Spinning Vs Grinding: What Is The Best Cadence For Climbing?

Рет қаралды 502,742

2 жыл бұрын

There are lots of techniques that cyclists use when climbing. Chris Froome, for example, prefers to spin a smaller gear up climbs, whereas someone like Jan Ullrich is famous for always grinding a big gear. Joined by Andrew “The Twig” Feather, we tried out Wahoo’s new POWRLINK ZERO dual-sided pedals to test which is more effective: spinning or grinding.
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Пікірлер: 661

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Are you more of a spinner or a grinder? _Edit: As we missed it out in the video, Conor's HR was 165bpm for the spinning challenge and 155bpm for grinding!_

@skkkrtt2600 2 жыл бұрын

Grinder

@siklistangsunog2457 2 жыл бұрын

Spinner at flats and semi grinder in climb

@philipcooper8297 2 жыл бұрын

Tinder.

@crooksj11 2 жыл бұрын

Try to spin as much as possible, but I grind when it’s full gas.

@forgottencameras 2 жыл бұрын

Grinding away at that 7-sprocket cassette.

@simongoh9461 2 жыл бұрын

Years ago I was advised on a climb that if my heart rate was high and I was struggling to breathe, switch to a lower cadence. Conversely if your legs were burning, choose a higher cadence. Problem is that nowadays my heart is pounding, my lungs are screaming and my legs are burning all at the same time and they never told me what to do about it.🤔

@KILLTHEREDDITOR 2 жыл бұрын

That’s when you sit down for a few minutes to appreciate the view and take a couple of sips from your bottle 😂

@mataya909 2 жыл бұрын

Just slow down man.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

@@KILLTHEREDDITOR Great response Gabriel!! 👍

@overthetarget9401 2 жыл бұрын

That's when you start to think of putting an e-bike conversion kit on your bike. ;-)

@ryukukazami9029 2 жыл бұрын

it also happens to me if my mind is not calm because too many thoughts are racing in my head so that my breathing becomes a mess too. But after I tried to clear my mind, and tried to be calm and focused while cycling, all those things didn't happen to me anymore.

@thomasscott8438 2 жыл бұрын

Top Gear had their pro,now GCN has theirs…”he’s called the twig!” Brilliant 🤣

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

🤣🙊

@AgentSmith16 2 жыл бұрын

Loved the reference

@joriz5869 2 жыл бұрын

LMAO

@davidpnewton 2 жыл бұрын

Well whats they can say for the GCN's guy is that he sticks at climbs.

@coolhand1966 2 жыл бұрын

The Twig should of remained silent.

@SIMKINETICS 2 жыл бұрын

I've studied & researched bicycling cadence & power for decades as fundamental to my quest to invent & design an automatic bicycle transmission that 'shifts' gears to accommodate the best combination. In the '90', I also started a bike riding club with other engineers; by then I'd already known about optimal cadence & power with some practical range. There's a great deal of research & scientific testing results available on this subject! Anyway, I noticed that one of our club riders was ascending steep hills (in our Santa Cruz Mountain rides) with a cadence around 30-40 rpm, so I warned him that this was so low that he'd blow-out his knees, which he *did* within months, requiring arthroscopic knee surgery on one knee, and again the other after again ignoring my warning! What I concluded in my extensive research was that optimal cadence averages 88 rpm +/- 8 rpm, depending on the rider, and 250 +/-40 watts was sustainable for a typical fit rider. From this basic cadence range, the most effective sprints are achieved by raising cadence, wherein power develops proportional to rpm up to 130 rpm with practice, noting that high-power riding is only sustainable for elite athletes. Some elite sprinters can produce over 1600 Watts, but only for about 5 seconds! For the sake of healthy knees, I'd recommend cadence to always exceed 60 rpm with a training target of 80-95 rpm, which seems high to many riders until they make it a heathy habit. My latest incarnation of an automatic bike transmission is almost ready for development/testing with crowdsource funding; the automatic feature is based on maintaining 250 Watts at 90 rpm for pedaling bikes, and 1kW at 80 rpm for pedelecs, the gear-ratio control is designed to keep cadence nearly constant for all grades up & down steep hills and nearly flat grades, and is tunable for rider preferences above 70 rpm. Since power is pedal-torque multiplied by pedal rpm, maintaining nearly constant cadence optimizes efficient power at all grades, both for the bike-ride *and* muscular kinetics!

@whatreally9 Жыл бұрын

Is it OK to have low cadence while standing and cycling? Less effort from the knee joint and more about shifting your weight around

@michaeldgn9813 Жыл бұрын

Wow this was interesting to read! Thanks for your comment and good luck with your project

@anthonybutt2453 Жыл бұрын

@SIMKINETICS Great post. This should be required knowledge before wracking up the miles, as it would prevent unnecessary knee joint injury & maximise cycling longevity, which unfortunately is not what most people consider when young, ego driven & full of testosterone.

@DigzGuy Жыл бұрын

@@whatreally9 this is a great question. I'm wondering the same thing!

@jonathanhoare9006 11 ай бұрын

Anything below 80rpm for me is leg destroying. I’m happy between 90-110rpm. I’ve always ridden with high cadence. Spinning circles is more efficient than chopping wood!

@sventice 2 жыл бұрын

I'm 60 years old, and so are my tendons and joints. At this point in my riding career, I'm not yet ready for an Ebike, but I have settled on a climbing strategy of low gears combined with a low cadence. 😊

@martinfahrni5677 2 жыл бұрын

This practice also improves balance. Keep riding, stay safe and healthy.

@timothyduvernet2711 Жыл бұрын

Hey, I'm 61 and I have lots of friends who have had new parts installed. Luckily I'm still OEM.

@percyfaith11 Жыл бұрын

Great technique. I do the same thing.

@kubackjeee Жыл бұрын

High cadence all day

@BTinKH Жыл бұрын

Wait till you're 77 and been broken and bleeding by the side of the road, praying for morphine.

@AgentSmith16 2 жыл бұрын

Suggestions next time for the twig’s intro: Some say he has invisible bar tape… Some say all his drivetrains are 1X, because he never uses the little ring. Some say that if he took EPO, it would slow him down because of the extra weight. All we know is, he’s called the twig!!!

@PaintMixa 2 жыл бұрын

that last one haha

@TheJanvicgwaps 2 жыл бұрын

lol at the 1x bit

@albertpolak786 2 жыл бұрын

Some say he doesn't even know how his helmet comes off as he never thought to try; and that his hatred of the French is the only thing stopping him from winning the Tour de France. All we know is, he's called the Twig!

@Cog_In_The_Gear Жыл бұрын

Kudos to Andrew on those fenders! I get a lot of pushback from other cyclists saying everything from “If you’re not dirty you haven’t ridden!” to “Fenders just create more drag!” I’ve achieved high and consistent cadence on rolling rail trails with climbing and decents and stayed comfortably clean while doing so.

@6kmanu Жыл бұрын

andrew fenders

@CameronFraserACHF 2 жыл бұрын

The flaw in this video is that it assumes we all have a choice. On more than a few climbs the fastest I can spin my cranks IS a grind.

@bimbobaggypants4820 2 жыл бұрын

If i wanted to keep my heart rate down just for an endurance ride, it would be impossible to keep spinning on a hill even changing to low gears and keeping my heart rate down.

@tim4168 Жыл бұрын

Haha 😄 said by every amateur cyclist ever :) I bought a different cassette 11-38 and i think it's 31 or 32 on the small chainring

@mosmos6960 2 жыл бұрын

I think it is important to highlight that Conor is/was a grand tour type rider who needs to ride for many hours up really big mountains day after day, recovering overnight for the next day (needs to manage fatigue) while the Twig is a hill climber mostly doing relatively short sharp max power efforts lasting a few minutes and therefore fatigue management is not a big issue. They therefore have become accustomed to different techniques to suit their specialties. Also the dark era cyclists has some “supplements” to aid their recovery.

@AlexanderLiffers 2 жыл бұрын

High or low cadence climbing for me generally translates to the same average power. Whilst grinding definitely burns the leg muscles, spinning for me comes at the cost of higher heartrate that then leads to a shortness of breath. So in the end it's usually stand and grind if sprinting up a short but steep climb or sit down and spin (at threshold or slightly below) if the climb is longer like a few km. If it's steep and long, then grab an XC bike.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

There are certainly benefits and drawbacks to both techniques Alexander 👍 Most like to mix it up but some definitely do perform better at higher or lower cadences!!

@toomuch9762 2 жыл бұрын

If you like your knees and want to keep them then a slightly higher heart rate is a small price to pay for a higher cadence

@AlexanderLiffers 2 жыл бұрын

@@toomuch9762 Cars hitting me while on a bike have had more of an impact on my knees than cadence so that ship has sailed. :)

@strobi0001 2 жыл бұрын

I'd recommend spinning since air is relatively unlimited.

@tktspeed1433 Жыл бұрын

@@strobi0001 my asthma disagrees

@redwallace7934 2 жыл бұрын

If you train to spin or train to grind that is your choice but I have blown my knee out on a 115 mile very hilly ride when I was 40 years old( my good wheels had a 13-23 cassette with 42-52 chainrings) after 80 miles of grinding up the hills .my knee made a audible pop I fell over and was done riding for 2 months so my opinion is if your old SPIN !!! I'M 67 NOW AND WOULDN'T THINK OF GRINDING !!

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Indeed Red, if you have the gears, use them!

@tunguyenminh9755 2 жыл бұрын

u mean grinding is not good for knee?

@redwallace7934 2 жыл бұрын

@@tunguyenminh9755 yes, less force

@tibbar1000 2 жыл бұрын

I think that is great advice. I am 61 and do long rides off-road and do not have nearly the aches and pains when I use higher reps.

@treborriam6191 2 жыл бұрын

I'm 65 and I have to grind up steep hills, no choice.

@Relevant_Irrelevance 2 жыл бұрын

The Twig isn't what I expected but I like it. I'm also a natural grinder. Big gears just make me happy.

@JamesSmith-vz8yr 2 жыл бұрын

It's how real men ride..

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

@@JamesSmith-vz8yr Come on James, attitudes like that aren't helpful.

@tomkunich9401 2 жыл бұрын

You do know that there are intermediate cadences don't you? Froomey was unusual because he needed a high cadence to keep up with the flyweights. Most ride closer to 60 rather than 40 and they use the 39 or 42. I now ride a compact but my excuse is that I am a 77 year old who can no longer climb 100,000 meters a year. Not to mention the extra 20 lbs of winter blubber.

@JamesSmith-vz8yr 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcn I bet Emily Bridges is a spinner! 🤣

@tinypixiekitten7806 2 жыл бұрын

Me toooooo!

@frozenbean 2 жыл бұрын

It was nice of the Twig to put himself at a disadvantage by keeping his mudguards on.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

We couldn't believe it when he rocked up with those flappy things on, then goes to fly up that climb in a massive gear!!

@frozenbean 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcn Bar tape was still too heavy it seems. What a legend.

@KarlosEPM 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcn I like his mudguards! Mine aren't long enough and so fail in fully preventing the splatter after rainy days. Is there a video of him presenting his bike?

@thejusmar 2 жыл бұрын

Gonna guess the answer, as it's been for the last 5 other reviews like this: "Whatever is most comfortable for you". Forcing yourself to ride "different" while putting out similar wattage is just going to make you more tired, either mentally and/or physically.

@JohnDoe-xx4ig 2 жыл бұрын

I mean its GCN so the answer would be buy some expensive shit our sponsors make us plaster all over the screen. How about a suuuuuuuperbike climbing bike CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON

@jonnyw2887 2 жыл бұрын

For sure. Personally I'm happy going 90+ rpm most of the time. On the other hand I'd really struggle with anything under 80

@estoylaroca 2 жыл бұрын

No? There's always been a "winner". The conclusion's just for the general audience that watch GCN videos, which are pretty much the casuals of casuals. However, for the people that even spends like $4000 for 3% of power, they also got a conclusion.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jusmar, that's right - whatever is most comfortable for you, as this video shows. Neither of the two extremes were right for either of them, but Conor is more of a spinner and Andrew a grinder!

@devashishanjaria4716 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcn Since you guys repeat the spin vs grind video every year or less you should do it with 3 groups - low, high, individual preference and see how much better the third is

@AirmanJack 2 жыл бұрын

Should have done a 3rd run at rider's discretion with the full range of gears available, would be interesting to see what the whole system (rider and bike) is capable of instead of artificially narrowing the result by cadence.

@-P-Z- 2 жыл бұрын

I second that

@philipholenstein5685 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, this was a miss.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that would have been interesting but Conor wanted coffee and a cake after that 2nd run!! 🤣 We think showing the two extremes though will give you a good enough idea of where each of their peaks would be!

@AirmanJack 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcn as a fellow Clydesdale, I can sympathize with Connor! 😅

@johnlundgren4562 Жыл бұрын

I use a cadence in the high 70's when climbing seated, mid 60's standing .I shift up if I stand on the same grade. I have been riding for over 50 years and my position on the bike and power output is VERY different than when I was in my 30's. My body weight is now 260# no longer 180# I run a triple front; average only 200 watts now at age 70.I like to turn about 90+ rpm on the flat.

@billmccaffrey1977 2 жыл бұрын

It's similar to comparing a sprinter to a middle distance to an ultra distance runner. It all comes down to muscle fiber type: slow oxidative (SO), fast oxidative (FO) and fast glycolytic (FG). Our bodies are optimized for either spinning or grinding. I really enjoyed the comparison and the twig / stig pun.

@edhill8568 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting video. I spent the winter training to maintain pedaling out of the saddle for much longer than I ever could before. I then tried a short hill which averages 11% and found by standing I didn't necessary go any faster but my heart rate was noticeably lower when standing especially using a slow and easy cadence. And I wasn't as tired. So for me it's less about cadence and more about standing and leveraging the added power you get standing. I don't race so just making it easier to climb was my only goal.

@jaydee8553 2 жыл бұрын

The best cadence is the one you can sustain and comfortable with. Usually it is probably best to alternate

@Piplodocus 2 жыл бұрын

I guess this is why all my bikes have more than 2 gears: so I can choose a *sensible* cadence 😜

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Spot on!

@DarkJaxter Жыл бұрын

I'm coming from mountain biking, so it's a little different I suppose, but I typically start my climb in the highest gear I can with the most speed I can, then downshift as needed as I go up. I only run into issues when it gets steeper than I was ready for and end up shifting under load.

@timgerber5563 2 жыл бұрын

When I started riding road bike a few years ago, I always made the mistake that I really liked heavy gears, but as the hill got steeper, I had to shift down, but stayed at the big chain wheel and then eventually had to shift to the smaller one which absolutely killed my speed. Personally, nowadays I am not afraid of shifting into a lower gear with the small front chain wheel earlier and spinning my way into the hill which then helps me not to run out of gears when things get tougher.

@adamkane4217 Жыл бұрын

As a beginner-ish cyclist who has only recently stopped avoiding uphills, this video was super helpful!

@MTBScotland Жыл бұрын

I try to stick to 80-85rpm for climbs. I'm used to that from mountain biking though. amount of fast & slow twitch muscle will affect what cadence you do better with I guess.

@younggunz4081 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for making this video. Very informative and useful for every rider

@MyBetsie 3 ай бұрын

Being a rider (mountain biker, ex roadie) and spinner, spin shows you quickly that the higher the cadence the more forward you sit to engage the muscles correctly, the heavier the load the more you sit back. The 2 riders Froome and Ullrich show this in their riding positions, even though there was many years behind them. When you stand, you are much more forward and engage more muscles, from hip flexors, more glutes and arms, back shoulders, common for grinding a dh bike up a trail when you dont have an uplift. Podacar and Vingegaard both seem to average 88rpm for much of their rides. Which seems to be a magic number. The sprinters are 100rpm on a lead out! Its great that there is so much power data online these days from tour stages.

@lineseven1197 2 жыл бұрын

Connor’s bike hurts my eyes but fills my heart! ❤️ Reminding us to ride whatever you want.

@conordunne1 2 жыл бұрын

❤️🙌

@Ed.R 2 жыл бұрын

To be at maximum efficiency cadence should vary depending on power output. Going from around 65rpm at 100W or less to 72rpm at 200W, 80rpm at 450W and so on.

@rudolphpyatt4833 Жыл бұрын

I ride drop bar three speeds (yes, that’s a thing; look up the history of the Raliegh Record Ace and the 1930s Raliegh/Sturmey-Archer team) so it’s grinding for me. NYC isn’t crazy hilly, but it’s got some where that low gear is useful.

@brianr122 2 жыл бұрын

The Twig - absolutely love it!! Well done GCN

@Jewish.Hotdog Жыл бұрын

I used to bike 8 hours a day in San Francisco doing Doordash etc. Ur absolutely right on old bikes you have no other choice but to get stronger. Long run is totally worth it as ur acceleration on the flats improve like crazy.

@Thecyclingbusdriver 2 жыл бұрын

Andrew is really doing his best not to smile during serious look moment

@Rustee42 2 жыл бұрын

I do long distance multi day bike tours, my motto is slowly and surely gets you there. I always select a cadence a bit easier than the road I'm on. I ride a heavier bike with carried weight, so efficient riding is key.

@oldtwinsna8347 2 жыл бұрын

Depends on the situation. If I'm alone I'll prefer to grind. Trying to stay in a pack that's at my level or better I'll spin to prevent being gapped as I can react faster to changes.

@kevin._.farren 2 жыл бұрын

Feather is an absolute beast! 455 watt average! I think in an earlier video it said he weighed 62 kg…that means he’s climbing at 7.33 w/k…amazing!

@danielpinto1417 2 жыл бұрын

For 6 min 😅 World tour values there.. beast

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

And that was in a gear he wouldn't usually choose!! 😳

@kevin._.farren 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcn right!? Really puts into perspective the gap that separates the elite from the average.

@philfortner1805 11 ай бұрын

The world's top riders cannot get an FTP higher than 6.85watt/kg. FTP is an effort you maintain 20-60 minutes. His effort is much shorter.

@Alesxandros 8 ай бұрын

@@philfortner1805 top riders can go much higher....feather just climb without prior 160 km of race. Take pantani and put him in front of a climb without making 150 km of race and see his power

@willday990 2 жыл бұрын

Twig was hilarious! I’ve often thought that this is the bicycle version of Top Gear, in all the best ways. I’m totally a grinder. Thanks for all the education and entertainment this channel provides.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it Will!!

@lazylonewolf 2 жыл бұрын

I'll take breathing harder than potentially damaging my knees, thank you very much. Grinding for short climbs though, or if I have no choice like if I'm using my 6-speed foldie. I was happily surprised I can actually go up short hills with that thing when I tried it the first time. I don't think I'll run across problems unless there are more or long hills on my path. It helps that I was weightlifting (squats and deadlifts) again.

@russellbride 2 жыл бұрын

I find around 80 rpm a good sweet spot. It's also recommended to run at around that cadence as opposed to plodding. Higher cadence is definitely easier on the knees.

@RobinCapper Жыл бұрын

I naturally settle around 80-90 too

@stockbore 2 жыл бұрын

I'm finding myself spinning more. However, when I'm riding for a long-time, I mix spinning with grinding to ease the soreness on some of my muscles.

@marksIItimewarps Жыл бұрын

I spinned a lot, I spin on the flats, I spin when I train, and I used to spin on climbs but I grinded the entire time during a 6k ft climb in the middle of a century ride on a bike that weighed 42 lbs with load and only had flat pedals after doing 3 weeks of training with low cadence intervals mixed with high cadence intervals. I only weigh 120 lbs so my bike is a huge chunk of my body weight and to my surprise, I made PR on most of the climbing segments when I grinded at bigger gears at lower cadence. My legs never went sore to my surprise. They felt fresh the entire time. I now train at both high and low cadence. I got this useful free advice from a trainingpeaks article that lightweight riders like me can get faster on climbs if I mix low cadence/big gear intervals into my training.

@kiannadariooshbonnet4200 2 жыл бұрын

I prefer switching it up depending on how I feel. I’d say that I am typically a spinner, as I was previously a runner so my cardiovascular system is definitely stronger than my legs, but I’ll do a bit of both. I probably should be doing more of the low cadence though. 😂

@jefferycampbell2243 2 жыл бұрын

Timely video, I've just been experimenting with this on Alpe du Zwift. I found that dropping my cadence from 90 average to 80 average I had 10W higher power at the same heart rate, and took 5 minutes off my best time. I always thought I had to avoid grinding in order to survive the Alpe, but this showed me that even after 45+ years of riding it's important to experiment as you may get a pleasant surprise.

@cyclingformortals2231 Жыл бұрын

Are you climbing it at 100% difficulty level?

@keithm1493 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info Jeffery. I have been riding high cadence 90-100 (both on Zwift and IRL) but am finding my HR higher than I want. I am just starting to consciously lower my cadence and will be interested to see the watts vs HR numbers.

@cyclingformortals2231 Жыл бұрын

@@keithm1493 unless you are an elite rider I highly doubt you can sustain 80-90rpm average at those gradients in alpe du zwift if you set the difficulty level to 100%

@keithm1493 Жыл бұрын

@@cyclingformortals2231 My higher cadence averages were not on Alpe. I’m more in the 75-80 range on Alpe. And when I ride it I don’t have my trainer at 100%. The cassette on my indoor road bike and my smart trainer is not a great climbing cassette (11-25) so I take advantage of the “virtual cassette” by lowering trainer difficulty. Watts are still watts.

@cyclingformortals2231 Жыл бұрын

@@keithm1493 “power is power” is scientifically false because your legs can’t supply unlimited force. 300W on 5% or shallower is so much easier than 300W on 10% or steeper. The latter requires more force because of the drop in cadence. The drop in cadence is because you do not have unlimited gears. But even if you do have unlimited leg power and gears, steeper gradients force you to apply force throughout the entire crank rotation. On shallower gradients you have the advantage of momentum so you are basically freewheeling on the crank dead spot positions (6 and 12 o’clock). It’s not the same. It’s basic physics.

@hungrysurfer9471 Жыл бұрын

If you add a bit of swimming into your trainning, your heart and lung fitness will improve a lot, then a fast cadence is less difficult.

@robbiedevine8518 2 жыл бұрын

I wish this was out there when i started 20 yrs ago, would've saved me tendonitis trying to grind like all the roadies said I should back then. When i finally set up my road bike with less than 1:1 in the smallest ring, i set my personal record at 110 cadence. Body types are different.

@GPflashclass 2 жыл бұрын

In GCN's, "How To Climb Like Movistar's Mikel Landa," he talks about how important low cadence torque exercises are. If Conner keeps up the low cadence exercises he will be even more of a beast on climbs.

@tibbar1000 2 жыл бұрын

I suspect the years of riding before this experiment determined the outcome. I would like to see the discussion include information on slow twitch versus fast twitch muscle fibers.

@1pittmanj 2 жыл бұрын

Just getting back into cycling after a 2+ year hiatus, and I know everyone is different but help me to understand. Why wouldn’t you start with the most resistance that you can push at a lower rpm, and once you get your leg strength built up, just up the RPM by 20% or so and get your cardiovascular system built up?

@glharlor 2 жыл бұрын

I'm in my 40s. I ride at around 95 to 105 rpm pretty much always.average around 18mph. Ride in very flat area. I have an exceptionally low heart rate. Around 40 bpm at rest, so that might be a reason I like high cadence.

@doobi.sikleta 2 жыл бұрын

When I started cycling from beginning to like 1 year of few rides and more on commute 50k 2x a week and 1 35k a week. I was a pure grinder false flat, flat, uphill then spring came I joined a long ride. Might be just a medium ride to others, only 100km I was purely grinding the whole ride. After 70k I can't pedal anymore, energy drained. Summer came I practiced spinning then I first attempt to climb did on the hard climb around town til I ran 120k without a problem anymore. My rig is alu bike 12kg 9speed 11-26 cassette but ain't a problem after I learned spinning. So to say, for me it's spinning. Also best counter to headwind 😁

@g_y.rtz420 7 ай бұрын

Man tripping right now i just rewatched Yowamushi Pedal the other day and the finale for that show was a 1v1 climb to the finish with these 2 styles against each other, the main protagonist raising his cadence to match his opponent who shifts UP gears while climbing. What a trip despite the show being super wacky at times it does feature some realism, albeit being heavily exaggerated.

@Rose_Butterfly98 2 жыл бұрын

I prefer spinning. Used to race my friend all the time, he preferred grinding. I won every time, he was stronger than me and had a way better bike. I think height plays a part. I'm short and spinning is just naturally easier for me. A lot of people I've met say my natural cadence is high. Plus my heart is on the small side so I can go past 200bpm, can't take advantage of that while grinding. But if I'm going really long distance I'll do 80rpm to cruise and save energy.95rpm looks about the same cadence I normally ride. Also I think I'm not strong enough to actually grind so spinning is my only option. According to Strava, my highest power output is only 261w, I normally can't even do 200 I think.

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing! 👍

@joed7185 2 жыл бұрын

is spinning when you have the bike in on the small chainring instead of the big chainring?

@Rose_Butterfly98 2 жыл бұрын

@@joed7185 no spinning is above a certain rpm, when you don't feel like you're pushing hard

@taflo1981 2 жыл бұрын

In my case, the correlation between height and cadence is the other way around. I'm taller than anyone I ride with, but also ride at a significantly higher cadence. I lack the strength to push big gears for a longer time, but I'm perfectly fine riding up a mountain pass in the alps at 90 rpm for an hour. At shorter climbs like the one in the video, I tend to spin at 95-100 rpm.

@Rose_Butterfly98 2 жыл бұрын

@@taflo1981 maybe it's something to do with upper leg to lower leg ratios. Something like the stroke length in a car engine. Shorter stroke, better at higher rpm.

@gatorage850 2 жыл бұрын

Everyone with their numbers! I just stick it in the hardest gear to push - if it's too hard or start to burn move it down. The harder gear also just feels smoother and easier to control RPM (more relax). The problem with the other way around (Spinning) is it's harder to slow down your heart rate and breathing by switching from Spinning to a harder gear Vs stopping leg burn - dropping to an easier gear.

@shellypalumbo5297 Жыл бұрын

I’m 69. Don’t know if means anything. I’ve learned that grinding at very low cadence allows me to effectively engage my glutes predominantly over my quads which have far more power and a much higher LT. I always climb steep climbs at a cadence of

@ssenssel 11 ай бұрын

2:13 As somebody who just installed similar mudguards on his bike, this is nice to see. 👏👏🥰🥰

@revoluzer04 2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful colour of your bike

@neilo2323 Жыл бұрын

Jan Ukkrich used to train for the TdF by riding up the featured mountains in the big chain ring.

@wongasaur 2 жыл бұрын

I may not be the first comment on this video but I’ll be the first to agree that Connor’s new bike and custom colours are as tasteful as si’s mtb tights from way back when 😂 just joking it doesn’t actually look as bad as I thought it would!!

@gcn 2 жыл бұрын

The 🦄💩 as Ollie called it!

@mikefule330 2 жыл бұрын

I live on the edge of LIncolnshire, UK, and have to ride a few miles to even find a hill. The nearest decent challenge is about 10 miles away. I can ride up it on my fixed gear (about 72") by standing on the pedals and grinding, but if I'm on my geared road bike, I find myself clicking right down the ratios very early in the climb and winching myself up. The time taken to climb the hill is roughly the same, and I feel about as out of breath whichever bike I'm on. In normal riding on the flat, I'm more of a spinner than grinder.

@austinj8335 2 жыл бұрын

That custom Orbea paintjob is 🔥

@RenoSpeedSkater Жыл бұрын

good info video! i was curious about your HR. i am a speed skater. At times. i am able to slow my stride cadence to a slower more powerful , yet i surprisingly avg a high speed pace with a lower heart rate. i always felt this was interesting.

@zedfourme5085 2 жыл бұрын

75-80 for flats on rides over 40 miles, 80-85 flats under 40 miles, enter climbs at 100-105rpm and slowly work my to maintain 80-85 for the climb. I have huge meaty legs and had a naturally low cadence in the 50s. By raising my cadence I am able to cycle further for longer. Spinning works for me.

@guysmith3326 2 жыл бұрын

I have a couple of nice modern bikes and some late seventies vintage Raleighs. On a vintage bike with 42 at the front and 25 at the back there is no choice for me but to grind. My modern BMC has 32 at the front and 32 at the back so I can spin if I choose. The BMC is four pounds lighter than my best Raleigh, but the seven minute average difference on my local 12 km climb at 8% is all down to cadence. At 60rpm my old legs will quit long before the cardiovascular system. My fastest times up climbs are at 90-95 rpm. Of course I am only doing a modest 220W up those climbs.

@highcadence901 Жыл бұрын

I use to be a grinder , switched to high cadence , and wow I feel I am more efficient legs do not pool up with acid , it’s about training your cardiovascular engine , slowly you’ll find that you can sustain that high pace spinning, look at the tour rider when the pace goes up almost all are spinning and not grinding

@gummonster1 2 жыл бұрын

I grind my gears and torque my cranks so hard going to work everyday that I snap the connector link on my chain once a month. Its great!

@1966jamesM 2 жыл бұрын

Spinning is not a new "thing". I was taught to spin in the 70's and 80's and as a young club rider I was told everything else would follow. They were right, it did, strength and overall fitness. Now in my late 50's with pins holding one of my hips together, the speed has gone but I can still knock out over 180 rpm when I need to - great for the occasional attack on the Saturday Cafe ride! Not to say I don't do low cadence work, as there's physiological adaptions that are made training at different cadences the same as at different power outputs, different heart rates and so on. Mix it up.

@erlendsteren9466 Жыл бұрын

I am slightly more grinder because I am naturally slow, but I have an idea I use sometimes. The idea is to avoid some gearshifting. When it gets light the legs spins faster, and on top of the mini-hills I am out of the saddle and pushing hard and slower. This way I both improve cadence and grinding -power. I believe that excersing with different cadence is very good excersise, both building speed and muscels.

@olekmehera7256 2 жыл бұрын

I always spin, just comes naturally, having gotten into cycling after a long hiatus I focused first on my strength in the legs which is where the grinding comes into play and then I wanted to work on conditioning which is where I span that bad boy up like a cyclone. Personally spinning is just more enjoyable and where I live conditioning is super important and the hills are steep and long so it's impossible to get up the climb grinding unless you go into the red half way up one

@add1cted2l3arning 2 жыл бұрын

Love the Top Gear homage

@starlitshadows 2 жыл бұрын

Any idea what the rpm on the lower cadence was for both of you? I tend to do best in the 70's and 80's range myself. But that can go up or down depending on the grade and whether I'm standing or seated. Too high and no power and I tire out, too low and my legs take a beating with little gained. Middle ground and mixing it up between standing and seated seems best for me

@splovelace 6 ай бұрын

I’ve tried it both ways. What I came to discover is simply doing what feels most comfortable is best. Although, there’s really no comfort to be had when climbing. And BTW, what’s up with the fenders?

@adviser3655 2 жыл бұрын

This would have been really useful if it started with a natural run by each guy...with varying cadence according to feeling and slope, and with a (m-bike) follower to show where cadence changes occurred....then comparison of high/low cadences would be really meaningful - thanks guys...fascinating!

@SwanWillTearYouApart 2 жыл бұрын

interesting . the TrainerRoad guys say that pedalling at lower cadences burns more sugar / carbohydrate. If true this becomes a big issue when doing long events with lots of climbs surely ?

@quikesteve 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, very interesting. But you guys really needed to do a baseline climb, just at your natural cadence and power. To compare if you were faster or slower than normal and then each of the two extremes. And show average power, cadence, time and perceive effort. It would have been a more complete test. Keep up the amazing videos coming.

@paulrobinson4987 Жыл бұрын

It's a mix between crank length versus your inseam length, your body weight, and muscle fiber twitchslow or fast. Cranks should be between 18%and 19% of your leg inseam length.

@ricf9592 Жыл бұрын

I train for hours at low cadence (60 rpm) 200 Watts + in Zone 2. The strength developed lets me climb the biggest hills on the big chain ring. 01/06/2023: I can now do 4 Watts/kg in Zone 2.

@phillipmoore6249 2 жыл бұрын

Spin to win! gotta dance like Lance is the way to go!

@EmrysJones 2 жыл бұрын

Can't miss a feather video 😎

@najibnajmudin512 2 жыл бұрын

Definitely grinding for me. My bike weight a ton that even 34-30 won't allow me to spin, just grind my way up turtle speed ahead.

@carnicer78 2 жыл бұрын

interesting experiment, unexpected (to me) results nice!

@gerrysecure5874 Жыл бұрын

The optimum cadence has a U shape going with duration of effort. A 20s sprint is around 135rpm, a 5min vo2 interval goes at 70rpm, a 20min ftp test at 80rpm and a 1hr time trial at roghly 93rpm. This is why force reaches limit when sprinting so you have to increase cadence and in longer efforts muscle fibers get too tired and blood stream is hindered with lower cadence and high force.

@imprezaaudi 2 жыл бұрын

low cadence for me is 80rpm , high 100rpm. I vary up and down to either lower HR or give legs a rest from lower cadence. My mean cadence is around 88-92rpm for optimum power output over an hour. Short bursts I will use low cadence to start with by using my 90+kg weight to drive the pedals. Sprints I will rev upto 120rpm for max power

@andras.89 2 жыл бұрын

What Cannondale model (and mods) is this what Andrew rides on? Looks like a dream commuter

@ianpellant9312 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Guys, Good entertainment but you didn't mention the real world problem of being on a hill, grinding, and then around the next bend, the grade steepens, and you are stuck in too high a gear and the gears will not down change under the load. My bikes typically have been 3x9 and almost all of them did not like big shifts under heavy load. When I knew the hill, I could select ratios in advance, but on unknown territory, I occasionally was surprised by sudden grade increase and would stall out if grinding too hard. Maybe 1X12 gearsets are an answer? Any advice on strategies for climbing uncharted hills? Cheers from Down-Under

@terrencesala5255 2 жыл бұрын

Dylan johnson did a good video on why cyclists should do squats at the gym a couple of times a week to make you stronger on the bike on hill climbs especially in a head wind

@keithburt7874 2 жыл бұрын

I idled in First Gear in a small diesel pickup behind Shanna Armstrong on Col d'Izoard while she climbed into the night, slow and Big Ring until she topped 10%, World Championship with Rob Kish 07 LeTour Ultime, made me cry until I mastered front derailleur hacks&tips

@pete2673 2 жыл бұрын

For most of the normal cyclists the answer is pretty easy (at last in a steeper climb)… Grinding is the only option because you do not have enough easy gears and/or enough good condition to spin fast 😬

@Pineapple-Express_MX 2 жыл бұрын

Who makes the orange shoes?? They are epic!! Would match my bike perfect.

@KazeyoYT 2 жыл бұрын

I usually do grinding and spinning on my practice. Spinning gives me good results but it exhausts me like crazy. Grinding is comfortable for me but it takes a lot more power compared to spinning. So just gotta find the right balance.

@martinromeo1006 Жыл бұрын

Grey job guys well done 👏

@longbra 2 жыл бұрын

I’m a grinder, but knee joint has been literally ground down to an osteoarthritis condition. I can now get my joints to crack under stress and sometimes wake up with a soreness around my knee. Probably not all from biking. I haven’t been kind to my body over the years, and am starting to pay the price.

@davidcumbie1039 2 жыл бұрын

I'm always amused at these comparisons of grinding vs spinning when climbing. For some of us, and it's probably a fairly high percentage of the TOTAL cycling community, when the grade gets above 6-7% for very long, spinning is not a choice. Only weight weenies have a choice. When the grade hits 9-10%, I'm lucky to be able to turn the pedals over at 50 rpm.

@Mububban23 2 жыл бұрын

What gearing do you have? I’ve got an endurance bike with 50-34 and 11-34 cassette. I’m super skinny and FTP estimated at 160 watts lol. With those gears I can spin >80rpm up almost double digit grades. If I try and grind I just stall with my chicken legs and the muscles burn way too fast

@agenthoini 2 жыл бұрын

Thats about the only thing i like about being limited to a mtb, i have plenty of gears to just keep spinning (although i dont my my actual cadence). The drawback is once im above 35kph i run out of gears on that end (plus the obvious weight and aero issues) :D

@michaelyblam 2 жыл бұрын

I am naturally low cadence grinder and often wonder if I can do better to train myself with higher cadence. One thing this video doesn't take into account is recovery. Riding low cadence I suspect will take longer recovery time thus a grand tour rider will have to find the optimal cadence for optimal power and for optimal recovery while as one can go all out in a one day classic race.

@hunterdean11 2 жыл бұрын

Recently switched from 38t to 36t on the mtb it was a nice switch now I have two gears < 1:1

@RS-il5zw 5 ай бұрын

Had followed the mantra of use higher cadence, but found myself limited on higher gradient climbs. Heart rate rises quickly and exhaustion follows. I've done some sessions on the indoor trainer with high and low cadence - heart rate at lower cadence is much lower and I can complete higher gradient climbs without exhaustion setting in. Other thing to note is that on steeper climbs, the speed you can maintain is lower which also means that the amount of airflow around your body is lower and so there is less cooling effect - having a lower cadence and heart rate reduces the onset/effect of additional thermal exhaustion.

@timothyduvernet2711 Жыл бұрын

I don't recall any mention of the balance of crank arm length in this. I have a custom built bike with a recommended shorter crank arm, based on my physiology. Fit of the bike and crank arm length must make a big difference in how your body will respond to different strategies. Bike design as well. We ain't all the same!

@cplatt1205 2 жыл бұрын

I tend towards assuming better cardio, lower force output legs = tendency towards higher cadence twiddling. Higher force output legs, suboptimal cardio = tendency towards lower cadence grinding. Obviously there's incremental steps in-between and leeway vis getting better cardio and/or strength to close whatever gap exists in your arsenal.

@aethylwulfeiii6502 11 ай бұрын

Thank god they got rid of Junior gears. I usually found that higher cadences led to some inefficient bounce causing overuse injuries in the nether regions and leading to disappointing performances. I like crushing my big gears, and it’s way easier to have an even power distribution throughout. But self selected cadence is always best.

@billmcdonald4335 Жыл бұрын

Back in my day [mid-80s to mid-90s] I concentrated on both. Spin for the short, steep stuff - honkin' for the cols. 42x28 low gear. Spinning wasn't an option on the cols. . .

@klaasdeboer8106 5 ай бұрын

How to train for a climbing vacation in a flat country?_I´m a dutch,an living in Amsterdam. I have done some climbing on vacations and during the five months I lived at the western side of the massif central. I allways spin rather than grind, besause in my flat country you don´t build climbing muscles very well, and since I allso am a recreational runner, I can spin the pedals reasanobly quick. Now I am 54, but would like to go bikepacking next spring somewhere hilly. I allready am running on a regular base for four months slowly building up my legs, and making a trip often by train to the 100 meters hills an hour east from amsterdam for riding uphill. At the moment I don´t really feel like traintrips so I thought about the bridges in the neughbourhood, I have a couple of nice bridges at hand which go over the canal that connects Amsterdam to the rhine so they are pretty high, I was wondering if it is a good idea to train especially grinding, to build the somew musclepower, and alternate this with spinning, Anyway, I am looking foreward to do it, And because most of the bridges is not very steep I am going to fill my saddle bags with 15 kilograms of waterr bottles There is a beautifull view from the bridges and the weather is predicted to be windy. I am looking foreward to it because I actually get very depressed by the gloomyness of winter, and even in the worst weather I allways feel a lot better from being outside and moving, be it running or biking. ts my way to mentally survive this winter.