They based the “dancing” off of actual martial arts and swordfighting, but whatever, enough people complained about it apparently so JJ felt it necessary to forgo choreography entirely.

That’s the dumbest criticism I heard. The OT fight scenes were garbage too

yeah dudes like skall are so "oh im so inteligent cause i like real swordfights, not dancing" where the fok is your artistic perception then mate, there is a reason they are called martial ARTS, a big part of some martial arts are fluid and dance like movements, which require a lot of coordination, good balance, weight managment, flexibility etc, all of those are amazing qualities which not many nerd swordmasters seems to even know how to mix that with your sword play, or any hand to hand combat for that matter

@@bensul9979 i think you're too far gone there dude. We all agree the new trilogy choreography just sucks, but that doesn't really equate to "because people criticize the prequel therefore we get this". The prequel combat is indeed "performance" heavy, but anyone who had any weapon practice or martial arts would be able to tell that the move isn't realistic, and would remove the immersion. It's fair criticism, and if you enjoy the artistic side of it the same way you enjoy seeing people dance, then more power to you. You know well it's not meant to be that way in the lore though, it's supposed to be a fight to the death. Star wars fans like me and perhaps you are all bummed out with the new trilogy, but perhaps dont blame that to people who dont deserve to.

all the actors had proper training with the style of fights they tried to achieve, namely theatrical asian sword martial arts, I do not see any of that in the sequel films especially on Rey, which i want to remind you, supposedly trained with Leia for month prior to the events of the film

I had hoped Disney forgot they owned star wars so that we didn’t have to take brain bleach to ourselves… at least Shad makes it entertaining and informative and we can make fun of our pain… I propose a game. Any time there’s a crappy swing or block or bind we take all take a shot of our chosen beverage, be it innocent and sugary or caffeinated or alcoholic so that the only movies in the series we spend actually in our right minds is episode 4, 5 and 6… we’d be tipsy for 1-3 as the fights were… moderately good, at least story wise. Then the rest we’d be either hyper or drunk and wouldn’t care.

There's this German word called SHADenfreude

But its funny. P.S. Watching "Star wars" I have always wondered 1) where are the air defense means of some developed planets/bases (for example, Jedha planet in "Rogue one", which was under control of Empire, but rebels landed there like if it was their backyard), 2) where are the CCTV cameras in the secret objects, 3) why is the lightsaber fencing looks like the real metal sword fencing. As I understand, the lightsaber is some sort of a laser, so you dont need big hand amplitude/swing to kill/hurt someone, you just need to touch a person. I think a lightsaber fencing should look more like a rapier fencing sport in Olympics or something, where you get points by touching/stabing your opponent.

I Have No Want And I Must Watch

May the 4th be with you.✨

no we have seen that if youre angry or pissed is that u get even stronger in lightsaber force fights (anakin best example) more pissed or angry he is more dangerous he becomes

@@CaysariTapping into the dark side has been shown to make you stronger, but also more wild and aggressive. For example, when Vader threatens to turn Leia and Luke goes ape on him and slices off his arm. There's another good example in clone wars when Obi Wan first fights a revived Maul. Maul taunts him about killing Qui Gon whilst he watched helpless and Obi Wan loses his cool and becomes more aggressive, enabling Maul to break his defence. He even says afterwards "Your rage has unbalanced you. That is not the Jedi way." So I think it goes both ways. You can become stronger, but you'll be more vulnerable to counter attacks by your opponent.

​@@JaimieSch true only shows that rey isnt even doing that i hate disney so much

@@Caysari Don't we all. The sequels really are the gift that keeps on giving. The more you know about Star Wars, the more stupidity you discover.

Rage doesn’t usually make you attack nonexistent people

Don't you see? They're just fighting off the bees together. The Sith bees!

@@Alresu Still would looks better than aiming at nothing At least if the actors is directed to aim for the weapon, we would have lightsaber clash effect.

Its the force bro😎

It doesn't just feel like odd choreography, there are more actual mistakes than usual. We know these actors can execute on the choreography better than this because we've seen them do it before - the problems with earlier fights were mostly from being poorly designed rather than poorly executed. This feels like they were not given the proper amount of training on this fight to execute it cleanly, which would be ridiculous since it's not like the Mouse needs to skimp on the budget.

@@UnreasonableOpinions when was that?

And Disney is so blind they can't see the irony.

@@shinigamimiroku3723 In the word of Darth Sidious: "Ironic"

To be honest, I need to see a full autopsy of Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan (1 and 2), Dooku vs. Yoda, General Grievous vs. Obi-Wan, Palpatine vs. Mace Windu, Yoda vs. Palpatine, AND, most importantly, Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. That last one is probably the best.

@@ConvictedFelon2024 I might do those videos for ya

@@ConvictedFelon2024 and Ashoka Vs Maul in the final season.

@@ConvictedFelon2024I think people overhype the last one a little too much from the choreography perspective. Now don't get me wrong. That fight is amazing. I love it. It's just that it suffers from an obvious problem that arises from a real-life sword-fighting problem - fighting one against two is a bitch. It's a bitch even when you outclass your opponents by a large margin. And when it's by a fairly small margin, as is the case with Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon - well, it's just really tough to portray the combatants giving their all and NOT betray that they're holding back so they don't actually hit the solo guy. As a consequence, that fight does occasionally suffer from the two jedi purposefully aiming for the weapon of Maul, rather than his body, or simply not taking the opportunity to attack when he's open/not looking their way. The choreography is still amazing and, to an untrained eye, may even seem realistic. Unlike, say, in the shitstain of a fight that this video autopsies, where it's obviously bad even if you've never touched a sword in your life. However, if Shad broke the Jinn, Kenobi and Maul fight down as thoroughly as he does in these videos, I think people would see that said fight has plenty of flaws in the choreography. I think if we're talking best Star Wars fights, it's really hard to beat Obi Wan vs Anakin in Episode 3. Aside from the awkward hand-to-hand section and the often-memed part where they just stand for a few seconds spinning their lightsabers around, and a few other mistakes noted in Shad's autopsy, that fight is more or less lightsaber choreography perfection. I don't think we'll ever see better. At least not from an official Star Wars source.

@@Veloziraptor111 I have hours and hours of experience of 2v1 sword fights in Elden Ring multiplayer. I was a sword only fighter. Let me break down what happens. If I just try to fight, 1 guy will engage me and the second guy will wait until I swing my sword. After I swing my sword, there is a brief period where I am defenseless, and the second guy will hit me. The best strategy was as follows. Run away from them LOL. Occasionally I would stop running and perform a quick stab and I would get a free hit. But even after the free hit, I ran LOL. Eventually, they get tired of chasing me and stop. I stop too. The reason this happens is that nobody wants to spend 1 hour just running. After a few minutes of nonstop running and chasing, they stop. At this point, I have to wait until they drop their guard. Or sometimes they simply give up and engage me 1 vs 1. Whichever one happens, I need to kill 1 of them as quickly as possible in a 1 vs 1. Then after that, I have a fair fight with the remaining guy in a 1 vs 1. I rarely lost 2 vs 1 situations. I won quite often because they would always give up and just fight me 1 vs 1. But the most usual result was that the enemies would quit because I would not engage them in a 2 vs 1. So moral of the story? You can't win a 2 vs 1 against competent opponents. You must run away and play mind games. KEY WORD IS COMPETENT OPPONENTS. AGAINST MENTALLY DISABLED AND INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED, EVEN 4 VS 1 VICTORIES ARE POSSIBLE.

(ಠ_ಠ)

They're* supposed to be not "their". But thanks for the info

@@notsogreatsword1607 Thanks for the correction.

Yes! After the second vision, Rey screams "Nooo" and you hear two lightsaber clashes afterwards. Everytime I watch when the second clash happens, it's so noticable that there was no contact.

I will not like this because it has 420 likes but know that it is intended

I both appreciate Shad suffering through this fight, frame by frame, and hate him for reminding me just how bad it is. ;) I only watched this once! And, until now, I had never planned on watching it again.

Y’all messed it up how could you do us like that

​@@based1195 Aged like milk

Ray in general has a lot of qualities you'd see from a dark side user. But you wouldn't know if you only watched the sequels, because they never talk about the dark side except dark side=evil side.

I think that’s what they were going for in this fight tbh. However the rest of the movie is completely wrack

@@e-tan3911 isnt that just because the dark side is about giving in to emotions, and she's a woman

She's a palpatine and he's a solo... Solos shoot first and seduce sith lords' daughters later....

@@e-tan3911 and more importantly, facing dark feelings is character progression and rey is scared of character progression.

Honestly, DIsney don't even need to go that far to watch something they consider "non-canon" but at the very least reflect back on the Prequel. Sure, Daisy and Adam don't have much time compare to Ewan or Hayden to train is a baseline to do something.

@@redace4821 Which just goes to show how poor the decision making was. Even people who hate the prequels for the story and dialogue admit the fights were fun to watch. The prequels established that time spent on fight choreography is never wasted in Star Wars.

I mean you got your wish just had to wait till today.

Every of the new movies made from Disney I don't consider cannon because they are just bad.

@@firestorm5371 was rogue 1 there too? I thought that was okay.

I'm not a baseball player, but from my limited knowledge about that game I can say, without a doubt, that it's not the right way to describe it. You baseball players don't miss every single hit you deliver.

No, this is an embarrassment to baseball players. After all, the intent is to hit.

@@ebonslayer3321 i was being kind and thinking of it as a kid's first time playing at the double A level

I don't think baseball players over extend this much if they miss, I think if the actors were throwing themselves around as hard as they're trying to portray they'd injur their backs.

Right into the boiler room

I remember fans complaining that the prequels made combat too flashy and preferred the hack and slash of the originals. I guess they got what they thought they wanted back in the sequels

I don't know man.. There was lots of random flailing in the prequels notably when Obi Wan and Anakin did a dance-off in the middle of the fight which was so immersion breaking. I did however like some of the use of the force we saw in the Prequels (though the originals did have some cool stuff like Vader doing gestureless telekinesis) I'm cool with using the force to increase your speed and such but there is no reason to reverse grip, spin, and flail. I think the original trilogy did it best. It was not perfect by any means but it was based on Japanese and European swordsmanship despite the Hollywood elements. I will agree that the Sequels are worse than the original trilogy though. The sequels and prequels are just as bad but in different ways.

Aside from grievous who they fucked up completely

@@Subutai_Khan Well, that is one couple second part of by far the most well coreagraphed fight in the saga. And I STRONGLY disagree, the sequels are on a level of bad so far removed from the prequels it's insane. The prequels are heavily flawed, but they at least tell 1 cohesive story and bring interesting ideas to the table

This was so cool to read ngl

Nothing teaches you how to actually fight more than the incentive of "if I don't do it right I'm gonna get the shit beat out of me" I've been hit so hard with sticks and lightsabers that it's left welts for weeks 😂 I learned a lot about hand to hand combat fights with weapons and fights where you have no weapons against a person with a weapon just by growing up with a brother and large backyard

@@killerbug05 Part of my school sword fighting club and it hurts, it really does.

That spin with a feint is an arming sword technique, although martial arts know its analog for a kick attack.

to be fucking honest, even if they hit the saber with a big meaty overhead strike they might get lucky and knock it downwards. with how close it is and how he's holding it it's got 0 leverage and more than likely would just go into his own back n skull

@@zynstein8059 Yeah. Or in this particular case, the blade of that cleaver-sword would just get cut by his lightsaber, which would make it connect above and below the cut with his back, so he was basically blocking nothing. Unless it was made out of a lightsaber-resistant material, anyway.

Also hes moving and not just sitting in an akward position

This is what happens when you don't have a fight choreographer handy, but you have a room stuffed with street dance choreographers... They made do with what they had at the time!!!! Lol. Tha's why it looks like a bunch of cosplay stormtroopers playing Dance Stage MegaMix with a pretty lady and her little emo brother.

Also they are drunk

@@DailyCorvid its really a shame when you have the biggest franches with the biggest studio at the time and can't afford a fight choreographer. What was it like Producer: You know JJ if we cut even half the lens flair budget we could afford a decent choreographer JJ: No *never. cut. the lens flair!*

I actually forgot there was even a fight scene in this Disney Bantha foodoo or whatever it's called. When you found out Luke was just a projected physical hologram and Princess Leah could Marry Poppins through space... and that casino racing animals are more important than a plot, I gave up hope. Even Poe and Flynn, I didn't care for, but they got no love like Chewie's lack of hug.

If it we're an actual baseball fight it would just turn into a fight of who can take the most hits

OT: Ben vs. Vader, two old friends facing off. Leads to the death of Ben. Luke Vs. Vader 1, Luke wants to kill Vader while Vader wants to test Luke. Leads to Luke's hand getting chopped off. Luke vs. Vader 2, Luke fights Vader in defense until his anger controls him. He cuts off Vader's hand revealing that he is similar to Luke.👍 PT: Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon vs. Maul. First encounter with a Sith in a long time. Leads to Qui Gon's death. Anakin, Obi-Wan vs. Dooku. Trying to stop him from escaping. Leads to Anakin's arm getting chopped off. Anakin, Obi-Wan vs. Dooku 2. Attempt to rescue the chancellor. Leads to Dooku's death. Obi-Wan vs. Grievous. Attempt to end the war. Leads to Grievous' death. Windu vs. Palpatine, Windu's attempt to stop the Sith. Indirectly leads to Windu's death. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. Brother vs. Brother. Attempt to stop the Sith from rising. Leads to Anakin getting his limbs chopped off and burned.👍 ST: Rey, Finn, vs. Kylo....Kylo wants Luke's lightsaber? Finn gets "injured". Kylo gets a cut on his eye. Rey vs. Kylo. Rey is mad that Kylo smashed her toy. Kylo wants to kill her I think? I guess leads to Leia's death. Kylo becomes good for no reason.👎

The problem with the whole movie is that it's completely useless. JJ spent so much time trying to fix the issues Last Jedi made that he didn't take anytime to make an actual movie.

@@nathank2289 Except that nothing he did solved any of the issues from TLJ, but instead just made even worse of a mess.

@@MravacKid Disney Star Wars in a nutshell

@@MravacKid I mean there was no fixing it unless they made it all a dream or hallucination by one of the characters. People would still be mad. Why Disney thought it was a good idea to bring a NEW director and writer for the MIDDLE movie of a trilogy is idiotic beyond belief and goes against any sort of common sense. You don't change creatives in the middle of a franchise. Not only that but Rian Johnson also didn't even have anything major under his belt. He was basically fresh out of film school. He did ONE half-decent movie in Looper. But even that wasn't good if you started asking questions.

Me too. Honestly this is way worse than the throne room fight. At least that had some fancy camera work that at least hid the messy choreography upon first viewing. This is just slow, clunky, and it feels like both characters are holding back when neither has a reason too. The spins and the overswings were overtly egregious here and they weren’t channeled immediately into offense or defense like in the prequels. The only fight that’s worse is the one against the Knights of Ren later in the movie when they just swing at Kylo’s sword and not his body and he does a terrible flip that got Anakin’s limbs cut off in ROTS

solid comment but you censored 'god' so im gonna have to deduct points for that

@@snowcat9308 yeah what is up with that lmao

​@Snow Cat Deduct points? Bro, there could be a religious or respective reason behind that

@@sweetdreams1678who gives a fuck, god’s not real

That is an excellent point

Yeah, I'd like to see a lightsaber fight done by Olympic epee experts. Would need to be in slow motion to follow they're so fast.

A real lightsaber duel will look more like fencing rather than a swordfight. There is no point in using a lightsaber 2h. It just restricts and slow down your movements/attacks

It does not slow down your movement if you have ever held a longsword before. With two hands manipulating a weapon instead of one the weapon is actually faster. There are just certain movements that you can't do with two hands and vice versa. Many lightsabers seem short enough to justify one handed over two-handed use though so it would depend on how they feel in the hand. Some are long enough for two-handed use within katana or longsword lengths. FYI fencing is just another term for sword fighting or fighting with hand weapons and polearms. You fence with a spear just as you fence with a smallsword or longsword. The term you are looking for is Olympic fencing or FIE.

@@Subutai_Khan oh yea those type of "fencing" is what im talking about. Almost too quick for the eyes. Imagine how deadly it wouldve been with lightsabers. And your point about longswords, i believe, is mainly due to the weight. Since lightsabers are practically weightless, it will be like holding a twig with 2 hands. If we ignore the use of 'the force' for balance, holding the saber on 1h and using the other hand for balance will be the best option imo. I also believe that 1h reach/thrust is longer than 2h. Which is an imp factor.

In universe there's literally only two reasons I can think of as to why she would attack THAT far off the target. A: She's so mad she can't think straight and is literally forcing her brain to hallucinate or B: She's so damn drunk she can't see straight cuz she's hallucinating.

@@willaverynerdyclarinetist6131 or the viewer had to get so drunk to watch the movie that the viewer is hallucinating?

I think you mean FUCKING WOMBAT scenes

i think the maul v ashoka fight in the clone wars achieves this to near perfection

Actually, if the full force (pun intended) of Jedi powers were used, there would be no need to use lightsabers at all. A powerful Jedi could just use Force Crush to collapse the soft brains of his opponents within their skulls and its game over in 1 sec.

@@angmohnize-to-atasify same argument as "why don't they just turn off the other persons lightsaber with the force ?" one of the first force abilities most Jedi and Sith learn is a "Force shield" that prevents other force users from doing stuff with the force, it's obviously an excuse but better than nothing.

​@@youraverageteaenjoyer. I don't think it's an excuse. I mean, the way the games do it, you learn a specific "spell" to counter Force "spells" generally, is kind of an excuse for gameplay mechanics. But if both fighters had, say, telekinetics and blades, I suppose they would try to push at each other's telekinetic power at the same time as they were trying to strike each other with their blades. Then they would try to trip each other up, so either the opponent's telekinetic defense would slip and you could crush them, or their blade defense would slip and you could stab them. We saw it in ep. 3 with Yoda and Dooku first seeing if either could defeat the other with the Force (well, Dooku started and Yoda being the pacifist mostly defended) and as that didn't solve it, turned to lightsabers. When Force-users fight with sabers, they channel the Force into their bodies to enhance their saber-fighting abilities, so whenever they're raising their Force powers to directly attack the enemy through, say, lightning or push, they're lowering their blade defense. May be a good move if you have an opening for it, or if you fail you might create the opening that'll end you.

Going by the Darth Bane trilogy trhey could go crazy with it so much. The speed would be incredible by using the force.

My sentiments exactly

ooooo yes do this

Ray Park did the maul mo cap

Heard that they had to slow it down cuz the mo-cap actors were moving too fast

Oh, yes, I’d love an analysis of that fight scene too!

@@onyx_gabriel I think they asked the actors to slow down so the camera could properly catch their movements for animation. But later they sped it up to a normal sleed for an animated show

In rumble in the bronx JC spent eight hours on a jump through ladder rungs which took a grand total of half a second of screen time. I love that man.

The best example I can think of to illustrate this is the "action" scene Liam Neeson jumping over a fence in twenty different cuts to disguise the fact that they literally couldn't get him to do it, vs the Meals on Wheels fight with most of the scene being long takes of wide shots

I love Jackie Chan. If we get a Fight scene autopsy on the Legend of Drunken Master fight between him and Lau-Kar Leung under the train my life will be complete

@@chrisbarnes3660 He has so many great fights besides. I'd actually like to see his sword fight from Shanghai Knights appear get analyzed at some point, because Aidan Gillen really seemed like an overly confident expert as he was fighting there. Exactly as he was supposed to be, that confidence is what got him killed

It's not supposed to be a guard position, but a deflection which makes it so much dumber cause he did it 5 seconds before the attack actually happened.

Much worse. At least when Kylo moonwalked into a foe, his foe died. It was an idiot savant's victory but a victory nonetheless. The static back crouch block maneuver should have ended with someone getting killed yet the cringe prolonged.

It reminds me of a dumber, worse version of the Brynhildr stance that Leo Whitefang uses, but that made sense considering Leo is a showboater and also cannot block in that stance giving it a lot of risk

It's even worse since he set the guard long before the attack. If it had been a last second thing against a flanking attacker it would make more sense. Alas, he just set up a target for the dude to aim at.

I was expecting a downward strike and thought, corny because he wouldn't have leverage to keep the lightsaber from being forced into his back and skull, but it could almost sorta make sense if a couple Rens strike at the same time. But this is worse because the strike "deflected" wasn't going to hit anything, it was just the tip making contact when the strike should have hit Ben's stomach and probably hit the lightsaber from underneath if anything

Shows you how much they cared... bs waste of a movie

@@rockinHurley777 totally agree the whole film felt like a dumpster fire and the underlying tone was "who gives a crap?"

OR they could have just edited the light saber blades into the right places in post edit... :P

@@brianp6859 "sOmehOw PaLpAtInE rEtOuRnEd." What?!

@@brianp6859 "this series is so beloved we'll all be millionaires regardless, why put effort in?"

It confirmed the worst!!!

@@Aelxi somehow Palpatine returned.

Meticulous analysis, logic… secrets only medieval swordsmen knew!

Considering that he was trained by the best, meaning someone like the red guards in TLJ, its no wonder that he sucks. Everyone just sucks.

Based on onscreen feats, Jar Jar Binks would make Kylo Ren his bitch.

@@gameragodzilla I mean jarjar mind tricked the entire republic council into electing palpatine.

They might as well just be using dead hilts in that case.

That does not help the case for this duel

@@romancapulus5577 He never said it did.

So the actors would just have to pretend that their blades connected and hope it looked believable? That sounds absolutely insufferable.

Okay, I could understand that if they were constantly stabbing or having more of a fencing-like fighting style. Clearly, that’s not what they were going for, and as such, the shorter blades are of no help.

Can you even hurt someone with prop swords that they are using? Those led swords that they use for lighting? Cause I really doubt they can. Props used in prequels were more dangerous

@@danzansandeev6033 This is like asking if you can hurt someone with your fist. Hit someone hard enough with any object and you can hurt then pretty bad.

@@mr_h831 that’s why you train for it? Isn’t that what actors supposed to do? Ewan and Heiden did it.

@@danzansandeev6033 As I said, times have changed. During the prequels even with all that training people were expected to eventually hit eachother. And there really wasnt any "training" they had a choreographer direct them, the actors themselves didnt really have any swords man training. Ray park and Christopher lee are the few exceptions. What they've got here is a choreographer who was either held back by the people there or was too afraid to let the actors injure themselves.

Something that everyone missed (and I truly mean everyone) is that the film tries to make a point about neither of them being a jedi or a sith and trying to imply that both share a grey space between the two things. In theory, that's why Rey isn't as righteous as she should and why Kylo isn't as evil as he wants. As you may notice, it doesn't work at all and almost anyone simply ends up thinking that Rey is a bad Jedi and Kylo a bad sith, because that's what the film ends up showing us.

@@garethvila5108 agree, and I'd go one step further and point out that you don't even need to be a Sith or Jedi to be a force user or use a lightsaber. A lot of people forget that the Jedi was a religious order that you had to join and follow the doctrine. The Sith was smaller scale, with fewer rules, and really more like a cult. And I totally understand why people expect force users to be one of those two options, because we barely been shown anyone using the force without them being a member of one or the other. Which is something we really need to see more of.

Darth Maul wasn't exactly burning with hatred and fury, he doesn't do anything I would call a dirty trick and he remains fairly calm throughout the fight. In fact, after gutting Qui-Gon, he almost acts like it meant nothing to him and it's Obi-Wan that's burning with fury.

@@Edax_Royeaux The dual Saber could be considered a dirty trick, also he takes joy in causing pain. Not entirely fury, but a trained hatred.

Way to much thought being put into this. The reason Rey is suddenly angry in the movie is a reaction to everyone complaining she was "to perfect and a Mary Sue" in the last two movies. Disney overcorrected to repair the Last Jedi damage, so suddenly Rey has trouble with training and loses control in fights. Even though she has no trouble at all in the last two movies. (she still swims and sails great for someone who has never seen water though)

“I mean, it’ll probably just go over his head or something, but that’ll make him laugh harder.”

Ah yes

Ooh, an old classic like that would be a great palate cleanser.

i second this motion

I'd love for either Shad, Skall, or (maybe best of all) Matt(ScolaGladiatoria) to do an analysis of sword fights from the entire Pirates of The Caribbean movie series.

@@RaptorTroll360 a collab

They could have gone on you tube and find half a dozen people who'd have done a better job in ten seconds

It's as though there was either no choreographer or the actors simply decided whatever they did on the day would be good enough. OR Abrams just thought 'It's Star Wars! The sheep will eat whatever shit we give them and think it's amazing!'

Ooohh so nostalgic; i'd love to see that one - though I can't imagine it was very practical in terms of movements.

@@lewisroach8723 Costuming probably also made it additionally challenging.

I'm on board with this idea

Fandom menace

@@rockinHurley777 Yeah I noticed it , was distracted when I wrote it the first time. dammed cats. And damn I forgot just how really bad this was.

My only defence of the rise of skywalker, and i did my best to think up a good defence of the rise of skywalker so i could have a full, proper, and sound critique of it, is that Rian Johnson left JJ in such a shit position for the rise of skywalker that it was fundamentally impossible for JJ to make a good film out of it. Main villans killed off and turned into a love intrest, first order a laughing stock, possibility of resistance being effective nonexistent, dozens of loose ends from both the first and second movie's, everything was fucked. And he still didn't do anything even close to as good as he could have done with the film. Which is almost an achievement.

@@Santisima_Trinidad Colin Trevarrow had a half decent idea on how to follow up episode 8. Then he got fired...

@@harlannguyen4048 dammit Disney.

This 100% I just left a comment about this fight, Obi Wan won only because he had plot armor

He did something similar in a deleted scene in the clone wars animated tv show.

Kenobi was on the defensive the entire time, only taking the opportunity to cut a hand off when grievous made a mistake, Kenobi was literally the best defensive duelist in probably the entirety of star wars, that's why mace says that Kenobi is the only one who could defeat grievous, and also you have to remember that jedi have extremely enhanced reflexes and can almost predict how their opponent will move next in a way, so as soon as grievous does try to trick Kenobi he would sense it, pull back, and block the incoming strike, we do see him dodging and keeping his saber very close to his chest as to not overextend and leave himself vulnerable, he also keeps his distance the entire fight, close enough to quickly strike at one of grievous' hands, but far enough away so that grievous cant exploit his numerical advantage by just reaching around and stabbing him. Although I do admit there are some parts where you do have to suspend your disbelief a bit

the fight was short and kenobi was on the defensive all the time and used slight stabs to disarm him and the force to push him away, I would have liked a longer fight but the creators transformed Griveous into a coward (so that he wasnt an op lol). I dont know man, I enjoyed the fight even though it could have been better, and the build up gave us the greatest meme in movie history lol. Fond memories of seeing it.

@@Battyj agreed

The phantom apprentice reaction 🤔🙂

I fully agree we need to see it

Which fight do you mean (there are several big ones)?

@@daedalus5253 I would assume the one in question opens with ". . .I hate to kill you."

Jill Bearup did a great analysis of the cliffside fight! She doesn't break it down frame-by-frame (or even move-by-move, because as she points out, there are way too many moves to do that), but I still highly recommend it!

Nick Gillard did the lightsaber duels for the prequels. He did not return for the sequels.

@@randalthevandal3835 don't remember the name of the fight coordinator, but i know he was the same guy who did 'the eternals' as well...

@@petriew2018 Mike Lambert But Eternals didn't turn out that bad, at least it show proper extraordinary powerhouse clashing, tRoS is just...terrible.

But also keep in mind the only reason you even heard about this supposed "harassment" was because it was a fabricated outrage created by Disney to shift publics attention away from their own failures. Hear me out: The timing was just too big of a coincidence for it to be true. it was mighty convenient for them. Just think about it. Before it happened the whole internet was buzzing about the failure of Disney star wars, everyone was sharing pictures of empty theaters at the premiere of Rogue One. Every article was about fans being so sick of Disney trilogy that now they refusing to see the next movie as a protest. It was really hurting their ticket sells. And SUDDENLY the next day every Disney owned "journalist" started talking about actors from the previous movies getting "harassed" by "toxic SW fans". Funny thing is, there was not a single article about it until Rogue One was getting a bad publicity. They didn't had a single screenshot of proof either (which is weird, usually they do). Suddenly the narrative was flipped and not liking Disney SW meant you are "toxic, racist, sexist", every buzzword they could come up with. Why were they harassed NOW? You wanna tell me some angry fans only started harassing them YEARS after the original premiere? That's not how internet outrage works. It does not grow over time, internet has a short attention span. The best part is - even the"harassed" actress later admitted that she removed her accounts not because of harassment, but because it was part of her contract. She never liked social media but she had to create it to promote the movies. She removed it when the deal ended. And here me out - it's the internet. I didn't say they didn't receive some mean comments, ok? Everyone gets mean comments and even death threats made by some dumb 12 year olds. You don't even have to be a celebrity to experience that. We all been there. We just ignore it cause we know those are dumb and immature kids. The only difference you are expecting it for free. Now imagine you are getting payed MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to say some lines in a movie. Would you refuse that job simply just because of some mean tweets? Ofc you wouldn't... I can bet literally every single person on earth would agree to take that deal even for a fraction of that price. Every single person would LOVE to be "harassed by internet comments" in exchange for millions of dollars. Imagine getting 10k every time someone insults you online. So long story short - you could "fabricate" "harassment" stories about literally every single celebrity that even existed. Cause literally every one of them is experiencing that ar some level (and it sucks, but that's part of the job, and everyone would still love having that job). But Disney could focus your attention to any actress and you would have the same angry reaction. It was all about manipulating the masses, about shifting your attention away, shifting the blame. You heard that story not because Disney cared, they wanted to sell more tickets. So Disney had to present themselves as "victims of abuse", it's the oldest trick in the book, they do it all the time and it's disgusting. The fact that every single of those articles was made by Disney employees should be enough of a proof, everything can be traced back to them. It was an coordinated attack It happens all the time when it comes to politics, but it happens with movies and huge corporations as well

@@redace4821 the worst rated/only rotten tomato MCU movie didn't turn out bad? Huh?

Seeing how they had two directors and each one changed the other one's plots I'm inclined to believe that they also had a couple of choreographers contradicting each other.

Adam Driver seems like he would be awesomely choreographed if done right, he could could probably easily do it, but these fight scene producers don't care about quality, they don't care about the coolness of fights, they throw logic out the window because reasons I guess.

@@ancapgrandscribe9546 It seemed that he knew the choreography and was doing his part, Daisy just hadn’t practiced and went for all the wrong body parts so it looked ridiculous.

@@justthinkingoutloud2538 That's for sure, but he made flops as well, but that's more or less the choreographers fault. I believe Driver has much better potential in a scene like this then what they forced him to do.

That fight scene really convinced me that Rey should have been the “sith”. Kylo was always calm and collected during fights, and Rey is the embodiment of rage.

Liam Neeson and Alec Guinness are the best Jedi actors in the series.

Darth Maul was also calm during the fight.

Yeah i would find this interesting as well!

Joke?

Joke?

@@grognakthedestroyerattorne3211 nope, truth. Rey and Kylo, lore wise, have no real skills compared to Luke, who didn’t have the finesse of Anakin.

@@theoneaboveall4533 what about the throne room fight? If they had no skill, how did they win?

@@rmdavidov plot armour lmfao

And swinging at empty space?

@@inarencommander4663 maybe the empty space insulted her mother, who am I to tell...

If she's a beginner making beginner's mistakes then wtf does that make Kylo?

@@joshuaa7266 a simp.

I am so glad McMuffin has become such a universal term for that plot device xD

I would love that, although I feel like we should first just ask for decent fight scenes from Disney before asking them to recreate some of the best fight scenes in Star Wars media (seriously though why are the fight scenes so good when the game isn’t really that massive)

They used props. Ones that even lit up, to help give a glow on the surroundings. But not full length ones. Still, that's no excuse for the bad choreography... if anything, it makes it even harder to excuse.

@@khandimahn9687 Right? Fully-CG lightsabers could at least have had the excuse of trying to edit around choreography. I remember some behind-the-scenes stuff with the prequels had them using full-sized props. Made the scenes a whole lot better because their lightsabers didn't just pass through each other when you looked closely.

Yes please

That would be cool

How about the fight scene in Tangled as well? You know the fight between Flynn against the guards and Maximus.

I have heard that that Princess Bride scene is actually very well done and both actors had training in fencing.

That’s very dumb. How do you block with a weapon where it can just pass through?

Apparently electrons stick to each other, which may explain why lightssbers stick.

@@Myth_or_Mystery76 they have shield around them, that is how the plasma is contained

More thought than the writer put in.

@@Aconspiracyofravens1 It's magnets son.

As a major star wars fan I hated it, but even if I took away the insults to earlier stories away, it was still bad. Fights were dumb, the new ships looked older than the prequel's ships, and Finn learned how to fly while unconscious between movies. Edit: Saw 9 in theaters, it was just incredibly dull. 8 was at least interesting in an insulting way.

Jay Exci: Shad, you're swordsman. How practical is that?" Critical Drinker: "How practical is moonwalking in medieval warfare?"

Yeah, very foil fencing like, but there is one spin that Ben Kenobi does that is pretty bad

@@soulsuckingginger7535 Yeah, I've spent years defending that fight, but that spin is just really bad. But you know... It's 1977, Alec Guinnes is pretty old, the original lightsaber props were heavy, they had a power cord (they actually lit up on set), it's no surprise that he couldn't do it better, they just wanted some sparkle in there. It's not good, but A+ for trying

Or better yet a look at SC 38 Re-imagined.

@@ToaCody1 so so good

The slow spin attack…

But that would require good writing.

At this point it was too late, Rey had already beaten Kylo before with zero training even after a trained soldier (Finn) had lost to him

Yeah, that one was frankly awful.