I do agree that the concept and video may act as a trigger. I disagree with you choosing to take it down however. Conceptually things that are difficult to speak of, often have meaningful impact because of the difficulty. It's actually quite clear personally, given your typical content, that you enjoy exploring topics and allowing the information to flow freely. The solution? Place an intentful disclaimer about what the video covers for a reasonable amount of time, for example 30 seconds to a solid minute after such. Those that choose to continue past that, do so of their own volition. This shifts the ball to their court, and any consequences due to their choices. As any discussion, it is essential to have a back and forth.

I don't think you should remove it, it's wonderfully done, acknowledging all perspectives. Perhaps the people who wrote those comments should burn all Schopenhauer's books and anything that is even slightly pessimistic or depressive as well? This reaction doesn't come from people who are interested in philosophy, this reaction seems like "cancel culture" to me.

​@@Noukz37 I agree with you

Antinatalism has nothing to do with suicide, and everything to do with the refusal to procreate. Also, nothing anyone has ever done has caused the suicide of another. It is always a choice the individual makes for themselves. There is no outside blame that can be logically and verifiably attributed to a 3rd party.

It's a sensetive issue i guess but don't remove it please I enjoyed ur work Good job and keep it up

.....on top of that many parents don't want them after they had them. Lol

No one

@@masterix3312 "Know yourselves. Be infertile and leave the earth silent after you."

Just because one can reproduce does not mean one should. There are so many good people out there that are not good parents, I don’t mean the horror stories one hears of, but just not cut out for being parents. It’s sad how having kids seems to evolve from a logical social norm. Get married and for some reason one must have kids. It is biological but nature just cares about reproduction not necessarily the consequences of that reproduction.

The way I see it this senseless breeding,should have never 👎 been introduced.

If I said something like that to my mother, she would just tell me that I can end it if I'm not happy. And she knows I wouldn't do it.

@@vprez4925 Once my mother got the hint that I have the power to end it, she said that I can't since she gave me that life. How idiotic

@@starlina5621 well you can if that's what you want. I'm not encouraging you to kill yourself, because I think there are a lot of things to be grateful for and since you're already here, you may as well just make the best of it since life is only temporary anyways. ✨️ but it's your own life, you do whatever you want with it.

@@starlina5621 lmfaoo wtf what does she gotta do with your life? That sure was idiotic

Same. I had a horrible childhood.

I also tend to think that many people are not aware how immense this decision is. I mean you make a Person (it seems to be out of nowhere) which exists in average for maybe 80 years and will think and feel so many things in this extremely long time. Maybe it will reproduce itself. Insane 2 People can decide to make a person out of nowhere

@@ichbinaufyoutube7441 "lol lets drag a victim out of purgatory to this pathethic mortal plane"

True

​@@ichbinaufyoutube7441 yeah it's crazy right? humanity is fueled by sexual desire, sex brings us here and when we get here, we spend our lives eating and chasing it just to continue the cycle

Every muslim goal of life especially women to get married to muslim men wear hijab & produce 7-8 kids which give a golden chance make every country look like afganisthan , pakisthan

Me too, I am with you on that. I’m 40 years old, single/unmarried and childfree all by choice and I have zero regrets.

Good decision!

You never know though - maybe becoming a father would be a great incentive to push yourself to a higher moral standard and becoming the example you want to manifest.

@@kennetheriksen1091 it wasn't my moral standard, other issues I was aware of but not equipped to handle at that point in my life. Morals are something interpreted by an external observer, like yourself, which is nothing to a stoic. The only thing that matters to me is that I acted correctly at that time. My brother did not, and he raised two spoiled, narcissistic children that have the same issues he does, so the cycle continues.

@@terrycavender What a happy coincidence! I'm currently writing my master thesis on stoic philosophy. Terry - you are adding some premises when you are talking about your brother. If the starting point is the stoic philosophical doctrines, I would suggest looking up Malin Grahn-Wilders book on gender and sexuality, which is taking up the issue with having offspring (i think in one of the later chapters, 12-14). I don't think the stoic sage can be anti-natalist because of the implications of anti-natalism towards Being. Being is fundamentally good in stoic philosophy. I do agree that choosing is correct in stoic philosophy, but I would check to see if the premises that led you to your conclusion is anchored in vice rather than virtue. EDIT: So - the sage can choose not to have kids (and still be a sage), but to hold anti-natalistic philosophy as true and be a stoic is impossible.

@@kennetheriksen1091 you should know that bookworms don't impress me. Have you ever noticed sages are old? Go live your life for forty years, then get back to me. You may f**k off now.... 🤣

children are a waste of time and money

I’ll procreate once the world becomes worth living, in the next fifteen years if I see humanity put aside its bullshit and come together to build a better world, I’ll invest into it with kids so they can experience the pleasures of virtual reality or space travel.

@J C It's not that they feel entitled to procreate, it's that they feel compelled to because that's what all animals are evolved to do. We all just make up intellectual justifications for it but really, we're just reading and acting on the instructions in our genetic code. It takes a very unusual person to be able to override the commands of nature. Either a very unusual person, or very unusual circumstances.

@@EyeLean5280 exactly this! No one takes our biology into account. The only reason humans have survived for thousands of years is because our genetics instruct us to procreate, just like any other animal. Reproduction is literally our only purpose in nature.

@Planet Babylon I feel like I can both agree and disagree with this statement. For one, it corresponds with the concept that the first step to gaining true enlightenment is understanding and accepting what we don't know rather than just relying on what we think we know, because when we understand what we don't know, this should ignite a desire to learn not just the things that we think will be most relevant to what we want, but to also learn everything that we can. If we know that we don't know how to be good parents, then we are already closer to becoming good parents because we should then have the desire to learn more about what good parenting means, as opposed to those who still sit within the delusion that they have everything figured out. However, the operative word here is "should." Some people, when confronted with the reality of what they don't know just accept that their entire lot in life is to never know. This is, in my opinion, the saddest of all existences, because rather than approaching this gap in their knowledge as an obstacle that must be crossed to achieve fulfillment, they just accept that this is the end of their road, leaving them stranded in a place farther from fulfillment than where they started. Likewise, some people just truly accept that they will never be good parents, and that is their entire lot in life. Now, I should say that I do not think becoming a parent is necessary for fulfillment. People can and do live fulfilling lives without having children of their own, but the difference that I see is that those who lead these fulfilling lives made the chose not to have children because that is not their idea of fulfillment; whereas, those who truly believe they can't be good parents aren't choosing to not be parents, but rather avoiding parenthood because they have no confidence in themselves, likely informed by the fact that their model parents did nothing but shatter their confidence. So, rather than approach the question of parenthood by asking "is this what I really want?" to which they will eventually conclude and declare with confidence that their answer is either yes or no, they resign themselves to never exploring whether parenthood is right for them because they truly believe that they could never be nor ever learn to be good parents.

Because they're like mindless bugs. Here to reproduce and reproduce more death by having children.

Everyday i have the same hassle

@@Cookiemonster261 They did. They must have known, or they are incredibly blind and willfully ignorant to all the possibillities of suffering that a child may be exposed to. No human is THAT stupid, so it was a egotistical decision from their own needs, not from the needs of the child. I often hear parents "jokingly" say: The child was made to give ME cuddles. Sadly, that's no joke, it's just the plain truth for most parents. I especially often hear mothers say this. They felt lonely in life and wanted to temper some of that lonely feeling by making another being. I understand that, but I cannot forgive that, not untill the payback is due.

Because they're dumb.

its just instinctual. We dont have that much control on our lives. Every scene is dependant on before and yet we change based on our surroundings. You are not the man living but you are the man watching.

Brother what's your opinion on this?

​@@lovethyneibor22736 I honestly think people should either make love in ways/techniques that don't involve conception or use anti-contraceptives more. One of the reasons why there are so many is because people have become too eager and dumb to think "slip on a condom" or "lets just do a blowy" or anything, what's worse, they're getting younger and younger. So that's kids raising kids and we all know that's a recipe for disaster.

@@innerguardianXIIIchemicals in the chemistry lab

exactlyyy

I wanted to say something like this, but you said it so concisely, so I’ll just say “This!”

I was also gonna write something like this. I'll settle for replying and liking for the algorithm.

i couldnt find the words for it but yes this is what i was thinking too

Is there any good reasons to have kids? The planet already have enough humans.

@@frog6054 agreed.

thank you!!! for this comment...and everyone looks at you nasty when you say this ...but its truth i didn't agree to this ...

@@happiness6746 especially in Asian households

There is a Chinese book called 24 exemplars of filial piety Give it a read. It will make you realize just how fucked up this situation really is.

Exactly.

don't see you offing yourself

i feel you.

Sure as the surest of things, death will come for you. Just hope that your "consciousness", if there is one, doesn't go into another body.

Wait are you immortal or what?

Listen to OSHO please

I feel the same way

Just sleeping down in a see of literally nothing while the sound of rain place Forever sleep just sounds so good.

True

@@elwiito8242 yes

@@romeohio19 did I say it was difficult? Are you projecting or something…?

@@romeohio19 I'm complainig that we have to worry about losing weight. I lost a bunch of weight. My problem is that I have to watch what I eat, or diet to loose weigt as I did. Most people have to. It would be easier if I didn't have to. In any moment I said I had a problem with it or that it was dificult. So be coesive and try to respond to information that is actually contained in the comment.

Stay away from people who talk like that, their brains are wired differently, not in a good way.

I've heard this phrase from a certain religion before

I agree, and 90% of the time,they never explain why😂

No selfish is have to kids and not able take care about them

The reason people feel that way is because the focus of a person's life (without children) is on only themselves instead of new life on earth. They cannot pass down any parts of themselves to the next generation, therefore they are simply living for their own interests. I personally don't have any strong opinions on this, but this is why people think that way.

Thank you for that advice. I agree with you.

Thank you. I get so tired of people telling me I’ll change my mind. Because I won’t. I’d love to adopt or foster if I want kids. I don’t want to birth my own.

you should also never let anybody shame you for WANTING to bring children into the world tho.

​@@josephorossi I would quietly (but hopefully respectfully) disagree with you on this point. The biological imperative to procreate is a drive that can overwhelm the rational centers of our minds. At this point, it seems to be self-evident that some portion of humanity will continue to follow those drives, even when the society and environment that we would populate with our offspring is... Unwelcoming. I'm sure we all have a friend who "always wanted to have kids". But if that personal fixation has caused them to lose sight of the implication that they would struggle to raise a happy and well-adjusted child in today's society... Then the responsibility falls on the rest of us to highlight all the potential pitfalls of that course of action. I consider this to be particularly true when the would-be-parent has always struggled with mental-health issues, and seems to think that a child would magically solve those problems. I agree that shaming them might be a step too far. By approaching them in this manner, you're attempting to make them feel horrible about a core part of their identity and/or biology. But more problematically, you're fostering a combative relationship. You're far less likely to "bring them around" when you're simply beating them over the head with ideologies that are alien to them.

@@benjaminhoare5927 i appreciate your elaboration. i should have specified that if you cannot afford them and you have specific issues then yes, you probably shouldnt have kids. if you can afford them and you want them, then go for it! why not give the gift of life to a new organism? thats what i do not get about the antinatalism idealogy. they live the life as an organism but tell you not to give any life to a new organism and for what reason? (like i said, only have kids if you can afford them.) it doesnt really make any sense to me personally because the ideology is not only ironic but incredibly silly and holds no real virtue besides shaming people for just doing what we were born to do, and thats have children and expand the population. the ideology seems like it wants to end the human population. what kind of self-deprecating ideology is that? humans are flawed but why would we wipe out the human race? it just doesnt make sense to me. how is our offspring unwelcoming? are you implying that we are an invasive species?? humans have done A LOT before any of this antinatalism BS happened. idk, im skeptical. it seems like people just dont want to have kids. hey! thats fine with me. just dont tell me and my future wife who are financially stable to not have children. i have a problem with that. one more thing, why dont antinatalists just commit suicide if they are so against human lives? lol they are all sufferers. i cant believe this is a thing really.

all hail you

@@bootscooty Dude - you’re ALL up in this comment section. Maybe you ought to look inward and figure out why you’re so triggered about this topic. Could help give you some insight about the core issue.

@@RustySpoons6490 oh thank you. You're being so helpful

Yeah i know its why im not having kids,its even more cruel being born as a black person with everything you have to go through.

@@donalddudd2105 I feel this on a personal level. You’re almost guaranteed, malice being born black. This is one of the reasons I do not want kids myself

thats something straight up from Bojack the horseman, some existentional nihilism stuff

It sucks just to cope with the fact of being here.

True, the things I hate doing are prolonged while the things I enjoy are short-lived

cope seethe mald

same

Most women in poor and developing countries don't have access to birth control. And alot more are victims of abuse and rape... They aren't given a choice. It's the breeders in countries like mine that have no excuse. Both men and women have access to birth control and at least some laws against abuse and rape. This too however is rapidly changing because capitalists that run this country are restricting reproduction and even banning rights because they want mindless consumers to be continuously born for them to manipulate and profit off their suffering and poverty. Poverty is big business and humans are the currency.

Your comment touched me, and i say, with respect: Yes, it seems better if very poor people would postpone or have only 1 or 2 children; but social & religious pressures are high, and some people can't fight against them. We all know some pregnancies are a "mistake"; however others are very much wanted, even tho' the parents live in poverty. i mean, we never know who will grow up to be a great person who improves the world! i was a "mistake" myself (and suffered several bad things in my life), but, since i survived i just try and help others, even in small ways. So, are you now, or can you become a "Big Brother" to a child who needs one, can you give money to those who distribute birth control or maybe start a men's-movement to talk about why smaller families are a good thing? Trying to keep a positive attitude in this none-too-perfect world is a struggle all of us have.

@@axeSyntax It would be counterproductive to commit suicide as he adds more value than a newborn could at this present moment. It makes no sense to end the life of someone who is a productive citizen and who resources have already been invested in. That would be a waste. It's best to let the ones who are already here live it out as much as possible to see what can be salvaged. Refusing to have children either though abortion or non conception isn't the same as suicide or murder.

@@axeSyntax that's absolutely very selfish. Bringing kids is selfish

@@lisasforehead495 no it isn't. That's how kids are born, that's how we both born

When you think about it, we are just advanced versions of the first unicellular live all those billions of years ago. We still have the core function of energy intake and reproduction. It works out fine for all sentient life, but evolution never figured out what happens when you introduce sentience into the equation. Its interesting and sad

@@arbitrarilyentertainment8553 beautifully said

@@URAWESOME94 Thank you!

@@arbitrarilyentertainment8553 So much this. Evolution, like virtually every natural process/phenomenon, doesn’t think and instead, just fucks up shit at random because nature is, in fact, a piece of trash.

at first I saw Thanos as the villain but then I thought he's actually right in his philosophy, not agreeing with his approach but his philosophy is spot-on

I’m so proud of you! I too am going to follow the same path.

Great! Well done!

same...i don't even plan to stay a long time on this planet...

@@happiness6746 you ok?

There are so many unlucky children who have already been brought into this sad world only to be abandoned. If I want a kid I will raise one of those!

Sorry but that’s amazing! No worries about slip ups

that's awesome! i have to pay to be sterilized :/ worth it!

whoa, talk about winning the lottery twice

I wish I was infertile

Me too. After getting married I got caught in the hype of trying to have children, but I turned out to be infertile. Now I am tremendously relieved that I didn't sentence another soul to life by selfishly mimicking the examples around me. I wish I could say that I consciously chose this path, but I was not wise enough to do so. I am however content and even grateful with the outcome.

fr

@@avocados1707(says that while living middle class in a first world country, only depressed because of terminally being on the internet and only sees the bad in the world by doomscrolling)

What? All huamns will experience physical/emotional pain, insecurities, struggles, deaths, sickness. That's all suffering that no one will exp. if not born..@@eu_bebo_oleo

​@@eu_bebo_oleoDid you know that sperm count has halved since the 1970s?

​@@eu_bebo_oleoThe "great" society you live in has done nothing more than weaken you and stunt your growth. It is akin to helping an animal in the wild from something entirely natural that if it can not overcome itself, it deserves to die from.

If only it were that easy 😞

I love sleeping too

i imagine a world where i could live in clouds all alone with my pet or a fairytale partner...back to earth i go😂

When I get a chance to go to the seaside, ever since middle-age, I walk out on the sand until I'm right at the water's edge. And with my arms wide open, I feel like I'm rehearsing for my body to be absorbed back into the universe, like I'm getting ready for the long sleep.

@Fuyukichie Idk if ure still reading replies but I think ud be interested in sensory deprecation It’s rly relaxing and gives that exact feeling ur talking about it’s only a few minutes and might be costly depending on where u go but hey y’a only live once and experiences are worth a while

Agreed

I'm sorry for your circumstances but I applaud you in recognizing them and their impact on any potential children you could have had.

I don't think so. If my parents had genetic deformities that passed onto me I'd like them to make me and then let me decide if I want to live or not. By not bringing me into this world they're already deciding if I live or don't and I think the child should decide. Edit: I hope this comment doesn't get deleted but chosing not to live is choosing to die via bleach if you know what I mean.

@@putinsgaytwin4272 how can you decide if you don't exist in the first place?

@@putinsgaytwin4272 It would be cruelty travelling upwards from you to them if they birthed and raised you only for you to decide to kill yourself. They'd wonder why they even had you at all.

yeah but yo- goddamn it but if you are reading this and want to see what i wouldve said, scroll but you wouldnt win also so amogus funny haha lol

The stupid truth is that people can't detach themselves from their narrow comparison viewpoint. Their range of results has "person with all needs met" on one end and "person with no needs met" on the other. Nowhere does "person with no needs" exist.

They think you're depressed or something and think they are helping when all they do is annoy you with their ignorance.

Exactly, dear!

what i can't wrap my head around is how you could experience existence and then say "nah, this is too hard, I wish I never existed" go take a walk in the woods without music or your phone, come back and tell me existence sucks

Wow Broken Moon Your comment is not depressing but very true and could really make this world better.

So you agree with human trafficking? That's basically what adoption is, human trafficking. If you do t want to have kids, then don't have ANY kids.

One of my good friends (who had aspesgrers) growing up tried to get a vasectomy as he had already put a lot of thought into it and would never willingly bring a child into the world to suffer as he did!

u are so right!

💯

This is the best phrasing of my view that I’ve ever seen. Thanks, I’m stealing it.

Shame that it isn’t your own choice to make

you are all nuts

@Rick Haydn Horst You must live a life of pointless self pity and apathy.

The only person who is worthy enough to have kids is someone who is willing to be careful, humble, and responsible enough to not make it all out themselves and what they want. They should think about what the future child would want and whether or not whatever life and family you bring them into is good. You should be prepared to be a good role model first regarding how you are as a human being because the child will have to put up and live with the way you are while growing up with you. Children replicate what they see from their parents. If you do not care and are not willing to do any of those things first, then you are not worthy to have children. Why am I saying this? Because procreation is not a game. Sex for pleasure in marriage is one thing, but procreation is a whole another. It’s not just a baby, it’s another human being with feelings, a soul, and a conscience that can be affected in the mind and in the heart just like you, me, and everyone else in this world. Once you procreate, there’s no going back. You can’t abort it because then that’s murder.

​​@@arcticangel1628 It doesn't matter if you actually do your best to raise your child well, because even if you do that child has to be thrown into the world, to become independent from his parents, and the world is not a good place to live, at all. You can live the most average life possible and have almost equal ups and downs in your life, you can choose to ignore almost everything but those few moments of realization will hit you harder than anything. You'll realize it wasn't worth existing at all and it would be much better to not have been born.

impossible because then you would have been someone else, keep in mind that we are one.

Me too there’s always been a connection to nature for me ,but a connection to other humans I’ve struggled with

I'm sorry, I wish you to recover, take care

Exactly! Antinatalism and nihilism brought me peace as well.

also it's an ultimate part of this "gift" our parents gave us, so, u r right sir

​@@abhisheksing8379 same bro

@@abhisheksing8379 what brings me peace is that antinatalism is a self destructive ideology since none of it's followers will reproduce. pro-natalists will inherit the world, and make it a better place.

Rest in nothingness

same. I don't see much difference between an adopted child and your own, so why not help someone?

@@aaliyah5355 maybe because people want to take care of their own flesh and blood instead of others when they can. we do not owe the orphans anything.

@@bakedcoffee4791 yeah

@@bakedcoffee4791 oh dear, you sound like a terrible human.

me too thats great! and lowers the amount of people sufferring

That is SO selfish of her!!!

They never burden the child's father. They always try to burden the eldest daughter and they don't realise how this can add to behavioural problems later on in life. They lie to themselves thinking it's for your own good because on day you'll be a parent, but truth is they just can't afford the help and they're dumping the outcome of a selfish decision between two consenting adults on a child. I find that so atrocious with some of these single mothers. They won't hold daddy accountable. The only reason they had confidence to continue with a pregnancy was because they KNEW they could use their daughter to fill in as a parent. That is so evil.

I also knew as a child that having children would be a mistake! You have to ignore what morons say and just do what you know is right.

Holy shit, that's me. Except I was 9. My dad died when my brother was one so I was basically a co parent as a child. Never having kids.

@@SongOfTheSwan wow that’s interesting. I’m called selfish and egotistical when I say I don’t want children when it seems like the opposite. People are egotistical to want to have children of their own. Make sense to me.

I meen if you don't want to exist in this world half of the time dosen't meen than that other half is worth liveing for?? I personaly think than in a world were no bad exsist would be actualy worst than our current world, because with no bad things we wouldn't not be able to like the good things.

good for you. if you really don't want to be here you know exactly what to do.

@@bootscooty Maby telling someone to go kill themself it's not a realy nice thing to say. Just saying but that is not very nice to be onest.

Totally agree

@@nuotatorre8741 that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard in a world where only good things exist we would definitely know to appreciate the good ESPECIALLY because the bad wouldn’t exist

She mad because of the mistakes she made, and chose to take it out on you. She's clearly became jealous of you because of it. That's what made her say that to you. Which is vile and disgusting.

This dude got yelled at once by his mom and now he thinks he shouldn’t even exist LMAO😂😂😂

@@Robert.Smith6969 My guy, this isn’t the place to be a jackass. Your excess use of emojis gives it away.

Why stop there?

even if you have a time of happiness you would think a great thing i live

True

that s quite fcked up way of looking at life. if we get into this street we are going to end nowhere but to reject life and creation. btw that is totally understandable if you are depressed or have some kind of anxiety disorder but i dont think that the majority of people who upvoted your comment has something like that. and that is ridiculous. internet edgelord manchilds (not you) jumping on new things to justify why they only care about superficial things and reject parenthood.

It is true. I was born with a defect and ADHD and had to go into mental abuse from others including family members. I also blame it for lowering my confidence to make it in university, have relationships, and get a better career due to social anxiety.

💔💔💔

I'm so sorry you had to experience that, just know that you didn't deserve to be told that and you matter

Damn....😢

At least your mom produce 5 kids, because Islam is knocking your doorstep to defeat Islam you need have baby or else every country will be islamic

why is it always the moms wth ? what's wrong with women , how can someone say something so heartless to their own children

Freedom? You are just too old to be useful anymore, so might as well discard u

hru bro

Same my life sucks

​@@Ben_419 are you American, this is growing tendency in Americans

@@pauldirc.. Yes

@@Ben_419 oh look like people in developed countries are getting depression, same is happening here in Australia

Iv told my mom I wish she never had me , all life is is torture and a mind game. Work till death stress plus mental issues. Those of us that want to die can’t because we will get locked up, we should be able to be injected if we want

I think that to myself every day and I'm not even that depressed 💀

Funny I said existence was painful before when I was really depressed and this one person thought I was quoting Mr Meeses from Rick and Morty and I was like 😳🤔 oh well no I was just saying how I felt. It's just funny how things are said and ppl don't take it seriously and when it is ppl ask if it's just a quote/joke/bad meme. Ppl are really weird 🤨😂😂.

Why do you think existence is pain? Because you have to work?

only once or twice?

😂

They always think it's a bloody phase ... sigh.

I hate when parents assume that just because their kids aren't blind obedient monkeys anymore and discover their own autonomy and independence, they assume their kids are being edgy and going through a phase when they have a right to voice their cynicism and opinions as well. I am glad you stuck to your roots. A good few can't do that nowadays. 👌

@@TheGoldenPlatoon757 My mom still thinks I am going to be a Christian after coming out as an atheist in middle school. I turn 27 years old in a few days.

@@teemun3979 I am surprised you're still in contact with her if that's the case. I plan on leaving my whole entire family behind forever without a trace once I get the opportunity.

Incorrect. Existence *entails* pain, sure

​@@Ren-dr1dc Existence is an act of love. Whoever exists, exists because God loves that person, literally.

@@x-popone6817 stfu what about people with chronic illness and suffering that are still alive. Where is god then!!!

@@x-popone6817 But what if that love was not wanted? Love can go only one way, it does not need to be reciprocated, how do you argue that life *isn't* just out of limerent affection from a deity if there is one? Or if someone came up to you and said "I love you and now you shall marry me because I love you and say so", would you do it?

I'm chronically ill so yeah always in pain

The only person who is worthy enough to have kids is someone who is willing to be careful, humble, and responsible enough to not make it all out themselves and what they want. They should think about what the future child would want and whether or not whatever life and family you bring them into is good. You should be prepared to be a good role model first regarding how you are as a human being because the child will have to put up and live with the way you are while growing up with you. Children replicate what they see from their parents. If you do not care and are not willing to do any of those things first, then you are not worthy to have children. Why am I saying this? Because procreation is not a game. Sex for pleasure in marriage is one thing, but procreation is a whole another. It’s not just a baby, it’s another human being with feelings, a soul, and a conscience that can be affected in the mind and in the heart just like you, me, and everyone else in this world. Once you procreate, there’s no going back. You can’t abort it because then that’s murder.

Because you're just saying something, some bullshit it sounds like. You haven't DONE anything.

Don't adopt, you are making others irresponsible!!

I feel the same - I mean, I congratulate myself every day that I have never made copies of myself, even though I am what you might call a moderately high achiever in life.

Same here. I'm poor and suffer from anxiety and anger issues, which are also genetic. I'm doing the human species a favor by not bringing in more broke, unwilling, hot-tempered nervous wrecks into the world. As if there aren't already enough of those who are destroying humanity the way it is.

I agree with you. At least we'll leave the world slightly better than it would be if we procreated.

Same here 🙂

just being born white is a crime keep with the program

True

If you had never been born, then instead of it being your conscious experience right now, it'd instead be one of the consciousnesses that are occuring right now. This is because only experience is experienced. Your lack of existence would not be a sort of "black void of Nothingness".

I feel this either! I really think i have such a different mindset from so much other people..

The hard topics to talk about are hard because we all feel we are not part of All there is. It’s nice when we can admit that we are life experience experiencing itself through who and what we are as thinking creatures called human beings.

@@naturalisted1714 This is something I long wanted to talk with someone about. Intuitively I understand what you are saying and yet it is quite difficult for me to grasp. I think when people, for instance those who do not believe in an afterlife, try to imagine/explain pre-birth/death, it's that imagery of the black void that occasionally pops up. And yet to experience "blackness" and "emptiness" in such a manner would indeed require consciousness, which therefore indicates that it could not be a nonexistent state devoid of such (consciousness). As conscious, experiencial beings due to the nature of existence as we perceive it, we can only imagine a continuity of such a state. I do not know what that means for the nature of conscious experience and existence and whether it's scope is larger than we imagine or no.

How do you punish something that didn't exist before?

True

@@widodoakrom3938 You are probably the same kind of person who also thinks teens and young adults still jumping inside a bouncy castle sometimes is okay too

@@gleelights9525 accept the reality bro lives is cursed no ones wants to be born

@@widodoakrom3938 There was the night light that faded dim on you at the time of year when the when the didn't bother you at all!!!.. The buzz was going out on you full of the ratchet and insider instead youvtrade there fulls!!!.. That was a CD that needed more help than you thought about the laser going back and forth on the ceiling?!!!.. The organic is what was the dancing elmo kites on you!!!. You fly kites and it will be a slippery slope eith hair inside of ears!!!.. The turtle went to the desk and saw some whirring noises that had scopes in it!!!.. Dot dot buzz light tovyou otherwise

Its always awesome to come across another person with the same kind of ideals. I would go a couple steps further though and require a parenting course with a strict final exam & then a "parenting" bar exam to obtain a parenting license, like what lawyers have to do to get their law license. There also would need to be a qualifying intelligence level to even take the course. WAY too many dumb people making & raising dumb kids.

My idea is to replace the "sex-ed" presentations they have in elementary &/or middle school with an actual course called "Health & Wellness" that lasts from 5th or 6th grade all the way through senior year in high school and you can't pass to the next grade or receive your diploma at the end without passing this class every year. Basically, it teaches physical & mental health over an entire human lifespan, where sex-ed is simply the physical intro to life. Over the course of the 6 or 7 years, they will learn about the importance of prenatal care & development in the womb, early childhood development, including education about attachment styles (which will affect a child's relationships in adulthood), then about adolescence, where lessons would be focused on self-reflection about their own childhoods & what they've learned so far about childhood development, and then moving thru to responsibilities of young adulthood & middle age, including childrearing & care of elderly parents, which serves to introduce the final stages of human life - senescence & end of life care & death. And the point of it would be to put sex into the _context_ of the fullness of life, so that during those years & upon graduating, they at least feel the weight of the issue of sex & having kids, and know themselves well enough to pick good partners & _be_ good partners, and make whatever choices are right for them.

I agree so so much! The fact that just anyone who is able to is allowed to procreate without any regulation is ridiculous to me.

@@GhostOfAmsterdam69 So who gets to decide who can & can't have children?

Not even a psychological exam, more like a self-reflective empathy exam that questions *why* do you want kids, are you prepared to raise a human being for the next 20+ years?, do you know yourself well enough for a child to be fully dependent on you?, etc. My parents are good people who have gotten even better with age, but they're one of millions who simply had kids because they were at that age and familial/peer pressure dictated that having children is the obligatory "next step". My parents provided me with food, shelter, safety, and love to the best of their ability, but they were not qualified at all to bring life into this world. I love them dearly, but I would never so carelessly yank an innocent soul into existence because society says something's wrong with you if you don't.

Don’t feel too guilty. What’s done is already done. Just make sure to love him and recognize the fact that he’s his own individual. Don’t treat him like a robot that has to follow your every command. Teach him to question the world around him. I’m sure you do all those things anyways. You seem like a good parent.

This! I'm a teacher myself and would NEVER bring a soul into this fucked up world. Even as a child also growing up in a highly abusive traditional and religious family I knew I would adopt someday to give children a warm loving and caring home. But back then I got no help from anyone whatsoever! And this teaching job itself is so humiliating, every day I have to deal with boomer colleagues and arrogant parents, it really makes you sick. Then you have to go and break children's spirit and heart by giving them a D- or F. Fuck this world or make them "behave".

I understand how you feel and would say that' you are good for thinking like this. However, I would highly advise you NOT to say something like this to him. He will get confused and feel like he's not needed.

Amor fati

As they say, you can do everything right and still lose. That's the risk of bringing up children: either the world breaks them or they become a menace to the world. All you can hope to do is teach them how to cope/accept what can't be changed and how to be a champion for things they can.

At least, your father is honest and realistic.

lucky u have good father and mother

Good understanding

The purpose of having children also means having someone to take care of parents in their old age and for economic reasons - to have people to work for them and uplift their lives. This is also a common culture in some Asian countries.

You will not live and die alone….get a pet,plant, or do meditation. You are amazing, and you have your own path, friend.

As an asian from a third world country, I do agree with you. With the current economic situation and how corrupted the government is, it would be better if children of middle class to lower class to never be born. They will have to pay debt that never meant to better the citizen life but to make the lives of the riches better. Education that wasn’t meant to make children smarter but to brainwash new generations to love this certain someone unconditionally who shall not be named.

I do agree w/ antinatalism to a degree yet the fact of the matter is you still have a nation and a country to maintain. You just can’t let the population reach 0 and have another country populate it like it’s nothing. Anti-natalism as a few gems but with everything practicalism is needed. I would dare say give children more rights and don’t see them as property to the it familiese and parents. Allow children to be emancipated but still be protected under law as minors. I wanted to have 7 kids after this philosophy it’s close to zero but everyone once and a while the thought of having just one comes up. I will make sure to adopt or at least help out the children that are already born.

your not going to be alone your gonna meet people like us!!!thats a lie the ignorant people programmed in your head

Man, how cruel!

@@dollcrazy300 Life must go on, no matter how cruel and unfair.

Sean both my parents were ignorant and cruel and abusive and my father was a criminal. But because of the Catholicism they fought like hell to reproduce. I’m barely functioning. Barely, like it’s a daily struggle. My younger brother is a lost cause. Plus I got my moms ugly man genes (uncle fester apparently runs on her side of the family in the men) and no money … I feel like my entire life is pointless and a fucking waste.

@@getshorty7549 I feel your struggle but I don't think your entire life is a waste. I used to be like that but amidst the pain and the struggle, I kept moving forward. Just keep moving forward.

Much love to you. Wish I could be a mom-like friend to you. Your father is weak. That is why he could not be alone, maybe, and not consider your (very) young adult emotional needs, as well as financial needs at that stage of life. Go forward and be the strong one. Help others. Decide to be a parent or not. But keep going. Find a little pleasure everyday, even if it's a glass of cool water and a chat with a friend. Wishing you the best.

😢

based

There is a lot more good in this world than evil.

@@Ebb0Productions Watch the whole video

@@Ebb0Productions source?

No. Don't make the world a better place. Make it inhospitable.

YESSS. I tell so many people: "they (parents) know how much it hurts, but why do they still do it?" The answer is because they can't stand seeing someone else have it easier than them! They think "if I had to go through it, then you need to go through it too!"

I think that selfish and unselfish reasons are the wrong metrics to go by, since I find psychological egoism plausible. Psychological egoism states that every conscious, intentional action that one does, is fundamentally motivated by selfish reasons. Some people are selfishly motivated to act good, and some are selfishly motivated to act bad. We therefore need a society that makes good actions more rewarding for those who don't get the psychological "high" when acting good. But, if we talk about selfish in the common sense way of talking about it. Perhaps some have children for unselfish reasons, but they're in the extreme minority. These are those who have children for their family, nation etc. Perhaps one can even have a child for that child's sake, where a child is benefited by being brought into existence if the life contains more good than bad. But I've never heard of anyone actually having children for the child's sake.

@Pluto THIS!! very well said

There's no unselfish reason to have kids. It always comes from a place of selfishness. We have a biological drive to reproduce. I don't think being selfish is necessarily evil, particularly when it is a drive, like sleep, or eating, which are also selfish things we do. If you really wanted to experience having a child for an unselfish reason you'd adopt an older one.

Same perspective here.

I think the same way. Im gonna be 16 in some month and I’ve already decided that I don’t want children. The negative side is that when you tell people about your choice, they start nagging and saying “you don’t know yet”, “you’re gonna change your mind”, “you’re to young to know”, “Our country needs more people for its economy” and shit like that. I even got asked if I hated babies because I didn’t want anyone. Also they never say those things to a person who does want children (mostly because it’s the social norm)

surprisingly its the western world who make less and less baby while africa alsmot make up for all the population growth

@@userjsjsks4141 Hold on, be strong. I am a 29 year old women, and people are pushing and telling me to have kids for almost 8 years now. I'm finally, and thankfully, at a point where I can say 'fuck you all' (in my mind that is). I have a job, earn money and pay taxes. And that's only because I have to survive, like everybody else. But kids... no, that doesn't serve me. I'm contributing enough for the society, methinks.

Thank you that helps😊

I want Thanos for president!

Of yourself or everyone?

@gleelights9525 definitely for himself, because there are people like you who love the rut system and we don't want to bother you

@@DeepakJAT0007 thanks pajeet my life is awesome and i wouldn't give it away for anything

It's more selfish to have children for your own personal desires. So no, you're not selfish.

@@myownpath1046 aww I appreciate this. Thank you!

@@myownpath1046 Yeah, I work in a place where children can sometimes run rampant. The things nowadays I see parents let their kids get away with. I always knew when I was young that I really didn't want kids. I didn't want kids even when I was a kid. I just... kinda knew. In my gut. That somehow, I wasn't evil for not wanting children. But I couldn't find the words to properly explain it. So I went most of my life thinking something was wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with people like this. In fact, there's something _very right_ and truthful with these people.

I was thinking the same thing and feeling the same way.

@@melonrobotics I feel the same way. We're not alone!

Another sad news. There's no sky daddy !

Your short comment brought tears to my eyes

Yes a lot of women seem to do that with entertainers and professional sports men and the men are so foolish to let it happen-time after time after time. Often, they have no relationship with the child. You are right, it is so selfish.

well thank god im gay.

@@AndriaaLeoLove and the men also cheat on them and get other women pregnant..

@@AndriaaLeoLove and some men like to sow their seed and get as many babies and baby mamas as they can afford

what's behind this choice if i may ask? wouldn't you be in a better position than most to become parents considering your situation and thus the "odds" of your child being relatively healthy and productive higher? personally i'm not interested in having children myself and have never been, but i'm not ruling it out completely as things change and after all it is to some extent coded into all living beings dna.

Congratulations on your wise decision!

There are too little children in developed countries. Its insane how this myth made it into everybody believe system. Replacement rate is not reached. Society will colapse as a result of having too few children.

I won't place a label on myself as I do believe humanity will exist for many generations and if children are loved I have no problem with people having children, but I'd never bring another life into this world to suffer. I'd much rather adopt. You don't have to be blood to be a parent or a sibling. It's a matter of strength and the emotional bond.

I really respect what you do. The world needs more people like you. Thank you for your selflessness and keen observation.

I think you should pat yourself on the back for realising all of this at such a young age. Becoming a parent COULD be great. But it COULD also be awful. It's up to each and everyone to figure out for ourselves what is gonna be worth it in the end. It's sad to hear your mother said this to you. But if that's the kind of mindset she lives by then you're already living a more fulfilling life than she appears to have ever lived. By her logic, if ones worth to the world only relies on the children you bring to it, then every person who decides to not have any more children, is a waste of space. That includes her. (Presuming she isn't having any more kids ofc).

Transgender wtf

As you can tell from someone like your mother, giving birth is sometimes the selfish thing to do, even if phrased otherwise. She's certainly trying to drag you into the life Ponzi scheme.

Whoever thinks the only thing a person with a womb is good for is childbirth, THEY arent any better than that themselves, as THEY cant think of another reason.

That’s the sexist idea that women/females only purpose is to have kids. Having bio kids is selfish. Good for you don’t listen to her

off-topic but your pfp is 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

Same for me. I've felt this in my heart from a very young age and it hasn't changed a bit as I've come into adulthood.

I didn't know either! I've thought this way since I was 6! I told my uncle that I wish I hadn't been born at 6 years old. He got so upset with me that I never shared that thought with anybody.else. I'm not alone. Others feel the same way and that is so rewarding! I didn't even know this philosophical idea existed!

@@BodyAndSol96 what?! Thank you for sharing! I'm not alone!

same!!

Sounds like the system did a real number on you.

You’re exactly the type of person who should have children. Now, you’ve let the unfit to reproduce. If anything, you did humanity a disservice.

Me too!

@@OakwiseBecoming you obviously dont understand. That's fine. But please don't make remarks like that. I could do the same to you. "Sounds like you still really need a mommy in your life so you create one out of your partner by having a child."

It’s more complicated than that. We have to have children to continue life. Every child now may potentially be a life saving doctor, a caregiver to the elderly, a scientist, every and all people have some value and something to offer.

I get it all the time, but if i had a choice i would never choose to be born.

It’s not really selfish if you can raise the children so that they are competent enough to leave the nest. If you just want a mini me so that you feel loved and have a child as a form of property that you can smother and control then yes it’s selfish. Letting your bloodline survive is part of evolution so the act alone isn’t really selfish. Otherwise every animal on the planet is selfish.

@@Emma-yg2uf Sweet Emma, what took me 5 years to understand can't be undone. Fundamentally, it's about not wanting to be here. And if, like me, you don't really want to be here, why would I do that to someone else? Why would I create that in another being? That pain would be my responsibility. I don't really want to be here, I am at odds with the world, and you obviously like living. That difference will always be there to color our opinions. This is not the way I want to live life but the world is what it is. You either join or fall behind. We don't care for our elders, our kids are in daycare, parents both work ,is this the world we want to live in? Where everything grows for free but you need a job and leave your kid with a stranger? No. Sorry.

@@Emma-yg2uf and the simple and obvious fact that you say "it's not REALLY selfish" tells me you really do undertstand. But, like so many others, you choose to ignore that idea/feeling/understanding in benefit of being like everyone else. Because you want a family. And that's ok. It's the place where I started these contemplations all those years ago. I wish you a happy family Emma, I do! But I don't want to be responsible for anybody else's pain but mine. Sorry if I was an asshole to you, I don't mean to be. Forgive me, it's a subject I have fallen into deeply and I don't wish the same for you! Forget these video's and go out and create your dream!

@@sleepers123 I don’t consider you an A hole. I understand you don’t want children to suffer. It’s a good thing you don’t want that, most ppl have children without even caring what life they end up in aslong they have the status of a parent to feel important instead of considering if their children will be happy being put here. Because the decision is made for them and they have no say. I don’t trust The government and the police. There is heaps of injustice. Kind ppl are mistreated and ppl who abuse are protected. Just look at public schools 98% of all students deal with bullying. But who will go to the principle when the bully is put in place? The victim. There are so many diseases so many evil people. But still I wished life was like a paradise.

@@sleepers123 can I conclude something like "don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you" from your perspective? Because you don't want to be here so you also don't want your kids to feel the same?

this isnt a term for being depressed. Its a term that its better to not exists but if you DO EXISTS you need to feel sorry for other humans( they didnt choose to exist either). Thats why you cant do suicide because you creates more suffering to other humans. The only thing you can do is doing people as less pain as possible. HOping life ends soon. But still if you're depressed you dont understand this theory very well. Im not pointing a finger at you; im not here to irritate y ou. Just to help you . Peace

Do you have aby professional help?

@@parmenides5032 this is not constructive or helpful

@@amask99 yes I’ve been seeing a therapist for about 6 months now

@@bleeka325 I hope you'll notice a progress sonn

It's impossible for a highly intelligent empathic person to be happy in this world knowing pain and suffering is more common than fulfilment, contentment, being comfortable and the fact there is little to nothing we can do to bring a better life to those who suffer daily

Ich fühle dich

Maybe you're (clinically) depressed

@@jghifiversveiws8729 or maybe this individual isn't delusional about life and can see things for what they really are

@@redrustyhill2 Both are possible but neither is all that desireable.

not objective mister dumb puck come again and say average

Interesting thought, brad.

The factors that caused the worst life matter, not the existence itself

@@gleelights9525 Society isn't diligent enough to prevent ALL the factors. Only the practice of antinatalism is. The next child abuser is developing even as we speak, whats the action plan of you pro-lifers to fix him? WAIT till he already does the crime?Hahahahahaha!

That's not a fair assessment though, as you're judging all of existence by one extreme. That's like conducting a study and only using the highest data points, it completely skews the results.

damn that sucks lol can't relate

I mean true but I think life can be enjoyable and much better but for that people need change this world much I dream once to see how human will most value resource and not just another slave of system I am personally as guy with weak psycho and many complexes and low self esteem think my parents did mistake that made me I was born in shitty environment and some kids around me used my weakness to make fun of me its sucks but have what have

Perhaps a solution could be to strive for wealth. You will have a purpose, you will be more capable of changing/influencing your surroundings and you will have more leverage to be and express who you truly are (perhaps that will leed to inner peace?) and also helping/inspiring others.

@@KasperDahlTangen Striving for wealth definitely will not lead to inner peace. It can make your life comfortable in some ways, but inner peace is absolutely not one of them.

@@godofdeath8785 yeah, but changing the world is a very difficult task, and adults have to spend a lot of time working just to live. i don’t wanna imagine the world as idyllic, cuz it isn’t, and it won’t be in my lifetime.

@@AlexisTwoLastNames well I more interested in changing world than find girls and make kids so if I will find nice thing to earn money and live alone I will have enough time I think

I had this discussion with my mother recently. She was talking about how scared she was to get old and decrepit and go downhill, and lose everything she once was, and then die. And I was like, "And yet you chose to have children, and condemn us to the same fate..." And she got pissed at me and said, "Nobody thinks about that when they're young and in love and having babies!" And I'm like -- Well, maybe they SHOULD. But apparently I'm the weird one because I actually HAVE thought about those things.

I had thought the same way in my teen years, but lately I found out that I wanted to be here and others too :) there is no such thing "nonexistence" this concept was invented by the intellect.

what if she had said, "So that i can love you" and gives you a big warm hug. ? Yeah, i never had any of that either.

Exactly....do we are born just so we can die? And in the inbetween, we experience a life of suffering with a few good/happy moments sprinkled about just to keep us somewhat content? No thank you! The minority deciding what the majority will fo, be, how they will live? That is not freedom. We don't truly have free will in this world. The world is getting worse because of the systems that were put in place to CONTROL us.

Reminds me of the time my sister asked my dad why he wanted kids. He said he loved babies, bottles, cuddles, onesies, etc. we asked “okay, well didn’t you realize we would grow up to be adults, and you would have to teach us shit?” He said, “not really. I didn’t think that far ahead. I just loved babies” annoyed the hell out of me. He wasn’t super involved when I was preteen/teenager. My mom did most of the raising after the baby stage.

Dude you're 13, you'll be fine

@@passthebleach9745He won’t.

Haha

Can't expect a human to be too happy about coming out of a vag. Can they even breathe?

First thought in the baby's mind, "Im fucked!"

Brilliant

Never thought of it like that. Thank you ever so much! It is believed that they start crying to start breathing. Well, why the hell not start laughing to start breathing?! Right on!

no shit sherlock. people make kids because thats how we dont go extinct

@@magnoliy08 Yea. Children are tools for us so that we can exploit them to continue our species.

​​@@Wabbajack-kj2kg😂 because for what reason should the human species continue ?! 🥺

@@krystalizedmagic4894 No reason at all.

How could this makes you "happy"? Hating life is fundamentally a depressing idea

Thank you.

👍👍👏👏

The fundemental flaw with Antinatalism and a lot of other ideologies such as Utilitarianism, which presupposes this reductionist binary world view of pleasure vs suffering/misery and working on the basis that pleasure equates good and likewise with Suffering and "bad", is that that's simply not the case. That is in essence, the crux of my refutation. There is so much more complexity the universe and our understanding and fundamental subjective experience of it that trying to reduce it down to simply just "happy and not happy" or even "bad and good" is absurd. I simply reject the idea that we ought to maximise happiness and "end suffering" for that is an incredibly ridiculous oversight. The idea that "life is torture" and ergo not worth living is a false narrative. Sure there is nothing wrong with striving to have a happy life but the implication that the ideal life would be one that is without sorrow or any kind of misery/suffering and "always happy" is, or to me at least, extremely unreasonable.

@@existentialduck6190 Thank you for your comment! It's always refreshing to see someone push back against this anti-life narrative that seems so popular these days. Yes, to live is to suffer and be in pain, but why is that a bad thing?

@@existentialduck6190 it's obvious that you haven't suffered enough

There are always other people who feel the same way. Whether that is meaningful to you or not is another thing.

If you had never been born, then instead of it being your conscious experience right now, it'd instead be one of the consciousnesses that are occuring right now. This is because only experience is experienced. Your lack of existence would not be a sort of "black void of Nothingness".

There’s a philosophy behind almost everything what do you think philosophy is? No matter how idiotic

@@dmacrolens there are always people equally as stupid

How egotistical and in your own head do you have to be to think you were the only one?? This generation likes to say shit like this a lot.

also we get shut down by society for expressing negative views for life..

Well said.

God is not a sadist, the Bible explains why things are the way they are.

But they might also find happiness, achieve greatness to some degree, and find something worth living for.

@@loganpharis6747 that's the dream. personally i don't believe it's selfish to have kids per se, but people are simply afraid that their depressive tendencies/bad genes will appear in their child, which is totally justified to a certain extent.

@@nyom4297 If someone doesn't think that they're fit to have kids then that's fair, I just find the reasoning of "it's selfish and bad to have kids because suffering exists" to be silly, it laser-focuses on suffering and seems akin to giving up. If the world truly does suck as much as antinatalists say, then throwing in the towel will not help it get better.

@@loganpharis6747 actually a really good point to bring up. imo both sides of the argument severely misunderstand each other, which only makes the argument worse. personally I think you should be fit to fully raise a child if you want to have a child. its not selfish to follow natural instincts, but sometimes they can get the better of you. likewise, having no children in the modern world is not selfish. what I think is the problem is that both sides are biased. the side against birth is fundamentally fueled with pessimism while the side advocating for birth is relatively naive and optimistic. I myself don't hold any of these viewpoints and feel like they could both learn a thing or two from each other, although that's wishful thinking. its not their fault that theyre so focused on eradicating suffering, either. its a thing commonly found in people who were neglected growing up, which is likely why they think having a child experience what theyve experienced would be a bad idea. of course, having babies is not always the best idea, but its far from the worst. imo what we should focus on is not to eradicate suffering, but rather to embrace it. thats not gonna be easy to do

@@nyom4297 Interesting, I think you're right about the fact the the different sides approach the subject from different fundamental angles. I'm of the opinion that if life doesn't seem worth living at the moment then one should do something about it and make it worth living, but admittedly I haven't been great at following this, myself. Also, I'm not sure that we should embrace suffering per se, but we should I think atleast be prepared to live with it to some degree, to accept it as a reality of life.

turtlebuttmudd We need a string on why we name ourselves these names. Lol. Good that you and your wife have one another and that you think as you do!

Your ancestors had to go through famines, wars, sieges, raids, TRULY hard times. Yet they still had children. They had 10 children. That'd the only reason you exist right now. Yet you complain about this? Even a poor person in a first world country has more comfortable life full of resources needed to live a descent life than ever before in history, and yet we're more depressed than ever. Comfort ruins men. This kind of dysgenic thinking is all the product of the unnatural, civilized way of life. Victims of our own success we are.

I am proud of you! Hope you get out debt soon! Best wishes with that! So the child you adopt might have a great life.

Beautiful way of putting it, not wanting to have your own children necessarily but not ruling out giving an unfortunate soul a second chance at love, I'm on the same page

Yes, suppression of evolutionary urges and not doing the things that caused us to flourish as a species is obviously what’s good for us as a species. Just like all the other living things on earth do.

True ! That's why I didn't liked the concept of school and homework. It's making sense now after 10+ years

Me too. I’ve felt the same way since I developed the capacity to think. All this time I’ve just asked myself a simple question; why do I have to go through this hell each day?

❤❤❤, you’re not alone. Antinatalism is growing

We're here. We just get shunned cause they think we're sick in the head

💪

I suffer from physical pain cauuse of chronic illnesseses. Multiple ones. No way am I doing that to someone

what are you going through? And how have u been

It goes further still: instinct is the driver of all actions and thoughts; yet instinct was never chosen. First, the environment created instinct; then, the environment gave upbringing; finally, the environment offered a playground for the moment's reaction. In conclusion, choice has been absent all along. The environment simply flows and transforms, all the while wondering why, from the mind of many eyes.

How is that a paradox? If we had the ability to choose to exist, then that would be a paradox, since how can you make a decision if you don’t exist?

@@FalseCogs That’s what I was talking about. I meant that the original point wasn’t a paradox.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's

​@@no8592 Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.

Good

hullo fellow aroace

@@fvhloof hello other aro ace

@@captainspaceboy Greetings fellow aroace

🤮

Another aroace! Yea I agree with ya

Extreme cope

Pog

Well do you want to have children?

@@FormerBadGuy what do you think? “It has been a wonderful life” seems like she doesn’t regret it lol

Goals

Yes we are trapped

@@Masua90 I didn’t get my vasectomy in US, I’m from an Asian country and it’s even HARDER to get the surgery before marriage/or giving birth. It’s like the society is forcing people to give birth and it disgusts me a lot. I’ve asked a total of 6 different doctors to luckily find one who is willing to give me the surgery. It’s crazy to me how my right to not have children is stopped by governmental laws.

@@henrylai9593 Your story reminded me of a colleague who already has 2 children. Around the time she had her 2nd child (she wasn't in her 30s yet that time), she wanted to get the tubal ligation because she didn't want more kids. She told us that the doctor/s she's talked to, strongly suggested her not to get it because they said that she's still young and she'll change her mind.

@@kyen685 after 2 kids? Damn, doctors can be a-holes sometimes

I respect your decision. Society has its own selfish reasons for forcing people to have children. Government and business always need a new generation of worker-bees to fuel its revenue generating machine. It needs a new crop of people to fight their wars. It’s clear that society cares little for people. Follow your heart and mind. It’s your life. Live by your own rules and values. Peace.

I'm sure you've been asked many times but are you sure you won't regret ? You're only 23 years old

Especially when their parents teach them that the world revolves around them and bows to their whim. They are going to be in for a rude awakening.

@@Whimsy3692 Right? My sister in law wouldn’t even let me read out the epitaph on the cat grave we were walking by when my nephew was younger.

Right? I just can’t see how someone can justify life’s misery with simple temporary coping measures some people count as “pleasure”.

" I feel bad when I see young children because I know there will be some horror waiting for them in the future." Is literally how I feel on a daily basis.

@@elwiito8242 i didnt have a horrible future disproven

I am Michael Jackson

The only person who is worthy enough to have kids is someone who is willing to be careful, humble, and responsible enough to not make it all out themselves and what they want. They should think about what the future child would want and whether or not whatever life and family you bring them into is good. You should be prepared to be a good role model first regarding how you are as a human being because the child will have to put up and live with the way you are while growing up with you. Children replicate what they see from their parents. If you do not care and are not willing to do any of those things first, then you are not worthy to have children. Why am I saying this? Because procreation is not a game. Sex for pleasure in marriage is one thing, but procreation is a whole another. It’s not just a baby, it’s another human being with feelings, a soul, and a conscience that can be affected in the mind and in the heart just like you, me, and everyone else in this world. Once you procreate, there’s no going back. You can’t abort it because then that’s murder.

@@arcticangel1628 that is NOT what he is saying. What he is saying is that you shouldn't subject another human to existing. My parents were both great, however I would still rather the peace of not existing in the first place.

@@Favoki I know, but I’m just giving my perspective. I wasn’t interpreting what he said as something else.

suffering with short happy breaks is preferable to not existing, that just sounds boring

What about when we get old and alone?

@@mitch5222 What if you have a child that refuses to take care of you in old age? There is no guarantee that no matter how good a parent you are that your child will, by their own nature, be disconnected from you. You will still be alone, but sad as well because of them.

@@Muthurtucker ha so true!

@@mitch5222 most humans do not even realize that they are being selfish and cruel. they treat having kids as a form of insurance for their future selves, assuming kids grow up to care for the parents. this is probably the most blatant form of the selfishness of human procreation. this is just using another person, without consent, for your own benefit.

@@mitch5222 as opposed to being young and alone?