She may not be 100% Mary Sue, but she has ONE crazy plot armor.

Marinette is not a complete Mary-Sue. She is just a badly written character is all. She is downright problematic and the worst thing is, she gets away with it, in the series and apparently in the fandom as well. She had her flaws but apparently the writer never actually used them to actually develop her character, hence the Mary-Sueness.

Personality wise, the show does give her relatable flaws and gosls, but it never calls out her blatantly bad behavior, like her stalking Adrien and the way she treated Kagami before they came proper friends. It either handwaves it or outright encourages it. Derision is a good example of this because it explains *why* she stalks Adrien, but the show never says it's a bad thing, just one her "quirks." And there's also the matter of her getting *way* more attention than the other characters, especially Chat Noir.

Honestly, considering the way how the Agreste saga was written, Marinette almost felt like a self-insert Mary Sue character that has been artificially inserted into Adrien's story. Both Mari and Adrien deserved better writing...

My biggest issue with Marrinette is that, once she stood up to Chloe, she IMMEDIATELY started bullying her. The show is also just an absolute mess when it comes to morality.

I think a big part of what makes her a Mary-Sue is her hyper competency as a miraculous holder. You have users like Adrien and Kagame who have trained all their lives to fight in hand to hand and sword play but Marinette the “clumsy” art/fashion enthusiast who’s never fought a day in her life was able to jump in and show them up at every turn. And outside of one clip where we see her jogging I don’t think we’ve ever seen her actually train or practice. Yeah I know on the job training is effective but she got good almost immediately while they have Adrien continue to flounder around most of the time. It’s so weird that Asterick gives him this active background in fighting but makes him the worst fighter.

I used to think that, but looking back, she's in a bit of a strange situation. I've noticed that the narrative does make her apologize when she hurts her friends when she doesn't mean it. But I also noticed that she would sometimes apologize even when it's not her fault, and even though I honestly dislike her character, I do think it's unfair. However, I did notice something else. When it comes to her obsession and stalkerish behavior, it's like the show doesn't acknowledge them as flaws. In fact, the narrative seems to normalize and encourage such behavior. In other words, the show does indeed acknowledge certain flaws of Marinette's and is even willing to let her take the blame for something that isn't her fault. BUT, the show also doesn't let her face proper consequences for her stalkerish behavior, which is honestly really bad because they're letting young children think that this kind of behavior is acceptable.

I’d argue for the Season 4 finale when Marinette lost the Miraculouses it really wasn’t due to some flaw of hers, even if the show is trying to gaslight us into thinking that. She didn’t do anything wrong and she didn’t blindly trust Felix only because she’s in love with Adrien. If anything, she did what I would assume anyone else would’ve done in her situation. When she learned that everyone had the little froggy marks she (somehow) remembered that “Adrien” didn’t, so she went to ask for his help. He was quite literally the only option she had - not only did he miss the froggy mark, but he was someone Ladybug knew well enough to trust him and to expect that he would return his Miraculous after the mission - literally no different to how in prior episodes she’s chosen all of her classmates/friends to be heroes as well. It was quite literally not her fault that Adrien and Felix just so happened to switch places that day. How could she have known? And it also wasn’t a personal weakness of hers for failing to recognize Felix because absolutely no other character has been able to do that when he’s disguised as Adrien. She didn’t fail because of a character flaw, she failed due to circumstances out of her control. But because Marinette feels guilty for it, she blamed herself for everything when it was just not her fault at all and there was nothing else she could’ve done to prevent this.

I still remember when Santa said that Ladybug was the best behaved kid in the whole world and like... Maybe he really WAS just talking about Ladybug and not Marinette, but like... Really???

….honestly Zoe is a bigger Mary Sue than Marinette. I will die on this hill. Marinette has her Mary Sue moments but I think Zoe is the DEFINITION of a Mary Sue. She immediately befriends the main protag on her first episode. She lands a spot on the miraculous team the episode RIGHT AFTER her debut episode. (While everyone else had to wait for their respective miraculi for much longer) She has no problems using the bee miraculous (though that could be said for most of the temp heroes) She is immediately liked by everyone (except Chloe because of course) And is given a star role right off the back in the class project in Queen Banana when the role could have been played by anyone. She’s chosen by Plagg to wield the cat miraculous (when there were other choices (LUKA, KAGAMI, NINO (though I understand why Nino wasn’t picked)) All of her flaws were solved in her debut episode so she has little to no flaws. In fact the only flaw that I feel like she has is how incredibly mid of a character she is being despite ALL of this, the writers have done nothing compelling with her character. She’s just nice….and that’s it-

While Marinette is not a self-insert of Astruc, her father Tom is one. And for years I've heard rumours that her mother Sabine is modelled after an ex girlfriend Astruc had (who was chinese too), so in this sense, Marinette is like the fantasy daughter of himself and his ex.

She survived getting punched into a wall by Monarch without any powers. She's either a Marysue or has OP plot armor.

“Marionette is not a self insert of Astruct.” Marinette’s father is named “Thomas” and he admitted to Marinette being the imagined love child between him and his crush at the time, so...

As a person who loves the osp channel, i strongly agree with the mary sue criteria “If the character bends the story to their favor that it makes it unrealistic” and “they are the center of the universe “ which, yeah by that she is a mary sue and a terribly written character

Chloe wasn't entirely a trash character, Astruc basically thinks she is trash, spoiled, rotten, and unforgivable. We the audience see her as a flawed and complex character since her mother isn't around and treats her father like a slave to her. But we all know that she has layers to what made her act that way. Chloe is not a terrible person, but Thomas doesn't give a damn, he thinks Chloe is a monster and Lila is a redeeming character.

Not to mention she has a 'tragic backstory', which is what most Mary-Sues have.

She is a Mary Sue imo… just bc she doesn’t have every single characteristic of a Mary Sue doesn’t mean that she’s NOT one 🤨 like she still is one

I say she is. The intro talks about how she is an “ordinary girl” but the average teenager is not that popular, nor skilled at so many things. I remember that scene where Zoe meets all of Marinette’s friends on the barge and thinking isn’t that almost her whole class? That and how every episode she is treated like she is 100% right (except the finale) and doesn’t need to learn anything makes her very Mary Sue. It’s seldom you get a Mary Sue that meets all the qualifications. I think it counts since she meets most of them.

i wish cat noir and ladybug were equal but we all know that will never happen

While I don't think Marinette is 100% a Mary-Sue, she definitely has a lot of the qualities of one. I think the real problem she suffers from is poor writing.

Three words Marinette's actions portrayed if she were in the real world: Restraining order and JAIL 🔒⛓️🚨🚔

Is Marinette a Mary Sue? The short answer: Absolutely!

She's been a Mary-Sue for years and it's taking a good portion of the fandom to realize what I've been saying for years.🙄

She sure is cutting it close as of the awful S5 finale, my GOD. The show is called Miraculous Tales of Ladybug _AND_ Chat Noir, yet the show has been progressively insisting more and more that Ladybug and Marinette are the only ones that matter to the story, as if the writers didn't make the conscious decision to make Adrien/Chat Noir's entire *character* and *plotline* be tied to the main villain and the ramifications of that. Yet, what happens in S5? Adrien isn't allowed to learn any major revelations about Monarch or his dad. Instead, they're both basically _handed to Marinette_ because she's Ladybug. She never even investigates this on her own. Felix and Kagami have to come out of nowhere to hand her the answer while Adrien is literally written out of the resolution of HIS OWN FAMILY TRAGEDY just so Marinette can solve it on her own. And yeah, she doesn't really solve it, but she's still the only one out of our two deuteragonists present for it. And the major trait that makes Mary Sues annoying is that the story will bend in on itself to keep the Sue at the center. There was literally no reason why Adrien couldn't learn that his own father was Monarch. Even if you wanna ignore the whole Sentimonster plot line and have Adrien learn that later, there is *no reason* why Adrien, *the son of Monarch and the primary victim of the Agreste Family Tragedy* couldn't be there for the resolution. No, instead they're gonna push it off to S6 where Adrien can't even confront Gabe on his abuse.

I think she is a Mary-sue because the very few flaws she has are always justified or forgiven in some way. Like her being a creep to Adrian is justified because of her stuff with Kim. Her “wanting to know everything about someone” before liking them is not valid because she only liked Adrian for his looks 😭 she fawns over him because he’s a model just like everyone else but takes it a step too far by stalking him and breaking into his home multiple times. I also don’t like how every villain or adversary in the show is just..characters who also like Adrien but dislike Mari. Like yes, Lila is a liar, Chloe is stuck up and rude, but why can’t Mari just take the high road and focus on her self and her friends?? She goes out of her way to “expose” and “get back” at those girls. How about you go spend some time with your Parents who your always ditching for a boy 😭😭😭

Marinette case of Mary Sue is even worse. She is rewarded even when she mess up, she cause the miraculous box being stolen the first time, and she is rewarded as being the guardian (even though she lost the bee miraculous previously). She lose all the miraculous, and all Paris chant her name to give her support, and Sun Han even apologize to her (even though her mistakes proved him right that she was not ready at all to be the guardian). Her crush with Adrien cause her to lose her and Chat noir miraculous and she now is the girlfriend of Adrien. And later she lose those miraculous AGAIN, and she is rewarded as the leader of the team and still being trusted as the guardian (even though she must be the worst guardian ever, (although not entirely her fault)). The worst part is that she still is praised as the best, even though Chat Noise have messed up less than her Also when the ladybug and cat miraculous were stolen the first time, she also had super speed, cause she witnessed the location of Hawkmoth, manage to go to her house, could prepare a disguise with a helmet and a fake lucky charm, go to Monarch, hide the fake lucky charm in the span of seconds. Or when she manages to replace a mirror in the portable bathroom, install microphones in order to revela Lila true identity

One of her main problems always comes down to her relationship with adrian. Every single time something bad happens it because of her obsession. Cat blanc caused she used her powers to get in his room, ephemeral cause she didn't tell luka to use second chance, heart hunter caused because of her jealousy picked kagami to help and was so distracted went to fu without detransforming, volpina and strike back for obvious reasons About the writing, another problem is that the writers can't give up the spotlight. Has lots of other shows where it has other characters getting the spotlight and the main character takes a supporting role or barely any role. Which is why the adrian focus ep in season 5 was my favorite. It let him shine while marinette actually took the back seat for once and didn't let her be the saving grace

Compared to Chloe and Lila, Marinette will sink to their level if needed in their fued. Marinette has done creepy, mean, and criminally questionable actions in the show.

Cyrus has been calling her "Mari-sue" for a while and made a bunch of points so- yea gotta say yes

The thing is, when she makes mistakes (like accidentally exposing Fuu’s identity, or losing the box), no one blames her, instead they comfort her. But when Adrien makes a mistakes, both Ladybug and the show treats him as incompetent.

Oh she's absolutely a Mary-Sue. Her biggest "flaw" is that she's clumsy. Anyone who doesn't get along with her is evil beyond redemption, she's beloved by pretty much everyone else in the show. Only SHE can come up with solutions as Ladybug and Fu even declared her the best Ladybug of all time (exactly how many ladybugs has he seen in action anyway for him to determine that?). She's won the attention and admiration of big fashion designers in the industry, a internationally famous rocker commissioned HER to make his album cover, she's never wrong about anything ever and the slightest possibility that she might be, there are no real consequences or stakes. Pretty much every guy in her class has crushed on her at some point. The list goes on she is a badly written character. Don't even get me started on her absolutely DEMENTED stalking of Adrien.

I feel like the only way to actually redeem her would have been to make Adrien straight up reject her and never get with her/reciprocate her feelings. But no, instead her four seasons of stalking are rewarded, and she gets the guy she stalked and harassed...Very dangerous message to send to kids, for me at least. And the worst part is that Adrien will never know she did all this.

I hated *hated HATED* Chloe being the anti-sue. Nothing but flaws. I was just so angry because people just aren't like that irl!

Yup, she is not 100% Mary Sue, just 99% Mary Sue

No, but like even at the end of season 4, she only makes that “mistake” because she’s being influenced by risk. It kinda just feels like the writers literally saying, “she literally NEVER does any wrong! The only way she can fail is if she’s literally being magically forced to!”. Kinda ruins that as a character flaw for me 🥲 like why couldn’t we just have her be impulsive and make a understandable mistake there

Now that Marinette not only has to hide the fact that she's Ladybug/Guardian, AND that Gabe was Monarch and that whole thing was a farce, maybe they can use that to make her more flawed, hiding things and being dishonest to Adrien, throwing a wrench in their new relationship. kinda like that one episode with Luka. Except preferably not in just one episode.

Lets be honest here marinette is definitely a mary sue. Her flaws seems to be more lke quirks if anything. I mean her reason to like adrien was just that umbrella scene. Thats not enough. She didnt get to know him much because how flustered she gets when shes around him. Heck her friends even try to help her with it instead of telling her that her stalking and knowing adriens schedule is creepy and not healthy. I know that they then explain why shes like this but that isnt much of excuse for her friends not telling its wrong plus this shows that kim isnt as a "nice guy" like he seems to be. I guess that losing the miraculous wasnt her fault but she had 2 tries to get them back or at least the most dangerous ones to minimize the danger a bit but she didnt. All her problems she seems she could fix so there is no one to repermend her since Su Han only appears once or twice, Alya trust marinette until lila's lies came out and chat noir/Adrien loves ladybug so much that he doesnt have the guts to tell her when shes wrong.

I feel like Marinette is close to becomming a Mary Sue, but isn't there yet. For seasons 1 to 4, I don't believe she's one. She doesn't have many flaws, but the writing didn't go out of their way to fix her flaws at the cost of other characters. In my opinion, that did change in season 5. Her 2 main flaws (being a stalker to Adrien and losing the Miraculous to Felix and Gabe) are being fixed in a very unsatisfying way: - For the stalking: Blaming Chloe and her bullying for her stalking behaviour instead of her acknowledging it herself and accepting that it's not ok to behave like that is a very poor writing decision - For the Miraculous: Even tough she felt guilty in the beginning of the season and tried to go after Felix in episode 2, her heroing quickly reverted to beating the villain of the week, instead of trying to recover the Miraculous. In the end, she alone got told the Agreste backstory out of nowhere and went 1 on 1 with Gabe, coming out as the winner, with Cat Noir being completely left in the dark of what happened (at least, that's what I understood out of the ending scene in the finale). The writing did a very poor job of making Cat Noir an equal partner to Ladybug and helping her getting the Miraculous back, fixing the issue that Marinette/Ladybug had. At the end of season 5, everybody has their own Miraculous now, so Cat Noir now is truly exactly the same as every other superhero. I feel like that's a very poor fix for the conflict of season 4. I feel like these 2 decisions in the writing puts her in danger of becomming a Mary Sue, but to to the other 4 seasons, she isn't there yet. We'll have to see whenever season 6 releases, if this trend continues or not

Is Marinette a Mary Sue? Without even clicking on the video: YES. But I've heard from Cyrus the Great that there's nothing wrong with making a Mary Sue if they're meant to be comedic- but Mari isn't comedic in every aspect.

The moment I say the title I clicked. Happy Thanksgiving Smarty and truly thanks for this Miraculous video. (As usual I do highly enjoy when you create them) She is the definition of a Mari-Sue. Yes I spelled it that way on purpose. No, I don't believe it was an accident of her writing at all. Since season 1 to the end on season 5 and waiting on season 6 that hasn't changed. Miraculous tries to state balance/equality between characters when it's all about just one girl being in control and all the guy heroes ESPECIALLY HER SUPPOSED PARTNER SECOND PROTAGONIST CATTASTIC KITTY CAT NOIR just being her yes men. As Shadybug yelled at her before basically turning into her at the end. "I don't have your nice little life. No amazing BFF, no awesome girlfriends to inspire me everyday, let alone a calm/gentle mom or a boyfriend who doesn't think I'm a total loser." So yes, completely and undeniably Marinette Dupain-Cheng is a horrible and true definition example of Mary-Sue, that won't ever change. Everybody worships her in both her persons. Everyone have a blessed Thursday November 23, 2023 at 8:25AM. 🌸🔥🌸🔥🌸

Its so annoying how the writers think that PTSD can explain stalking. PTSD leads to isolation. ALSO, if she was traumatised how woukd she not get a reaction or at least a bit paranoid when near chloe or kim. I will actually bet money that they just pulled this out of their ass because of the hate.

I have been saying fir a while they made Adrian more interesting but he does rarely nothing as cat noir 😢

I've said this on another Miraculous video, but I compare Marinette to Peter Parker quite a lot. The difference? Peter actually has struggles when he has to balance with Spider-man a lot. But Marinette had this happen to her at the end of season 4 and that's it (to my knowledge, I don't really watch the show myself anymore) So I'd say that in comparison to Peter, she is quite the Mary Sue. Just like you said, not fully, but mostly

Marionette is a character who has a lots of missed potential she could’ve been an intresting character had they given her flaws and had consequences for her mistakes and creepy stalking behaviour. Like many things in miraculous she suffers from bad writing

I feel like early Marinette wasn't much of a Mary Sue. Is anyone here a fan of Alix or Kagami?

Marinettes biggest flaw is that she is a people pleaser and incredibly impulsive. Like she takes on too much because she can’t say no which gets her in situations like when she had to babysit and be at an interview at the same time. She makes stupid impulsive decisions that she later has to fix. And she lacks good communication skills with chat noir pushing him away instead of talking to him and explaining why she’s afraid to rely on him. All these flaws do cause problems for her the problem is that all her problems are almost always fixed within the episode or are never really placing the blame on her even when it should. She has some interesting flaws and stuff but they’re never fully explored.

1:20 well actually... funny thing in a tweet Thomas said that Marinette was his fictional child with a ex girlfriend who was chinese, and that's why Marinette father is called Tom, even worse in original concept, marinette parents didn't own a bakery, sabine was a lawyer and tom was a cartoonist, so there you have it

If Miraculous would sticked to having Marinette with a better personality the story would move forward

so what your saying is.... she's a, SUE-per hero

Matter of fact, she doesn't need to have ALL the characteristics of a Mary Sue to be classified as one, she just needs to have the majority of them for the classification to count ; and i think she qualifies a lot. There is clear favoritism from Thomas Astrucc towards her, and i think the genre and target audiences (as well as the fake Feminism of the creator) are just excuses to raise Marinette above the others. Adrienne, Gabriel, Nathaliè, Chloè, Lila Rossi, Kagami, Felix...heck i could keep going...are ALL more interesting and complex than Marinette that just breezes through life and all issues she comes across. A problem the main character can easily solve or walk away from, is also a conflict that the audience can walk away from beceause there are NO stakes involved! Marinette is almost a full blown Mary Sue at worst, and a weak protagonist at best.

To me Mary-Sue just means a character who makes the narrative bend to her will. Everyone who loves her is rewarded, everyone who hates/dislikes her is punished. She has "flaws" but they don't hold weight unless they directly concern her heroes journey to greatness. She's just a boring, yet frustrating character to watch.

if she wasn't clumsy, she'd literally be the embodiment of a Mary-sue

The issue with her "one big flaw" is that it didnt make the 5th seasons encounters any more difficult, she never once had to improvise something because she didnt have a tertiary hero, and it directly led to Gabriel being more careless because he *thought* he was more powerful which led directly to him being defeated. If a "negative" actually turns out to be a positive with no real consequences, was it ever really a negative? Things that should have happened as a result of her losing the other miraculous but didnt: -Su Han immediately turning against her due to proving she was not capable after all -Gabriel becoming much more deadly due to having many more powers. Remember how Sentimonsters made old villains legitimately more difficult to defeat and some of them came down to hail marys? -Related, possibly Gabriel immediately winning due to how OP some of the Miraculous are. Obviously this one gets a pass because it cant happen, but still. Dont write and obvious win con for your villain and then give it to him if he cant be allowed to use it. -Marinette having times when she could win very easily if she had access to a certain Miraculous, and having to come up with a much more difficult plan because she doesn't. The fact that she avoids all the consequences of her actions *again* and only gets rewarded for it proves that shes a Sue.

Ohhhh so excited to hear you talk about this again ❤

tbh far in the s3 days it was kinda obvious MArinette had her flaws, and in s4, it's shown that she's grown from them, little by litter, but she did try her best Then in s5 she is suddenly the Most Perfect Girl on Earth, and that there is nothing she could ever do wrong. Why? Because apparently her stalking is justified because - 1. She did it out of love 2. A 'flashback' that was never acknowledged in the earlier episodes show that she resorted to stalking because Kim was actually a mean person along with being a friend to Chloe, so the next time she fell in love with someone, she was obligated to stalk them, even if Adrien NOT being mean towards Marinette is what made her fall for him in the first place 3. Lila does WORSE stalking of her own which is NOT out of love and some other creepy shit to compare with Marinette's 'innocent' stalking. Which was revealed in s5 btw The direction Miraculous Ladybug is going right now kinda reminds me of fucking Shield Hero. Our main character is an optimistic ray of sunshine completely broken by the Evil Older Princess who is responsible for pretty much any bad thing that happens in the series, despite other factors contributing to her 'evilness'. Because of the horrible past of people who suffered her, the Mean Princess is finally brought to justice...several times...only for her to escape otherwise. Spoilers downward Then our Evil Princess has a fucking abusive mom (yes I DID say abusive...and am quite surprised at the lack of calling out fucking MIREILLA or whatever her name is over her daughter), a dad who spoiled her until he said "fuck it" and a younger sister whom they replaced her with. And then, there's this fucking ex of hers who is pretty much the OTHER Mary Sue of the series (after our protag of course) and is pretty much a lot more 'eviller' than the character you are supposed to direct your vitriol to Meanwhile, our MC barely gets their flaws addressed, and at the end, they are left fucking blameless. Literally everyone who does not stand with them is now their fucking cheerleader (this is why takt is my favorite character despite never having read the rotsh ln itse-) Also the fact that MArinette is supposedly awfully strong in both, physical and mental specs, as well as her getting a flatout 100% despite us never really seeing her study awfully hard, and her superhero responsibility makes me feel...awfully jealous. Like maybe acing a test is a piece of cake to the target audience if they put their minds to it, but as someone studying the easiest of tenth grade courses, I am in literal hell. Studying is one thing, acing a goddamn test is completely different

In my opinion, Marinette is more of a poorly written good guy. Even at one point if she was a mary-sue, I feel like its not the case with all the trauma, heartbreak and growth she had during season 3, 4 and 5. Not to mention how the movie portrayed her, The writing just sucks in the show.

Reminder that Mary Sues can have flaws, but these flaws can be used to further give the Mary Sue further attention by making them look pitiful, turning them into a Sympathy Sue. However, these attempts end up being hollow as these flaws or obstacles barely affect the narrative and is only there for cheap drama (in Mari's chase, the whole not believing her over Lila situation). As for Marinette, I think she's a bit of both, she's a Mary Sue in some aspects and a Sympathy Sue in others. However, she's also not fully a sue since there are some interesting bits of her character. I think Mari is bordering on being a sue.

There are a few children's shows with character's that are Mary Sues - the important thing is t o remember too also make the character likeable

That would be Zoe lee😴

I agree that it's absolutely insane how Gabriel is the one who feels like the underdog, even with basically everything at his fingertips!

One of the biggest problems is that Hawk Moth can't win or the show is basically "over". Should HM actually succeed even once, meaning acquiring the ladybug and black cat miraculous, that's it. They should have made his goals more nebulous, like he has to collect some type of energy or the pieces of some magical maguffin. That way, HM can have the occasional win without it meaning absolute victory for him. There's also the issue that he's been the main antagonist for far too long.

Look, daiko only rarely loses, because losing would mean death XD His biggest loss, however, wasn’t a fight he couldn’t win. It was a friend he couldn’t save. Literally, Tousens head exploded on him.

I would say she is, but she also isn’t. In terms of overcoming conflicts or finding out solutions or beating the villains, she most definitely is. She somehow has more plot armor than Batman himself (and I say that as someone who loves Batman). Seriously, why is Cat Noir even here if Ladybug’s powers literally does everything to solve the problem. He’s power is rendered useless if Ladybug is strong enough to the object herself. And as for the Agreste Arc, she barely has any connection to what is going on yet she’s the one who solves everything while the son of the villain has no clue what even happened. But in terms of character traits and stuff like that, she isn’t really, but she is not far from falling into that category. She has goals and qualities that anyone could relate to, but her big character flaws (her creepy and stalkerish behavior towards Adrien), are not really treated as flaws, in fact they’re brushed off as a joke most of the time, and that is not a good thing. So, to quote Mephiles the Dark: “The answer is yes and no.” At least in my opinion, anyway.

Yes she is a complete Mary sue. People just are salty and don't want to admit it

I'm still stuck on how Marinette had a crush on Kim prior to the show beginning before Adrien came into the picture. I feel like there's more to her than what I thought.

gotta be honest, I would love to have seen the show be from the perspective of gabe, portraying him as a good guy (Ik, he isn't, but let's just imagine) he lost his wife because of his desire to have a son, he hates himself for making that choice and not just letting things happen naturally, (not being able to have kids) and he silently resents his son because if Adrien was never born Emily would still be alive. him and his son's relationship is damaged past repair, the love of his life is gone, and he is all alone. He goes down a dark path to do anything he can to get his wife back, as he believes that will fix everything. when he finally starts to have hope that he can have a family again he is stopped over and over again by a child who he believes is undeserving of the boundless powers she has been given and could never understand what he is going through because she has never felt hardship in her entire life. that same child is also driving his son further and further away from him. Gabe believes that there is nothing this girl wouldn't do to ruin his life and make sure that he never gets his family back.

This maybe off topic but I did have this one idea that the creator of the show can do. Which is make a spin-off version of the show call Miraculous What If. The series can be about what if scenarios that could happen if the chance shows itself.

It was obvious in the first season. That's why I dropped it. The series had a lot of potential, but fell very flat in its execution. I honestly could not understand the hype that went on so long. Though I did try to understand it.

I heard something about the final of the season 5. It was intended from the start to be a reversal of the story of the knight fighting a dragon to defeat the princess. Ladybug is the knight Monarch the Dragon And Adrien the Dragon trap from the dragon.

I was waiting for a ladybug video!

I wouldn't say she's completely a mary sue as she does flaws in the show. It just the bad writing of her character and favouritism as she gets treated as a parent's favourite daughter while Adrian is in the shadows alot.

The funniest review I've watched on KZfaq! Sure this is Disney we're talking about, but neither corporate or creative. This is not Disney the animation studio. This is not Disney the company. This... is Disney the distributor of superhero cartoons that are set in France.

list of Marinette's pros n cons (off the top of my head) Marinette's talents: [13] - fashion prodigy - gaming prodigy - leadership role - time n work management - class rep - popular - always learns from her mistakes - quick thinker - guardian of the miraculous - holder of the ladybug miraculous - can use the most miraculous at the same time compared to everyone else - considered attractive (she pulls) - plot armor n always wins Marinette's flaws: [5] - overthinking - stresses n panics easily - clumsy (if that counts) - emotions cloud her judgement n thinking - feels weighed/stressed from responsibility Bonus -> Marinette's b1tches (who she pulled): [6] - Luka - Adrien - Zoe - Nino - Nathaniel - that one guy from episode 'Copycat' (as Ladybug) My opinion: I agree w the video, she's mostly a Mary sue, but not too much of it. Although she does have a ton of skills/talents that outnumber her flaws, the cons are still heavy weights that can affect her and the huge responsibility she carries. Being a Mary sue is pretty common for main characters anyway especially when they have heavy plot armor.

GOOD VIDEO, MARINETTE IS A FUCKING MARI SUE, all the characters become her friends or fall in love with her as soon as they meet her All the characters, even those who are not her friends, are willing to help her in her romantic melodrama. She is the best carrier and guardian without making an effort because Marinette ''she is so unique and better than everyone'', even giving lessons to adults and the only ones who don't constantly praise her are labeled as unredeemed villains like CHLOE.

I dunno… I always saw Marinette as someone who is Neurodivergent coded, ADHD specifically. It would explain a lot of her quirks and behaviors, though I highly doubt it was intentional. I have ADHD and seeing how Marinette behaves in certain situations, regarding relationships and her overall mindset, just feels way too relatable.

One of the biggest points of an authors development is intentionally putting characters through a breaking experience, whether is be traumatic physically or emotionally, it has a lasting effect on a character of theirs that is detrimental the the story’s plot. Once at least one of your stories has one, it helps you realize all characters can’t be perfect, and something wrong needs to happen to make a story interesting. Whether it’s be a disaster or a betrayal that has ongoing pressure on the character, they can’t be perfect in at least most of aspects. Sure marinette has some trauma but it only really developes as a result of plot points that should’ve been traumatic from the get go. To put it shortly, writers are fictional masochists who need to indulge in the angsty side of stories to build a good plot.

Yes, she is. How is it even a question?

So I think Lila is a bigger mary sue

You know I don't think being a Mary Sue is inherently a problem. I've seen a couple of Mary Sue characters that people really like for one reason or another and the fact that they basically can't loose in any regard is never seen as an issue by the majority of people. Making a Mary Sue isn't really a problem by the looks of things, you just need to make the character likable.

Hm, fair and valid points and opinions, like usual for me. I get where you’re coming from and I can agree, i hope they do a better job later. Hm, honestly, i still wonder what you might think of the Feralnette Webcomic?

I have seen Reader & (insert character or fandom here) fanfics better than MLB. Where the "reader" or self insert has depth, flaws, and grows as a character. For example, I've read an amazing Fem Reader x Bakugou story called "The Reaper" on Archive of Our Own (AO3 is the acronym I believe). Hell, the fanfiction for Miraculous alone is better. They make Mari a more likeable character by taking away her stalker behavior. Like as a teen girl myself, yeah some of us do like to "stalk" our crushes, especially celebrities. But we only do online stalking. We wouldn't dare to actually sneak into the guy's house 😭

Not watching the show for a while, or recently at all, this is a lot thrown at me. It's nice to know it's gotten a bit different though lol

For reason it will can be intresting if she got some mental illness can't handle with that became unable to comunicate properly she had to gave up and give Adrien the role of guardian for some time (later he'll give it back) and he should be leader of the team we will see more of him and maybe Gabriel could starts thinking abt thr truth then Alya will become more Adrien's friend bcs of Mari problems (we see she often wants to be alone) or Alya as manipulative person (she'll help Lila) bcs of Mari being in center makes Kagami think that Mari rly should be bad friend what causes more trouble or Mari uses ring so Monarch could unmask Mari and Alya could know both Adrien and Maris secret and bcs of that she couldn't keep secret let's Nino knows who will have less trust to Adrien so he will give a guard to his father and cause issues for Mari who starts thinking Adrien is Chat and this everything will give them more personality I have much more ideas

there are countless times where marinette should have lost....that technical loss in the finale of S5 was well overdue, not deserved, but overdue....

The timetravel thing was the dumpest scene with Gabriel. There was absolute no reason, to not place the stick in the past and than go to Ladybug. All he had to do was, to open his hand. He didnt even needed to be fast. I dont remember it correctly, but i think he even knowed, that he was able to turn back time. Even if Ladybug had attacked his past self, could he simply watch the window, turn the time of the window back and than showed up to the right moment. And even, if he doesnt knowed this option, was there again the point, that he only needed to place his stick. But hey, no matter how many L he obtained in the show. At last was he truly the one, who won at the end.^^

I’m surprised that people actually like this show it’s way too childish for me personally but the aesthetics were always cool to me. I was also always bored with the main character so I stopped at like episode 10

tbh I don't think a character being a gary/mary sue is inherently bad. It's bad 99% of the time, but once in a never you can't find a character which while being a somewhat of a mary/gary sue still succeeds as... something something. The only such example I can think of is Tintin from the movie Adventures of tintin/mystery of the unicorn, who, while being somewhat of a gary sue, still succeeds as a good character.

Depends on which one you're talking about. Movie Marinette iis obviously not as she's shown to be clumsy, shy awkward and has actual flaws, while Show Marinette is 100% a Mary Sue.

In the earlier seasons she is quite the yandere sue in my opinion

Marinette is terrible.

Zoe is a mary sue.

I love your videos

She is and the most agreegious kind ever.... Its the imaginary child of a relationship Thomas Austtruc had He made tom as his self insert and Sabine was his ex girlfriend.... Marinette is his Daughter he never had And is really creepy he made her a stalker mary sue

I agree with the comments here I don't see her as a Mary-Sue She's just badly written And this is coming from someone who's watched every season

yeah marinette and zoe are mary-sues, they don't have any character development.

wanna know something funny? i saw the like bar go up from 248 to 249 i saw it lol

Geez, Gabe seems more like a main character than Marinette. Dude has to train for his powers a lot of the time, and he still gets his ass handed to him. 😂

I had an idea I actually liked, so for some reason they didn't allow Adrien to face his villain father.. In the finale of this season or next, when the fight Lila, it should be only Adrien fighting her. Since she despises Mari it's obviously she would try and get rid of her. And they let her do it, just put Mari in a position where she can't fight and let Chat face Lila alone. And Lila being Lila she would spill the truth about hawkmoth/Gabe. That has so much potential!!

She needs to get some jail time

Can you do a video of why Betterfly/Reverse Gabe and why he's actually a great character. I feel like he's really misrepresented by the fandom who are so quick to label him as a terrible father.