You forgot the part where K'sante being a hyper mobile true damage bruiser disguised as a tank made him impossible to balance and got gutted so bad because of pro play he became unplayable in soloq within a month of release. Meanwhile shen barely ever gets touched and is almost always a solid pick because he has a strong identity and knows what he is unlike K'sante who was another 200 years champ trying to do everything all at once. I wish riot would respect the boundries they have themselves put in place regarding roles and archetypes in the game. Tanks are supposed to trade damage for durability and cc, lets make K'sante who also deals more true damage than a fighter. Enchanters are supposed to be high priority targets who are mechanically easy but gated mostly by careful positioning, lets make yuumi who completely ignores positioning. Juggernauts are meant to be giga strong in melee but have limited mobility? Lets add stridebreaker into the game with a dash completely removing their one weakness. Adc's and skirmishers meant to be high damage but squishy? lets add shieldbow cause why the fuck not. And yes most of these things get addressed via nerfs eventually but my point is that its so blatantly obvious these things dont work before they are even implemented they shouldnt have to literally break the game for several patches until they get nerfed to the point of being unplayable because there is no way for them to exist in a balanced state. Wish riot would just respect the limitations of roles in the game and design within them instead of trying to have every new champ do everything and end up with more balance nightmares.

@@popelipo6281 that's a good point

@@popelipo6281 I'm 99% sure that they make plenty of "mistakes" knowingly. It helps the whole abusive relationship they have with their playerbase.

@@popelipo6281 Buying items to cover weaknesses, like old stridebreaker, is fine. The issue comes from the fact that riot also gives some of these items 4 strong stats that are all gold efficient instead of making it a blink dagger situation where you're paying a premium, all lump sum, just to cover that big weakness. If a item that gives a dash is a part of someone's natural big path it should give them minimal if any stats and you should have to save up a boatload for it, not be able to pay it out in 350 gold increments of steadily increasing power. Riot's gold and item design philosophy is terrible and even smite, the game directly inspired by LoL that once upon a time copied their items 1 for 1, does it better now. They're entirely hypocritical on balance between roles and the sheer existence of singular champions ensures that certain classes of item can never be even close to balanced. How can you buff ADC items when yasuo exists and will kill top/mid lane with his 4 passives? How can you ever balance tanks vs bruisers when bruiser items always give them multiple stats they unilaterally want while tanks always have to eat shit on meh effects or stats because resistances might as well not exist if you can't push past 400. And the few items that are good on tanks are also great on bruisers. Its incredibly obvious that riot doesn't have a consensus on design and balance; there isn't any one guy who makes all the calls at the end of the day its a team of dudes who don't even talk to one another each balancing in their own personal vacuum with different philosophies. They need an Icefrog, one guy who's in charge of the whole shebang and everyone has to report their ideas and changes to before they even touch PBE. Instead they have a dozen different guys who are getting corporate commands from higher up giving them generic orders of "buff X champion for general play" and they have to figure it out from there without consulting anybody else.

@@Skagwatcher tanks can never exist in a balanced healthy spot in league. They will either be just weak juggernauts or we have a situation where a 600 armor malphite is unkillable and deletes squishies with one ability rotation. Every single time tanks have been strong and we have been in a tank meta it has been some of the worst and most hated metas ever. The perfect example is back in like 2017 or something with the iconic clip from a pro game where Hauntzer on nautilus eats 31 consecutive towershots under the enemy nexus and lives.

TBF in the early s6 Shen was still unkillable. Thing started to change in s7 with the lethality update.

@@IronKurone That was the last true tank meta tbf, it wasn't just Shen that was unkillable. That was the last time Tank meant tank, where tanks were truly unkillable and dealt half the damage they do now. Today I died in just under 5 seconds to a Zeri as Ornn, we were both full build I had 5.5k hp and 419 armor and just got blown the fuck up by a champion that has zero tank killing abilities nor kraken. Tank meta nowadays means that bruisers abuse the fck out of tank items. Not that tanks are in any way viable.

same here too but i might be the only guy on this planet who hates the shen rework. dropped him entirely. sonetime i play him on aram only using his ult or dash.

my best support game was still Shen, 4/4/56

@@Rokxis Old Shen Q was really nice to have

they seriously need more VO updates like with Nidalee and Varus, 2 per year just doesn't feel enough when there's a total of 160+ champs and half of them having less than 3mins of dialogues. If they ever brought Keith back for an updated Shen VO with the current state of Ionia I would be so happy

@@dioxide39 Thing is, the Varus and Nidalee VO updates are pure passion projects that were never planned in the grand scheme of things, so sadly it's already a miracle we're getting those.

Meanwhile Shen's VA in genshin: "Asmonthus wine..."

​@@Aganie. wait, Shen va voices Zhongli?

@@weaboo101 yea

[redacted] Shen!

New skill level? Old Shen was much harder to play than this. New Shen is pretty easy. Old Shen was hard or very hard.

You know when the opposite happens? It had happened and makes people quite angry because that's the issue with Mordekaiser. No, he did not lost its identity harder than Aatrox, he became a borderline brainless champ i was able to learn in a singular game of normals, and while bad, is not worse than becoming something completely different.

@@HeavenlyWarrior you do not know what you are talking about then.

@@philipposmalliaris4623 Yes I do because I played more the old Shen than the new Shen. The old Shen, you could heal yourself and allies and that was tricky to use effectively, it was extremely hard to push a lane and also farm, the E didn't do any damage whatsoever, , W didn't create an AOE zone like jax E to avoid attacks, it was a simple shield. The only thing easier about the old Shen was his ult because he shielded himself as well when activated. The new Shen is a noobs champ, simple to use and very straight foward. The new Shen is only harder to learn but much easier to master.

@@HeavenlyWarrior New shen has a way higher skill ceiling.

He can't adc, that's for sure. He can do everything else though. It's just like Leona and Nautilus and the old Alistar. The old Alistar was one of the best champions in the game until he was completely destroyed by the rework/ultra nerf.

@HeavenlyWarrior put a shen main in the adc role, and they will make it work. What are the issues with shen adc really ? Too much poke = shen has enough sustain and damage mitigation. Low cs = shen operates well at low cs. On top of that, shen's strong early game will guarantee early game dragons. Shen ult means you can quick join any fight even if you don't have prio. Does he deal damage ? His empowered Q deals massive damage and with ghost ignite he can 1v1 legitimate adcs(let alone heartsteel). The presence of a support in lane makes shen stronger because his abilities are designed to be selfless. Only downside is that he doesn't melt tanks, problem solved by having your team adapt. Have a Yi or trist mid on your team for example.

@@mido3071 Shen is melee. What are you talking about!? He can't adc! The only melee champion sometimes some "noob" play as ADC is yasuo because despite being melee he has ranged abilities and uses the same items as ADC.

@HeavenlyWarrior I'm not saying he can adc in challenger. But try him in low elo. Doesn't matter if you are melee, you can make it work. I like how you ignored everything I said just to say he was melee, lol.

@@mido3071 Of course, melee champs are not ADC's so he can't adc. There are extremely good players in low elo, it depends on the match. Only in iron you find all the scum.

Yes agreed

you know what you say my friend, i'd not change a thing from this period. was pure amusement

They removed a lot of sustain in favor of damage. He needed a real weakness. If you really want sustain you can always rush Bork in s13 and delay mythic

YES! I really miss that ability.

@@johnnymac6242 what an actual bronze would build :)

@n4z p12 shen is item independent, he can build almost anything. The only thing that matters is your gamesense, positioning and mechanics. Go watch any Xpetu video. I said to build BotRK bc it provides good stats for Shen IF YOU WANTED SUSTAIN. Learn to read. You're probably a gold player with good mechanics and zero gamesense the way u came in with that bronze insult tho.

​@@johnnymac6242 you're actually so funny. The dude is a freakin shen one trick youtuber. Ofc he's gonna do crazy sh*t builds for content. The only way to play him is TANK (divine sunderer and titanic hydra being the offensive option, and NOT BORK). If you're building "anything", then you're not gonna accomplish what you should be doing, which is frontlining. Smh

Wonderhoy moment

​@@CryoBeat WONDERHOOOOOY!!! 💖💖

New shen sucks donkey hangers.

Well they buffed (a loit) his own health regen and regen per level, so there's that... kinda

Although the base regen was changed back to pre-rework levels a few months after the rework.