It's like 4 seasons of built up anger finally projecting out. That scene had me so gripped!! Hope Sarah and Matthew get their well deserved Emmys.

Tom did offer himself up, but only because he thought he was on the chopping block already. It’s sad that he didn’t see that Shiv was pleading for him. Then again, she never told him either because lord forbid shiv show anything that resembled caring.

Gerri knows her worth lol

I’d say the difference between Tom and Shiv in the fight, is while they are both similar people at the end of the day. Self interested, narcissistic, etc. Tom was speaking what he believed was the truth from what he saw. It was opinions he had been suppressing for awhile, whereas Shiv argued as a Sophist. Saying whatever she could so she wasn’t the loser, so that she wasn’t hurt the most. I’d say its the performances that sold me on this opinion, that Shiv’s points (while correct sometimes) were made on the fly, and Tom had been harboring his for awhile wondering if he should say them.

I really think Gerri is disappointed by Roman. He already fired her once for his dad and then he had the audacity to do it again but while insulting her saying she isn't good at her job. I understand why Gerri is saying fuck off at this point, I think she really thought he could do better

It felt reaaaaaaally weird how easy Ebba gave Roman and Kendall so much critical information

I dont think Toms statement is consciously 'rewriting history', he brought up the idea of him going to prison just to see how against it his wife would be, only for her to tacitly imply she thinks its a pretty good idea. This followed by, as you said, Tom not seeing Shiv gunning for him and even thinking she was working against him, and you've got one big miscommunicatory disaster. At least that was my reading from what I can remember, and its also probably what you mean. But I dont remember thinking Tom was offering himself up because he wanted to be helpful of 'servile', but rather that he was simply fishing for a response which might prove his wife actually loved him. So in his eyes, she was going to let him go to prison, because she barely even tried to stop the opposite from happening, again, from his pov. Lemme know if this is off.

Yes, #TeamTomandShiv love each other. My hope is that they come to this realization and leave Royco to raise their child and TRY to be happy.

Your balanced and nuanced breakdown of shiv/tom's fight has gained you a subscriber. Keep it coming!

I was loving Tom tearing into Shiv

There was a conversation between Tom, Shiv, and Scott around the middle of the episode about the Gojo acquisition, and who would remain in the company. Apparently, Scott heard Tom was "going somewhere else" and told him. Tom got very affected because he doesn't want to loose his paycheck. I think that was tom's real trigger for the fight with Shiv.

I was deadset Tom was going to jump off that balcony

Thanks for linking those two fights between Tom and Shiv

Great video, awesome editing work!

I was kind of dreading hearing your take on the Tom/Shiv fight because overwhelming online discourse seems to act like Tom is a saint and that shiv was the only bad guy in the relationship as if they weren't both using eachother to their own gains so I was really happy that you didnt just straight up show Tom as a poor victim of Shiv. also, I didnt realize it initially but I really miss brian cox idk i miss hearing him yell at everyone😂 would be really interested in seeing a seperate video on your take on Tom and Shiv's relationship

Shiv loves Tom and treats tom in the same way that Tom treats Gregg.

It’s been a few weeks that we haven’t heard from Kerry, and I can’t help to wonder if she will show up in the funeral episode 🙈

Wouldn't surprise me if the India discovery is a hoax to make Kendall look bad. Shiv is horrible, she only cares about herself and thinks she's smarter than she actually is. Shiv has always wanted to be in control but she's not smart enough to gain control on her own, Tom is easy to control and that's why Shiv stayed with him but now Tom is done with it.

We've watched Shiv belittling Tom for 4 seasons, seeing how it all builds up in Tom and then when he finally vents she does the old bully technique "I thought you wanted me to pick on you". We see Shiv is hurt about what Tom says and like so many others just puts on her armor ready for battle. What I like about their relationship is that it is so realistic. Tom should have talked about these things early and non-confrontal like any therapist would say, but that's not how we humans work. So Tom keeps it in with the vague hope that she'll change all by herself, then when she doesn't (why would she, Tom hasn't communicated this with her) he feels betrayed and we get S3 finale. Finally he lets it all out and Shiv has never heard this side from him, she assumed he was fine with it since he didn't say anything. We are a species with both the communication of energy like other animals, but we are cursly blessed/ blessedly cursed with spoke language, and therefore we can go years masking our true emotions with our spoken language. Tbf, Tom and Shiv should have done some like psychedelic retreat, just talking would never work with them.

I feel bad for both and I dont at the same time. Both of them went into the marriage with their own agendas. Both of them had the opportunity to call the marriage off but found the convenience of what that brought too good to pass up. Shiv was getting a lackey and Tom, status. He knew she was broken and she knew he wanted more so they both took advantage of those things. They placated each other to get what they wanted. Shiv set the tone their wedding night and slept with someone else after but couldn't take it when she was confronted with the prospect of Tom doing it. She only wanted it to happen on her terms. Knowing this, instead of Tom at the end of season 2 leaving her, he saw the opportunity to jockey for position when Logan looked to him for input in season 3. He also schemed so he would have had assurances in case he went to jail. They used each other and now it's all out there.

your breakdowns are the best

Greg and oskar - was that another greg logan scene where oskar is initiating him? - I think maybe, since he was dancing with ebba so that means she accepts him and the next test would be if he has thick skin - I think it was a test he passed again and he's saying he thinks they hate him but I think he knows better and isn't telling Tom the truth when he says he's team kenro - he's team who ever wins/always playing all sides, but like Oskar said - he's a butcher with a smile.

It’s funny that Willa gets so much animosity from the fans for being with Connor for money, while this is the exact same thing Tom has been doing with Shiv the whole time. He’s with her for money and status but somehow he’s like a fan favorite character.

I never understood why Conner who had already decided to run didn’t have a speechwriter on his team to write MO’s eulogy.

another theory - what if mattison doesn't actually intend on buying waystar and is really using them to negotiate a deal with another company? I think he has a big play happening and maybe this is all a distraction and game where he leaves them all fucked up. so in feb ebba is either in charge of another company or she's leaving with her golden parachute - either way that seemed like misdirect like she was saying something bad would happen but really it's prob something else.

My wife thinks Ebba is a plant. That it's all a ruse... there is no harrassment. There may be no "India numbers". It's entirely possible that Shiv was played. Mattson knows she's not that bright, and he appealed to her vanity and ambition, to use her as a wedge against her brothers. The show is telling us, over and over, that the foursome are actually really bad business people. They think they're hot, but they're fundamentally clueless and destructive.

Re Shiv and Tom... I think they were being almost entirely honest in their fight. Fom Tom's perspective, he truly believed Shiv had thrown him to the wolves. She did very little to convince him otherwise. Why? Power. All the children (except for Conor) use uncertainty as a weapon over people, including their loved ones. They're mercurial and cruel by nature, and by design. Tom love/hates Shiv, in spite of himself. He knows what she's about. But Shiv is his meal ticket, and Tom's version of romantic love involves nice shirts and watches and fine mansions. But Shiv does not love Tom. She doesn't even seem to really like him. (It's hard to genuinely like another person if you don't like yourself.) I think that Shiv fears that Tom -- and others -- won't give her approval. And she doesn't need to keep that approval. It's a weapon. Notice how she repeateedly throws his back in his face? For Shiv, "love" is a weapon. When Shiv doesn't get and control approval/status, we get the genuine Sad Shiv. She's upset because she knows that the things Tom said about her are true. Shiv is a child. All four of the children are just that: children. They're essentially trust-fund kids, still trying to show daddy that they're worthy, even though they all secretly hate daddy.

Oscar Lemoncloak 😂 maybe the Brotherhood and the Hound will make an appearance

oh man i hope the show ends with Greg saying goodbye to all the viewers.

Matsson is cold, he's devious, and he doesn't even trust his own men. The reason he asked, "Oskar or Ebba??" is bc he planted fake stories with THEM, just like he planted the fake blood story with Shiv. This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Matsson looks comically horrified, then laughs. He's tricked both Kendall AND Ebba into revealing their hands.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! etc, etc, and so on, and so on... And thanks for helping me smoke out Ebba. She's a tough one to crack. I really thought it was Oskar!" Anything Ebba or Oskar try to "reveal" about Mattson will be rendered null by all the b.s. he's fed them so no one will ever believe them.

I am team Tom. Shiv used Tom to her disposal. Tom loves Shiv but was always put 2nd to Logan. As dysfunctional as the dynamic is, Tom is rational for the most part, not emotionally damaged by the first gen of the Roy business. Shiv is doing exactly what Tom did in season 3, undermining and backstabbing. Tom is realizing and becoming his own person outside of Logan and Shiv.

Tom is such a wuss that he’s like “MAYBE” you shouldn’t be a mother. Sad!

Tom is such a liar!!😢

Bridge the gap!

Gerri doesn't care about Roman anymore.

Look up Bonzo goes to Bitburg, Reagan was 100% called Bonzo. Good catch.

Definitely one of the better takes on this fight, since you actually looked back on their previous actions, as well as the context, rather than simply taking their words at face value.

Conner and Willa have the healthiest marriage in the show. At least they get each other's input and have a level of respect.

Are the India numbers truly shaky? If I were Ebba, even if I were so horribly angry with my ex, I’m not sure I’d go blabbing to the competition without getting something out of it. If she just wanted to hurt Lukas, she could have leaked the story to the press. Everything seems too staged. From Lukas “confessing” to Shiv about his bad behavior…making himself “vulnerable” to her to draw her into a (false?) sense of intimacy that netted him backstage access without having to truly promise her anything in return. Then such a public fight at the party, being so horrible to Ebba in front of his enemies. Wouldn’t Lukas assume the Roy kids might try to “flip” Ebba now that they conveniently see with their own eyes how she’s treated and might assume she’d want revenge? And then Ebba herself, giving up damaging company secrets after a laughable attempt at empathy from Kendall. I’m not sure if I’m right to be skeptical or even what Mattsen would gain by orchestrating these leaks. Certainly the impulsive Holocaust tweet shows he might not be as smart as he thinks. I don’t know…maybe the show is trying an “Emperor has no clothes” reveal to show that this tech genius is really just an idiot with good PR who got lucky. Surely if he’s NOT actually orchestrating the whole thing and he’s truly trusting Shiv with such sensitive info, and having a completely unnecessary fight with his ex in the company of his enemies, then he’s much worse at business than any of the Roy kids, including poor delusional Connor, who has been interested in politics from a very early age.

please do break down their talking points!! re: shiv and tom

I'm upset you threw out the six pages about Tom and Shiv, that was the most powerful scene in the episode. I would've loved you to spend 20 minutes on it.

not sure if i said it here, but I get ramsay and myranda (game of thrones) vibes from lucas and ebba and totally don't believe she would betray him - especially that quickly to people she doesn't know well and as an introvert and even how they are together all the time. like thats def his inner inner circle and mattison is not stupid even though he's seemed it a little lately. also ken and rom are inexperienced and really find out things too easily and never do follow through.

If the roles were reversed the same people in his comments section will also root for shiv if she outburst like Tom

possible rom direction - he makes piece with gerri like maybe he say something nice at the funeral and she helps him out with kendal - they always had a weird relationship so I think he'd be able to fix it when he picks himself up and goes on the charm offense especially since people and going behind the scenes has always been his strength and its time for him to have a sort of win.

Somebody said below that a lot of people believe Tom is a saint in comparison to Shiv, I think this is wrong. I think what the issue is is it's rare we have this kind of relationship dynamic in television where the power imbalance is so in favor of the woman in relation to the man. Shiv has a tremendous amount of power over Tom, I mean, he even asked her for permission to kick Nate out of his own wedding in Season 1. And still the relationship would mostly survive and be relatively peaceful, but Shiv tends to sabotage it by constantly abusing the power she has over him, and not really considering the long term consequences: i.e. building up an enemy, who has the most intimate knowledge about her.

B...

Shiv finally having a reality check. Just rewatched s1 and she is so clearly a horrible person. God she deserved what she got from Tom. Also, can't wait for Roman to implode.

My three theories about the India numbers: Theory 1: Matsson is cold, he's devious, and he doesn't even trust his own men. The reason he asked, "Oskar or Ebba??" is bc he planted fake stories with THEM, just like he planted the fake blood story with Shiv. Ebba got annoyed with him and told his secret bc their relationship is as tumultuous as the Roy's is with each other. Scene: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Matsson looks comically horrified, then laughs. He's tricked both Kendall AND Ebba into revealing their hands.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! etc, etc, and so on, and so on... And thanks for helping me smoke out Ebba. She's a tough one to crack. I really thought it was Oskar!" The End *Anything Ebba or Oskar try to "reveal" about Mattson will be rendered null by all the b.s. he's fed them, like he's fed the "blood and hair gifts" story to the investigator, so no one will ever believe them if they go public. Theory 2: Matsson is generally devious, but Ebba &Oskar are in on it, and feeding false info to Kendall &Roman FOR him. Revised Scene: This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Ebba and Mattson smirk, triumphantly. They've tricked Kendall into revealing his hand.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! (Kendall is devastated and excuses himself to the bathroom to do cocaine.) **The boys go down in a blaze of incompetence bc they DID NOT DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH TO SUPPORT EBBA'S STORY. Theory 3: It is what it seems to be - Matsson is just a perverted IDIOT with a BIG MOUTH, and the Roys WIN. 3rd Revised Scene: This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... Roman: AND we did the research. It's TRUE, man. Do you even know how many people are IN India? Matsson: What? Yeah, sure... who doesn't? (Mattson smirks, but weakly. He's beaten.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! Roman: Maybe. Maybe. But we made our numbers REAL, man. No one cares if we lied bc we made them money. ... You make your own reality. My Dad said that. ***This one is my favorite.

Bedtime for Bonzo was a film, not a show, and yes, starring Ronald Reagan and you don't need me to tell you, there is the internet. Search before you write. You'll sound smarter!

Bro…you got to give us those 2 pages/6 minutes on Tom & Shiv. Not worthy.

Gerri is out for Gerri. What serves her interest? Of course she’d flip on Roman.

“It was great to see Rava”?? Like Why…

The show is still quality but its not the same without brian cox.

Gynocentric Review

Shiv needs to lose 20 pounds