that doesnt negate the law

So then do you blame the housing market, or employers for not paying employees a working wage that follows the market? I blame businesses, industries for not paying what people are worth. I don't blame landlords or housing providers for following the market, I blame a system that keeps fair wages low.

They EXPLICITLY say that they are not talking about people sleeping in their cars on the public street. No working homelessness person is living in a tent on the sidewalk

As a social worker i can tell you, objectively, that this take is both wrong and dangerously stupid ​@theperson3693

​@@theperson3693, GROW. UP.

Very true

listening to some of these judges ask questions seriously made me tear up there are so many negative stereotypes towards homeless people it is heartbreaking this city should show more empathy just so cruel

Come visit Seattle

On-the-job injury led to mine. Too old and dumb to come up with 10k and 2k/ month steady income, with references. Only so many dollars out there , and the rich and aliens have it tied up.

Sadly even when we do put money towards it, it’s not enough. Because money goes to the wrong things.

Money given to the homeless will not stop homelessness. Money used to help those who want to be helped to rehabilitate their addictions, provide temporary health care for the those who are able and want to regain their health, permanent health care for those who cannot regain their health, education to help illiteracy and to help people become better prepared for good jobs, self-esteem programs to encourage them to be responsible and self-sufficient, mental health programs design to deal with their crippling mental issues and other things that will prepare them to be a productive members of the human race. As long as lust for wealth and power is the motivating factor in the political arena, the taxpayers' money will always be misappropriated. They will use legislation to help big business that will in turn kick back money to enrich them. They will send taxpayer dollars to other countries using them to finance unethical dealings with that country's politicians and then have launder money sent back to themselves in various criminal ways, like charity foundations. This wicked world's system is well established and won't be disassembled by human means. The devil runs the game down here on earth, brother, but not for much longer. Jesus is coming to claim all that belongs to Him, including His people and His planet.

It's for population shift to retain political power, by reassigning homeless prisoners to wards and districts

@@lowlightevangelist9431 How is reassigning the nonproductive, homeless people to other places going to increase political power, when the majority of them are made practical zombies by their addiction to the drugs and alcohol they use? And whose political power will it increase, since the Republicans and Democrats have the same political agenda?

We do both. Stop it.

Forcing? Come on! I watch people start with nothing and work their way up everyday. As Milton Friedman said, there is no free lunch. We have the freedom to work. You really believe that people shouldn't have to work to survive? Are sandwiches going to fall from heaven? The history of the worlds is that you reap what you sow.

It's a discrimination too

It's not the court's job to look at the big picture, quite the opposite. The legislature is the one for that.

Yep the Republican Party wants to imprison the homeless

her name is Theane Evengalis that lawyer she's full of it

The entire issue is a ruze - having 100k homeless in LA should tell you that redirecting people on how or where to sleep is a diversion of a fundamental economic problem with the tax policies in the US

@bleacherz7503 it's not just in LA, it is all over the US terrible

@@ML-te6qv what other less know cities is it showing up?

The evil is not the policies at issue , the evil are the policies that took a 1959s home costing 20k that sells today for 2M, the same home !

Shill accounts out in full force I see lm😂

How so? Were the times before less so?

Yup

​@pancaked7777777 because the Gospel of Je'sus has been preached worldwide.

That is one of the arguments of the petitioners

Agreed! The community of Grants Pass has vocalized this many times. There are families that live out of their cars. We need somewhere safe that they can park and sleep, at the very least. ❤

that is so ignorant, Grants Pass city is probably wealthy they don't want to deal with it, just disgusting

That's the biggest lie you ever bought.

You heard the man, folks. Mass incarceration doesn’t exist because he said so.

Seems weird to us layman, but the doctors claim an addiction is a life long battle. They have more education than I do. They say it is an addictive personality. People like us don’t have that so that’s probably why we don’t understand it or agree with it.

The point of the questioning is to pull up distinctions in the law and where the lines are and how to apply those legal concepts. It’s not as though anyone in the court thinks they are the same.

​@@ConstitutionalAmerican I've got an addictive personality. It's absolutely true that it's a lifelong battle. I cannot drink any alcohol. I can't take painkillers. I can't even drink tea. Just like Johnny Cash after he beat his speed addiction. No substances. Only anesthetistics in case of surgery, and even then they are selective. But yeah the doctors are right. After I was in the Army I got a job as a pharmacology researcher because I studied chemistry in college. I did all this research on how drugs actually. And how they impact the body. Yep, addiction is lifelong. It's a tough gig but man I served 13 months in Pesh River Valley taking fire from the Korengalis, I went a year with no sleep bro, I did that when I was younger but this addiction thing, it's tough but when you compare it to a tour in Afghanistan calling in air and artillery on really steep cliffs, out there it's terrain like, I dunno, Bruce Canyon but with more trees, more cliffs, steeper mountains, and people who wanna shoot you everywhere, lol.

​@@ConstitutionalAmerican, so sleeping is less necessary than drugs? Have you EVER had an original though? Jfc

They have 151 billion minimum per year for illegal aliens but no money to house Americans.

But a majority percentage are.

You are arguing for the exception. the Judiciary operates in the reality we are probable to face, not the one it is possible to face 1 out of 20 occasions.

We already have plenty of shelter space, at least we do in my city and people still choose to live on the streets because they don’t want help, they want to commit crimes freely

Stop Greedflation! Corporations have had record profits for the last 10+ years, they should pay their workers a livable wage, better benefits!

Get rid of urban growth boundaries and regulations. At one time we built affordable housing, then regulations stepped in and required we build houses in ways that last forever, the regulations aren't wrong as far as long lasting and safe, the same way they've passed regulations on cars,, both have resulted in the same aspect, they have made them unaffordable, ask someone who's ever lived in a house built in the 40's and 50's, it wasn't a dream home and yes there was constant maintenance, but at least it was affordable to start a life and you could work your way to a better home, just like cars, if you were able to buy a car that was built like they were 50 years ago, yes it wouldn't be like a new $70,000 pick up, but it would be more like a more reliable $7,000 pick up, and you would at least have one. Point is, when they pass regulations and urban growth boundaries, they limit affordability, they put an imfassis on protecting us from ourselves and ignore the fact that it will make things unaffordable for those that are struggling the most.

Mental illness; drug and alcohol problems; etc are not addressed. Sometimes money alone does not help.

They should have stopped sending American jobs over seas, so people could make a decent wage and afford a home instead of outsourcing them to countries whose labor market could be exploited to make historic sized profits for corporations and their shareholders.

“Oh we’re not criminalizing homelessness, we’re just criminalizing all of the factors and behaviors of homeless people. But by the letter we’re not singling out that status.” Yeah… this is very interesting. And sad. The lawyer almost said the clear truth when she said the camps have health impacts, aren’t humanly compassionate, and it has “other downstream impacts” - i.e. this is ugly and we don’t want our city to look like a trash heap because it makes us uncomfortable. If she would have just said that last part as she almost did, that’d be so much more interesting.

So you support cities closing their parks and reverting them back over to private property to be developed into a few homes? Because ultimately that is what happens if homeless people can just set up camp in these places.

Feel good policies are advocating for a free for all. I get 2 pit bulls, a tent, move into your local city park, zero consequences. That's what is happening, people choosing to bother everyone else with their stolen shopping carts, drug use, trash and dogs . Because they do not want help. This madness has to stop. It's an environmental and public health crisis.

This case doesn't even go that far. It criminalizes repeated sleeping with a blanket outside, tent or no tent.

Thank you for this context. For those reading, keep in mind that that's a 30 minute drive by car, and the public bus is a joke so that's not an option. And all the land between the cities is privately owned, so it would be incredibly dangerous to camp outside city limits. Again ... rural Oregon. Landowners wouldn't be afraid to shoot a trespasser

It’s $7.25.

@Kenyon712 oh my God you're right, that's shameful

Lest we also forget how Purdue Pharma ramped up addiction/deaths to begin with. I'm not implying all are addicts by any means. Some are entire homeless families and those with mental illness as well. There are even those with untreated mental illness because the Pharma Companies have ironically ALSO gouged them for Rx costs whereby preventing them to maintain their mental wellness.

@@Kenyon712where @ ?

@@Probonoman Texas and most red states.

The law should be, if you are sleeping and anyone disturbs you, they get fined. They need to wait until you are awake to fine you. It’s called respect. Entitled individuals are lacking that quality.

I think that what you say is true - there isn’t a one size fits all solution. It feels like this law is pushing at the problem from the end, rather than from the beginning. And may be a result of frustration that the government there hasn’t addressed the front end of the problem. If it were my neighborhood, I am sure that I wouldn’t want homeless people setting up camps in the public spaces that my tax dollars pay for, and that I want to use myself, but it doesn’t seem a good solution to arrest people instead.

Your heart in in the right place but your approach is not - we can still solve this problem by ending the housing ownership hoarding problem, housing ownership by non US citizens, making it tax inefficient to own and rent non occupied homes, making it tax inefficient to profit off of home flipping. The idea that we have created a system that had late night commercials 40 years ago teaching people how to make money in real estate is all you need know - half the country is 3 months from homelessness- there in is the problem

@@bleacherz7503 I don’t agree with that approach at all. The true issue is what you said in your last sentence - how many people are just three months from being homeless. If that is true, it is the economy promoted by this terrible administration that has gotten us in this position. The answer isn’t to control and stifle people that are successful, it is to have an economy that makes that more doable for more people.

The Homeless System Action Plan - Medford, Oregon. Low barrier solutions. Works and transitions the homeless to jobs. Take some time to review it and realize the logic as a solution.

Three negatives in one sentence, I don't know what you're trying to say.

@@warnegoodman I imagine the founders thought sleeping peacably in public by yourself was obviously protected activity..

@@falseprophet1024 thanks

It is illegal to be at beaches and parks at night already on state owned land nationwide.

@@ShaneHackworth-em1qq And highway rest areas.

Jobs that pay a living wage would help too. Kind of like what was outsourced to third world countries.

@@markpartin8403 agree💯!! Yes so much can be done to help, but most people in power are paid by the rich, too scared to do right.....4 day work, work from home, jobs starting at $30 an hour, laws to brake monopoly or duopoly (think Tyson foods/meat), making access to healthy food, medical, housing and even transportation, especially for the poorest, we could all be in such a great world! Most these problems given to us by the rich would stop! I agree 💯! Qujanarrusauaq!! Thank you very much!!

Without conditions?

@@davidd7301 yes, even if it's just a room with a mini fridge and microwave, I believe housing should be a right, just like we breathe air, need to eat and drink. That's what a right is isn't it? The rich and big corporations get to not have any conditions, just steal from everyone, make the poor ever poorer and then complain when they see a poor person when they leave there fancy palius for another fancy palius, just like kings and queens who say because they are kings and queens they should always be so and to hell with there suffering subjects. This is just my opinion. I believe kids should have housing,clean food, clean water, free education.... and those who don't have kids shouldn't be punished, the poor, disabled and elderly are human too, just like me and you. If you was in the position of some of these people I'd want you to have a room, food, water, the same as I want for them. There are people who are in the same position as the people we are talking about who will reject even this help, but I tell you they are a small minority.

How bout fk no

there are many negative stereotypes it's terrible

Not everyone who is a drug addict is homeless. Not every panhandler is homeless and not every homeless person is a panhandler. Following the spirit of the law is much better than following the letter of the law.

My dad sold dope mostly to nurses lawyers and doctors and judges 😂

And NOT every drug addict is homeless. What is exactly your point?

That seems like a poor way to view the public bathrooms, tho, because the lack of public bathrooms invites the public to relieve themselves outside...which causes clear public safety issues. It's like a city saying they're no longer filling potholes because it costs too much, or having parks because it costs too much....

@@mangos2888 I see those things disappearing as well due to city mismanagement, corruption and/ or resident population decline. I completely understand property owners frustration but I would always have to get to understand the people, their situation and consider humane solutions first. I've done it before. This reminds me of "World's Worst Neighbors" compilations on KZfaq. Rather than coming to an understanding and peaceful resolution they go from 0 to 60 in a minute...all over someone's dog crapping on their lawn. Compassion, tact, effort and patience

Ask yourself what would God say to do . Find these people jobs, they can't apply for a job without address and cleanliness ,some just need a chance, some city's just supply them with drugs,do you really think this is the answer? Some are homeless and some are just panhandling. Some need a chance and some don't want a job. You can't fine a person if they have no job.

That's crazy. The major want a job . Second God would not punish Noone sleeping on his earth. He gave the earth to all creatures poor as well as rich. The rich does not own

@@jessyhavron2548 You could also ask, what would a Stoic or Humanist do as well. The answer would be very similar if not the same.

It would criminalized a status, could go as far as poor people being criminalized for being poor.

Today it's not a crime to be poor.

Want to know something more awful. There is 16 million homes vacant and 653,000 homless its all by design

They are statistically safer than the streets

Yes, but neither is biking. I've been hit 4 times in last 4 years. Automobiles hit harder than people. I have a home with Je'sus, just a little pain to pay, then by grace I'll be swept away to glory in eternal life.

Want to know something more awful. There is 16 million homes vacant and 653,000 homless its all by design

it said, that city doesn't have a shelter only gospel one with 100 beds that you're talking about

@@ML-te6qv Exactly so the number of available shelter spaces falls below the number of people in need of a place to sleep. I'm confused as to the point you're making. I just saying that even if they had an excess of spaces in that shelter it's requirements still creates the situation that people would be unhoused due to their religious freedoms being infringed upon. I believe that this was even an argument that was made after I made my comment while listening to the video.

@user-ey9gf3hd7e it's still not enough that's what I was trying to point out not sure how many are homeless in Grants Pass city, plus families with children so sad, but I agree it's not right when it comes to the religion part as well not everyone is Christian

@@ML-te6qv I think they said in the arguments some in the neighborhood of 600 homeless in that community and most of them are from Grants Pass. It's a shame and it's for the city to come up with a solution other than being punitive for sleeping.

@user-ey9gf3hd7e do you think the city will win? I honestly feel as they just don't want to deal with it who would want to live there, they also sound racist 😕

Even living in a mobile environment is tough - you need an address to "register" vehicle and a place to be able to park without being harrassed.

Blame our greatest "ally" for that. It's White Genocide, the US was created as a White ethnostate. Learn some history.

We are not broke in the financial sense. We are broke in the sense of greed! Big corporations have had record profits for years and wages haven’t kept up!

do you know who brought this case ​@@debmonfam

@@debmonfam Yeah we aren't nearly $30 trillion dollars into debt to the jewish rothschild family, right.

@@debmonfam no were broke we will never pay back the national debt there is no gold standard our currency is worthless

So, you blame landlords for following the market, and not industries for failing to pay a fair wage that follows the market and inflation? Teachers make a national average of $68,000+/-, whose fault is it. Who do we blame for teachers not making enough? Landlords? or do you blame the government? A waitress who lives in an area managed by the National Restaurant Association (Look them up) makes $0 an hour if she makes a certain amount in tips. Essentially keeping waitresses making the national minimum wage of $7.25 without tips. They are the other NRA and backed by the government to keep waitress's poor. Who do you blame? The Landlord? I think your idea of "greed" is being pointed towards the wrong people. Those who are greedy are those who keep people's wages low, so that they can profit more off the backs of the working class.

@@apllu17 the business owners and government are to blame. Landlords and the government are to blame for the greedy extortion called rent.

@@apllu17 if a waitress is not getting a paycheck only getting tips then they are a fool and should be telling the owner of the restaurant to GFT and wait their tables themselves.

@@apllu17 most landlords are slumlords

@@apllu17 and don't play the maintenance card either, whether someone is living in the property or not it's the landlords responsibility to keep it up and maintained so not a legitimate excuse to extort people out of more money. Half the buildings in America are empty because no one can afford to rent them and they are run down so it's not a tenants responsibility to maintain your property that's the landlords responsibility.

Look up the context. The state wants to criminalize homeless encampments. The homeless people are defending themselves saying that it is cruel and unusual punishment.

​@Yilver499 this case was brought in 2018, I'm trying to find out who is this person/ people who brought it anyone know

@@Yilver499 Or one could listen to the arguments to understand the ALL the nuances and implications. It's not about "encampments." It's about any person sleeping outside in Grant's Pass (and everywhere).

So a homeless person trying to survive is a crime? They are not technically camping. They are surviving. The term camping alludes to a vacation. Homeless people aren’t vacationing.

@@tonyapeden3921they can go somewhere they can afford.

Free housing is not easy. It's a myth really. Who will pay the upkeep? When the roof needs to be changed, who'll pay to repair it? Will free housing mean free from responsibility of assuring it's livable? Nothing is EVER Free. Taxes will be established to allow others to live FREE. It won't make sense to create a livable wage... Free housing will tell someone to simply not work. Why work if everything, including housing, healthcare, food is donated? PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OUT THE WINDOW, RIGHT?

whoever brought this case is absolutely evil!! disgusting

@@ML-te6qv What no one is talking about is, this has nothing to do with “sleeping” at all. They are just trying to find any leverage to make them go away. They are too weak and stupid to find a solution, so they use punishment for compliance to standards that can’t be met. And somehow feel justified. Like a very bad parent would do to their children. If you look at people as solutions rather than problems, you will gain the favor of more people and more votes. As well as less compliance issues. You take care of them, they will take care of you. That’s how local governments keep their respect from the citizens and gets re-elected. Not fining for sleeping.

One person does not represent an entire community. ❤

I’m sure the folks of Grants Pass won’t lose any sleep over anyone not visiting who does not agree with their city’s policies. The beauty of a Constitutional Republic is the right to live and visit states and cities whose policies you agree with.

​@@jennlamaye3018 I mean, she represents those people, so she is speaking on their behalf..

​@falseprophet1024 ridiculous they should be helping those poor people, no empathy now a days shameful

@@ML-te6qv I think making sleeping outside illegal is absurd. My answer to homelessness is you give homeless people an appartment, a therapist, and a job application to get them back on their feet. Im pretty sure this has been done is a number of places, and most people get their life in order relatively quick..

Unfortunately, it is all that the city of Grants Pass has. County Commissioners shot down the city’s attempt to get state funding for a low barrier shelter. It’s ridiculous, and we need to do better. That said, the court’s injunction magnified the problem immensely in the last five years. Add in: COVID, unrealistic housing costs, legalized drugs, unemployment, increase in mental illness… and you get the mess we are in today. That being said, I still have hope for our little town. I love it here. It’s an amazing community, and I want to see better resources to support those that need it here.

@@jennlamaye3018 Yeah, this is a nationwide problem. Wage stagnation, unaffordable housing, lack of universal healthcare, so many problems compounding together.

​@@jennlamaye3018, Oregon is backwards, literally no one cares

The problems are: •Who maintains order? A police officer on duty at all times = 3 full time positions. Less than full-time policing means drug sales, prostitution, and potential assaults. And given acknowledged drug use and resulting potential violence, who will keep the bathrooms and showers clean? •What happens when more people want to camp than there is space for? Doesn't this solution then unfairly penalize those who must be turned away?

Yeah really sick and tired of them acting like they want to fix it! But in reality they use it as a tool

@@user-ud1cd7sk1b, we may have to stop funding foreign entanglements across the world for awhile while we prioritize the people in the USA that need help. The first step would be to determine the reason for homelessness. Is it due to physical illness (provide treatment), unexpected layoffs or expenses, mental illness (is it treatable with medication and counseling)?, recent release from incarceration, drug addiction (methadone and rehabilitation are possible but it may require mandatory medically supervised detox and counseling/treatment. Homelessness is caused by a variety of factors and we need to start addressing the root causes so we can provide a safety net and path forward for people to get their lives back.

Under the 8th amendment it says they can't. Cities need yo work on problem to house

Dont use the word camping. It's about sleeping in public with a blanket. That should never be criminalized.

@@Bruss813but it IS camping. The injunction does not allow our city to disallow camping in every park in our city BUT one. So EVERY park is now overrun by tents with people who do not wish to comply with rules within the Gospel Rescue Mission housing.

no, sleeping outside is not camping. i am legit camping as i write this, out in the desert on federal lands, and i'm wide awake. draw a venn diagram, with one circle 'camping' and the other 'sleeping outside'. they only overlap a tiny, tiny bit. they are not the same thing at all. labelling homelessness 'camping' in order to criminalize homelessness is disingenuous and appalling.

@@nonya.biznessI agree with you on that. The homelessness in this city is heartbreaking, and I do what I can to help others. We do have a shelter, but many do not wish to comply with the rules there. We DO need more shelters, lower cost housing, and a safe place for people who live out of their cars. We do not need a free-for-all for staking tents and living in the parks. If you live here, you’d see what I mean. I imagine you do what is needed to take care of the environment you are camping in. We do not see the same here.

It is called "vagrancy" with a neo-progressive gloss of homelessness. These laws came to the New World with the colonists and soon proliferated throughout the British colonies and, later, the United States. In the county jail for "the crime of having nowhere to go. " The issue is mental health. Not housing the folks reject anyway.

Most of them have money to use drugs

​@briand.riggsriggs9617 why so hateful, that's such a negative stereotype ccc be kind please you never know how life can be unpredictable

@@briand.riggsriggs9617 They may not always have money but they good work ethic. They get up everyday & hustle to fund their addictions.

Public property belongs to the tax payers! Many homeless drug addicts do not pay taxes. They’re using our resources that we pay for and give nothing in return.

You cannot be trespassed from most public property, if you are not committing a crime, but you can if you are committing a crime. However, some property paid for with taxpayer dollars is not accessible to the public and you can be legally trespassed from those properties for no reason accept that you can't be there (like the offices of the CIA or FBI for example). They already have vagrancy and loitering laws in every city in the United States, so there are established laws that they can use to trespass you. You can also be trespass from public property if you commit a crime on that property, such as assault or theft, urinating or defecating in public, indecent exposure, public intoxication, disorderly conduct and so on. And the reason that people have a right to be on public property is because they have pay taxes that pay for those public spaces and public services, therefore, they are part owner. Homeless people don't pay taxes. Just saying.

SCOTUS does not enact laws, regulations or go after people.

So, you blame landlords for following the market, and not industries for failing to pay a fair wage that follows the market and inflation? Teachers make a national average of $68,000+/-, whose fault is it. Who do we blame for teachers not making enough? Landlords? or do you blame the government? A waitress who lives in an area managed by the National Restaurant Association (Look them up) makes $0 an hour if she makes a certain amount in tips. Essentially keeping waitresses making the national minimum wage of $7.25 without tips. They are the other NRA and backed by the government to keep waitress's poor. Who do you blame? The Landlord? I think your idea of "greed" is being pointed towards the wrong people. Those who are greedy are those who keep people's wages low, so that they can profit more off the backs of the working class.

​@@apllu17, bot/spam

The shelter is available.

@@jennlamaye3018 some are dangerous, some don't allow men or pets

@@jennlamaye3018 the shelter can only hold people for a short time and it's extremely difficult to get back on your feet once you're homeless. The only solution to the homeless crisis is to regulate inflation laws

@@tomservo5007true. Very true. But camping in the parks may not be much safer at this point.

@@HelmetOfHonorI agree that has a huge part. And truthfully, we (Grants Pass) do not have adequate housing or shelter. It’s too easy to end up with no resources, and that’s not okay. We need to have people in government that focus on solutions. ❤

The problem is the injunction forces the city to allow encampments in our parks. So the public parks are now tent cities and the residents of the city do not feel safe to bring their children to the parks anymore.

​@@jennlamaye3018 You can address that using current laws without criminalizing homelessness in general which is essentially which this law would do. I assume your parks have specified times the public can be present, no? That alone would suffice but there's also laws against drug possession, public intoxication, harassment, disturbing the peace, etc. But your city tried to ban homelessness and now you got an injunction, that's your guys fault. If the problem was addressed properly instead of trying to pass some stupid law maybe your parks wouldn't be full of homeless people 😂

@@ArthurB26agreed that the city did not approach the issues well, and the resources available are limited. But the fallout from the injunction means more people are coming to camp in our parks 24/7. The overturning of the injunction is the only thing that can save our parks from becoming tent cities permanently.

So sick what are country is come to going to put 600000 people in jail JUIST for being poor

What a disaster all the way around. This policy the government is fighting for is so inhumane. You ca. Literally build a small town for all this legal representation. Buy 10 acres and build little sheds with beds for the homeless. The solutions are not that hard.

who is this evil woman, does anyone know

Im not afraid too state the truth. Because none of your citizens contribute too State Taxes, Federal Taxes, Medical taxes, SSI taxes, you have problems because you do not contribute. We should not have too provide you with any of these benefits just because you never paid into the system, but are ineed now having too carry your States burdons because have no recourse to help yourselves.....So if you had State taxes, you would have monies in the State funds too take care of your homelessness citizens.

I use a mailbox for most of my mail. But certain types of financial institutions refuse to send mail or statements there Because of domestic violence I don't want any physical address to be public. I can't register to vote without divulging physical address either. There needs to be a better solution

Now don't be trying to extrapolate unintended consequences if this passes, when no one is willing to discuss (via reverse engineering) how THESE conditions were created in the first place. Lol