holy shit, ive played this game thousands of times and know every god damn word of dialogue but this shit just blew my god damn mind!!!

Inception ain't got shit on this mindfuck....

He still needed to go to see Janos, I don't know if you know but only the Blood Reaver can absorbe Raziel. Or was that what you were trying to say?

Jake Lancaster Belmont A comment from five days ago?! This may be the most recent comment I've ever seen on a Legacy of Kain video. Usually they're from upwards of five years ago, not five *days!*

Not only that, by changing the future twice, he ends up resurrecting Janos in Defiance, which wasn't supposed to happen and that's why he shows up in BO2, used by the Hylden Lord to power the so called "Device". And although BO2 is a bit of a fuck up, I'm guessing the timestream is so changed by then that even Vorador survives, which also explains why Moebius is still alive and shows up at the end of Defiance at the Spirit Forge. Guess the execution simply didn't happen as it should've done in the original timestream.

Well considering most souls linger around their bodies unless eaten by slaugh or those reaver things in Defiance...its very possible the Soul Reaver JUST ate William's soul.

Just dripping with sarcasm, lingering hatred and regret. It's one of my favorite lines and deliveries across a great deal of media. Only two words, but to understand it requires so much knowledge of his character and his history. Amy Hennig fucking rules.

I'm still a big fan of "Alas poor Nupraptor, I knew him well. Well, not really."

​​@@Brucifer2Reminder, Kain killed William with the Soul Reaver centuries ago, I don't think there was a soul left here.

​@@Jarock316 but in this cutscene, Kain chronologically killed him 2 decades prior

I got my copy from a pawnshop when I was 12 lol

And 14 years later... Still is

They started with a generic tale of Revenge, and it exploded into a world where our protagonists are forced to break reality over their knee just to barely break even with their long-con, scheming, helplessly trapped under a rock Antagonist.

This game came out in 2001. It's 19 years old.

When is the sequel to defiance

@@jjbarea5810 never

You're right. Raziel's arch is extremely satisfying precisely because Raziel paradoxically becomes more humane as he becomes less and less human. Kain, on the other hand...

@@UncleJunkyard Kain is always a murderous jerkass who sees humans as cattle, but he does become wiser over the course of the games as well imo. Compare his brash and impulsive younger self in the Blood Omen games to the thoughtful planner with a philosopher's spirit that we see in the Soul Reaver games, particularly the later ones.

@@tarvoc746 Kain is also slowly turning toward his stolen destiny, that of the Scion of Balance.

Rdr2 came close

There was Koudelka and FF12. And once in a while FF14 harkens back to FF12's writing. But I can't think of anything else.

Well, that's because it already happened countless times, this is where the paradox actually happened.

@@EyeOfTheMind86 Kain’s probably seen this happen in the time chamber soo many times. And lived it up to this point in countless timelines…

This is the moment, that one time when the coin landed on it's edge.

Omg that shit funny 🤣🤣

Crystal Dynamics did not understand that this did not need to be an ending...it could have been a prelude.

...Or they could have given us a proper final ending instead of a cliffhanger at Defiance.

@@DogOfHades You might say the series has a history of cliffhangers.

@@chromasus9983 Come to think about it, yeah. Every single game ended with a major cliffhanger.

gronndar Instead we got Nosgoth. This truly is the dark timeline

HumanSnake Welcome to the beautiful writing of the Legacy of Kain series.

"poor William..."

History abhors a paradox

The sheer compassion Kain has for Raziel in this scene is just...god their relationship is so insanely complex and multifaceted, and its such a joy to see good writing in action.

@@trial_with_an_error9687 It is! And shows Kain's true intent was for Raziel to help them BOTH defy what fate had in mind for them, to allow Raziel to not enter the Reaver, while he is seeking to find his way back to become the Scion of Balance, and with what knowledge Kain has from Mobius' time streaming devices, he knows the very real possibilities of what "should" happen. He knew he was meant to die there, but even scared, he actually showed faith in Raziel, even as if Raziel didn't see what Kain was trying to show him, to lead him to make his own decisions truly, rather than let others be the ones to make it for him. Even as it seemed like Kain was trying to guide Raziel to do what _HE_ wanted, he was truly trying to show Raziel he had the power to defy fate itself, yet we see how others tried to use Raziel to do the same, particularly Mobius and his master, the Elder God, due to their fearing Kain because he is the Scion of Balance, the one being who could destroy the Elder God and truly restore balance to Nosgoth.

This is the very Wheel of Fate which is controlled by eldritch being itself. We cannot comprehend indeed.

Oh yeah. Kain knew the risk of Raziel likely killing him there, which would just lead things to the path they were "meant" to be on, but he wanted Raziel to see he could do so much more... and that he could change their destinies.

Thus allowing Defiance AND Blood Omen 2 to take place..

When I was younger I wondered what Kain meant when he said he saw the end of how this chase ends and that it was “crude and ill conceived” in this moment the end comes. Kain is slain by the blade and Raziel travels just far enough to kill his human self and then dies to the Reaver himself. A meaningless and futile death for both

@@Broomer52 Yup, and tying well to how Kain showed Raziel the reality of it all, something Raziel didn't see because he was wrapped up in his anger at Kain, as well as his failing to see it until it was almost too late.

This is actually the most important moment in the whole series

In this scene there was only two instances of the Soul Reaver, the Reaver that is in William Grave didn't contain Raziel Soul,it was merely a vampiric weapon, it was at that time when Raziel kills Kain and the Reaver absorb Raziel in order to be one with his wraith counterpart, after this the vampiric blade has the ability to consume souls because Raziel is bound by it, and that blade is what we see in Blood Omen 1 and Soul Reaver 1

@@Rafesco Wrong. Reminder when Raziel first encounters the Blood Reaver, he makes note he does not feel the same sense of displacement he felt when he first encountered the broken Reaver in Williams tomb. The broken reaver in the tomb IS the Soul Reaver.

@@Jarock316 @Jarock316 the reaver that was stole by the sarafan was indeed the Bloodreaver yet at the moment when Raziel kill his human self, there was a temporal displacement not because the reavers but because Raziel mortal blood and Raziel wraith form make contact, that was the catalyst. In this scene I believe that the temporal displacement was created entirely by both the spectral and material reaver and that it was in a mere moments that Raziel and Kain meet their tragic fate.

@@Rafesco no, the temporal distortion in that instance was caused by the soul both being inside and outside of the blood reaver at the same time, Raziel explains it very clearly. You could argue that it should've happen again at the end of Defiance but it's a thing that probably got forgotten as they rushed to finish the game

​@@famicom89Only the reaver in the tomb contains Raziel's soul. But that other Raziel is ravenous and corrupted from being trapped in the blade, which is why the sword freaks out the way it does. Raziel removes the corruption in defience so the blade can restore Kain.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I urge you to hear me now, for what you are about to hear is the truth, in all its uncompromising details. At the crucial moment, in which the prosecution alleges the victim was struck down, my client had a choice. To give into his homicidal urges and allow himself to be a pawn of fate, or! To resist it, to assert his will, which he proved he yet possessed, and to stand athwart the terrible destiny that was planned for him. It is my aim to prove to you today, that when presented with this choice, this monumental dilemma upon which his entire future hinged, my client chose to remain unshackled by the cruel hand of fate, and thus defied the machinations of forces greater than he could possibly imagine. Thus, these same forces conspired to rewrite history to suggest my client's guilt, as the depths of their manipulations have proven to be boundless. Knowing these facts, I urge you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! To come to the obvious revelation that my client is a mere pawn in a sinister game, one who would not be moved about the board with impunity, and who figures to suffer dearly for such defiance, unless you render a verdict of Not Guilty. You too, have the power to challenge destiny, as the coin is still turning. The defense rests." Read in Simon Templeman's voice. I think you're on to something here.

@@BestWayKilla Neat. need either Moebious or the EG as the prosecutor now :V

@@BestWayKilla Vastly underrated comment.

Thanks

No fuck william

Perfect first words.

Poor William...

Alas poor Nupraptor i knew him well. Well not really.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that hears Kain tell me "You can, look inside and see that it so!" whenever I feel like I can't do something.

and here lies, worlds oldest internet relic

the real madness is that the cutscenes aren't skippable in this game, so you have to watch ALL of this. If your game crashed before the next savegame... enjoy your cutscene again.

@@JN-hs5xl I don’t mind, I love these scenes so much I recite them often. Fantastic writing and acting.

antlohrz lo-ro the paradox could have allowed raziel to kill moebius back then. and moebieus new it.

Moebius said that because he had two "soul reavers" (his soul on his arm and his soul inside the sword) and thus could change the timestream at that time, same as in this scene, it's the "vertigo" Raziel talks about. Also the same when he is being absorbed by the sword at the end of SR2, there it's actually Kain that changes the timestream. Fact is, although Raziel has free will, Moebius has a pretty good idea of what he will do, not only because he manipulates him, but also because he can anticipate his most probable actions, he talks about that in Defiance when he says to Kain (on the second chat they have, right at the beginning of the game) something like: "Yes, Raziel's destiny is shrouded from us but we can see the ripples of his potential actions and all of them point in the same direction... he WILL kill you Kain, in sparing him from the sword you signed your own death sentence."... just paraphrasing it.

but if none of the have free will and everything is pre destined they should say what they would right i mean they can speak and say what ever they want ? they dont have free will to say what they think

The wonderful thing about Legacy of Kain is that there truly aren't any free will. It is an extremely fatalistic outcome - The only question is how, and when.

Zeithri the exception is Raziel.

Humility is a rare sight in Kain.

Reminder, the Seer in Blood Omen 2 called Kain a destructive pebble.

@@UncleJunkyard Is it really humility when Kain is aware that him and Raziel are instrumental in defying the prime mover?

I agree

First he gets killed by Kain. Then, his carcass gets impaled by Raziel

Jim Huffman Just like Mobious killed by Kain, and devoured in the spiritual realm by Raziel! Kain said even said “So you enjoy death?”

First comment in 8 years... holy shit!

According to the creators, the numbers of the paradoxes are only there because they are the first time we see them, but they are nowhere near the first time they were played. This circle has been orchestrated and played over and over again.

Bro

I played this game 3 or 4 times and the others... Ten years ago probably and now i am watching the scenes of this interesting game and his concept or idea to think about... And i am very sure that i probably will play or watch many videos in the future of my life to watch one of the very profound game , with a high state of mind or thinking, thanks to create this underated gem... I want a remake or remasterization of thisss... Please jeje Greetings dudessss!

Oh that would be epic..... The Doctor (D) "'Ello... Who're you?" Moebius (M)"I am Moebius, th..." D "Fancy name, pal." M "I am the Time-Streamer." D "Time 'Streamer'? What's that, you're streaming time, the whole time? Gotta be boring, right?" M "..." D "And you? Silent fella with your wrinkly skin an' white hair? Like that tho...." Kain (K) "I am Kain." D "Ok. Nice meeting y'all. Any idea why we're where? And .. where 'here' actually is?" M/K *shrug* D "Great... me neither." K "Who might you be?" D "I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time-Lord." M "Time-Lord?" D "Yea. Jealous, 'streamer'?"

It probably would end poorly for Moebius and the Elder God.

This wasn't from Defiance, it's from Soul Reaver 2.

He should. Raziel was a prick when he was a human, yes, but he has been manipulated at every turn, by evreyone, including Kain. And he still has the heart to break all his shackles by sheer force of will. In the end, he makes the choice Kain couldn't and potentially saves Nosgoth.

Wasn’t the change regarding William already made in BO1? Kain causes the paradox in that game, it’s just explained here. Most other events would need to okay out the same as before. Raziel’s path from Soul Reaver 1 onwards couldn’t be altered much, because if it was he wouldn’t be able to get to where he ended up in Defiance. I don’t think that much changed overall.

The changes are that after defiance is that the soul reaver and kain are finally cleansed and purified never before has ocurred that, and with that the wheel of fate can be changed. The ending of defiance is inmediatly after the events of Blood Omen 1, so in theory the true ending of the story is followed after Blood Omen 1

Rther than retelling the first game. I would rather see what happens after blood omen 2 and defiance. So basically what the cancelled dark prophecy game was going to be.

@@gilgamesh310 Yes, BO1 had altered quite a bit already. But note that Kain grew up knowing of William when he was "William the Just". How would Kain's NEW SELF react to William's murder? What about the Guardians who were corrupted by Naprator's madness? And the last bit, Kain first acquired the Soulreaver in BO1 in some ruin/temple. So is the physical Soulreaver that his younger self would acquire, is that in the ruin/temple OR is it in Current Kain's hands? A ton has changed, Kain's own past has drastically changed due to the times he went back an altered the past - First by killing William before he became the Nemesis, then after convincing Raziel not to kill him at William's temple, and then finally where he altered Raziel's fate. If you grew up and was molded by the events caused by a mass murdering lunatic who was originally well-loved by many, then you go back in time & kill that person before they become evil, how much of your own past has changed? You wouldn't grow up knowing of this well-loved person becoming evil, cause it never happened. Thats what I'm talking about.

This game will never die. The blue vampire with scarf on his face is one of my core memories when I was little my dad played soul reaver 2. Years later about month ago I accidentally come across video or something and I played the first 2 soul reavers. All the games I played soul reaver 2 despite technical limitations is the best written story next maybe one title.

Incredible writing, for starters.

And still as great a scene as it was back then :)

Indeed it is.

16 year old game, it came out in 2001.

18

19 years now

So what you're saying is that it was destined to happen.

I agree but somehow they got some good ass music in there. Those strings around 5:00 onward do excellently to build tension but now yoi havw me wondering that the music might be synced totally differently as a result of timing and the gameplay music marching on no matter how slow or fast you play it