WHAT?!

Fire breathing dragon 🔥 🐉

Sbr in 300blkout with a can is much better then a subgun that’s why pretty much everyone doesn’t use mp5s anymore

0:47 RIP my ears reading this comment a tad too late.

Y'all talking about that high pitch tone you left running through the whole video?

Hang ear pro on your HD carbine.

That’s why suppressors should be considered health and safety devices.

@Electrikskullz mufflers are required on cars...but magically EVIL on a gun, because ignorant tyrants

Who needs flashbangs when you have a 10" 308? :)

Suppressor. Done.

Unironically the right answer. I rock a 16" with a 5" can to give me 20" effective length.

Yes, been a while since I have regularly shot at indoor ranges. But a short AR is very unpleasant to be close to. One time I was next to a .50AE Desert Eagle with the brake and that was almost as bad though.

I learned my lesson. Bought a 10.5 and was like.. Im in the middle of no where lets pull over with no hearing protection and see how this thing shoots.. OH MY did it hurt. There is no way you are shooting it with no hearing protection. I can only imagine what it would be like in doors

😂 Soul shaking! In context 300BO subs indoors are very quiet.

I have a loudener on my 10.5 so it is still loud but the blast is forward

my mk18 wasnt loud enough so i put a lantac dragon muzzle break on mine. now everyone loves me at the range. shot my vz 58 10.5 carbine in a covered space at the range. was so excited to fire it forgot ear protection....will never forget that!

Explosive Reactive body armor. I like it!

It works on tanks, surely it should work on people.

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Time to rig a crow system thermal unit on my head with an external batt pack. I am the predator.

I have a 10 inch AR. It is ridiculously loud without a can. I've tried different muzzle brakes ,it's just bad and obnoxious.

Heck, even a 16-inch AR with certain muzzle brakes is obnoxious indoors. Stood in the bay next to a colleague once who had a Lantac Dragon on his AR. Even with foam inner and elecronic outer ears the combination of flash and concussion was distracting.

we cracked up really hard behind the scenes when we saw that too and had to include it in the video

It's a beautiful touch! I'm glad I read this comment bc I definitely missed it the first time around.

What is the HEB? A line of stores?

​@onpsxmember it's THE dominant grocery store chain of south Texas. They won the franchise wars about 20 years ago when they started driving out the last existing Albertsons. Pretty much from around Waco on south. North of that you see no heb's and it's all Krogers. Fun fact, the owner is named H.E.Butt, no lie. Say that with a southerner white trash accent🤭

@@BarnDoor-won5ve Thanks! Now I know about the Butt.

With three to four companions also firing not including opposition

Correct

at least it looks cool

Cuck

What yee yee ass suppressor did you buy

I'll fire my 7.5" Inside with proper ear pro... Even if you miss you gave the bad guy a TBI... 😂

I don't understand. You know he is not Japanese?!

A "golden shower," if you will.

We have defense ammo options for 9mm but hardly any for 556 unless you wanted non expanding hollows is one advantage

⁠@@jason200912 M193 out of a 20” barrel is certainly *a* defense load.

@@spehhhsssmarineer8961 you're relying on hydrostatic effect which isn't the most dependable wounder

@@spehhhsssmarineer8961 20 in barrel indoors lol lmao even

@@jason200912 Does Barnes not sell the TSX anymore?

My 12.5 has a brake suppressor mount. Without the can (function testing) it rocks my soul, with the suppressor I'm sure its still 'loud' but it has no appreciable concussion.

Now do a suppressor on 9mm pcc.

Pretty much the first time I hear it. Perhaps because videos almost always are outdoors and heavily audio compressed.

@@MumrikDK Exactly. I don't think most people know what to listen for and don't know what compression is and why it's used. I really noticed it in Paul Harrell's videos from the last couple years. He takes a shot, but instead of the boom-crack you'd expect to hear, the shot gets cut off and muffled quickly. I'm assuming that it's his camera and/or mic setup attenuating the rapid rise in sound. Which is fine, most gun videos are spent speaking, so tailoring the audio to give good clear speaking clarity is the right move. Then youtube compresses audio even more. But you're 100% right. Audio compression completely removes the aural sense of what a gunshot, suppressed or otherwise, actually sounds like.

@@MumrikDK which puts more respect on Heat's downtown shootout scene where they kept the sounds very raw. Instead of the BS they do now with adding it later using a very muted stock sound.

I can feel that indoor range metallic TANG in my fillings. It absolutely SUCKS. I'd like to see a comparison of first-time shooters going to an indoor range versus an outdoor range. Guarantee you the outdoors crowd enjoy it more.

That's my biggest gripe with US firearm laws. Suppressors shouldn't be as tedious to buy.

Is Henry a Goa'uld or a Jaffa? You know he has a Ma'Tok hidden somewhere.

Indeed

Waiting forever for them to do staff weapons

Nerd

But the ringing in your ears will remind you of your victory for years to come.

@@cathittingfatvapereal1954hell yea

Why 300blk subs have become so popular, rifle caliber that’s still pretty damn quiet indoors

@@josephshields2959it‘s still going to be ear-deafeningly loud but less so. The performance of sub-sonic .300 BLK is also not very impressive. Still more effective than a pistol probably, though.

Failure to quickly neutralize the enemy is also unpleasant, though. The more rounds you expend per person, the more often you need to reload. And honestly, once you have a few people putting rounds out and you have some coming in, max volume has been reached regardless of caliber.

I think that was actually a Chicago gun safe.

rip dollar tree

Hey hey heyyy put some respect on HEBs carts bro 🤠

Funny cause that’s one time the HB would come out on top lol

Ian also had some bias in that video. The mp5sd is still less loud, faster, and more accurate in transitions. Look at the TREx vidéo for a real comparison

Q shilling is out of hand these days.

@@robertfourie9159 ...or maybe it's just a nice shooting gun that people like...

It’s good to see both perspectives, and understand the difference between what capabilities the weapon has versus what your requirements are. For instance, if I were a patrol cop that had to choose my AR or my shotgun as the only long gun in the car for emergencies, I’d go AR for the rare longer distance shots that might happen. Now for home defense I don’t even have a 10 yard shot, and that’s well within effective shotgun range. The AR has its pluses there too, but the long range capability no longer matters here.

Most of us can't carry a mk.18 to work nor would we want to. Handguns are a compromise so you can carry without revealing you are armed. In a home defense situation, all of those variables pushing concealability go out the window.

They think the name blackout sounds cool and thats where their logic starts from justifying their purchase

Its all compromise at the end of the day. We accept handguns for every day carry because of size and weight. Pistol calibers, when it comes to ending threats, are much less effective. (Taking mental stops and proper shot placement out of the equation). I understand people who want the most effective round for their home defense weapon. If i lived in an average sized house, id probably use 300 blk or a 5.56 AR. I live in an apartment so i had to make compromises. I have my surpressed MP5 with subs. The benefits of protecting my hearing and having ammunition that shouldnt penetrat walls to far is my best bet. Im considering getting a pistol and mointing my surpressor on it and using that as well. Either way, it all depends on what you are willing to sacrifice. My FIL wants loud and hard hitting. Hes older so wont have to live with the consequences of hearing damage as long as i will. So i prioritize protecting myself and my hearing.

@@crusherbanshee believe it or not, your subsonic 9mm will punch through more walls than a 10.3" 5.56 barrel using 77gr MK262 will. Lots of things to consider, like you said.

I accept the ballistics of a handgun _because I cant pocket carry a rifle_ I have a rifle caliber for HD because I dont have the size limitation of an EDC. No one _wants_ to use a handgun, we _compromise_ with a handgun.

35k psi, like a 9mm. All the power you need.

A suppressed SBR costs $400 and takes months to get. Oh, and you'll need a rifle too. 😂

It causes PDWs (which make the most sense for many / most cases) to be the _least_ popular, and often dismissed out of hand even by people who can legally obtain and afford them. It even causes them to be overlooked by the police and military (who are technically exempt from it).

@@Justice-ian Exactly. I legit would carry a P90 or an SMG-45 as a backpack PDW every day if the NFA didn’t exist. It’d be more compact than a rifle but easier to shoot at distance than a pistol. With the NFA, you get the worst of both worlds. The size of a rifle but the power of a pistol.

@@gameragodzilla Right, and even in "sporting" terms, my Form 1 BLK AR (

Exactly, sub guns were made for full auto fire because pistol calibers suck. If we could have a full auto 9mm/45/10mm sbr with a suppressor without all the bs regulation Im sure we would all use that for home defense. But that isn't reasonable for people to have. An ar pistol in 556 with a 11.5 barrel is cheap and reliable.

I’d still rather have my MCX Rattler or CMMG Dissent over my 9mm braced pistol pdw. .300blk is that gasolina

Incredibly true, the most slept on quality of a bullpup is it's weight balance. I felt like I could hold my old bullpup at a sector or field of fire all day, one handed. If that were a full length conventional, or worse a short barreled with a suppressor, the lactic acid would be building up quick. Feels very much a product of mostly Americans not using bullpups in anything but a range / 3 gun context and never experiencing their in field benefits.

The only worth bullpup is the AUG and even then it costs more than an AR before you start accessorizing. Even then it’s still quirky as hell.

Bullpups are for trans people like the British and Israelis. Lol 😆 🤣 😂

@@Czechmate88 X95 says hello. The AUG however is just as viable if you train with it. We are just so use to ARs here that it is hard to change. I also say the price premium is worth for having a reliable, militaristic bullpup that provides superior balance, ballistics, sound signature, compactness, and cool as hell aesthetics. Might I add that you can also get trigger replacements done that make the triggers a non issue for the bullpups.

@@Devin7Eleven It’s my understanding that the X95 has issues and is costly as hell to maintain and that the IDF is phasing them out. I also believe there was some issues when people suppress them but I cannot recall exactly what. At the end of the day it’s a bullpup and will have bullpup issues. With us being located in America as well it’s just not as common so parts or upgrades would be hard to find. The trigger is crap also That last sentence alone is why I refuse to buy an AUG. Steyr takes a decade to do anything and when it comes out it’s super expensive (1:7 twist JUST releasing. 300blk JUST releasing. 14.5 barrels JUST releasing. Rails and handguards JUST releasing). I actually purchased a PSA one that had a 20” 5.56 and a .300blk barrel combo, plus their optic, for what I thought was a deal. Only to learn that it was Steyr’s own STUPID waffle mag stock and the included optic was a 1.5x. So for the (admittedly, “great” deal at $2k) I get stuck with an optic I have to replace (was under the impression it was the Austrian SF 3x optic) and get stuck having to buy Steyr’s own magazines at 3x the cost of a PMAG. I don’t hate the AUG, but I hate Steyr for being a crappy European company that engages in crappy European company practices. No different than HK in that regard

It's not though, and they all run cans now

Keep in mind SWAT has to consider barrier penetration as well.

@@MrCashewkitty 99% of North American deadly encounters are within 50 yards or under.

@@jaypee389 for sure. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that a pistol caliber is as effective as a rifle. Theres a reason that the mp5 was replaced. Also, contrary to popular opinion, the 9mm over penetrates more than 5.56. Now ammo choices will effect that to varying degrees. Primary and Secondary has had several ballistics round tables with multiple SMEs.

maybe we need a part2?

@@9HoleReviews Yes. I can tell you what SF and the Frogman found out about the MP5. Its a great gun but if you have to fight your way out after a raid it fails to deliver enough at 100-200m. Mk18 s arent the answer 5.56 from a 10inch bbl is no bueno either. 300blk is the answer for now and thats why the Army adapted the Sig Rattler in 300blk and its a awful gun to shoot. So 2nd test bring a Rattler and a 300blk AUG and a Colt 5.56 with a current 11.5 inch bbl. Even HK is building short 300blks now so thats the trend.

​@@9HoleReviewsyes you do, and add in a 300 blackout shooting subs without a suppressor (that will actually cycle) for an apples to apples comparison with the Mp5 unsuppressed.

@@jim99west46" it fails to deliver enough at 100-200m. " The Swedish UN forces in Congo had that exact problem, hence the new cartridge 9 mm patron m/45B with a tombak coated steel jacket. It wrecked havoc on the handguns in service, but it got the job done.

Suppressed rifle caliber.

​@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballzwas still much louder than the unsuppressed MP5.

@@paulelledge8977 no its not. There is no world where a bare muzzled 9mm sub gun is quieter than a suppressed carbine.

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz we literally just watched them shoot them back to back and say so at the 6:00 mark.

@@paulelledge8977 cool, I have these things too, and my suppressed 5.56 carbines are much quieter than my 9mms. If I shoot my 9mms without ears im in pain, I can shoot a 12.5 5.56 with a can and only be mildly annoyed.

As long as they aren't saying "heighth"

Josh has no G in him.

Without Ears?

WHAT?

@@majestic._ Not so loud without Eye Protection.

Fake

Ok, Rambo 😂 🤡

People want simple, infallible answers in a complicated world where nothing can ever be 100%. The more strongly these are worded, the more people believe in them, because it feels like you have the obvious answer and don't need to actually research what other opinions are or think for yourself about something so big it's difficult to understand completely.

I think people are forgetting the unasked question that was answering which is when lethality is the goal... Rifle cabinet is always better. These guys seem to be answering the question of when pleasantness of firing is the goal or absolute shortness of weapon is the goal...

@@omegalazarus I think you're oversimplifying, it's not just about one choice or the other, it will always depend on context. If you want a gun for checking what went bump in the night with no ear pro, inside a building, is the extra lethality of a rifle really justified? Is it worth the practically guaranteed permanent hearing damage? Is it short enough to be actually no different in use? Is there a real chance that bump was someone wearing body armour? What sort of problem will 30 rounds of 9mm not be capable of solving? If you're one of the boys in black pyjamas doing ninja stuff and shooting for work it's a totally different circumstance.

@@omegalazarus No one's forgetting lethality, they're pointing out that there are other factors to consider. If what you want is lethality, there's plenty of elephant guns to choose from. You won't choose one, because you need to compromise power for handling, recoil, capacity, and probably a dozen other factors. Because every choice is a compromise.

@@jameshealy4594"Is it short enough to actually be no different in use". One thing I'm going to point out, while I'm really on the side of "pistol calibers in rifles don't make much sense"... *Really* short barrel ARs in 556 (and some other less common intermediate cartridges) also don't make much sense. 556 gets almost all of its power/energy/terminal ballistics (whichever term you want to use) from velocity. Even "heavy" 76 gr 556 loads still have a super lightweight bullet. If that bullet isn't moving at ~2500+ FPS, it isn't much better then a pistol bullet. With a super short barrel, like maybe 7 inches or less (which, isn't all that common)... A 556 frankly isn't any better then a 9mm in terms of terminal ballistics. 556 is just burning the majority of the powder outside of the barrel at that point. This is why pistol cartridges tend to have heavier bullets but substantially lower velocities then almost all rifle cartridges. On the flip side, this is why most rifle cartridges need longer barrels: to be able to achieve those higher velocities. There are exceptions to this rule. 300blk can load much heavier bullets, even in supersonic loads. 300blk is often optimized for shorter barrels, and even the subsonic loads will hit harder then any 9mm round, even supersonic 9mm. If cost wasn't a factor (but, of course, cost IS a factor), and if the NFA wasn't a thing (of course, the NFA IS a thing)... I see no reason to use a 9mm subgun over a 300blk subgun. The 300blk gun will be able to do everything the 9mm can do, but better.

when you pay so much for them, you may as well try to get all that you can out of them.

@@9HoleReviews All my friends made fun of me for wearing $40 Walker's so I spent $600 on Peltors. 😪 /s

@@BassJunkie200 Wait, should I not be using Walkers for ear pro?

@@kmack764they are perfectly fine.

@@9HoleReviews good when the wife snores as well :)

So does a Glock 19!

Higher pressure is really the deal. The amount of unburnt powder combusting outside the barrel really only makes for more flash, but correlates usually quite well with the sound signature, since both are a product of having your muzzle closer to the chamber.

Its a tradeoff.

@@jussimakarussi This is also part of why 7.62x35 is quieter; it has less pressure; and the wider bore dissipates that pressure quicker than the thinner bore 5.56. Handgun cartridges are usually much bigger bore than rifle, so they also lose pressure faster and thus will be quieter.

@WaterZer0 You've got the right idea, but imo some flawed conclusions. Slower dissipation of pressure means lower pressure at the ears, meaning less noise. Think of popping a balloon vs letting the air seep out. Both situations have the same starting pressure and equal amounts of air, only difference is how fast it is released. What makes handguns and 300blk quieter compared to 5.56 is just the pressure difference. Why does 5.56 have such high pressures, you might ask? The force enacted upon an object by an expanding gas is defined by pressure×surface area, so with such a small diameter you need lots of pressure to get some omph out of that little pea. There are lots of other factors at play too and I'm not gonna write a whole book here about the physics behind combustion. Feel free comment/disagree, I like having civil conversations and every once in a while I learn something new myself.

556 would have energy win even at 10 inch barrels. The advantage of 9mm is ability to run expensive defense ammo. If you don't run defensive ammo in your pcc then there's not much advantages other than noise

The best for what?

Terminal ballistics obviously ​@@EdwardSnortin

14.5 is absolutely enough for 5.56. I take a 14 inch bren pencil to 800m regularly, let alone an m4/urgi. 14.5 is by far the best compromise, and there isn't much that a longer barrel gives you that wouldn't just be better with a 6.5.

​@@jason200912I wonder if a sub-gun would be as effective a man stopper as a 556 ar if using those new high velocity 50 grain 9mm ammo that might reach 2500 fps out of a 7-8 inch sub-gun? It'd definitely have the velocity to generate hydrostatic shock and would dump energy better than 556 foresure

in paradise i'm sure there will be matrix styled armories where you an stroll along with BTO shopping carts

@@9HoleReviews and may we never have to reload while shooting.

Totally agree. Something like a CZ Scorpion Evo with a can and folding brace or stock that you load with something like a 147gr HST does fit into a top notch and functional QCB system, like in a home as you don't need something that was made for targets 50 yards plus away. And you are avoiding over penetration. I don't want to be that burglar who stands at the other end of that in a home while the one firing it maintains total orientation after every shot due to having minimal flash and concussion.

@@Jarrow13 I was thinking same. 145-160grains bullets. SubSonic and lots of Hurt 😀 and same as Johnwurfel - I can train much more with 9mm. a gun I can train with, is a gun Im going to be better with. 🙂 There are some good silencers that goes 3-4" back on the barel and only built 2-3" forward.

I did... it was a mistake lol... had to turn the volume down

Only major problem there is that the concussion/blast is still moved toward your face. While you have less unburnt powder...that's still a lot of bang.

@@oskar6661 probably some truth to that but I don’t know Id call it a major problem. Grain of salt that I am a biased bullpup fan-boy, but I don’t notice any reduction in concussion switching from a 16” bullpup to a 16” AR. But I’m sure if you’re running a brake or something rough, every last inch counts lol

If one is okay settling for a bullpup then this all goes out the window, just run the bullpup. Subguns length and rifle length ballistics.

@@ParrotTactical Bullpups are the future. No longer do we have to stress about choosing what barrel length to go with or dealing with dumb SBR laws.

I was hoping they would try some different muzzle devices so we could see/hear the difference. Maybe they can do a separate video on muzzle devices indoors.

Is a muzzle device test something yall would be interested in seeing?

@@9HoleReviews I definitely would be.

​@@9HoleReviewsin cqc like a house if it would even help in such a small space

Why don't you just buy a suppressor?

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz A few reasons, including extra bs from my location. But it all boils down to cost, registration, and the extra unconstitutional restrictions that come with an NFA item.

@@secondamendment1927 what extra restrictions?

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz He's poor or lives in a ban state. I think he's just poor due to the shitty excuses he's making is typically used by poors trying to cope lol.

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Travel and storage, that I know of. Begging for permission via a drivers license & car registration already pisses me off, begging to take my own property with me when I go as well is just a step too far. And it's required that you ask, not tell ask, the ATF before you take an NFA item anywhere. And the cops of every juristiction you travel through. And making a new room in the house, that noone else can access, even my wife, just to meet the standard of "nobody not on the stamp can access it without you", unless I go through the extra expense and trouble to put everyone who may ever visit while I'm away on a trust is ridiculous too. Again, that I know of. I'm not an NFA guy, and this is the gvt we're talking about. It's probably even stricter than I know on those 2, and probably many more things besides. Not knowing until you shell out the cash or get raided alone is a good enough reason to not mess with it.

300blk for the win.

.300blk is absolutely the superior choice, anyone saying otherwise is just big dumb.

Same

Subs just usually suck from semi auto .300blk’s. I run mine through a bolt gun. Suppressed supers with say 110gr Vmax rounds is what ya should be focusing on.

Factory subsonic ammo can be a problem for some barrels, because it is made to work in 16” barrels. 300 BO heaven is found with hand loading. I’ve only fired one 20 round box of factory ammo in mine when I first got it.

def not the TLDR for this video.

Suppress everything, got it.

Abolish the NFA!!

Buckshot is objectively the best even when compared to rifle rounds at close range. That automatically makes it the best right?

​@@hardwire1013Honestly that's always my thought when people start talking effectiveness at close range. There is no argument that the shotgun is an absolute beast up close.

@@hardwire1013 There are some counter-arguments specific to the type of shotgun: A lot of them are quite long and not very handy, and the automatic ones are pricey so anybody relying on a pump really needs to not whiff the first shot. Some people are paranoid about armoured threats too, but I expect somebody who survives getting hit with an ounce of lead to be disoriented enough to make the follow up shot lethal if the belligerent does not modify his behaviour.

@@agentoranj5858 I don’t employ a shotgun in my home defense system. The makes it best part was half sarcasm half serious. I don’t train on shotguns. Also to the people worried about “body armor” remember you’re using a 5.56 or 300 black. If someone is actually there to hurt you. With how cheap body armor that stops those rounds are. Makes it a moot point. Statistically an aggressor knows the victim prior to the crime. If we are talking about SHTF then yeah my recommendation for a shotgun for the most part goes away still is viable for niche reasons in that case.

@@hardwire1013 For close range low round count engagements against unarmored targets? Sure. Seeing as magazine capacity is similar between PDWs, SMGs, and SBRs that doesn't really enter the conversation, but it would in comparison to shotguns. I dislike shotguns because capacity is low and reloads on most (but not all) are comparatively slow even if you are skilled.

Wrong

@@DinoNucci ever been on the two way range? Sorry, I think you already revealed your experience. Thanks for adding so much to the conversation.

@@bmrz38 WronG

Auditory exclusion might keep you from being distracted, but it will not protect your hearing. You will still suffer hearing loss.

@@jacobstaten2366 while I agree with your statement, where is hearing damage on the list of concerns when your in the middle of a gunfight? Not sure about you, but it’s not in my top 5. It’s right above “did I remember to take the garbage can to the curb”?

If cost wasn't a factor (but, of course, cost IS a factor), if availability wasn't a factor (of course, availability IS a factor) and if the NFA wasn't a thing (of course, the NFA IS a thing)... I see no reason to use a 9mm subgun over a 300blk subgun. The 300blk gun will be able to do everything the 9mm can do, but better. The only real advantage of 9mm is the physical size of the cartridge, allowing it to fit in smaller guns... AKA pistols. Allowing for concealable carry guns, which would just be totally impractical for 300blk.

Or a several thousand dollar optic that has two different zeros to flip between.

@@umbrellasecurityforces1074 Which proves my point even more

You should tell all the tier 1 operators overseas that their round is overrated and that they should switch to something else. Since you seem to know more than all of US SOCOM combined.

@@crispy_338 they are already learning this. Hence, why they requested the sig 9t to remedy the problem.

@@crispy_338 no need they already know! Hence why they requested the 9t

Every problem but legal ones, depending on the jurisdiction or country. Not to mention cost problems.

@user-tv4lz5ie5u Why legal problems? And I would argue I'm not worried about spending more on ammo if it's to save my life. I would be pissed if I died for not bringing enough gun to the fight over cost.

@@BlackRifleBearyea dudes retort made zero sense

@@BlackRifleBear You surely are going to spend way more with 300, unless you stop all training altogether, of course.

@user-tv4lz5ie5u I absolutely do spend more for 300blk, and I'm willing to pay that. But not every shot needs to be with a 300blk. You can accomplish most training with 22lr guns, except recoil mitigation.

There's the unreliable science of 556 hydrostatic shock nerve damage.... worth mentioning even if it doesn't really happen reliably on large targets.

Is .460 safe to run in a direct blowback firearm designed for .45?

No way you need to re-research 7N6. It's not as good as 5.56 past 200 yards but under 200 yards that stuff is evil and make some of the nastiest wound channels out there. They designed it to tumble early 50 yards is far enough to get the desired effect

@@off6848 the tumbling is a result of 1:12 extra extra slow barrel twisting fyi

@@jason200912 Re-read.

10 is OK, but why take the good at nothing .40 and heavier and lower capacity .45? Reasons to stick to 9mm? I have a shit ton of components to load 9 and getting more for another caliber sucks. And stocking one caliber of loaded ammo is cheaper and easier than stocking multiple. One problem with the 10mm is unless you load your own or find more boutique loads, you're going to be shooting stuff loaded to .40 S&W. .40 just isn't "more enough" to give it any kind of advantage over 9mm or .45, and .45's only advantage over 9mm is it's all subsonic.

I mean, you partially just answered your own question. Having the same ammo as the gun on your hip. Ammo interchangeability is a big deal to a lot of people, even more so people on a budget. It goes back to the Old West days even, when many repeating lever-actions were chambered in the common revolver rounds, so that an average rancher or cowboy could simply buy a box of .32 or whatever he was shooting and run both his guns. 9mm is 'cheap' (modern defintion considering the stupidity of ammo still...). There's something to be said for simply ordering 1,000 rounds and running your handguns and a defensive 'carbine' off the same ammo. In a home defense situation, any caliber is likely going to get the job done - as it's not particularly likely your assailants are going to be breaching your house with heavy gear (until...). Ideally with any PCC/SMG configuration, you're putting significant numbers of rounds on the baddies, so the difference in calibes becomes increasingly moot.

@@immikeurnot You do you, & I certainly wouldn't tell ya not to, but it's this man's opinion that we are becoming far to dependent upon 9. It's been a NATO caliber now for some time, & it now dominates law enforcement more than ever. This means they could decide to grab all of it, & be more justified in doing so to the pathetic elements of the public outside of other calibers. If I have 3 points touching me, I'm going bigger & or badder than 9.

@@oskar6661 Respect the point, but I feel we're dealing with unique domestic threats that those of the "wild West" didn't. The heavy dependancy of 9 is starting to become an issue in my opinion. We should be putting efforts in insuring there is another viable caliber out there for the general citizenry.

No, an SMG can be a PDW. But not every PDW is an SMG.

@@BlackRifleBear is it like the crocodiles and alligators thing? If so, whoa.

An SMG implies it is fully automatic and pistol caliber (Sub Machine Gun). A PDW is just a (Personal Defense Weapon) There is a good bit of overlap and personal opinion, but typically any concealable, pistol or intermediate cartridge rifle with a stock is considered a PDW.

We have a video to answer your question: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a8t1p5eKxLm4f6s.html

The short answer to this is PDWs where specific designed as weapons for Support Troops to defend them self. Send a lot of leed that can pierce armour in the direction of the enemy.

Its only relevant for people with no hearing protection

As per usual, you are comparing ball ammunition with ball ammunition. There is a reason why Hollow Points, which are dedicated for unarmoured threat, are a thing. Avoid over penetration, shred meat, bones and organes to a degree a 5.56 on small barrel won't do.

And law enforcement has effectively abandoned shotguns for anything but breaching doors and less lethal rounds. What did we abandon them for? Rifles, because rifles are far easier to train on, more accurate, and plenty lethal for the job. The new change, with suppressors being so prolific, is ditching 16" AR for 10.5/11.5 suppressed to save the disability claims from touching one off without ear pro. I imagine suppressed bullpups will rear their heads before too long. I could also see the Flux Raider be a nice go between of a duty handgun and a rifle if someone could make a secure way to carry one and not make it look ridiculously aggressive (modern politics suck).

The things Henry does for youtube...gotta fit in the frame, baby