Savitar: I created myself!!! Barry: I won't create time remanents Savitar: Oh... crap!!! (Savitar vanishes)

You are missing huge information Savitar is Barry. That means he will always find a way to fuck the timeline.

Savitar should just have been Savitar from the comics, the cold war pilot who was granted speed and saw himself as a god, instead of time remnant future Barry. But the writers just needed some dramatic reveal, so of course it just had to be someone we knew. Honestly I was more intrigued by Jay Garrick's story of Savitar, the god of speed going against Barry because only Barry could challenge him, to me that is more interesting than this confusing time remnant revenge story.

I already told you, savitar is the worst main villain in the show

Can someone explain to me what happened to the S.T.A.R. Labs Museum

not gonna lie I'm getting jealous of that background

Great video Eric, I love Savitar but I want them to wrap up some of the holes! (Which I know not all are going to be done! But some please...)

It's real simple to me, Savitar said the more you time travel the less the rules apply to you.

Fanbase: "How do you exist bro?" Savitar: "I hid myself while I tried to repair myself." (Mega Man fans will understand this)

Barry Allen when trying to get his speed force back, ended up IN the speed force, until Cisco and Iris were able to pull him out, after he (temporarily) came to terms with not being able save his mother. So.. what if... the time remnant who shut down the Multiverse Destruction Device, whilst original Barry was taking down Zoom, wasn't killed, but ended up in the speed force, like Original Barry had. Because no one knew, he ended up effectively in a speed force loop (perhaps witnessing the death of his mother over and over,. like the speed force prison). And then he managed to get free., but with his mind warped, to such an extent that he himself doesn't know the true story anymore.

Ok so this is my theory... In an alternate future where Barry made time remnants to stop Savitar, the tine remnant of Barry went back in time and became Savitar. Then he went back to 2024, creating an infinte loop of Savitar being created. This was all good until Tracy Brand made the speed cannon, where Savitar was then trapped in the Speed Force. He then created the Philosophers Stone to escape and to thwart the speed cannon, but when he got out, the timeline had changed. In order to still become Savitar, he needs to kill Iris to replace himself (a time remnant) with the real Barry Allen. Essentially, the loop was broken by him being trapped in the speed force, hence why he needs to kill Iris in order for Savitar to still exist.

Savatar had two things to tell Barry...there's the info Savatar said he was keeping to himself the big reveal was Savatars unspoken secret.

airrick i think although savitar revealed his identity to everyone, he still exists because somehow something happens in the future that creates him, making it still a close loop. just like in season 1 when barry lost his powers after fighting blackout, harrison wells is supposed to be erased from existence since no flash no reverse flash, but he is still there because later barry got his powers back. so i think savitar knows what he is doing thus not affecting him

But what if there's something you don't know... that you don't know. 😱

Actually no savitar did NOT give Barry all the details. He literally told him now all I need is for two things to happen, 1. Iris needs to die and 2...then he said he'd keep that to himself for now. So I'm assuming there's something missing.

airricksreloaded Well Savitar has the same memories than Barry (although he is a time remnant), so he would know if Barry knows who he is and I think this is what happened in 3x20 after Barry figured it out. Therefore, he wants to confirm Barry's theory to scare him more, to show him he can't defeat him and maybe then, in 2020, he'll be so desperate he'll create time remnants. Because if Barry knows who he is and isn't desperate, thinks it could still be another person he can defeat and isn't scared then he will have no reason to create time remnants. Savitar is trying to be a classic villain, intimidating and scaring Barry so he's so desperate that he might risk it and make time remnants in 2020 as a last resort, ultimately creating Savitar. That might be why Savitar did this. Keep in mind this is just my theory, but I think this could make sense if the showrunners execute it properly.

The explanation for all of this would be the nice and easy time remnant explainer( In the Reverse Flash way, not the Zoom/Savitar way) of him being a remnant from a former timeline no longer affected by changed like that in the current timeline, but the memory thing ruined that. I'm going with that as my explanation, with the whole memory thing being the plothole

Yknow what they could do? 1: Make the time remnants 2: Savitar leaves himself alive 3: They beat Sav like they did originally 4: Barry acts like he's congratulating Time Remnant by putting his hand on his shoulder, Then Vibrates his hand through Savs body, problem solved

The most important thing in all of this. Cisco keep his hands. #CiscoHandsMatters

With all the plotholes, the stone might as well be calcified "I'm Batman!"

the background is getting better and better every video. cheers Eric!!

Time remnants get created without intention when you have timelines crossing. They don't always get created like Barry did with Zoom. Just like when Zoom went and found a time remnants to die.

But still Savitar said he needs 2 things to happen: 1. Iris to die 2. Is a secret The Secret maybe explains savitars self-reveal .

Hey airricksreloaded! I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your videos. When it comes to the Savitar story, I actually think it would make sense that Barry would end up creating time remnants (TRs) to defeat him. Despite learning Savitar's plan, the death of Iris West would put Barry on a dark path similar to 2024 Barry. Mind you, this is a Barry Allen that is really driven on emotion, despite being as smart as he is, he tends to let his emotions get the best of him. The best examples of this is took place towards the end of last season. 1. Barry wanted to kill Zoom following the death of his father despite having never killed in his life and knowing that killing is wrong. And 2. Barry created flashpoint (also due to the death of his father) despite knowing the dangers of time travel. If Barry can act in this manner following the death of his father, it would make sense that he would be dumb enough to create time remnants to defeat Savitar following the death of Iris West, the love of his life. Iris dying is the catalyst for Savitar's creation; Team Flash is in mourning, they probably aren't thinking clearly. Barry, who, as explained by 2024 Barry, becomes completely invested in stopping Savitar. He would do whatever it takes to finally get rid of him. He would create TRs, Savitar kills all of them except for one, Team Flash would shun the remnant (probably still in mourning and not thinking clearly), and this remnant would become Savitar. But idk that's just my interpretation.

Yeah you make great points... I've always had a problem with Savitar letting a time remant live so he could become Savitar. Cisco's explanation makes sense until you realize that Savitar and the time remnant that will become him are existing at the same point. So if the Savitar that let the time remant barry live was trapped in the speedforce, then how does it make sense that the time remant Savitar was the one released from it? Guess the rules really don't apply when its a constant loop... Now Savitar could have a go around to Barry not making time remants by creating one himself. Then just not killing it.

I agree with you 100%,iv been saying this since the reveal. savitar revealed way too much about his origin. but you should remember that savitar said he needed two things to happen, 1 was iris dieing, he didn't reveal the 2nd thing. I'm sure the show runners are gonna use the 2nd reason to explain the plot hole.. I just hope it ain't gona be their usual slap in the face explanations

Here’s the thing about time travel. It never happens exactly the same way as it originally. Our Barry could create one out of desperation, anger and hate. Logic will be thrown away. Maybe he wouldn’t even be fighting Savitar when he creates it. He would be fighting or doing something else and Savitar just shows up and creates himself. We don’t even know exactly what happened when Savitar was created exactly. What scenario was going on during the creation. It could’ve been an accident for all we know

Couldn't agree more. The writers completely fucked up the whole Savitar story. It sounded to me like they were just winging it and they just did not know how to tie up loose ends.

Savitar can still go back to the time before Barry knows and change the time. thats the wonderful thing with retro causality. Maybe he needs Barry for something in order to change the past again. so the timeline changes and he becomes Savitar. That would imply that Savitar knows that the present timeline we are watching is going to end or will be a "dead end". It would also give power to the Savitar character because he would have a grand plan in all of this.

The whole concept of Savitar doesn't make sense to me. Like, I can't comprehend the timeloop he's experiencing. Like, in the original Emo 2024 Barry Timeline (I'll call it E2BT for short) Savitar is created because of time remnants creation, then he travels back in time, kills Iris, prompts Barry to create time remnants which leads to Barry becoming Emo Barry and Savitar to becoming, well, Savitar, he gets trapped inside the Speed Force. After years of torment he... travels back in time again, kills Iris again, but also reveals himself as Future Barry which pretty much eliminates the chances of his creation (this is season 3 Timeline as opposed to E2BT). Like, it's not even a timeloop because these events overlap and overwrite one another. To me it seems like Savitar has been trapped inside the Speed Force multiple times because of this (he escapes, kills Iris, gets trapped again, escapes, killd Iris and so on and so forth). I don't know how to put it so let me present an example. If any of you read Harry Potter and the prisoner of Azkaban, there's been a moment where future Harry saves his past self from a Dementor by casting a Patronum. Past Harry thinks it was his father but then as time goes on he finds himself in a position where he has to save his past self thus becoming that version that had saved himself originally. OMG it's hard to describe. Ok. So, each Harry (both future and past selves of him) experienced this only once: when they were saved and when they had to save the past version themselves. THIS is a timeloop. But if future Harry saved himself, then decided to go to that time to save himself again but differently - it's not a timeloop. It's a timefuck. I don't even know why he has to kill Iris - he already exists. Events have changed, the future has changed since he pretty much came from a different Timeline (E2BT), so he doesn't have to kill anyone. And if he does and a time remnant of current season 3 Barry becomes Savitar then it's not gonna be that Savitar that we see since, again, the present and the future are different. And the timeloop doesn't come to exist as current Savitar knows it. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something and also fail to describe what I think but that's my two cents on the topic. Sorry for the confusing post and mistakes in it - I'm Russian and English's not my native language.

As far as we know, Barry knows everything except that one thing that Savitar says he would keep to himself in order to become a God and gain control over all of time. Problem for Savitar is, that since he's revealed 99% of his hand to Barry he has no choice but to attempt to become a God or Godlike. If he screws that up then all of what he has done, including "killing Iris" was a waste this time around. The reason I say this is because of the recent photos leaked to the public showing Savitar and Barry standing next to each other in STAR Labs. This has to mean that Savitar's ascension failed.

But technically all they would have to do is be nice to the time remnant if they were to create one

Didn't you hear savitar said that In order for him to be reborn there has to be two events1) iris die and Barry driven far in the dark1) the other thing that he didn't tell Barry. So I guess we just have to wait until the next episode to know what that is.

I honestly think that this season has been the best flash season yet, although you do have to have a grasp of time travel to fully appreciate it, anyway I love that this season has had the most substance with their plot with iris dying and all, especially when the flash went to the future and saw how much of a toll that irises death had on him

Savitar wants Barry to know, He wants Barry to know who he is the man who has His face to kill the love of His life to teach Barry a lesson, for messing with time remnant is not to be mess much. I think the only way Barry can stop Savitar is find the Black Flash to stop him or Barry sacrifice himself into the speed force.

Cisco contradicts 2024 Barry, who says that the time remnants are from his attempt to save Iris (2017), not 2020, unless 2024 Barry attempted to go back in time in 2020 to 2017 with time remnants.The whole thing about time remnants is that they exist independently of alterations to the timeline (thus there's the Flash Season 2 version of Thawne). So presumably this remnant could survive Barry deciding not to create remnants in the future. But that then raises the question of why he still has to kill Iris at all.My problem is fourfold:1. He reverses himself on needing to stop Tracy. The most recent episode he just lets them get the power source, but a couple of episodes ago he sent KF after Tracy? Why the change if he always had the Philosopher's Stone in his back pocket? The only reason I can see for KF to get involved is to drop hints that Savitar is a future version of Barry (knowing what Barry will says, Savitar's a step ahead, you're more alike than you know, etc.). But why spill the beans?2. Speaking of the Philosopher's Stone, if the 2017 version of Barrytar has already spent an eternity in the Speed Force, how did the Speed Bazooka work in 2020? He should have come up with a way to stop it either way. (It would be different if Barrytar said, once the 2024 version told you about Tracy, I got the idea for the Philosopher's Stone.)3, As mentioned, this version of Barrytar claims to have been trapped for an eternity in the Speed Force. When? Where is Savitar in his personal timeline? Presumably the timeline is: [A] Barry creates time remnants circa 2017-2020; [B] Time remnant creates myth of Savitar throughout time; ([C] Time remnant is trapped in Speed Force); [D] Time remnant breaks free in 2017 and kills Iris; [E] Time remnant is trapped in Speed Force in 2020/2021. When does [C] happen? It's been a huge thing that this version of Savitar, who has not yet killed Iris, has mentioned numerous times.4. In addition to your points, before the reveal, the show seemed to suggest that Barrytar pre-existed Flashpoint. For example, Barrytar said that Flashpoint gave him the idea of making Wally a speedster so that he could replace him in the Speed Force. He also says that Barry's greatest foe has "always" been himself (Savitar). In addition, the idea of the recursive loop being a result of Flashpoint, and Flashpoint being the source of Savitar's idea to trick Wally into taking his place is a bit difficult. (One potential solution I've seen is that in the Speed Force, all potential timelines exist, so Flashpoint gave Savitar the idea for how to set in motion the events that would allow the timeline[s] in which he exists to become the "true" timeline. But this still doesn't resolve #3.)

maybe savatar has a split personality an one is savitar and the other is still the flash an he want's to give our barry a way to stop him while the savitar side is trying to create himself

Before we make any judgments on this supposed plot hole, we need to see what happens in the last episode because Savitar said that there was a 2nd goal that he needed to achieve. Maybe it's the 2nd component to ensuring his own existence, which could be brought about in another fashion.

What I'm confused about is how savitar is even a thing. Barry created the remnants to fight savitar which leads to the remnant becoming savitar after being shunned from team flash. However why is that original savitar even alive and put Barry in a situation to create remnants. Without savitar being there in the first place there would be no need for the savitar fight, the being shunned and turning himself the remnant into savitar. Can someone explain this please?

I totally agree with you Airrick, the scenario is full of flaws. The most confusing thing for me is the Time Remnants case. Future Barry says to Barry 'You will go back. You will do everything that you can think of to save her. You're even gonna create time remnants of yourself but he's gonna kill them all mostly. And on the night of May 23rd, Iris West will die in your arms and it will break you'. So Future Barry says that the Time Remnants (including Savitar I assume otherwise why would he specify that 'he's gonna kill them all "mostly" ' are created in 2017 (before may 23rd or on may 23rd). However, in the following episode, Cisco says that Future Barry creates those Time Remnants in 2021 (4 years from now) or 2020 (I've just realized they scr*wed up on dates), which is very confusing and doesn't add up because Cisco's knowledge can only be based on what Barry told him based on the info he got from Future Barry and Savitar. So the discrepancy between what Future Barry says and what Cisco says is very confusing to me. So, "yes", the scenario is scr*wed and "yes" it doesn't add up and I still hope the show will explain the connections between Savitar and Flashpoint (possibly not). I understand your point on Time travel, however, I love time travel, even though I would have liked scenarists to master the storyline better. Thanks for your videos, Man. :-)

they should have made him the flashpoint Barry who was pushed aside by our barry taking RF back to kill his mother. that Barry was never in love with iris and never knew the rest of the team. all of this would work if they did. They could even share memories too because of the way Barry started yo forget his timeline and only remember flashpoont.

the problem for me is how did savatar came to be in the first place.

there is that thing that savitar wouldn't tell Barry that he needed to happen

But my question is, when was Savitar created first? Cuz it takes Iris being killed by Savitar for Barry to make the time remnants, so what happened to make the first Savitar to kick of the time loop thing because he didn't just appear out of nowhere, was there a different set of events that killed Iris for Barry to make time remnants and for one to go off, go back in time and start the Savitar loop, erasing the original Iris death and replacing the thing that killed Iris with himself so that he is in control of his future? Causing the "endless" loop? That's my theory.

Maybe, Savitar wants Barry to stop him and the loop keeps getting tighter and tighter until the original barry becomes savitar. If I was Barry, I'd immediately go back in time and find the philosiphers stone

Ideal season four. 1. No more new speedsters. 2. Barry actually being the Fastest Man Alive and not complaining he is not fast enough. 3. No more new speedsters. 4. Use WestAllen and time travel sparingly. 5. No more new speedsters. 6. Have a big bad that outsmarts Team Flash instead of being brutally strong/fast. Make The Flash something like a light-hearted thriller. 7. No more new speedsters. 8. Make Barry more like season one Barry, witty and cheerful, not emo and intense. 9 No more new speedsters. 10. Have a crossover that does not involve any stupid aliens. I am referring to the Dominators, not Mon-El and Supergirl. 11. No more new speedsters. 12. Have more warm moments with Joe, Cisco and Caitlin. Did I mention no more new speedsters?

Maybe Savitar wants the current Barry to become Savitar instead of a time remenant. That way the loop breaks and Savitar is a permanent being rather than a being created out of time and thus doesn't need that constant loop to be created.

that's a good point Eric, I agree with you completely.

Also remember Eobard Thawne was able to survive a long time after being written out of existence. We even suspect there was one version of Eobard hanging out so Savitar hanging outside the timeline isn't a problem. The suit or Philosophers Stone maybe helping or hiding him from the Speedforce. Totally agree with you that Savitar s plan currently makes no sense but he has another part of his plan hopefully it will clean that up some.

1. What is the point of Barry stopping Savitar when Iris is already killed? 2. Why Savitar needs Killer Frost, when he is the God? 3. Why Savitar has to kill Iris only at the specific place, specific date/time? Why not earlier? For what he was waiting for?

I think you are right. I've had this argument with folks in groups. This is how I wrap my mind around it. This is obvious a time loop that has played itself many times before. Although it is not explicitly explained in this way, I surmise that this has happened time and time again. It has to have. For example, Savitar mentions a future where Team Flash shuns him. How is that the case? In the future we saw, Team Flash was nonexistent. And unless Emo Barry was lying, he didn't know that his time remnant was Savitar either. I think what is different this time is that Barry knows who Savitar is now. As the name of the episode suggests, FINISH LINE, once Barry realized who his true enemy was he is finally able to break the loop and resolve this battle. Notice that I didn't say war. Savitar is Barry's dark side. He will always be there...

Actually he is trying to birth himself into this timeline he said it himself in the episode HE IS TRYING TO BREAK THAT LOOP

Everybody is forgetting that Savitar said he needed to do two things to ensue his creations. 1 Kill Iris and the other one he never said what it was.

Looove the video :) and here are some of my thoughts: Original Savitar must be someone else then Barry period. Only that way Barry it is belivable that Barry is savitar and would create time remnants to fight that other Savitar. Just take a closer look at the explanation that Cisco provided. Future Barry creates TR to fight Savitar. So who was first Savitar? Then Cisco said - When Future Barry traps Savitar in the Speed Force TR goes back in time to become Savitar. We can conclude, based on this sentance, that two Savitar exsists in some point in time and therefor original Savitar is not Barry. Also, future Barry traps Savitar in Speed Force which exsits somewhere beyond space/time and is not affected by timeline changes so we can assume that there are countless Savitars traped in Speed Force. Just remmember when Savitar said that he lived this already and knows what Barry will do and not only that but knows exactly what he will say (i'm not talking about Savitar/Barry joint memories) word by word. Like that scene with Killer Frost when she took the words from Barrys mouth and knows where Cisco is. Problem with this is that Caitlin becomes Killer Frost because of Flashpoint (cause and effect) and this is first time Barry and the whole team are going thru all of this. So Savitar could not lived this present because in some other future without flashpoint (the future from where Savitar is) Caitlin would not become Killer Frost. Soooooooo many plot holes. Its laughable and annoying.

i think that savitar is gonna try to send our barry to the moment and place where iris dies, so he gets rejected by team flash and their family so the story stars all over again

That is what I have been saying since the full reveal. "Okay, so don't make time remnants, loop not started problem solved.". I guess the second hidden objective will at least try to make it not a plot hole or plot induced stupidity on the characters. Not that I believe the writers won't mess up something, cause they seem consistent on that one. Now, one thing though. Barry calls Savitar time remnant, and Savitar corrects him (without much acknowledgment from the narrative or barry at that point) "Time Duplicate", which I think it makes sense. The idea of a time remnant is that... he IS Barry (at least if the show understand logic), hence a duplicate. When a speedster time travels and changes the past, everyone else doesn't get duplicated into a parallel timeline or into the same. They are just changed themselves. Only the speedster is duplicated (the who he would be had he not time traveled, and who he is for time travelling). But from the branching point, there is no "real speedster", both are the same being duplicated - it is just htat one version was the source of the change in the past and eventual speedster duplication. So, what if killing Iris and leading barry to create Savitar is his plan B? His plan A is to prevent the duplication from happening so that there remains existing only one Barry, meaning that the barry that would become savitar is still that single being (except he never becomes savitar himself, not in that way). It is kind of erasure, but it is kind of merging via altering one's own past so that one is never duplicated. That is the less bad I got.

The ONLY way i think this whole Savitar thing stays constant is if you consider "timelines" as alternate universes. The only reason I say this is because earlier in the season Cisco was able to vibe a Flashpoint universe where Barry didn't leave so every altered timeline in the show must exist out there. You'd have to think of it as though there is a main Earth One timeline but Savitar is from one that branched off after Flashpoint. So his existence is not completely tied to Barry creating him because he's actually from another universe technically where Barry didn't know who Savitar was. Idk I'm probably completely wrong because it's so hard to actually explain any of this in words and that's how you know the writers haven't done a good enough job explaining this.

Hello Eric, I’m not sure if you will see this but I’m so desperate to try and find out, can we take it back to season 2 episode 18, in this episode Barry Allen using the tachyon enhancer for the first time, when he runs back to central city, but he goes so fast he actually time travels, this is his first time , time travelling except the fact he doesn’t know where he went or whatsoever, if you watch the clip you can see, I just wanted to know if you could try to dig deeper and find out some more or even create theories, I’m so desperate to find out, pretty please

It's arrogance and anger. He just had to torment Barry by showing him how bad he could become.

Savitar should have phased out of existence like Eobard in Season 1 right ? Hmm unless the philosophers stone which is a calcified piece of the speed force protects this version of savitar from being phased out of existence like he said the more you time travel the less the rules apply to you. I dunno this shits confusing as hell

what if he doesn't want the future he discribed? cuz he is stuck in an infinite loop, he wants to change that, he wants to be in this timeline and forge his own path and be born as a loopless Savitar who can make his own choices. that's why he revealed his identity, to change the loopy future but still ensure his existence

You know they're just going to say it's because of the philosopher's stone and just wave it away like it doesn't matter.

So as I was watching this video airrick, I was thinking to myself how this could happen as well and I came up with a theory which I am going to describe now to see if anyone else agrees. So, what we know from Savitar is that he is a time reminant that Barry created to fight Savitar in the future right? well the Savitar that fought Barry in 2020 was then trapped in the speed force prison, NOT the time reminant itself. Then, team flash shuns the time reminant since it is not the original Barry, so as the show explained sort of, the time reminant ran far back in time and created the myth of Savitar. This is the same myth that Jay explained to Barry earlier in the season mind you. So then, our Barry created Flashpoint. This is something that did not occur in the continuous loop before, making a new timeline after episode 2 of the season. So at that point, Savitar, the one in the speed force, came up with his ultimate plan: to kill Iris and make his birth possible. Later, we see that Savitar escaped the speed force prison by having Wally replace him right? so theoretically, the Savitar we see is NOT the same time reminant that went back in time and created the myth. the reason Savitar revealed to Barry that he was a time reminant is because he wants to change events, so Barry does not realize his true motive. Bringing in the preview clip for the finale for a moment, we see Savitar running around some breech that he opened himself I am assuming. Here is the theory: Savitar wants to have the time reminant that is supposed to be himself come to 2017 secretly (yes, Killer Frost is there to witness the breach, I'll get to that in a moment). Savitar is then going to kill the original Barry Allen and let the shunned time reminant take his place, and the team will be none the wiser. the Savitar we have been dealing with will then cease to exist, having finally completed his goal to get back at the team for shunning him. Now, as I mentioned just a moment ago, Killer Frost was there in the trailer to witness the breach. I have a feeling that she pieces together Savitar's plan and goes to warn team flash, having had a relapse in judgement after fighting Cisco. This is where Savitar's plan will fall apart at the seams. Its just a theory, but what does everyone else think?

But what if the causality loop means a differnet version of Barry becomes Savitar and every Savitar has to come up with his own plan to overcome the next version of Barry. i.e. Our Barry becomes Savitar who then causes another Barry to make a time remnent that becomes Savitar. (T.R Savitar causes -> Our Barry to become Savitar -> Next Barry makes T.R Barry who then becomes Savitar)

This is what I have been thinking since the Savitar Reveal

I agree with you airricksreloaded. Savitar messed up his birth that is why he is trying to turn himself into a speed force alien (god like) so he will be eternal in the speed force allowing him to come in and out of the speed force just like black flash. That is my theory. Do you agree with my theory??

Barry 2024 may have known but didn't want to come clean but gave enough info to figure it out

i think he needed to reveal himself since his timeline was already getting fucked up and he needed to find out where iris was hiding

when is your mega video coming out?

This is so true man. I'm guessing the other part of his plan then is to make Barry create time remnants.

So now Savitar is a time remnant that exists for Barry to know to not create savitar

The future can be changed though, it is not set in stone so all those things that happened in the future would never happen if flash changed it

Savitar said there is one more thing Savitar needs to do. Savitar may have a way to fix himself as an object outside time. Maybe the Philosophers Stone. Maybe he replaces himself in younger Barry.

Did they not try to explain it by Savitar saying the funny thing about time travel is the more you do it the less the rules apply to you? I thought that is what they used to explain the issues you mention

The fact they used an alright bad guy for season 3 I don't like how they mashed "the once and future flash" story with this savatar bs but I'm sure it sounded good sorry but they messed it up using the time remnant it should of just been future flash himself and a different alias

Now that the season is over I think you know why he did everything he did.

When Barry says to Savitar "What if I kill myself? Then you'll never be created." Then Savitar basically says cause & effect is tricky. It didn't work out so well for Eddie, yada, yada, yada. But here's my point. How would Barry killing himself, not blink Savitar out of existence? Especially when they just proved that erasing Barry's memory affected Savitar, and by extension Wally's powers. Wally got his powers months ago. So they just proved that if they screw with their version of Barry it affects Savitar, and his actions at any point in time. If a mind wipe affects him, how would he remain safe from Barry's suicide? Hmmmmm 🤔

What if savitar didn't actually kill iris,just made it seem like he did and then just stuck her at some random point in time where only he knows where she'd be

+airricksreloaded The fact that savitar is still present probably means that barry in the future probably creates time remnants to defeat a future villain(not savitar) and then barry realises that he has to abandon the time remnant so that the timeline is intact.

Exactly, why would Barry create the time remnant knowing this. You are tied with Pagey for my favorite DCCW show reviewer!

Agree!... my hipotesy is: remember the movie "meet the Robinson's" ? I believe this is gonna get resolve like in that movie. (I will never create you)

I think it's safe to say the the writers made Savitar a dumby-dumb because "hur dur the hero always wins".

Yeah even if Iris didn't die and Barry ended up creating time remnants, than the one time remnant would've gotten shunned anyway and became Savitar. He shouldn't have told Barry anything about the time remnants so Savitar should just cease to exist because Barry is gonna make sure that won't happen whether or not Iris dies or not, it makes no sense.

The 2024 we saw has changed because Barry now knows who Savitar is. This could mean that Barry, who is in control of whether or not he makes speed copies of himself, could control whether or not Savitar ever exists, therefore eliminating Savitar from existence, and that this has led to a plothole/paradox/story problem. On the other hand, perhaps there is an event that takes place between now and 2024 which results in Savitar coming up with a way to force Barry to create a remnant or otherwise greater harm (harm that could take place with or without Savitar in existence) would happen to the city or even the whole planet itself. Perhaps this broken version of Barry is led to make a choice to allow the death of Iris to stand or allow the deaths of thousands maybe even millions of people and he chooses to create the copy of himself because he is broken and has been backed into a corner and just accepts that he cannot get Iris back. Even so, perhaps even if this remnant is created Barry and the team could try to not make the same mistake they made before, by accepting this copy of Barry. But, whomever is allied with Savitar who could be the one responsible for bringing about the event that forces Barry to create the remnant is able to manipulate the remnant and turn him against the team the same way Savitar is messing with Caitlin.

Why did Savitar restore Flashpoint metahumams power? In season 2 Zoom sent a lot of metahumans from Earth 2 to 'kill' Barry so that he could get faster while defeating them. But why would Savitar wanted Alchemy to restore the power of Flashpoint metahumans to go up against Barry? Savitar is not suppose to kill Barry but why would he do that? And for some reasons, Alchemy is just a filler-ish villain for me. At some point I was hoping that Julien would betray the team or Savitar would end up being Julien but...SAVITAR AND THE FLASH SEASON 3 MIGHT BE 'COOL' BUT THEY ARE ACTUALLY A HUGE MESS FOR ME.

my theory is the original savitar season 2 time remanent is coming out of the portal 2nd savitar opening . amd know he needs to kill barry and 2nd savitart to exist or be only 1. this based of the zoom theory how he let him remanents do the dirty work then kill them at the end . so i think we about to see the real savitar or a rouge speedster from speedforce.

savitar created a new timeline when he tried to ensure his survival.....but he will not be in the present timeline....thus nothing that happens in the present timeline would prevent his creation.....he did that the moment he revealed himself

Maybe that's what he's trying to do ? To stop himself but he's too weak to do it himself ? He hasn't vanished cause "More you do it , less the rules apply to you"

He could just kill the time remnant after having h help him just like how zoom did

Random idea: Maybe is the way savitar has to jump out of this point: He already said that time travelling doesn't affect him anymore, so he may think that this could be the way for him for escaping the loop (being created, becoming savitar, being trapped in the speed force).

What if savitar drives Barry so mad he prefers the pleasure of trapping him in the speed force to otherwise or he realises he can only defeat him after he creates ruminants as savitar is always ahead PLAN: Barry creates two time ruminants and then brain washes himself, 1 becomes iris west before murder other is Barry, then savitar cannot know Barrie's movements

"Why does my perception of time distress you? Everything is preordained even my responses. We're all puppets Laurie. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings." But in all honesty I feel like none of the cw shows have done any justice to their comic book counterparts with far too many inconsistencies, plot holes and too much focus on relationships especially with the flash and green arrow comics currently being one of the best out there.

I've had a look into the future, I know how it ends, I know what happens, I know who dies and I know arrow will soon be back to the way it was because... felicity dies

maybe he time traveled so much that savitar became a paradox

Good point

when barry goes back to save iris

Savitar is the POSSIBILITY or a possible outcome of the past/present that's been made before happening.. :D Normal : Past/Present/Future Savitar : Future/Past/Present

I totally agree I'm thinking when Savatar opens the portal something has changed or something comes through that Savatar can't handle.

Quite simple. It was a loop. But to end the loop it has to change. This is The Who knows how many rounds of the loop. Savitar changed some things this time which will enable Barry to end the loop.

Wait..... so does that mean due to cause and effect Savitar isn't gonna be created and Iris West isn't gonna die because of that ? Just like how Wally loses his powers.