T2 CS is good now? / Cheap player buyouts - Snake & Banter 61 ft mantuu

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Күн бұрын

Thorin and Mauisnake are joined by Mateusz "mantuu" Wilczewski to discuss the quality of tier 2 circuit of Counter-strike, Complexity succeeding in playing moneyball, NAVI's lack of a star player, the downfall of zews and cadiaN's reputations following their departures from Team Liquid, controversial tech from zont1x and donk, and more.
mantuu's Twitter: x.com/m4ntuu
Thank you to INTOTHEAM for sponsoring this week's episode! You must use our link to receive 10% discount on anything you purchase on the website: www.intotheam.com/lfn
Last Free Nation Culture channel (featuring "Four Play," the movie review show with Thorin, Richard, and MonteCristo): ‪@LastFreeNationCulture‬
Snake & Banter is a Counter-Strike talk show, hosted by Duncan "Thorin" Shields and Alex "Mauisnake" Ellenberg, themed around each individual selecting a good, bad and ugly topic to discuss.
This video was recorded on June 26th, 2024.
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0:00:00 - Intro
0:08:07 - mantuu's good point (Quality of tier 2 CS)
0:18:51 - Mauisnake's good point (Complexity playing moneyball)
0:26:43 - Thorin's good point (Chet returns to CS)
0:33:22 - mantuu's bad point (NAVI are lacking a star player)
0:46:32 - Mauisnake's bad point (cadiaN and zews's reputations)
0:59:22 - Thorin's bad point (zont1x "dark tech" narratives)
1:06:05 - mantuu's ugly point (How Valve handles the game CS2)
1:20:30 - Mauisnake's ugly point (The donk slide)
1:30:26 - Thorin's ugly point (VP considering electroNic as IGL)
#CS2
#podcast
#Thorin

Пікірлер: 144

@MantuuCS Ай бұрын

Thank you for having me!

@perrohuevo1059 Ай бұрын

mój ulubiony awper

@mckinleyostvig7135 Ай бұрын

You brought some great points and were funny so props

@user-lt9md7mw1m Ай бұрын

Ezra Miller!

@stefanrauski4455 Ай бұрын

You killed it bro!

@fearlessmdog23 Ай бұрын

You had great takes! I enjoyed the podcast

@nameonelast598 Ай бұрын

I'm glad Thorin and the rest of the CS podcasters are getting us through the player break- shoutout TechGirl, Talking Counter, even RL making a comeback!

@jaketsu0487 Ай бұрын

Crazy amount of glazing

@mckinleyostvig7135 Ай бұрын

@@jaketsu0487liking something isn't glazing it's called being a human

@wintc Ай бұрын

@@jaketsu0487 so much glaze they call me Krispy Kreme

@Avaloneer1 Ай бұрын

@@jaketsu0487 you're ill

@thijmenvanderkolk9033 Ай бұрын

@@jaketsu0487 Bro legit thinks hes him rn

@matijet9585 Ай бұрын

If m4ntuu has a million fans, then I am one of them. If m4ntuu has ten fans, then I am one of them. If m4ntuu has only one fan then that is me. If m4ntuu has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against m4ntuu, then I am against the world.

@TopOnTops Ай бұрын

Mantuu is so likeable

@colewarburton3832 Ай бұрын

Yeah this was a good showing from him, definitely much better than the average player on shows

@elijahforrester1599 Ай бұрын

Top 3 podcasts in esports rn; Snake and Banter, Feed the Trolls and Hot Take Point Made - Thorin literally cannot stop with that straight fire boombap hiphop shit

@iArrivall Ай бұрын

Lmfao, Smooya's accent turning slowly into smoothed out AI from being on so many teams is gold.

@anonymous8737 Ай бұрын

He just sounds like a typical German bot

@wintc Ай бұрын

Why is Thorin the best advertising spokesman ever😂

@allmite Ай бұрын

Zont1x literally said it himself that he is intentionally shooting in the body, because it is harder to miss this way…

@LeominsterFC Ай бұрын

So we agree then that it’s a cope to say he’s “doing it on purpose” because by his own admission it’s “easier that way”. Which means if he was able to he would try to HS more, but he knows he’s not so has compromised.

@allmite Ай бұрын

@@LeominsterFC It is a deliberate decision, at least according to Zont1x, you may agree with it or not agree. I for one can definitely see both advantages and disadvantages to this approach. For him and Spirit though it seems to be working out well enough. The purpose of my initial comment was to correct Thorin who appears to think that it was Reddit or/and some fans that came up with this theory just out of nowhere.

@LeominsterFC Ай бұрын

@@allmite I’m not even criticizing him for it, like you said it works for him. But logically shooting HS is more efficient so if he thought he was able to hit them more consistently he would try. It does sound like some hltv cope even if he did say it himself lol.

@allmite Ай бұрын

@@LeominsterFC It is more efficient if you are guaranteed to hit it, which you are not. For the same reason everyone is not just going for 3-pointers in basketball all the time.

@vedser Ай бұрын

@@LeominsterFCwut?? He is doing it on purpose because its easier.

@raiz1337 Ай бұрын

zont1x said he was intentionally aiming at body/legs in spirit vlog

@OskarHowell99 Ай бұрын

Awesome guest! Mantuu know's what's up, and brings some great points.

@RobCooper-Bachatador Ай бұрын

On EliGE's buyout was likely low because Liquid looks after their players, they even allowed Shox to go for free because they didn't want to put him in contract jail.

@trennan8291 Ай бұрын

Yeah possibly since he was going to another NA org too.

@rodrigoaguiar5208 Ай бұрын

In 1.6 people used to bind crouch to the scroll wheel and then peek every angle spamming the wheel, which would famously desync your hitbox from your character model. On top of that the character model would come out of the angle like "bouncing". It was really annoying to play agianst and was generally viewed as a BM thing to do. We called them "scrollers".

@rbhumber89 Ай бұрын

It was done so you could cover ground and only make half the sound.

@rodrigoaguiar5208 Ай бұрын

@@rbhumber89 Yeah but it also messed up your own hitbox so it was harded for enemys to hit you.

@von_freiesleben64 Ай бұрын

in germany we called it the russian duck. was really fun to do it but so annoying to play against lol

@KakashiTaichou Ай бұрын

Mantuuu a surprise but a welcome one at that. I love blasting these during my drive home from work

@Malibuthe6th Ай бұрын

100 minute drive to work?

@MusicJunkie37 Ай бұрын

Content goes vroom vroom

@jimmehnitsaw4476 Ай бұрын

57:00 I love how Thorin just talks about Fnatic as the tier 1 gulag for people he likes, just send everyone from tier 1 who is in a rough spot there so they can make a nice team with blameF.

@centrelink420 Ай бұрын

@6:20 in regards to smooyas accent I think thorin means a ‘telephone voice’ often referred to as a voice without an accent.

@johnnygazer Ай бұрын

Mantuu was great, would love to see him as a return guest in the future

@SERKINDLY Ай бұрын

Love mantuu! Great points and insights! Would love to see you more!

@thenightmancometh93 Ай бұрын

My complete speculation on why zews was kicked was because he tried too hard to get the other guys to buy into cadiaN’s system when they disagreed. If Twistzz and Yekindar came to him and said like “we don’t like this, we’d rather play like this” and zews tells them to listen to the IGL, then yeah you’re going with him bud

@nightfire_CSGO Ай бұрын

I must have missed the smooya utensils lore until this point, first time hearing that and I choked hard on my drink

@Pereplut Ай бұрын

One of the better ones. Goated guest.

@chibifirestorm Ай бұрын

he's not scared to make bold points which is nice, some guests are shit scared to say anything remotely controversial

@15lp15 Ай бұрын

I feel like the donk slide/crouch spam evolved because it´s somehow super easy for less skilled players to hit headshots compared to csgo. When you spam crouch, your head goes up and down and get´s harder to hit. Same goes for the wide fast swings everyone is doing rn. It´s more like a counterplay than an actively picked playstyle.

@mayhem_666_ Ай бұрын

910 is my goat so please get him on

@downnnnnn Ай бұрын

He doesn’t even know 910 English words 😂

@rocketman983 Ай бұрын

yeah i don’t know if any of the mongolz know english, even blitz doesn’t interview much

@Malibuthe6th Ай бұрын

Bring one of the other players as a translator. It will be a two for one.

@user-ni3wz3fz1s Ай бұрын

Let's get it on.

@yosters Ай бұрын

nothing better than waking up to a new snake and banter

@youtubeuser6978 Ай бұрын

About 1:17:30 : For me, it's the other way around actually. I feel like I barely tab out anymore because I flicked so hard that my mouse cursor would just go on the 2nd monitor. Back in CS:GO, that would almost happen every match at least once.

@marrchy2682 Ай бұрын

1:00:00 i think is both, he knows he isnt good enough to hit headshots all the time so he just does the safe play. He even said that in one of the spirit vlogs. He just goes for it because that's good for him.

@vedser Ай бұрын

No one is not good enough to hit headshots all the time. Him choosing to aim lower doesnt necessary mean he is bad aimer. It actually can be a superior mechanic for a lot of players.

@kindls8345 Ай бұрын

@user-nl4cu6pn5s Ай бұрын

Really liked mantuu as a guest

@evolvedHE Ай бұрын

Great episode. The talk about Valve was great - CS2 feels terrible

@retLAWMAD Ай бұрын

So funny how mantuu has to just sit through them just glazing the into the am shirts

@MyFluXx Ай бұрын

They’re promoting a sponsor, how the fuck is that glazing 😭

@LDixonFPS Ай бұрын

1:20:33 This part where they talk about donk movement, this is so true there is way more crouching and strafing which kinda feels more like valorant where you are more focused on not getting hit than trying to aim which does make it ugly to duel people.

@Logains454 Ай бұрын

Mantuu tier 2 scene so good you still repping the BIG clan gaming chair.

@Isitar Ай бұрын

Great vid, again, thx. Concerning Cadian, Zonic should invite him to Falcons, just for training, and pubicly declare that Falcons are glad to have Cadian to inspire them. Comparing to football again, star players just lift teams up with their pressence and skills, and lots happen at training. So, go train at Falcons, get some sun and some good vibes :) In a perfect world, right.

@NicholasEllis-rs3nx Ай бұрын

1.6 crouch-tap around corner was Tier1 CS ftw

@decadent5341 Ай бұрын

Big issue with Valves handling of CS is that they do not invest a cent back into the game they're making stacks of cash on

@rocketman983 Ай бұрын

i know i’m nowhere near as good or clean, but i’ve been donk sliding for years in my games, made me pretty good on the entries

@xavierbaltazar2453 Ай бұрын

56:40 thorin slips from host to natural self and enjoys it 😂

@VelcroEditing Ай бұрын

juicy shows boys juicy shows

@vulpine5449 Ай бұрын

Player breaks are awesome for cs2 content

@cm386464 Ай бұрын

Sponsors let's go boys gg

@randyunderwood8634 Ай бұрын

Thorin was cooking 😂😂😂

@schmeed0000 Ай бұрын

even norbert igl would be better than electronic igl

@CONM0S Ай бұрын

I’m not good at CS, but I prac’d Donk Sliding for an hour I can guarantee at like 8k or less, it fucking shreds.

@aria8928 Ай бұрын

Cs2 just does wierd things with dual monitor in general. I can't stream if I have a second monitor plugged in, or it my framerate (usually well over 500fps) drops to 60 or so over and over.

@raghavbharadwaj8245 Ай бұрын

We need Thorin vs Rischard Lewis on How Valve handles CS2 🤣

@colewarburton3832 Ай бұрын

5 figures for elige is unbelievable, was he really that unwanted?

@thereportoftheweek787 Ай бұрын

It’d be awful to Elige if after 8 years on the team, liquid throw him on the bench with an insane buyout that teams may or may not be willing to pay considering his form at the time. I feel like the low buyout was a show of thanks from liquid.

@colewarburton3832 Ай бұрын

@@thereportoftheweek787 I agree rewarding him for the good years is fine, but hes a top 10 player in the world going for less than 100k. You couldve bought like 10 eliges for one fallen.

@Dropshot75 Ай бұрын

I dont think if you have 70% hs rate its acutally the most efficient way to play. If you are hsing every every pistol or rifle player its great but for some of those duels bodyshots might be the higher % play. I try to go for body shots and sometimes thats my demise, but some duels are also free because of that and doing some damage gives the team a higher % round win. Hitting the perfect balance is difficult and imo zontix does it.

@vedser Ай бұрын

Z0ntix said it it himself in Spirit vlogs that he is on purpose aiming to the lower body.

@Deanbedford1 Ай бұрын

Yes… because he would miss if he tried to one tap them. He isn’t aiming for the head and accidentally hitting 4 body shots.

@vedser Ай бұрын

@@Deanbedford1 thats the point. And thats why thorin, mantuu are absolutely wrong.

@Deanbedford1 Ай бұрын

@@vedser the claim they are making is that he would shoot them in the head if he could you are getting caught up in the ‘on purpose’ part. He is shooting the body on purpose not because he wants to but because he has no choice. He would prefer to kill them faster. If I talk to a less attractive girl it’s because I didn’t think I have a chance with the other one probably not just ‘by choice’

@vedser Ай бұрын

@@Deanbedford1 no they literally said that he is doing this not on purpose which is false. They think that he is trying to hit the head and cant do it but in reality he is not trying, he is aiming to the legs intentionally. Its you who got confused. Zontixs signature mechanics is using a1s, aiming to the legs and shooting while running. Thorin is clueless because he is not paying enough attention to the scene, you need to watch vlogs and listen to the players especially in the new game

@mariushager9983 Ай бұрын

If he had the mechanical ability to shoot people in the head he would do so@@vedser

@ner0th938 Ай бұрын

Electronic IGL, jame bench, bring Monesy, win everything?

@tokern93 Ай бұрын

I don't understand how there are so few premier maps in this game (as well as GO). There's so much potential for interesting strategy with new maps but Valve almost never creates any new ones. Ofc making the game stable rn is prio 1 but there's no excuse for the map scarcity in CS GO

@vedser Ай бұрын

Because Players dont like new maps. And its actually pretty hard to create a good map

@IUHOI Ай бұрын

maui comparing Dota to CS when they talk about quality of polish, it's crazy. This game has so many bugs, there's a website dedicated to them from Valve. Some can win you games. I remember we had threads "everything wrong with a hero" with 5-6 pages. I almost fell asleep reading about Brewmaster. Of course maui is speaking about content, but brings it up during discussion about quality.

@trouble3172 Ай бұрын

Ya know what I want to see with liquid? Steel

@toxichazmat5785 Ай бұрын

5 figures for ELIGE?? wtf Some major deals on the market if you let contracts run out/get close to running out.

@xae7854 Ай бұрын

Mantuu is so right about this with w0nderful. Na’Vi should actually work around him.

@swag_cs2 Ай бұрын

thorin and maui bought a sweatshop

@stayhome4626 Ай бұрын

What's the fuss around Cadian ? I don't get it . His system worked only with Heroic , although they played coherent CS their success was mild since they only won a couple of blasts and some online tournaments , he was nothing before that and he showed he is nothing after that , same things goes for Snappi.

@josh.c36 Ай бұрын

mantuu goat

@youcantrustmem8 Ай бұрын

1:20:10 and then there's Team Fortress 2 just wanting a field not infested with locusts

@scouthatesrainbows Ай бұрын

If cs2 is getting scraps for dinner tf2 is the child locked in the basement eating rats to survive

@vokuhila6913 Ай бұрын

niko definitely got hard nerfed from csgo to cs2, rifling just doesnt feel as clean as csgo at all

@packyak5060 Ай бұрын

chet to liquid or nrg would be lit

@Tophe Ай бұрын

Wag1 geezas London massiv stannup

@marrchy2682 Ай бұрын

Jame is pretty selfless, he thinks long term. In his mind he will coach with a monesy awper in a year or two. And VP is willing to spent money.

@singular9 Ай бұрын

Agree with mantuu, the game is unplayable. Rubberbanding, stutters. Molotovs dropping fps by 90%. Bullets going nowhere. Run and gun. Bullet magnetism is now a thing. Desync. Garbage death match servers. Clipping. Boosting. Random release of nades. hit boxes. Michael jackson back. This is just a few things I see DAILY. EVERY SINGLE DAY. IN FACE IT.

@smathgt8538 Ай бұрын

T2 cs is good now is the funniest joke i have ever heard.

@lucsalander Ай бұрын

how did mantuu fix his wrist issues? he didn't say it!

@thenightmancometh93 Ай бұрын

Probably surgery?

@BZ2308 Ай бұрын

There is an interview with Thorin on KZfaq, which dives deeper into the issue

@mayday8413 Ай бұрын

I feel like they really want to turn b1t into a legacy player, if he can get past this 2 year running sophomore slump he could stay in the team for a long time

@everything-has-a-handle-now Ай бұрын

I think people forget Valve has like 400 employees that intentionally is kept small. It's like getting 1 guy over (that's intentionally a 1 man business) to paint your house and then you start throwing money at them and complaining why it's not done faster.

@vedser Ай бұрын

We dont forget and this is the exact problem with valve

@SCORPAIN88isme Ай бұрын

All of the NA money is in Valorant :/

@falc0n717 Ай бұрын

Nerf. Moving accuracy. Please.

@stayhome4626 Ай бұрын

59:50 He deliberately aims from the neck down (unlike what Thorin thinks "a mor0n" who mistakenly believes their crosshair is at head level and then adjusts it before shooting). His crosshair placement is intentionally lower than most riflers. Over time, he has gradually changed his gameplay and weapon of choice. He has become more passive, aims lower, and prefers the M4 silencer. This is reflected in his stats. This stupid point could've easily been avoided if he just looked up few demos and looked at the stats. Also the Astralis Kreig/Aug meta body shooting is different since with a scope from range body shooting with a weapon that has a faster fire rate is faster than actually missing a couple of bullets then hitting the headshot .

@TDansVids Ай бұрын

Just going to say that the into the AM T shirts are so damn soft... would recommend

@lulkaku Ай бұрын

I welcome Chet to Liquid;. Save this shitshow Mr Chet

@emanueljohansson4895 Ай бұрын

Get Re-z on this shit

@dofstudio9978 Ай бұрын

Wtf fans come up with, aiming for the head is almost better u could dink+spray or with u got a ak kill1+spray

@SandwichManStudios Ай бұрын

@calebbeard6130 Ай бұрын

12-15K a month... nothing crazy.... god what am i doing with my life lmao

@daytona-x7b Ай бұрын

13:50 yep shouldnt care about any moral implications when you're benefitting :)

@noxzy69 Ай бұрын

Austincs is the biggest noob in the scene.

@a1exj699 Ай бұрын

Cant say valve don’t care

@SlopsMcChops Ай бұрын

Maui once again glazing the broken mechanics of cs2 (back strafing - or as this dummy calls it “donk sliding”)

@kutagen Ай бұрын

You do realise this has been in CSGO since the beginning, right? This is how i was taught by my friends, that if i must crouch spray, then at least strafe to make myself harder to hit.

@SlopsMcChops Ай бұрын

@@kutagen 1 it wasn’t a “good” movement tech in GO and 2 my point exactly of why calling it the “donk slide” is fucking retarded. And additionally what maui continues to not understand is the crouch part is unnecessary. It’s the actually BACKSTRAFE itself that is broken in cs2, because hit reg is so dogshit even on LAN

@peepopoo4387 Ай бұрын

@@kutagen CSGO was actually a coherent, tactical shooter. You would just get banged out by a good pre-aim crouch peeking like that which Jame explains in his video he made months ago on this and Donk's game. Anyone else find it weird that Maui is bringing this up like he's the one who found it out?

@kutagen Ай бұрын

@@peepopoo4387 i mean yeah obviously it worked different in CSGO but the mechanic in it's nature was the same, you crouch, strafe and spray, nothing changed on that front- what happens during and after is what has changed. Since the models are more wonky with the addition of subtick, this became much more powerful and i even remember being called shit by my friend who at the time was like 3.3k elo when i did that because he simply 1 tapped my crouched ass.

@cz_czan Ай бұрын

7:30 kek of my day, i swear it can't be real, but the Thorin impression is just gold, I couldn't not laugh

@Pallid85 Ай бұрын

Have you seen Thorin's instructions (how to eat with knife and fork) to Smooya? Can't remember was it at BTN, or in some other video..

@cz_czan Ай бұрын

@@Pallid85 I wish I have

@Hornnnnnn Ай бұрын

@mauisnake csgo was prolific for me flicking to 2nd monitor, never happens on cs2

@cz_czan Ай бұрын

Respect for valde gained

@Txk56 Ай бұрын

where did this rumor start about wonderful copying simple's sensitivity? i first heard it from bubzski and now maui. pro settings and his twitch say he has sens of 2 also glad to see the smooth talker get called out. Rod Ferguson, lead of Diablo4, is another one of those types. don't know much about zews but i got the same vibe from him during the twistzz zews hltv confirmed segment

@fiend3768 Ай бұрын

w0nderful used to rock 3.09 same as s1mple(according to prosettings at that time at least). Maybe he changed it just now.