how the manufacture handles the issue for it's customers. I had Frame Flex occur on a keystone Montana and Keystone stepped up and covered under warranty and didn't require a NDA or try to intimidate me or ignore me. Sadly, GD issues are less about Frame flex issue, rather how they've elected handle / ignore their customers reporting frame flex.

Lippert and Grand Design are taking a PR/Reputation beating on this issue. I should add that most people say this is a GD issue since Lippert is just building what GD offers. In any case, you'd think they do something to shore the brand up, and quickly.

Hey guys, I've been seeing a lot of videos on frame flex which is probably due to owners overloading cargo areas that are not designed to carry all the batteries, tools, and other heavy stuff people concentrate in the cargo area, which overload the frame causing Frame damage. Which is the owners fault not the manufacturer. Check out Big Truck Big RV videos on this. I own a 2022 Reflection 337RLS. Good luck and love your channel.

@Pavingnewpaths is having a serious problem/delima with theirs! Can you reach out to them and help?

25 cent fix possible fix on the hydraulic jack. O ring on the upper hose fitting

Go look at Paving New Paths they are dealing with the 2nd owner bs too.

I had frame breakage and frame flex but it was the A frame of a travel trailer. Open Range when Randy Gruber had it. Fixed once and that broke. The a real fix with 2000 pounds of steel in a subframe over the axles and a longitudinal tube welded in properly into the frame flanges not the web. Welding into the web of an I beam is a no no.

We had frame flex. I would show you pictures on what it looked like but it seems I can’t post pictures. Took them 2 weeks to repair. Keystone paid for the repairs.

I know this doesn't have to do with this video, but i am wanting to know what soft start you used for the air conditioners. Thank you.

Lippert Frame Flex test redwoodrvowners.com/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/attachments/345/udflexguide.pdf

I have had the frame flex , but welding and adding steel where it is needed worked for 😳🤔 Now . The steel has gone from Boxed to I beam to now thin “c” channel and 1/2 the thickness of the last 20 yrs.

It seems your Lippert airbag extended pin box would be the prime suspect. According to Lippert engineer extended pin boxes add leverage that torques the frame beyond frame and or load specs. Your GenY PB seems so short I can’t imagine it being the culprit. Strange that Lippert would sell something that is not compatible with their frames??? Just thinking out loud, Goodluck!

What was the name of the warranty and do you really like them?

You said it. You really need two people to run this test. Also measure both inside and outside end of pin box

The Reese goosebox is the only hitch that I have read about that is approved by lippert.

Is this just a fifth wheel issue or regular trailer style issues as well.

My first thought when someone says dreaded 2 words in regards to an RV, I think "Water Intrusion". It seems this flex issue is more a 5th wheel issue than a travel trailer. I f they told me that "The warranty doesn't transfer to a second owner", I would ask "Does that mean you are saying your product is safe to go on the road at 60 mph then?"

All frames flex? I would have to disagree on that. I have to say as a European looking at these videos about 5-wheelers I'm not surprised at all that these problems occur. The amount of metalwork and metal that would have to go in to these things to make them sturdy enough to carry all that weight on the front like that on that tiny pin would be tremendous and they simply don't cost enough considering the size and all those fittings inside. We are used to tow behind trailers (caravans) where the whole frame is at the same level with as little parts as possible to make it sturdy from hitch to tail (and they get inspected before they are allowed on the European roads) I've never heard about problems like these in Europe. So no, not all frames flex.

Once one determines they have frame failure. Would they then be personally responsible for anything that may happen if they move that unit?

Grand Design blew of Paving New Paths channel folks when they called Grand Design and mentioned Frame Flex,.. they hung up on them Lol..

that pinch molding shrinks with age mine popped in the radius from shrinkage

I am not defending RV's manufactures, but most of this failures are due to uneven loads, toy haulers are design to carry weight in the garage, they are front heavy by design so that the toys in the garage will balance the trailer and transfer the weight over the trailer axles. Most of this failures are from units that travel 1000's of miles on a regular basis without any weight in the garage and excessive pin weight. This units are built light, and most people just store all of their weight in front of the trailer axles adding pin weight that its ok if stationary on a camp ground but not while traveling, proper weight distributions is KEY

Is your frame designed to be used with that pin box?

Very sorry to say you have the frame flex big time!!! Ugh!!! Class action Law suit time!!!! I feel very bad for you two! Your good people!!!

What happened to all the travelogue type videos? Haven't seen y'all do one of those in a year or more.

Live with less space and bells and whistles (like slides) and get an Oliver. The Legacy II is amazing, their customer service is awesome, and they do not sell thru dealers. So no finger pointing. Your "stick and tin" is, in essence, like pulling a stick built mobile home down the road all the time. Last I checked, most mobile home dwellers who have to move, do not move multiple times a year... year after year. I wouldn't have this type of RV if you gave it to me. I also would state the age old cliche' " You get what you pay for" but it wouldn't hold water because the prices on these seemingly fancy 5th wheels and travel trailers are outrageous. I would bet good money they aren't built any better than a $20K Coleman Lantern. Which, by the way, was way less before Covid.

It would take 6 months to get one weld done!!!! Lost bro!!❤❤

I’ve noticed that most of the frame breakage is on units that are full time RVers. Our Grand Design is only used a couple times a year. No signs so far!

Other companies have frame flex issue… just don’t hear anything about it.

It might be time to put an external hitch bracelet on your RV forget about the internals, and just do that external hitch thing

The Flex Hex / 666

Not if its when the frame breaks and GD has hung up on many if you bought nit second hand Trouble is if you weld and brace the front then the frame will fail again further back and so on as the frames were made too weak for the weight of those toy haulers to save money GD should be sued as they should have recalled these frames

My advice for everyone having this issue is to call a lawyer before you call anyone and get instructions on how to protect yourself and your wallet. This will be a big hit for all these manufacturers and there will come a time and point they will start to deny repairs based on the cost. Everyone also needs to understand that the frames on these RVs are not designed to be towed across America back and forth and that is why you are seeing these failures. You are not being told this by the manufacturers or dealers selling them because they like taking your money. They will also start to say it is the fault of being overloaded so you better get it scaled and find out. It really isn't the reason but protect yourself. Remember, these originally were designed to be towed to a spot by say a construction person and lived in for say a year or two until the project was complete and then he would move to the next project in another state. Not continuously moving all the time. For that, the frames needed to be beefed up and they weren't.

Your measurement method won't capture the flex because you're still measuring to the edge of the pin box, but not the the same point on the edge of the pin box. The way you measured it, the pin box could have moved two inches (it didn't) and you would have measured the same.

Even though your test today came out ok......Keep checking, because YOU WILL HAVE PROBLEMS!! Just like the Columbus that you had, both utilizing Lippert frames that were built to either Grand Design or Columbus specs, IT WILL FAIL!! With the way these companies are 'pinching pennies' and spec-ing them out to meet bare minimums, ANY TRAILER over 32 feet long will have a broken frame after traveling across OUR wonderful roads here in the United States!!!!

My question would be, who is/or who did the "repair" engineering? Or was it a certified structural engineer?Obviously, I wouldn't want it to be the original person that designed those frames.

You will continue to have other issues due to the broken frame. The problem is much worse than you think. Please understand some of these families have no where else to go. They are screwed for greed. Please don’t let them keep screwing people.

Stop sugarcoating it it’s not frame flex it’s frame failure

Frame failure is what it is. GD is having a tremendous issue going on with their frames on their units. Keep in mind Lippert is not at fault, they are only building these frames to the RV manufacturers (in this case its GD) specs. GD cut corners to save money on the specs, and now it's coming back to bite them in the ass. GD is having a lot of issues with their units, like holding tanks kracking, plumbing issues, slide issues, and frame failure. The other major issue is frame failure is a major expense to get fixed and they don't want to cover it and try to blame the owner for the damage. A lot of owners are getting shafted by GD with frame failure issues, to the piont they don't even want to talk to you about it. If your warranty is over the first year old, you will really have to fight to get them to cover the cost. I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit against them. Maybe if they loose a lot of $$$, all the other RV manufacturers will quite building crap.

Tom, Do you have Lithium Batteries up in the nose of your trailer? I have a 2023 Grand Design Momentum 395msr and I have the built in Generator but added to the solar that came installed. I think we are experiencing a possible broken frame or frame flex. check up under both sides of your bedroom upper cabinets for cracks. We have major cracks on both sides and a crack outside on the corner of the closet slide. We added to the solar which added about 2oo pounds to the front cap. I'm praying they don't try to say that was the issue. Everything else is factory. Pin box is factory. here are the videos: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eOCEg85o2Lebp3k.html, kzfaq.infoAdUI7L9GP0g

Frame flex is a new way to say cheaply built.!!😉

Build your own from scratch and you will love the final results, for less $$$$

time to trade...

Don’t call Grand Design and mention the word frame flex they’ll hang up on you. 😞 We used to own 3 GD campers over a 5 year period and was big fans of the company…..Not any more. It seems that when 2 of the 3 original founders left to pursue other areas, GD customer service suffered tremendously.

poor design and bad welders at Lippert both are to blame Big Truck Big RV did tour but those welds looked good doesn't prove all are good.

Simply not built strong enough! I have no skin in the game. I am a tractor trailer operator, so I'm very familiar with fifth wheel and king pins. The amounts of abuse and weights we haul and failures are not common and when they do its because of age and fatigue.

Seems like 90% of the commenters didn't watch the whole video. I really find the blame the customer stuff sad. Minor loading variations, and taking long trips should not cause any kond of frame failure. Only taken to nearly obscene extremes ahould it cause frame failire. The RV industry must love how well the brainwashing has worked. Even in a video that showed no problem so far, people are blaming your loading and how often you use the trailer ... 😢

I think people forget that these RVs are not made to live in full time. You are on the road all the time and these things are not made to live in all the time. When you are constantly moving all the time, things will come loose and there is a lot of stress in the parts on the RV. The roads in a lot of states are in bad shape and the RV is a rolling earthquake.

1.5x speed. Thank me later

Join the crowd of flex frame owners…..many are facing total loss of a $250K investment and no help from manufacturers…….

I have learned that if you have a Grand Design…you have a failed frame. How many videos do you have to see to know that? Amazing how over 80% of all campers out there are riding on Lippert chassis and only a few designs are the problem. Might be the cheep Chinese recycled steel, might be the under qualified/unqualified welders. Either way you look at it…grand design is designed to fail. I am tired of hearing taking an RV down the road is like an earthquake. Buildings on fault lines are designed to take an earthquake. (California and Japan are examples) Hurricane force winds…Florida building code…it’s not the design. It’s the slap dash want to assemble and sell a lesser product for more money.

Please do not sign an NDA if they offer to help. This is happening to thousands of rigs. We can’t let them get away with this. People are working behind the scenes to get this in courts and to get bills passed changing the manufacturing requirements. There is so much proof all over the internet. Please be a warrior for others with no platform or finances to help.

The manufacturers claim customer overload their rv or pull it with too much truck . Bull crap I say !

The whole design is junk bro!!!!

All GD have it from solitude to momentum, I would never buy one. Horrible uncalculated engineering. Epic failure. GD are making up about 99% of the cases. No coincidence.

Owners of this crap will never come out on top of frame flex claims because the manufacturers will always claim the warranties are void due to overloading of the units, try to prove them wrong they have the perfect out for major frame problems and claims against their companies.

What junk these units all are when will yall grow up and realize these journeys that have moments of freedom and enjoyment are too often over ridden by disapointment, anger, worrying and a drain on your finances.