The numbers can be explained by the fact that the Iron Warriors nabbed the gene-seed stores from Hydra Cordatus for Abbie and in exchange their Warsmith got the long coveted promotion to a Daemon Prince.( "Storm of Iron" novel, most of character would later appear in HH novels.)

Northern, I haven't always agreed with your lore suggestions but this absolutely nails it. Abaddon needs to be more than a moustache twirling villain, giving him a tangible motivation with dramatic irony like this is exactly what is needed

not gonna lie i like this chaos more , gives them more depth i always thought it was stupid that there was pretty much no nonimperium humans that avoided chaos

I have to say for the first time I agree with 97% of the rewrite. I'd only change details. 1. Abbadons Imperium is not called Novum Imperium I'd called it "Imperium Treus", the 3rd Empire, Why? - it's an outright In setting mockery of Gulliman as a traitor, for his imperium Secundus, it's abbadon spitting in his face - it's dramatic irony IRL, Russia calls itself the 3rd Rome. It's a nonsensical claim, they have nothing to do with rome 2. His chaos Empire only controlls the area around Half the Eye of terror and a bit further out, you can't have the imperium loosing compeltelly. 3. Abbadon can't be the one who promises safety and order, that goes against the heart of chaos. Edit: wait nevermind, him making an ordered empire using the power of chaos does show well how he has his stuff together and is his own man I think the imperium has become too nice in lore. Which makes chaos seem silly. If the imperium allows polygamy, lgbt rights, neopronouns and sex outside of marriage why are people joining chaos cults? Of course people would break rules, but the imperium needs to be more fascist and more unreasonable. We need scenes of ministorum workers getting executed because they wrote Emperor with a small 'e' not a big 'E'. The Imperium originally was order and orthodoxy taken to far while chaos was freedom and excess taken too far.

Great video North. Your version of the Black Legion and Abbadon is awesome, and really flesh out their story and place in 40K. What a great way to extend the timeline as well.

Some great ideas there, love the Legion Empire idea, thats great. "You'll just do some blood orgies on the weekends" had me roaring mate, brilliant stuff.

I think these ideas are incredible! What I’ve wanted for the Black Legion for a long time is a sense of development in their conquest of the imperium. Often times Warhammer lore can paint a picture like massive wars break out, massive damage inflicted and all for things to go right back to the way they were before. Instead, with your idea there would be development and even identifiable political and logistical differences between Chaos and the Imperium which the lore desperately needs. Great work North!

I did not see the MGS reference coming. That is one of the best stories ever told.

Rogal Dorn patient and methodical as he has spent the last 10,000 years setting up Abbadon to avenge Sigismund's death to make Abbadon AbbaDEAD.

you could even explain the old lore by saying the imperium called them black crusades 1-13 but as far as abby was concerned he hadn't even started it and you could even give him a moment of satisfaction of how weak the imperium is to think his preparatory assaults were the real deal due to how overwhelming they were.

You could say that the custodes also had a toxic very close relationship with the emperor like when was not giving orders to them during Horus heresy they went into a sort of sad immobilised depression state and after the heresy they were completely screwed mentally and it took 10,000 years also return of Guilliman that made them fight but still they are sort of depressed

it would be more interesting if the chaos legions comparative strength were always in flux from fighting everyone including each other (and yea I'm rooting for Huron in your scenario). Also Abbadon died, he's actually Omegon, and he's in cahoots with Guilliman (Alpharius), they chose to keep the war going instead of picking a side like the cabal wanted, this way humanity is a larger force overall, even if they are also fighting each other, the black crusades are really just war games taken to the next level

GW needs to remember that people have devoted their hobby time and money towards these "evil" factions and invest some brainpower into their plots. They don't just exist to give the majority a villain to fight. The Chaos players I've met have been some of the most invested or all the hobbyists, so when they make dumb moves for Abaddon and the rest, it hurts the really hard-core fans the most.

It would be cool to see as the black legion empire slowly slips back into the same traps thr imperium did too! Like, "ok SOME beurocracy is ok" and the black legion empire slowly becomes more and more muddled down like the Imperium

This is far and away my favorite of the alternate lores.

Black Legion Talon of Horus was my introduction into warhammer 4 years ago and I've now spent over $30,000 in the hobbie own a game room dedicated to the hobbie its a Art studio/ Gameroom I own several armies . 165 Audible novels all 40k & HH They have the alliance of Every Chaos faction Making Daemon Primarchs Bow b4 Abaddon either by force or By Acknowledgment.

"Very well human, one question I will allow. In these last seconds" "w..... why? F.. F... Or all this time? 10 thousands years..... Why?" The shadowed face blinked once. The first motion shown by a cold death mask "At first? Pride. And honour. Later vengeance and hatred And now? After ten millenia? Maybe we simply do not know how to stop"

Abaddon is a big bad, and it's often mistaken for plot armor. I find it hypocritical people who want to say Abby's plot armor is ridiculous when he's shown to be a freak of a marine. He was in the siege straight STROKING Terra's lines, buried alive, and brought back only to demand being put back in the fight. He is a warrior. I love that he loses, and I love that he gets back up again. The crusades were 'suppose' to be taking piece by piece of the Imperium because it is so massive, so it actually does make sense. Also..if one is going to say 'oh he lost to an old lady and the saint' but..he's suppose to have plot armor? lol. Anyway, talk about Sigismund. I'm going to ruffle some jimmies, but that character has the most absurd plot armor I have ever read. He never loses? He makes Kharn doubt himself? That's laughable. When Abby puts Sigismund down, Abby is fully capable of taking a sword in the chest. He is. He is a giant warrior of an astartes with chaos juice. The fact that Sigismund never loses 'because he is Sigismund' is the definition of plot armor. I enjoyed this video, especially how you always give your solution to the issue it's a nice breath of fresh air, I just wish people would give that energy to Sigismund I suppose. lol Happy Holidays North

Abe is Captain chaos while Khârn, Ahriman, Typhus, Lucy, and Huron are the Chaosteers.

Yup, this would be an actually good chaos empire, great ideas there!

12:51 yeah they’re pretty much the Underpants gnomes from Southpark. “Step one, Overthrow the ‘false emperor’” “Step two…” “Step three, profit!”

I have disagreed with some of your other lore stuff, either in part or almost in full, but here, I agreed with almost everything. Pretty much the only part was the Black Crusade portion and it's not really a disagreement, but an alternate. Have more smaller warlords than Abaddon take the reigns into Imperial space, like it's supposed to be, but when Abaddon takes control and musters his entire force, it sends shockwaves through the galaxy, leading into the events of the 13th Black Crusade

In the siege of Terra books it is canon that my lovely Iron Warriors left Terra first.

3:21 Maybe the Thousand Sons or the Space Wolves are in that boat too 11:33 I don't mind it that much as it fits their theme of Mourning. Like rather than deal with their issues and become something new, they are out for revenge and to prove to a fallen father that they can do it. Like its the same question of Horus if you kill the Emperor and become the Emperor what then? In universe i don't think the characters will have thought about that its purely when we win happily ever after thought process. If they won they'd just go back to tearing each other apart. They have no greater goal than revenge. Then there's the fact they are space marines genetically modified childeren built to kill and die eteranally for a boss to tell them what to do. They have no real hopes and dreams outside of that as thats what they were made to do. Its why they are all so aimless and despondent in the first Black Legion book before they find Abbadon 12:19 Thats the flaw of Warhammer never orignally being designed for the Narrative. It being a unvirse where its two minutes to midnight. Where the Imperium has been stagnated and decaying for ten thousand years, with little to no change or motivation other than stave off everything trying to kill us and hold onto power. Then the Chaos wanting that power. Really protagonist and antagonist don't land here. As they are to many factions and characters all with wildly different motivations. 40k would need to be stripped so far back to have an antagonist and protagonist. Due to the nature of factions and sub factions, then characters within factions. 15:07 Nothing dumber than when Abbadon one shots Horus reborn, such and anime moment. Just one hand gravs world breaker snaps it, then one taps **THE PERFECT CLONE OF HORUS IN FULL LIGHTLY DAMAGED ARMOUR** 15:45 The Fall of Cadia should of just been a pure Chaos win

The concept of motive is why I sort of like Archaon more than Abaddon. We KNOW Archaon wants to destroy everything. Why? Because it's the ultimate middle finger to the chaos gods. And he wants to use their power to do it.

Yeah your lore is great. Might start forming a lot of people's head canon.

You would think that the chaos forces, with a combination of The Warp's "time travel" effects, and access to the Dark Mechanicm, would have greater access to Heresy era equipment, or at least Chaosey Heresy era equipment, than the Imperium

From the way he's described, Abbadon sounds like skeletor

So many of your rants have been pretty spot on.

I actually love these ideas so much, I kinda wanna start a black Legion force instead of an Iron Warriors force.

Been a fan of the channel for more than a year now and you mentioning fallout new Vegas further solidified my love for your content. Keep up the amazing work!!!

Great Video my man - you've actually given Abaddon & the black legion a moral imperativeI(I think that's the phrse i'm looking for) and offers far more depth than what is being provided right now by GW.

I do enjoy my Snidely Whiplash legion but you can never go wrong with a Big Boss animus.

I think the world bearers are the most attached to their primarch, in a quasi brainwshed kinda way. Lorgar turned to the chaos gods after getting schooled by the emperor who had god status for him. Lorgar doing a 360 after a traumatic experience like that (to be short) I can buy it but all of his legion just following blindly, without resistance, is verry strange and too simple. It's probably just unfortunate writing at the end of the day. The writers being stuk in a corner like you can't have a purging moment for the world bearers at the end of the pilgrimage without spoiling the impact of Istvan... A shame, The world bearers are really underrated in my opinion. They are the truly devoted space marines of chaos, the true believers. They should be the dominant CSM force and a opposing force to abbadon in the eye. With the rift now, you could make Lorgar coming back in the game and confronting Abaddon, make him struggle. That would fit nicely with a chaos "civil war" (i know, for the chaos marines it's basically the normal but you get what I mean) in the dark imperium keeping chaos busy while the imperium and the two primarchs doing their own shit. This could be a nice new "balance of power". But with vashtor and the arks of omen stuffs, it's all going to god knows what direction so...

I see you made abaddon like sauron during the second age

I love all of this! This would make me collect black Legion.

Your version of the Black Legion are legit Gigachads.

I love the Ideas for the Black legion and Abby going after Blackheart.. I would also think he my go after Morty or Morty would go after abby next.. Was Morty's nature for revenge and his justice was robbed by his father.

Personally I find the Black Legion to be weakest CSM faction lore-wise, Abbadon's mediocrity as a character brings them down far too much for me. I do think that the Black Legion as an empire-building faction--like what you're suggesting--is something GW is already moving towards, so that could help rehabilitate them considerably.

Black legion has always been in my opinion less cool red corsairs

i’m like it. i think my blue issue is that Abaddon’s empire seems too good. if it was clearly noted that there were still issues from the other traitor legions and if he gained more planets it would get too much for him to handle i that would be better. like he should not do a better job than what the imperium is doing if he actually gets his way but he and others think he can.

Sons of horus were the bad guys of Horus heresy In 40k Word Bearers should be new poster boys of the bad guys They have clear motivation, are especially hateful to blue poster boyz Red vs blue basically Also they believe in chaos which makes them perfect poster boys for Chaos

I always thought the Black Legion's overall objective was to finish the 'long war' and take the galaxy back from the loyalists who they perceive as ruling over the empire they built. Once the loyalists and xenos have been removed they will establish and rule over their own dark empire, masters of the warp and reality with Abaddon as the master of chaos and mankind. Obviously its likely they will all turn on each other etc if they ever won the long war but thats atleast how they perceive it. (in my opinion) I also disagree with you on how they interact with the gods. I think abaddon and the BL have a utilitarian attitude towards them. Whatever grants them power and influence at whatever cost with one exception. You must remain loyal to Abaddon and the BL first, and any god second. In short, they work with the gods not for them. But they aren't anti chaos gods like night lords or iron warriors. Either way, great video as always but I disagree a lot with you lol but... I do like some of your ideas especially the one about the protecting the trading route etc, very good idea. merry christmas North!

Honestly abbadon getting beaten up by the saint was soo bull crap

16:13 Yeah I super don’t get the whole Cadia fixation. Like sometimes if you are in warp you can be attacked and other times not it just depends on who writes it. But I figure it could just be like, no matter how many defenses they just put the levers down and go full steam ahead and Cadia does fuck and all but shake their fists at them in their rear viewers.

Unrelated to the video, but you said there is no manga you like (except berserk) There is one half-serious one which you might enjoy it's "Her majesty's Swarm" which is about a tyranid/zerg player being reborn as a Hive Queen. It does seem more Starcraft inspired to me than 40k, but considering the first faction she goes to war with is medieval germans who summon angels that does feel a lot like an Imperium of man reference. It's only on like chapter 30 too, so a quick read. On thing I'd say is it a bit satirical so it might not be as entertaining if you did not read any other isekai stories and thus don't know the stuff it's making fun off in places.

Some great ideas there.

My I'm a bit biased but don't word bearers have a pretty tight relationship with lorgar or am I wrong?

I love this. It would turn the most boring traitor legion into the most interesting, for me at least

As always I prefer your version of events as opposed to the crap BL puts out. I like the Black Legion in the actual Black Legion books they're portrayed in, everything beyond that has me scratching my head, it does not make sense. Chaos space marines are an example of something that just baffles me. Part of the lore says that essentially once a CSM dies, THAT'S IT! He is D-E-A-D, his geneseed can't be reused, they have almost no way of maintaining their bloodline, they have no stable way of making new marines! So why is the black Legion in the millions? Why are the traitor legions only growing?! There aren't too many loyalist marines willing to turn traitor, they're pretty rare really. Then there's the fact that the vast majority of the marines portrayed in CSM books are veterans of the long war. They remember fighting at Terra, they remember fighting for the Emperor and the days when their primarchs went to battle with them. What? How is this possible, they've been fighting for 10000 years either against the Imperium or against each other in a place where reality and hell meet to slow time to feel like endless warfare for many. They should be so insanely small, You would think there'd only be about 30000 of them left. There's also the fact that these veterans of the long war should be absolutely on point! These guys have fought space marines, they've fought daemons, they've fought daemon marines and they've been doing this for 10000 years, one of these guys should be worth 5 or 6 regular marines and yet these veterans match up pretty evenly to ultramarines at the best of times, at worse you have a few brave hero's killing them by the score. It just does not make sense! I also have always liked the idea of the traitor legions pursuing their original goal at heart; to have a slice of the Imperium and being honest, that sounds fair. These were children taken by the Emperor, juiced up on drugs and hormones, given brutal surgeries to put more organs in their bodies to make them overgrown and then they spend the rest of their lives as warriors. They do not go home, remove their armor, put down their weapons and pick up a plow to settle down with a wife and children. All they know is war, all they have is the brotherhood forged in suffering. They conquered, they liberated, they rightfully should get a say in the running and stewardship of the Imperium, they should be represented on the council of Terra and the Ultramarines have shown with Ultramar that this is in fact possible. So I would like to see the galactic map of the Imperium shift, even with the Imperial marines, where each legion or bloodline has control of a certain sector of the Imperium. They guard it, they administrate it, they sort out problems, deal with piracy, recruit, draw weapons, armor, munitions, mortal soldiery if needed, they make appeals to forge worlds with titan legions etc. it is theirs and I can honestly say, being ruled by the astartes even by traitor marines wouldn't be too bad. They are largely simple being that exist to carry out a duty and largely lack in ambition and the ambition they do have is in their own lanes. They don't host lavished parties with concubines and excessive food like most planetary governors (except the EC), they are content living in a bare cell, receiving the bare minimum food to maintain bodily function. The downsides the traitors have are if you aren't already a chaos held planet, but if you are already their rulership would probably be better than being ruled by a regular human or daemon. Back to the main point, I think it would be significantly better of a setting if lines stabilized and we saw things like "the death lords realm" or "the midnight kingdom" or "the monarchy-republic of the black legion". It would give the CSM a way to grow in size and be more of a threat than ramshackle pirates

What music is being played at 5:10?

So, they are like the Judean People's Front from Life of Brian, once they succeed in their aim, that's it 🤔

No, they're unredeemable in my eyes because some fan girls had to get pissy and spend an hour going on about how they're better than the other legions I like and that those legions are a mix of words that all are synonyms of hot garbage, a cautionary tail of how Warhammer stans can ruin anything just by demanding you like the same thing they like for the same reasons at the same time

north, whats your opinion on the red corsairs? i personally believe they should be seen as the main threat to the imperium

YOOOOOOOO IVE BEEN SAYING THEY SHOULD HAVE ABBADON AND HURON THROW DOWN AS WELL only i think huron should win…. Which would kiiiiiiinda make sense both because of the character of the two as the gods would def prefer a huron to work with plus huron is technically the original big bad out of the two….

Naaah, this made me interested in the black legion, unlike the generic sludge GW made.

Huron blackheart for the win

The Bible. Who is the protagonist and antagonist and what do they want?

PEACE! THROUGH TYRANNY! ✊✊

You've went too far yes. The HH result is horus won was chaos ending up destroying the imperium as the legions just went nuts on the inhabitants of conquered worlds. Whether you say Abaddon refuses the gods or is an amazing leader, the fact is chaos has it's hooks within all the legions and those who think they are the masters of it always turn out to be the slaves. If Abaddon had an empire, it'd be one of terror for the inhabitants. Part of the legions turning was because they felt they were superior, why should they answer to the baseline humans, this is shown in their actions afterwards lording themselves over the slaves, the humans are expendable. They want to rule, but it would not be under one leader as power bases broke away and warred upon each other. In the end, Abaddon would see he had, like his genefather, been the puppet all along and lord of nothing but ashes. With the current destroy the hated institution they seen as betraying them in the great crusade, at least it's believable. Destroy the system, show the Imperium how weak and corrupt it is (again, the irony) and let it rot while wading through the population. Rewriting the previous crusades was a positive shift, even if now it's seen as a joke. One thing about Abaddon was ego. We saw it again and again, he would not skulk and have a grand reveal after his minions had been sent out. His foray to claim items of power, simply raze sectors before it being shown that the imperiums callous regard for human life simply overwhelms those with limited numbers is a decent idea. Using the Ezkarion better though I do agree with. Some characters from there having the spotlight would be a positive step even if their story is set before the current point in the timeline. Showing failure through the traitors own greed, goals conflicting with others and so on as reason things falter is much better a path to go with, showing the nature of chaos.

*_"Get In The Sea.......Black Legion-ese."_* * (* Black Legion 2.022K sucks.....because WH40K 2022..... *_Sucks.)_*

As strongly as I disagreed on an earlier lore rant video, oh how strongly do I agree this time. I honestly have no idea who is making these calls. Do BL writers have enough freedom themselves to change lore? Is it all dumbed doen by some approval committee? Why is this so hard for GW?

Failbaddon leader of the fail army.

Nahh, no, your making them look too reasonable. I know the point theres no good guys but in comparison youre making the. "Good guys"