How Hamilton Tricked Elites Into Supporting Democracy

Рет қаралды 23,379

12 күн бұрын

Live-streamed on June 3, 2024
William Hogeland, proprietor of the “Hogeland’s Bad History” newsletter on SubStack, discusses his recent book The Hamilton Scheme: An Epic Tale of Money and Power in the American Founding.
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William Hogeland joins, first reflecting on the introduction of Alexander Hamilton into popular culture with the recent musical phenomena, and how that provides the opportunity to present a more three-dimensional view of Hamilton’s political philosophy and impact. Now, Hogeland steps back to the inception of the US, and the central role Hamilton played in establishing a financial system that centered on the use of national debt to leverage the economic ambitions of the capitalist class in favor of a nationalist project by allowing them massive ownership stakes, while additionally reinforcing the elitist and anti-democratic makeup of the political class that Hamilton desired. After expanding on Hamilton’s relationship to the US Constitution, including unpacking the relatively subdued role that the Federalist Papers played in the actual ratification, Hogeland walks Sam and Emma through the backlashed faced by the US Federal government due to Hamilton’s wildly anti-democratic financial scheme, looking to both Shays’ Rebellion in 1786 and the Whiskey Rebellion in 1791 as clear cut examples of a coherent dissent and attack on Hamilton’s system of debt and regressive taxation, demanding follow through on the demand of “no taxation without representation” that Americans had fought for, also briefly touching on the greater makeup of this pro-democracy labor movement led by folks with Herman Husband and Thomas Payne. Next, Hogeland looks back to the enemies Hamilton had inside of the US political structures, from State Sovereigntists during the framing of the Constitution, to the Jeffersonian attempts to undermine and overturn his financial system throughout the start of the 19th Century, before wrapping up with the redemption of Hamilton’s legacy over the last few decades, and the particular role his thought played in the US’ response to the 2008 Financial crisis.
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Пікірлер: 84

@user-uq5db4rk1c 10 күн бұрын

Great show. Let me just add something. Hamilton and Madison were also anti-democrats in that they went against the whole idea of the time, that representatives should be CLOSE to the people and come FROM the groups they represented. We hardly ever ask a question that would've immediately occured to the average colonial American. How many working-class members of Congress or the senate are there? How many farmers, fishermen, candle stick makers? How many people who have worked in Amazon assembly lines now sit in the Senate? That was actually a major objection to the Hamiltonian vision at the time. The idea that each member of the House of Representatives now represents 750 thousand people --that would've seemed utterly un-democratic to the opponents of the Constitution at the time. They would say the House has to be vastly expanded to bring members closer to the people, and make them less exposed to being corrupted by special interests. But for Hamilton that distance from the people was a GOOD thing. It meant the representatives would be above "faction" and have "refined" views.

@s0515033 8 күн бұрын

I have to agree I don't want common uneducated people in power. I'd rather have educated people than a candle maker.

@TahtahmesDiary 7 күн бұрын

@@s0515033 The main issue with this is the working class are then wildly underrepresented and further, a good many of the so called educated people we do have in power show their ignorance on a multitude of subjects every day (see their medical understanding of abortion as a glaring example). This assumption the working class is all just too uneducated and too stupid to participate in politics just because they didn't get a degree is proven verifiably false with even a few minutes of critical thinking. We definitely need more activists and working class to represent people's actual lived experience in the USA.

@jimosborne2 7 күн бұрын

@@TahtahmesDiarywhat is the evidence that supports your claim that allowing ignorant citizens to vote is a net positive result? On the other hand, there is significant historical evidence from all over the world that populism leads to authoritarianism and dictatorship. Setting aside the evidentiary issue for a moment and using common sense: when it comes to flying your next airline flight, or your next surgery, or operating the nuclear power plant, or sending a rocket to outer space, or driving a ocean going freighter, or even battling a forest fire, do you really want the less educated, less experienced person in charge? Of course not and running the country shouldn’t be that much different analysis.

@mythiccdxx 10 күн бұрын

They've refined who is a citizen, but to right wingers it's still wealth and property owners everyone else is a slave or a trespasser.

@maurisodio9978 10 күн бұрын

@@mythiccdxx Except beer pickup truck Republicans

@jaye8872 10 күн бұрын

I saw this guy on MSNBC last night. They did not mention that he was a historian. Only independent media gives you the details

@chrisfojtik7391 10 күн бұрын

Ummm... MSNBC has rights to Sam? Sam worked for MSNBC...probably why this guy is front to back with this media and MSNBC with " Hamilton" wasn't an Elite... believe anything

@spanqueluv9er 10 күн бұрын

@jaye8872 ^*an historian, never a historian🤦‍♂️

@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei 10 күн бұрын

@@spanqueluv9er Actually, you can use either. "An historian" is often seen as kinda old-fashioned (because it was mostly common in like the 18th and 19th century) and can be the better choice if your pronunciation deemphasizes the "h" in such a strong way that you're basically just saying "istorian" as some people do. Also, "an historian" is of course more common in British English, because of course it is. They will use every chance to sound like a 19th century aristocrat. The Merriam-Webster for example uses the sentence "In 50 years, some told us, a historian might look back at all the squabbling and hand-wringing and broken governmental promises and see a mind-boggling lack of common sense." as one example for using the term correctly.

@maurisodio9978 10 күн бұрын

@@Kuhmuhnistische_ParteiHand-wringing over grammar

@RedXlV 10 күн бұрын

Independent media can be just as trash as corporate media. You have to find the *right* independent media, the ones who actually care about accurate reporting.

@GayestWinston 10 күн бұрын

Thank you Hogeland and MR for the conversation:)

@mikekruis1022 9 күн бұрын

This is the first person I've seen talk about Husband other than my former professor who was writing a book about him! Husband was interesting, indeed. He was against slavery in the back country of the Carolinas, not because it was immoral, but because it made their white owners lazy and then indulgent in sin. He had to sneak out of the state because he and his group, the Regulators, kept violently attacking the government. He eventually wound up in Pennsylvania and served in their state house for a time. With the passage of the Constituion, he turned against the USA for essentially becoming just like Britain again. My professor just completed his book, the name is Douglas Harvey and the title is Conscience as a Historical Force: The Liberation Theology of Herman Husband.

@joed1950 9 күн бұрын

The Opulent Minority must be protected by the Constitution --Madison. See Federalist Paper #10 “Landholders” [RICH PEOPLE] ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check “the other” (THE MAJORITY) [REGULAR/POOR PEOPLE]. They ought to be so constituted as to protect “the minority of the opulent” against the majority.

@cbbcbb6803 9 күн бұрын

Most of never think about the fact that the revolution had to be financed. Where, and how, did the financiers get their wealth? Thomas Paine wrote the following. "Land, as before said, is the free gift of the Creator in common to the human race. Personal property is the effect of society; and it is as impossible for an individual to acquire personal property without the aid of society, as it is for him to make land originally."

@ScubzMcTalBowling 9 күн бұрын

I'm halfway through The Framers Coup. I'll have to read this book next.

@robmille 7 күн бұрын

Great segment. Added several books/bios to my reading list

@selfish-perverse-n-turbulent 10 күн бұрын

Chris Parenti's Radical Hamilton explained this too ...

@montecristo1845 8 күн бұрын

Funny how those who are used to having power generally fight for exclusivity, while those who are not used to having power generally fight for inclusivity. It’s almost as if those who benefit the most from the existing power structure want to keep it that way out of some devotion to tradition regardless of actual merit.

@Oldleftiehere 9 күн бұрын

Just subscribed to Hogeland’s Substack.

@macrosense 10 күн бұрын

I may be overly idealistic, but I believe Hamilton understood that if a nation does not have its own national bank it is at the mercy of other nations with functional banking systems

@MBarberfan4life 9 күн бұрын

Ah, yes, a country is free to destroy the value of its own currency. And half the population will blame external factors like labor unions, greed, supply chains, etc.

@caymuscairns6845 3 күн бұрын

Husband was a liberation theologian social democrat in the late 18th century. That’s crazy.

@paniclogic5109 9 күн бұрын

Awesome interview

@nonaligned293 10 күн бұрын

you should cover Tucker getting educated about climate change by Russian oligarch 😂

@akeleven 10 күн бұрын

The book is on Audible as The Hamilton Scheme

@CheshireSB 7 күн бұрын

Another factor... global trade. The federalist did not oppose the Brits "press gangs" making American merchant seaman into indentured royal shipmates. The US lost ten thousand sailors forced into the Napoleon wars. The war of 1812 proved we needed to be a naval force to be reckoned with.

@billybigwig1154 9 күн бұрын

Left is best.

@jerrylyns7331 9 күн бұрын

Look up Michael Hudson on debt! Reza Aslan on Jesus! This is so interesting. I’m not Christian but this is all culturally related to ancient debt jubilee practices

@PhilipHood-du1wk 5 күн бұрын

He got 'em drunk!

@deelee4639 6 күн бұрын

Remember this when ppl say capitalism is the best weve ever had, this is what its like when we go to the next ecconomic system

@Groucho_Marxist_ASMR 9 күн бұрын

Did the women also drink a lot? If so, was Fetal Alcohol Syndrome just the norm back then?

@jessicabosco3009 9 күн бұрын

Our founders weren't that honorable lol

@Oldleftiehere 9 күн бұрын

They were human subject to all human frailties. No one escapes.

@benzell4 9 күн бұрын

So, pre-Constitution, this was all under the Articles of Confederation. I don’t think we have heard that during this discussion at 22/29 minutes.

@lreyla 10 күн бұрын

Context great vid

@user-gi8pk9uc7q 9 күн бұрын

He was a very smart guy!

@OMRPines 9 күн бұрын

I wonder how many of those revolutionary evangelicals who rose up against King George would have reconsidered the uprising if they knew he was equal parts Old/New testament. And he considered it a very private thing, so he never had a favorite verse.

@thescoobymike 10 күн бұрын

I would love to become an historian someday. I’m a very “well actually ☝️🤓” type person and that job would be perfect for me

@gregsvlogshow 10 күн бұрын

why am i getting this video again? I saw this one already...🤔

@maurisodio9978 10 күн бұрын

Because it’s a “holiday”

@Salina-qd6es 10 күн бұрын

I watched this earlier. How did I miss crucial info first time? Probably going to watch it again & just jot a notes. 🤔 It's not like I'm interested or anything 😉

@jimmcmanmon 10 күн бұрын

The social gospel

@tyronebrown3837 10 күн бұрын

Just watched hamilton yesterday

@spanqueluv9er 10 күн бұрын

@tyronebrown3837 I’m sorry.

@tyronebrown3837 10 күн бұрын

@@spanqueluv9er why it bangs

@terenzo50 10 күн бұрын

"I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Democracy simply doesn't work." -- Kent Brockman

@Oldleftiehere 9 күн бұрын

So which governmental system does?

@terenzo50 9 күн бұрын

@@Oldleftiehere Beats me. Ask Kent.

@zoharianovici1983 8 күн бұрын

I KNEW IT!

@chrisfojtik7391 10 күн бұрын

They were all elites... poor subject to take on

@nucleargandhi2709 10 күн бұрын

Obvious any early American statesman was a member of the elite class. Doesn't mean that individuals among them were not capable of the occasional good act.

@maurisodio9978 10 күн бұрын

Sit down and listen to Herman Husband

@christiansmith-of7dt 10 күн бұрын

Thats dangerous for a man in my condition

@christiansmith-of7dt 10 күн бұрын

If you guys had half as much courage as me we would all be dead by now

@EricLeafericson 10 күн бұрын

What does that even mean? Courage to do what?

@courier11sec 9 күн бұрын

Wait I thought he won them over with the power of cringehop..

@matthewchristie7712 10 күн бұрын

20:12 Circa 21st Century 20:20 Circa 2nd trump term 20:32 Circa The Future

@beng4647 9 күн бұрын

He wasn't a great man.

@celestialbeing4767 6 күн бұрын

Nwo

@TazKidNoah 8 күн бұрын

Leftism should learn from this🤔

@bb1televator 8 күн бұрын

Is the thread title meant to bait obnoxious Hamilton musical fan into clicking a vid that is critical of Hamilton? Because the title here doesn’t match the content lol