jp43training.com/body-position-moto-gp-comparison-just-isnt-realistic/

Absolutely spot on! I’ve been saying the same thing for yonks. I’m a track day instructor, for road riding there is no benefit to hanging off, it’s exactly as you say. Glad you have highlighted this, I just hope riders take note.

Spine parallel to the bike , arms relaxed, and counter steer to lean the bike. So the body need not do anything extreme to upset the front end. Also motogp body positions are a matter of extreme speeds (more speed, more lean required for a tighter turn) on a machine designed to do that with tyres to support and a maintained track (no oil, debris etc) where it's safe and every pro rider knows the basic safety and etiquette. So it would stand to reason that public roads are not the place to execute anything extreme because the conditions of a race track and race machine are not applicable.

I hope you will read this Greg. After you posted this video I couldnt wait to give it a try. I just returned; I did over 100 miles, I did not wanted to stop. I was passing curves with such a smoothenes and higher speed and felt safer than before. My chicken strips have 1 finger left which is an awesome safety buffer. Like you said I have more feedback and feel more connected to the bike. I enjoy riding but I want to come back to my daughter in one piece. Thank God Im living in a country which is motorcycle heaven. Furthermore I can see obstacles and slow vehicle much faster especially now when it is time of grape harvest and there can be tractors right after exiting right blind corner. Thank you Greg! 👍

Yep my grandpa and I were just talking about those guys body position. It’s more old school. You have to admit the elbows down does look really cool though

Another great video! Now I know the correct body positioning, and what "over doing" it looks like. There are simply a lot of "bad examples" that I thought was the correct way. Good thing there are concerned people teaching the right way to do it. ❤😊

love your videos, learning so much for correct riding + focusing on my slow speed skills .. not worrying about 'how much tyre i can rub' and 'hanging off the bike".... on a side note, dude, how clean is your garage floor, like a bike operating theater, love it !! those integrated indicators, wow, extra luxe

that bike looks nice, the intergrated turn signals i mean, instead of sticking out separately waiting to break if the bike falls down 😄 I really learn a lot from Motojitsu videos 👍

Greg, I was recently at the Dragon riding my Wing and was keeping up with a couple sport bikes and a super Moto. I noticed their line selections caused them to have to lean a lot more than I was. I was able to keep my bike a lot more upright because of my line (I did not cross the yellow line). I made the same observation about my body positioning that you explained in this video.

Thanks for your videos and for getting a sport bike and for all. You thought me to think what I’m doing when riding.

Super useful and makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

This is the exact technique that I discovered feels most natural and efficient for me. I'm also on a Ninja 400, so "trying" to drag knee is just unnecessarily pulling that lightass bike down into a lowside

I get off and lean more "naturally" when I am going faster and the corner is sharper, otherwise I do what you do. No need to get off excessively in a soft corner. Also, these pro riders are in crazy physical condition to enable them do what they do.

I agree with you at the beginning my body position was fine like you say here, but I was told to exaggerate and hang off more and it does become tiring and it makes me focus less on countersteering and trail braking.

Good stuff man! Especially for street riding! 🤙🏼

Finally! With current sport bikes people move way too much.

Great Stuff ... as Always !! 🙌🏽✌🏽

So pleased I saw this. I've seen so many videos saying you don't need to lean off the bike at all, just stay central and push your arse against the back of the seat hump etc.... After I practiced trail braking and counter steering "upright" I hated it! Felt like the bike was going to run wide. So I changed my body position to hanging right off, and as has been said on here. I felt disconnected. So I went to moving my arse 3 inches or so and lowering my head and it was an honest to god revelation combined with trail braking and counter steering. I feel safer, more stable, more in control and faster. And to me thats all that counts 🙂

Motorcycle riding is a sport that’s constantly evolving. No one’s found the perfect technique heck look at twist of the wrist, the way they taught to load up the rear tire on those old compounds it’s way different than how it’s taught now

Thanks for the video...your previous videos helped me relax and stop trying to move as much. I pretty much move like this on the bike out of necessity; my motorcycle jeans aren't flexible and my bike (Z900RS cafe) sits upright, so it is difficult to move around a lot. I reviewed my insta360 footage and noticed I wasn't moving as much; tried moving more and it felt a lot more uncomfortable and with diminished returns.

Excellent! Keep it coming! Great info! If you come to Austin for MotoGP let me know. Cheers!

Finally someone posted vid how to ride, 💯 man guys on the dragon need to watch this

Thank you for sharing the outcome with us.

You just described exactly how I ride the twisties, thanks lol I feel affirmed. I think I move my head more than you did in that video, though. Also, I never freaking noticed that about Gagne. In my defense I usually watch motogp, I find it boring that Gagne just dominates everything all the time. I want to love it, I could, but currently I can't. But you're right, his positioning is way more relaxed. Neat.

Tks for this amazing video... Will try this way now... 👍 👌

Great vid. I might have to consider moving back to southern california for year round canyon riding :)

Nice video! Riders should just do what’s best for them and within the comfort zone. I tend to hang off quite a bit to limit lean angle and it “feels” good to me. My coach is significantly faster than me and doesn’t touch knee at all. It’s all about comfort. I will say though, shifting weight to inside is scientifically better for the sake of reducing lean, increasing contact patch and offering more potential for drive. And Jonny is very capable of hanging off or doing a “hook turn”, he has plenty of photos with his elbow nearly down. That photo might be more of an outlier than the norm. Caveat; I’m talking about track riding. I haven’t been on the street in some years. Nonetheless, love your channel and keep at it.

What a fantastic video 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

This is one of your best vids and explanations …

Even Alex Rinse is pretty much straight up, not a lot of lean angle, and his corner speed is one of the best. So I totally agree with you on the body position.

I lean a little forward and a little towards to the turn to get a little more weight to the front tire.

Been practicing body positioning and it definitely felt like I was moving around way too much and was not comfortable for me

This ones got me messed up. I watch a lot of your videos and really value your opinion due to your experience. You have made videos before regarding body position, both upper and lower, that really helped me get faster on the track. Body, head, bike. Half cheek off, extend leg, head by mirror, will all decrease lean angle with higher speed. This video is the complete opposite of what everybody teaches for speed, including YCRS.

Thanks man

Keep up awesome vids burv :D

Jitsu!!! Looking smooth!!👍🤙

Thanks

This is how I ride but I’m not really trying to go super fast. I just let my inside leg move in from gravity. With good tires I feel solid hitting corners at a fun pace.

Hey man thank for these great tutorials I’m a rookie and riding a 250cc bike and by watching your videos my riding skills is improving everyday. I have a question regarding entry speed for each corners and want to know how much speed is good enough not to fall the bike or get out of turn ? Cheers mate! ❤

Thank you MotoJitsu i needed to watch this, im going to give it a solid try tomorrow. i do feel disconnected and unstable. 👍

Great video. It highlights how much more practice I need in riding a sport bike. Thanks for sharing.

I've been moving at least the upper body and head inside since I started riding big bikes, and now if I try to make a sharp corner upright I feeling uneasy, since it requires way more lean than I'm used to

I see you’ve turned the comments back on. Balance my friend you got this ❤

thank you

We got comments back available! Good to see you Fast Eddie!

I do agree with you for the pace on this video but that's more like fast cruising pace than sport riding...at Higher speeds I really believe that to be on a much extreme "out of the bike body position" is must faster and safer. In the end is just physics..

Atp I think it’s a matter of what u like. As long as ur fundamentals are solid and your style is efficient and comfortable to u then it’s just what you like. I prefer hanging off I feel safer doing it like that, some people probably prefer staying centerline and that’s alright. I think if ur searching for speed rather than looks then it won’t matter. That’s what makes motorcycle racing so fun to watch. Who is better at their own style.

Good stuff - thanks. Almost all observatory roads are great. I used to ride up to Lick Observatory twice a week.

This is best ever

Appreciate you always sharing knowledge that we supposed to pay money to learn!

At 3:02: those following WSBK know that there are times when Jonathan Rea’s outside foot is not even on the footpeg at all. He uses his outside leg as a hook not to fall off his bike. Just watch the Portimão round (29.9 - 1.10.2023) and you will see that his outside foot often skids and looses contact with the peg.

I feel more in control when i am over the bike. Yep horse tried to throw me yesterday. Unintentional wheelie around a slow turn. I was over the bike so was able to recover.

Enlightenment is something not for everyone. People loose the essence of a enjoyable ride with the pressure of knee dragging. excellent video and article. Hopefully will open the eyes of some.

Thank you again for your educational video. I do have a tip for all riders: stick electrical tape over the microphone of your camera, you will hear the engine but not the wind noise.

I guess as Andy Ibbott from CSS said, the distance from the tank to the wedding tackle is just your fist distance away.

100% what @MrDeepseadweller said bellow but I would add that leaning your head and shoulders slightly and progressively to the inside displaces considerably more weight, more effectively than shifting your butt and knee. You don't need to "Put your head below the bars".

I felt this yesterday on my r3, fairly new to riding so doing what i felt like was really good body position through corners and then some guy on his gsx750 just blows passed me casually like he's on a Sunday drive, hardly moving at all through the corners.

Hi Greg and thanks for the amazing work you do! I started riding recently and I have been practicing low-speed turns on my sportbike. My question is: I noticed that at low-speed maneuvers the butt is hanging off in the opposite direction in which I am going, in order to counter-balance the bike and prevent if from falling while leaning, so: I look left, lean left, buttcheck a little right. In this video however it looks like the whole body is committed to one direction and also the buttcheck is going left when leaning left. Could you/someone help me on this? Thanks!

Great vid. I also feel too disconnected hanging off too much, and the fatigue kills the joy of riding.

this biggest thing people forget to mention is road/track quality. If you have 2 tracks which are identical in shape and length, except 1 of them is track quality asphalt and the other is road quality with potholes, loose gravel and dirt, the way you ride and your body position is going to drastically differ. On the road you need to keep the bike as upright as possible (if you're maximizing safety of course). The less contact patch, the more likely it will slip at the tiniest bit of dirt. Also, the more upright your bike the better your suspension will work when you hit a pothole or small divet in the road. Every corner of a track is (almost) the same on the 10th lap as it is on the 50th, but on a public road the same corner can be very different every hour.

This makes no sense. 1.) Jonathan Rea hangs of his bike like everybody else, including touching with the elbow. The picture shown in this video is probably after the bike is straight coming out of a corner (most liely sliding the back to help turn in) I just had to check the race at Aragon a couple of days ago to make sure. 2.) Moving your butt makes no sense on the road at all, and it does not transfer any meaningful weight - its a preperation for moving your body over. If you need to transfer weight simply relax your inside elbow, this automatically moves the body slightly into the corner and helps stabilise it and you body will follow your eyes to were you are going. TEST IT: have a friend sit on his bike, hold it by the handlebars, let him move his butt. Feel anything? Now do the same just moving your head out towards the mirrors - on the GSXR just outside the screen - keep the body straight and relaxed just let it follow the head naturally. Feel the difference ? Thats why they move the body. On track you have to move the butt because your are hanging of - but only when you start getting up to a good pace. Moving the body is far more important. If you are scraping your knees or hanging of the bike on the road you are either going way to fast and suicidal (the speeds used in these videos are not close) or posing.

I've found - for me and my very different body type - I'm most comfortable keeping my butt stationary side to side on the seat, but I'll rotate my hips and shoulders a bit and move my upper body. I'm also riding an mt10, so (by sport bike standards) I'm quite upright. Head and shoulders move in, but not a whole lot, at my zestiest no further than the mirrors off center line relative to the bike. And the mt10 mirrors arent super wide. Critical for me, is I'm not pushing far forward, so im not "kissing the mirror" so leverage has a very significant impact - im 6'4" and 300lbs. There's real wind pressure on me because mt10, but i enjoy that. As a big dude, its not tiring. I can have have done the hanging off the bike thing, but i dont like being so disconnected from it, and I've got a lot of mass to move so quick transitions are exhausting.

Maybe we should be looking at road racers for road body position tips such as TT racers and Irish road racers, they seem to be arse off and head up for most corners,

That looks cool …

No need for knee down, out at all.

i feel like he makes the thumbnails look like james macavoy from Split... lol 😅

ok nice i learn something now just wait for kawasaki release my bike from workshop asap.

With that mustache, Greg's gonna look like "Fast Eddie" means something entirely different lol I've been watching videos like this one, but as a new rider, it gives me a bit too much to think about while developing more basic skills. Still, I'm glad he's been making them, because when I get there, it means I know a good place for rational information. I can't even count the times people have shared links on various platforms, wherein someone is giving pure nonsense about riding a motorcycle.

I agree with everything you say but if I was going to be a critical pain in the arse I would say you need to get more radical with your road positioning. Get further out left for a right hand bend and vice-versa. For any given corner you can go faster and it also increases your vision round the bend. Have fun.

Great video! Is your mechanic originally from Hungary? :D

this is so true tho

I like to lean enough that the steering becomes perfectly neutral. This is a different amount on every bike, but usually not too far at all.

I actually feel much more connected to my sport bike when I change my body position depending on the situation. I can only have a relaxed upper body when I move a little to the side in corners because then my inner leg takes automatically most of the weigth being supported by the tank. If I ride in the alps thats very importent since there are a lot of forces and i need my arms to be relaxed. when i do tighter corners i at some point need to hang off a little otherwise i don't have any safty buffer. So i don't think hanging off is a bad thing for sport bike riding on the street if u use it to feel more confortable with your bike.

niceeeee

I'm confused can someone please explain, I thought leaning your head off and keeping the bike as upright as possible was the best way to turn?? letting the bikes suspension work.. What's said here goes against what's said in Twist of the Wrist..??

I can't think of any time more drama improves things in real life, it's just for the movies.

This is an interesting idea. I personally find it easier to leave my lower body in the middle of the bike and lean my upper body off the bike when i want to be smooth and efficient

I have a question for those who know to lean in turns: did anyone tried to measure lean angle vs speed, and any info on that ? (talking about sport & naked bikes). I saw once kind of comparison table, which shows street & sport bikes can lean to 40-50 degrees, and motoGP guys go to 55 degrees, but would like to know opinions of real people. I am a new rider, with less than 2000 miles experience, plus roads in the city where I live are not lean-friendly (not so many turns, but lots of cars from different directions, have to slow down and watch out all directions).

I just rode my buddies Duke 390 on some premium twisties today. That thing carves up corners like a slot car. Lol

I think it's important to remember that a riders weight will determine how much the rider has to lean over to get the bike to turn properly. Heavy guy don't have to move much to displace the cog but most motogp guys weigh 120lbs they have to put all their weight to one side 😊

I want to see sone knee dragging and mote information on that. Speeding in turns

I think body position on the street should be whatever the rider is comfortable with on his bike. As long as you are going in a pace that is within your skill level and not completly bonkers i don't care if you are trying to look cool with your knee down, the problem are the morons that think you need to go 150mph on the street to look like rossi.

The idea is simple: get through the corner fastest with the least amount of effort and lean angle... Point your bellybutton in the corner direction. That will set your hips in the correct position. The rest of your body will follow. Knee down, elbow down, chin down and upload to insta...getting real tedious. Next is face down. Find that line and ride.

Changing you recommendations over time back and forth is honest, but frustrating

You should watch some of Neevesy's videos, you'd understand how wrong you are in a very short time.. he's humble yet very knowledgeable, street and track wise..

This body position is also how pretty much all road racers on IOM etc. ride

From what i see is, he will have to lean the bike more than if he leaned his upper body. And if you lean the bike more you are leaving yourself open to risk such as potholes or imperfections which is common on public roads.

So you are basically not trying to keep the bike upright, correct? Doesn't this mean you get less grip from the tires since the weight of rhe bike is pushnig more diagonal to the ground? I always thought you were supposed to hang more off the bike to allow the bike to be more upright and consequently have more grip and be safer...am i wrong?

I have done a couple of "track days" at Pittsburgh International Raceway. Lee Parks Total Control has the contract for PA (side note: msf courses, including the advanced rider course at Pitt Raceway or the Poconos, are free to PA residents). They teach the Total Control technique of course, and I have always felt that it is more of a racing technique than a street riding technique. I have taken some things from the course to apply to street riding, but it is very challenging and very tiring to do this technique through consecutive tight twisties with advisory speeds of 20-35 mph. Incidentally, I ride with some older guys who are super fast and super smooth through the tight twisties and they hardly move at all - its crazy to see how fast they are and how still they seem to be sitting!

Let the damn bike do the work and if you dont get in the way of that, thats all you have to do

Where this at?thanks

Same tutorial but for track ? Should be awesome

Your pace in this video is it within the speed limit?

Yes I've always just shifted half a cheek to the inside

This video is very realistic for the vast majority of riders on most roads, most sporty type bikes at moderate to fairly quick speeds. Better to concentrate on being smooth than moving around unnecessarily and upsetting the bike...written by an old fart who's been riding 42 years.....if you take corners very quickly you will need to move weight to the inside, but there's always exceptions 👍

Wouldn’t the amount of movement needed also depend on rider weight. A very light rider would need to move inside more than a heavier rider for the same speed?

Are you weighting the outside peg to plant the inside rear tyre edge doing this as well or is that of no concern?

It looks like you were riding gentle bends with the odd curve. Not really a road requiring hanging off unless you were 39mph faster. When you move your butt to the inside pre turn your shoulders are still central to the bars and your body isnt inline with the bike frame anymore causing imbalance. When you look where you want to go in bends it automatically positions your upper body in the right direction. Using the heel to the outside doesn't matter unless you are using pressure to help steer the bike. I'm not getting into the hanging off part. Dont forget fun when you ride. All work and no play.....

@motojitsu General safety question, how do you stop a death wobble?

Yo comments are back :) Anyway, FYI your tail light is Dim AF...could hardly see it from the guy tailing you. (Could just be the video too). Might want a brake light flasher and brighter bulbs to make it more visible.