Do you think that sealed collectors are being "mistreated"? Why or why not? Check out the article at: www.inputmag.com/gaming/retro-video-game-auctions-market-heritage-auctions-wata-controversy

I think Seals are wildly mistreated. Clubbings, being forced off docks, made to play horns at circuses. Thank you for bringing up this important topic that no one in your community wants to address.

Anyone with even a miniscule knowledge of how the Art world of buying and selling works, knew immediately what this was. Its one the oldest plays.

This was a full throated defense piece for the shenanigans happening in sealed game collecting. They quoted Karl while failing to mention the mans literally done multiple feature length documentaries on the subject of why this isn't natural. Instead the bulk of the article is given over to someone who works for the auction house at the center of this whole thing and then quoting someone involved in the scam, misrepresenting him to his benefit. Then the author throws in a bit of editorializing to demean anyone who thinks something is going on as just a jealous hater at the end lol Who wants to bet Input magazine (who?) is owned by someone involved in this or has friends that are involved in this.

As a gamer, i want to play the games i collect. A sealed game can't be played. Can't be admired or enjoyed. Seems to me, a sealed game defeats the purpose

I'm one of the biggest and oldest sealed game collectors, but I'm old skool. I understand the values going up gradually and organically, and I was aware of that 22 years ago when I first started buying and keeping games sealed. But that was not my primary motivation for collecting - I merely wanted my games in the best possible condition. If they increased in value, that was just a bonus. Then VGA came along and upset the apple cart. Suddenly we saw a split amongst the sealed community, with those who grade behaving more elitist than those who didn't. Values between raw and graded grew, but it didn't happen overnight, and you can see a stable growth curve. When WATA burst onto the scene, and made a deal with Heritage, that's when weird things started happening. Suddenly games that were previously only worth a few hundred or couple of thousand Bucks were selling at 10x the price, for no obvious reason. Suspiciously though, a lot of games being sold at the very top end were by individuals with links to WATA or Heritage. Coincidence? The massive price hikes within the last 18 months are unprecedented, and certainly not organic. A handful of big sales occurred to generate press coverage, and everybody suddenly jumps on the bandwagon. More and more sealed games come out of the woodwork, including NES and Atari 2600 games (which let's face it, the people running WATA are mainly only interested in these because that's what they collect themselves). Having monitored this market for over two decades, and been a part of it for a long time, I definitely feel as if something suspicious is going on behind the scenes and revolving around WATA / Heritage. The worst feeling is that I'm now priced out of a market that I helped popularise, having previously been considered a social pariah in the early days of NintendoAge and Digital Press forums. Despite owning several thousand sealed games, I'm now considered a "small" collector because I refuse to pay 5 figure sums for a single graded game! I'm looked down upon by people paying 4 figures for games that used to only cost $30 in the early days of eBay. Ideal time for me to sell out as I paid less than retail for most of my collection, but certainly not a good time to be buying the titles that I missed out on the first time around.

I think WATA has put a damper on actual collectors by artificially inflating the prices, causing a new group of "collectors" (investors) to come in thinking they're going to make a ton of money?! Real collectors seem to get lumped into their group by default.

Video game journalism has been a joke for years. They won’t question WATA because WATA has the money.

I don’t think they are being mistreated enough.

We haven't bought single games as a collective because we've all learned from the Radioactive Man #1 Treehouse of Horror.

Remember when people used to collect games just to play them because they like games.

$1.5 million for a Mario Game? What reasonable expectation would you have for a return on investment on that? Which begs the question, how much of this is money laundering? ( the dirty secret of the fine art world).

I am so happy that Ian is getting better. I greatly appreciate your wit, humor, and perspective. Take care 😎

Lots of collectors buy game and let them sit on the shelf… what’s the difference if it’s in a case or not if it’s sitting their doing nothing. Sealed or sitting on shelf doing nothing is the same thing to me.

I can't help but wonder how many of these Sealed expensive gqm s are defective such as bad carts and CDs as it does happen. They won't know until they open it and I'm sure there is no reimbursement for such issues. Hope the plastic wrap was worth the money

It finally happened ha. This article is written from a clearly very biased perspective. I think sealed and graded collectables are important for preservation, but it is undeniable that very sketchy ppl are manipulating OCD whales for massive gains. It will be interesting to see 5 to 10 years how we look back at all this.

Could have had a Double Dragon 2 sealed for 50 bucks two years ago, damn. What grabage this hobby (I mean "market") has become. Play games and enjoy the history and nostalgia.

I have over 20 sealed games, and I bought them before this mad rush to get them graded. I specifically bought and keep these to open later in life, and enjoy the experience of opening and playing a “brand new” game. They will never be graded. It really disturbs me that sealed games are being slabbed with the intent to never be opened and the prices are inflated as a result. These supposed “investors” have ruined it.

Hope you get well soon, Ian!! Tbh, collect whatever you like. The elitism is the main issue with any form of collecting. Who freaking cares what someone else owns? I bought a used gray Japanese Sega Saturn today with Panzer Dragoon Zwei. I buy games to play them, not for the monetary value.

A sealed Super Mario game- meh. But a sealed box of a more obscure NES variant like the Samurai, that would be far more interesting to try to put a price on.

Love your podcast and have been a patreon subscriber for years. I'm not really interested in these wata/sealed game collecting pieces. Everyone here is in agreement that they are scumbags and there rarely is surprising news stories on them. Obviously you can see the metrics on the excitement for these videos.

I’m just waiting for you guys to discuss the graded VHS market. 🙏🏼

Haha “jealous” that’s their only defense. Such a weak defense especially when Karl went in depth with his videos. I knew something was up from the beginning of the heritage auction hype stuff. You’re completely right too collecting sealed goes into not really collecting for the game anymore because at that point you care more about the condition of the cellophane than the game itself. I got a few sealed games but for the most part have sold most of my collection because I’ve had them before the spike and some returns were just too Great to pass up.

Don't know if this helps but I was in a dilemma when ff7 remake came out as I'm a final fantasy collector. Covid had eb games closed when it came out. I sat and thought as I had pre-ordered it and want the physical for my collection. I ended up buying a digital copy for the bonuses. A few months later I bought an over priced sealed copy. I have intergrade sealed and no ps5 for me it is to collect. I am against the concept of sealed collectors as they are profiteers not game collectors. You collected the full nes library and wanted to collect it. I love final fantasy up to 10 anyway. And have figures sealed and opened the guides mags that reference them. But like Ian with my records I'm the same I don't care what they are worth I love them and that's why I bought them. Finally I use to collect vhs when I was on hard times and they were a quarter. My dad asked me one day why are you collecting vhs they are worthless my response was exactly. Collecting that becomes a price tag you are a stock broker and careless about the actual subject. Awesome collection pat by the way I don't always agree with you guys but when it counts I do. Great topic to bring up guys. #get this disease out of our medium fuck wata and heritage for diminishing the actual value of video games.

I have been collecting big box pc games for the past 25 years or so now. I can confirm, prices have slowly been rising on most titles. There are a select set that started skyrocketing in the early 2000's and their prices are higher, such as any of the Sierra On-Line Quest collections (i.e. Space Quest collection, King's Quest Collection etc.) and of course the Ultima games. What I had never seen was what the prices started to do right after that Mario64 sealed box sold. Prices on boxed games very nearly doubled pretty much overnight on the bay. People felt like they were sitting on gold in more instances, even if all they had was the floppy disks, with no manuals or even a box. It left me and a lot of the people that I talk to just scratching our heads. And worse yet, a lot of the older box games don't work any more. The magnetic media used has died in the ensuing 30+ years. I try to collect open box games because I still like to play them on original hardware. Sealed games are only purchased when that's all I can find for a reasonable price. But my idea of reasonable and the market 'reasonable' has a disparity of about 80 dollars a game in some cases now. And I will admit I am a little jealous of how some people can afford these higher prices. It sucks, knowing I can't buy that copy of Battletech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception because it's more expensive than I can afford and I would like to play the game again since I haven't played it since I was young. But I also know that I can't blame the sellers for following the market. It just feels disgusting that the market has quite possibly has been manipulated to where it is so that one certain group could make massive profits.

All I can say about this video is that you guys nail it on the head 100%. I'm so glad I've been collecting these games all of my life. My games are something that I collect on that I love they are not a commodity in the traditional sense

I'm glad we're discussing this now! See, I care Pat!

Sealed game collectors LARPing oppression wasn't on my 2022 bingo card.

Ian i hope you get better soon. You sound very sick

I just hate that the speculators and investors are inflating the prices of the loose market. It's gross and only hurts people who're doing it for the love of it.

Completely agree with Pat, but please be careful about gatekeeping the hobby. Especially new collectors who are buying none sealed games.

I just gotta say... I think putting Ian's head on Mario is a riot! Excellent idea Pat haha

I've bought a few sealed games. And every single one of them has been ripped open and played. Usually the were optical drive games (PS1, etc.) and I went sealed just to know the disc would be intact. Even then I got one that came loose off the center spindle and rattled around in the case and got scratched to all hell, though.

😂🤣😂they’re crying, oh poor rich fake collectors don’t like being outed? Go play Mario 3 to feel better. Wait! Wait!! They can’t, it’s fucking sealed 😂🤣😂

Their part about Eric is probably the most laughs I've had here, even though it's really not a humorous issue.

I got a few rare games back before they were scalped on ebay (Little Samson isn't one of them) and it's more annoying to think if I sell them they'll never be available for a reasonable price again.

I hear that Eric the Dentist has a pristine copy of Tooth Protectors for the Atari 2600! (Funny side note, I missed getting a copy of that game for about $10 in a box of random Atari games at a convention.) :/

Can I buy a derivative of a sealed copy of Chubby Cherub now?

My favorite part about getting limited type things new is unwrapping it from the plastic because I like to enjoy things I buy lol

Great episode .... Pat said a naughty word and Ian said "patMATH" I am gonna make a shirt that says "PATMATH" !!!

I went to a Retro Gaming convention in 2000, which was held in Las Vegas.

Input Mag 😂. My nickname is Mag… “hey sweetie look”

I've never had an interest in buying sealed bricked games or other collectibles. I have a few sealed retro video games, comics and vinyl records. Nothing wromg with collecting bricked graded collectibles its cool just not my cup of tea. When the prices of retro video games shot way up i stopped buying physical retro games and now buy digital releases.

I prefer loose cartridges as it keeps collecting simple and fun but sealed games are the best way to collect. It is the only way a game is truly complete. Sealed collecting is not about collecting the seal but instead having something you enjoy in it's most complete form. It's a great thing if you can find what you like at a fair price.

I'm going to miss this topic losing the vote week after week :,-)

Finally, the viewers picked the right option.

No go back look at the graded coin and card market. Those prices spiked immediately. My father and I worked for one of the big three back in the 80’s. We both quit over unethical practices by the owner. They wanted us to grade things better for certain clients. Ohh and yes one auction house fellow. Can you guess who that might be?

Ian, hope you're ok, get well soon.

If you were foolish enough to buy into the hype of "sealed rated games" I have some RBI Baseball NFT's that might interest you.

Sour grapes = truth speakers.

I don't know about mistreated, but it would definitely suck for them. Art can get expensive, what's new?

You two are very good and breaking down and alerting the VG community to these issues. Hence me be a subscriber for over... 8 or so years now. Keep up the fantastic coverage of these "supposed" scumbags. :)

Ian is looking and sounding much better

Seeeaaallleeed

it's publicly knowledge that you spent $12500 on the gold cartridge pat, don't know why you never say the number live lol

prices on loose carts are also shooting up. esp GBA games..

Wouldn't surprise me

The endless salt flowing from pats orifices was worth the wait on this topic

Sealed games are unplayable cabinet pieces. I own 1. College Football's National Championship II for Genesis. Why? Because I have the WR high score via Twin Galaxies. I paid 15 bucks on ebay for it because of a random find lol! I don't see a reason to collect any others. Especially when they to me defeats the purpose of having a video game. They are to be PLAYED and ENJOYED.

I hope so

Anytime I see a game that’s less than 10 years old and it sells for $5000 and it’s a common game, I mean I definitely get ideas of messaging the person and telling them what a douche they are! But it enrages me to see something that was for years going for 200$- $300 now going for $5000 because everybody’s ridiculous🤑

Boys boys... You are all collectors. You are collector , you are collector and youuuu ^^ Anybody can be , a collector ! Yay ! ... What were we talking about ?

“What a stupid, dumb statement to say!” Lol 🤣🤣🤣

yeah especially after the game collecting scene was falling off

I can see why Pat has been dying to talk about this topic for months. He has so much to say. Ian was kinda not interested in the discussion at all, might have been the flu though.

Pop. That's the bubble bursting! LoL. I wonder when the bubble will truly burst, though. It's insane and dishonest

Imagine all those Amico games being sold for $10k. Roflmao!!!!!

I would gladly sell all my pile of shame in case some big money box would be given to me in exchange. I don't care when there are the rich, able to spend huge amount on games. Why should I ? Because I would be jealous not receiving that stash of bucks???

Good morning Gardez Afghanistan 🇦🇫 .. stay safe guys !

I truly don’t get the motivation behind getting all gatekeepy here. If someone wants to buy a sealed game as an investment, or if they want to buy it to put on their shelf and never think about again like a “real” collector, what’s the difference? Who cares? The only people hurt by this are either, A. Other would be investors who will end up holding the bag if the market bursts, in which case, that’s the risk you run, or B. The collectors who now have to pay more to buy a game and then put it on a shelf to never think about again, in which case I think sour grapes is a fair description. Just not sure why we need to worry about either of these groups. Agree with y’all that “cancel culture” is a dumb and made up way to hide from criticism though.

SEEEEAALLED!!

sealed game collecting is a cancer to the retro gaming

Man, is Ian feeling under the weather? He didn't have much to say today

too much Fed easing has led to too much money chasing too few real investments. This is why we have the nonsense of NFTS, cryptos, real estate, market highs, and even boxed video games... Its all nonsense and it will all collapse soon because the central banks have boxed themselves in, they have to raise rates or stop easing, status quo is no longer an option.

It's not fair to lump sealed collectors with these WATA guys. In regard to the WATA guys, I suppose they are mistreated in the sense that they're being scammed like no one else in the hobby has been scammed before. All we gotta do is sit back and watch the hilarity ensue when they are ruined by the bad decisions they made. Sadly, bad people like Eric will probably get away clean. I don't feel sympathy for them at this point because they have so many resources to figure out this is all illegitimate and that they need to pull out.

Yeah those expensive games are just for a SEALED niche market. Most games are generally affordable.Less than one thousand dollars. 😄

When did Ian Grow that beard?

Everyone who was in to collecting 5, 10 years ago is now out of the hobby, and those that are left cannot afford to buy very many retro games these days as compared to before. So these idiot investors will be left with a dead market with no enthusiasm in it.

Criticism is not abuse.

Finally this topic wins lmao

I dont think collector is the right word for them, Pat you are a collector. collectors gather collections to hold on to them, the value is owning the item. This new wave of people are curators or traders, they gather up collections for financial gain and the value is the literal dollar value, slabbing and grading only helps to sell a game there is no added value to an actual collector, its an investment to them

WATA continues with his unethical practices, they send newsletters telling people where to buy WATA games on auctions sites, those auctions sites are affiliate with WATA, I bet they gives a better grade for those games on those sites. WATA is a grade company with relation with auction sites, that's not clear, unethical and suspicious.

in the real world prices will drop

I dont normally buy sealed games nor want to buy into graded games. I buy games to play but also to collect. I could care less to have a graded 10 game. It's a glorify mantel peace.

Envy and jealousy.... Smh.... That's is alot of people's mindset these days with everything... Blame others, don't be reasonable or look at data and facts.

Damn Ian, you sound like death homie. Get some rest.

What people dislike isn’t that the market has gone up its that it’s gone up so quick due to manufactured demand. Collectors are justified at being outraged at the market being distorted by a bunch of rich jagoffs buying graded games off each other for way more than they’re really worth to create the illusion that those sales are genuine and that those items are really worth that much due to market forces and organic demand.

sell your games now, laugh all the way to the bank, and then when the market collapses, which it will buy the games back in a few years at pennies on the dollar.

Ian sounds as bad as I do rn. I've been sick the past week.

Anyone wasting money on sealed product is a doofus with more money than sense

I've been buying physical copies of switch games, keeping them sealed, and buying the same games digitally. I just like having a shelf with sealed games.

does ian have covid?

You know the world is all about $£¥$$$$$$$$$ right?!?! Not saying i agree but cmon you can expect this

Hmm, a sketchy individual dismissing valid criticism by saying it's coming from jealous gatekeeping haters... where have I heard that before?

🤯

Hahaha. Sealed collectors claiming mistreatment. Amiico fans having only packaging.to collect.

If tou collect sealed games you are not a real gamer! Sealed games and all this grading crap is what it is CRAP!!! Games are to play not stare at like an obsolete baseball card collection.Us real collectors not just know what we have but we lnow that sealed games are not worth any more but maybe less as the plastic left on them will destroy them in time. Those types are jokes of all collectors and they always will be.

Not sealed, but in the arcade space PCB prices are outrageous now. Thanks to RaspPi, MAME and MiSTer products I can still play games like DoDonPachi without going broke for 1 game lol.

FINALLY! XD

New year no new Tommy vids Amico