What an amazing comment… nothing to say but that I’m sooo glad because everyone who reads this will find so much value here 😊 Thanks so much also for the encouragement and for being in touch!!!

So well put, Nina!! Thanks for watching ❤️

This is such an accurate comment thank you Nina! (as I lie awake 😂)

It's a very very good comment❤

Correct it's like the whole gun analogy, how guns are really not dangerous it's the people behind them, but definitely never turn it on yourself! That was just figuratively speaking but it means don't tear yourself apart you know

So so glad for hear things are changing after many years 😊 and thanks Andrea for the support, it means is much 🙏!

So glad you found this Dave. And do check out Beth and her work. She has especially nice content on instagram. www.bethkendall.com/ Hope the book will help and be in touch 🙂

I’m so glad you found your way and that our teachings have been so helpful. And you know, this is such a common place to be, having the rational understanding but not seeing how to translate this to practical change. But do check Insomnia insight 459, its exactly on this topic.

Hi @soblessedchelsea59, I've heard similar sentiments from many people!. A couple of reflections come to mind: 1. The transition from intellectual understanding to a deep internalized knowing takes time. The knowledge you currently hold will naturally influence how you relate to sleep over time. 2. It's perfectly okay to find it challenging to let it go. In fact, it makes perfect sense! Your brain is signaling danger, so initially, it will feel counterintuitive to let it go. As you hear these concepts repeatedly, you'll more easily recognize the source of fear, and the significance and emotions associated with it will gradually fade and get less 😊

😊!

Aww, Lynetta, you are welcome, and thank you so much for your kind words and support. I'm so glad those words still bring you peace at night! 💕

Hi Beth. I was wondering after hearing your insomnia story and recovery, did you implement any type of sleep restriction for your recovery?. Its been 3years since my insomnia started. I know that recovery takes time, I’m a paraplegic so that makes things that much more difficult unfortunately. But Yh I fall asleep fairly easily i spend about 6.5 hours in bed but keep waking up after about4 hours and struggle to sleep again. I’m guessing befriending wakefulness would be the best approach I think?. I’m armed with plenty of useful knowledge but implementation can be a struggle. I listens to most of Daniels playlist and stories but not seeing much progression Iv been using cbti techniques for about 11weeks now. If anyone has some useful tips let me know either coach Daniel or Beth. Thanks 🙏

Hi@@jazk3409, thanks for your question! I did do sleep restriction twice during my insomnia years. What I see with sleep restriction is that it seems to go one of two ways: people really resonate with it because it provides some clear guidance and structure, which allows people to just let go of some of the worry of figuring out what they should be doing. Or, it creates even more pressure and struggle around sleep because of the shortened window and strict rules. I've seen it work and not work. I was in the latter group. Sleep restriction pretty much made my brain flip out from pressure. It caused way more harm than good because the psychiatrists that I was working with didn't understand the nervous system at all in my opinion, and just told me I wasn't committed to my recovery. When in actuality, I was TOO committed to my recovery, which was just perpetuating insomnia. To be fair, this was 20+ years ago. Addressing sleep behaviors can be really helpful I think, but they can only take you so far. At some point, you must also deal with the underlying fear of not sleeping or what that means in your life, or you will always be hinging your sleep on something outside yourself when a speed bump comes along. More and more I realize how little insomnia has to do with sleep. You are exactly right about befriending wakefulness, that is the way through insomnia. When we can befriend that which we fear, it lessens the fear and the brain comes out of hyperarousal. I also understand how much easier this is to know than to implement. This channel talks a lot about the things you can do at night when unable to sleep. Having a plan and learning how to authentically be okay with that time with no underlying agenda for sleep. It is a surrender for sure and that can take some time to reconcile. Waking up 4 hours after going asleep has likely become a conditioned response. We wake up and the brain goes: "I really should not be awake right now, nor do I want to be, and this is not good." Which cues the hyperarousal and problem-solving. When we truly become okay with that awakening, and can even embrace it, the brain sees that it's not a threat, and over time, let's go of the fear creating hyperarousal. Does that make sense? If you are using CBTI and having good success, I think that is awesome. Combining it with your knowledge about what insomnia really is and why it happens will be a wonderful way to recover.

Beth Kendall thank you for the reply. I was thinking something similar to what you just said would probably be the best approach. Thank you for making it clearer for me with your reply, I must say your reply is awesome so well written and explained it has really given me a injection of confidence to get through this. This really has plagued me for 3 years. Thank you Beth appreciate you 🙏

@@jazk3409, so glad to hear, thank you for your support and making my day 😊

My pleasure, thanks for being a part of the community 😊

We love that you are part of this community!!

So glad you found this 🙂 We had a guest named Emily, Talking insomnia #127, you may like that episode as well, she talked about how faith was helpful on her journey.

Anytime, and so glad you found Beth’s story 🙂

Thanks for your support 😊

Your words mean a lot to me, thank you!! 😊 ❤️

@amjskatesh can you add on here Coach Beth’s website. Thank you!

www.bethkendall.com/ Here it is! I think because I’m admin I can do this

Karen! I'll never forget our swap together - gratitude for life, my friend ❤

@@theholisticsleepcoach

Stephen! So glad to see your name pop up 😊 When you're in the thick of it, it's hard NOT to wonder about a potential trifecta! I had those loops running for years, so I understand. The brain is just doing its thing, trying to keep you out of the weeds in the best way it knows how. It won't forget how to sleep ❤️

@@theholisticsleepcoach Thanks for the reminder and for reaching out. If your friend is available for claps, please let me know. I could use one of those!

I love your term ‘trifecta’…! I’ve been calling these events ‘triple hitters’😂, but hooray for all humor! 👏

Oh and I had a nap haha which I know is not ideal ! But I just drifted off the other day don’t know how which when my sleep anxiety was so high it would have never happened! The whole idea of a nap would give me a knot in my stomach and was wired. I am not a person who has naps regardless but when they happened they happened . For me this just means my defences are down !

@@carlamaldonado6169, super happy to hear all these great insights, and that you are feeling 100% like you again! 😊

Super glad to hear that you feel like yourself again 😊!! You know to me this is thanks to understanding that there never was anything wrong with you, the lightness that comes from insight and from self kindness, no longer blaming oneself for things that are just a normal part of having been scared. Well done being willing to learn and finding that courage within! And you know, napping - yes this is a sign of fading hyperarousal + it’s no problem!! It’s only when we think it is that it can create some struggle. Thanks so much for sharing and be in touch!!

as a teenager i started to have issues with sleep at night. but: after school i was still able to fall asleep. then i was told not to nap, cause it would destroy my sleep at night. nowadays: i have even lost my ability to make a nap during day time.and it is terrific for me to hear, that you even managed to nap with the help of the education of these coaches!! i would be so HAPPY, if i just could one day to nap again like in former days, cause it would be for me a huge sign that "my defense is finally down" (i liked how you have written it 👍).

One day, thanks to support like yours Marco, we will see change happen, I truly believe it 🙏☺️

I tend to agree, Marco, that it's hard to find people that truly understand insomnia. Wish they could all go through Daniel's course!!

@@theholisticsleepcoach no one understand it and it seems there is no way out. I fall asleep most of the times but i can't stay asleep and i average 6-7-8 of sleep a week and it is completely ruining my existence, i have tried everything!

@@MarcoDiversi, I had many of the feelings that you describe; insomnia was definitely the filter that I had to put almost every decision through because I could never count on if I'd sleep or not. It's such an uncertain and exhausting way to live. And you're right, most people can never understand. You know what tho? The one thing I had never tried was NOT trying. As you noticed from my video, I recovered before I found the Sleep Coach School, but really, a lot of what led up to that clap falls into what Daniel teaches here. What I can offer you is a reminder of your body's innate ability to sleep. Because you see, I completely lost faith in that. I no longer trusted my body. And what we believe about our sleep often shows itself as a mirror with our sleep. When people ask me what I do now when I have a speed bump or sleep disruption, I think the way I know that I will never fall into the pit of insomnia (or illness, for that matter) is I have a knowingness that my body does know how to sleep and is always striving for balance and homeostasis. Almost everything out there takes us away from that message. Our sleep system doesn't change, it's our beliefs and responses to it that do. It can take time to build this trust after going through insomnia because insomnia can be traumatic sometimes. But really, if I can get better after all those decades, anyone can. You can, too. So keep learning and understanding, Marco 🧡

@@MarcoDiversiYour comment reassures me that your few hours of perceived sleep per week is within the “normal” range of what others experience. Thank you, Marco!

Hi MI, Thanks so so much for the encouragement, and this is so tricky. We need to learn, but even education can become a source of pressure. I think Riley said it so well, his interview could help. Hang in there!!

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thanks for replying coach! It seems to be such a tall order .. to achieve some kind of zen state where distress is no longer distressing . I am a scared woman and I’m not sure I have the strength to achieve this kind of enlightened state of non-attachment.

@@MI-wj4on How is your sleep now? I’m in a very similar boat

Hi Dominic, thanks for being in touch even though there’s still struggle. But you know, I’m glad you saw similarities and, insomnia to me really always is the same. The fear of being awake, it’s always the root I think. And Beth has soo much insight! Here, you can find more here: www.bethkendall.com

Hi Dominic, I’m glad to hear that you’ve found a flexible job, it can be tricky when we have no obligations because sometimes the quest to problem solve sleep can take up so much of our lives.. but you know, I think often looking for something that successfully makes us sleep IS what keeps us struggling…for anyone really… and in abandoning the quest to find something that will make us sleep.. we can find peaceful sleep and peace of mind happening

What you describe here is a pretty common trigger, Sumant Singh. Sometimes we create these acceptability thresholds in our mind about "how much" or, "what time" we need to sleep for it to feel acceptable and okay. But then if we exceed these thresholds, our mind perceives it as a problem, (which leads to hyper-arousal and insomnia). So a threshold example might look like: "If I go to bed by 11p, I'll be okay, but it if it's after that, I won't be able to sleep." One of my big ones was, "I can make it two nights without sleep, but not three." Thresholds are just a way that we try to control sleep. We unconsciously do this in other areas of life, too, but because sleep is such a passive process that happens in the absence of effort, thresholds create more anxiety and monitoring around sleep. It's okay to implement the timeless window again. Glad to hear you are getting some good insights and support from this channel and Martin Reed!! 😊

Hey Beth what happens if you went three nights without sleep would you spiral out of control with thoughts or how were you able to bring yourself centerer again

So glad you found us and Martin as well 😊! You’ll get where you want to be thanks to learning 👍

@@theholisticsleepcoach yeah that was may be the main trigger for me being setting up such threshold for the sleep , i am now trying let go all the efforts for sleep and beliefs regarding thresholds , but its actually tough to let go these thoughts but i am trying my best and i hope one day i'll be doing great . Thanks a lot ma'am for addressing me and your journey to overcome insomnia has given me immense happiness and hope .

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 i am very glad that i found you because there are enough content out on the internet that just leads to more and more sleep anxiety and results in insomnia . You are a life saving person .

Yes, I got off all meds after about a year! I used them on an as-needed basis during my recovery process until eventually they just weren't needed anymore. I had enough faith and evidence in my own ability to sleep.

Agreed, Coach Beth looks great! One takeaway from this interview is that insomnia in itself clearly doesn’t ruin your looks…!

ALSO YOUR BOOK IS AWESOME

Hi there and thanks!! So so glad you liked it 😊 You know this is not uncommon and I think it makes sense to just try to stay up until a bit later. Sometimes setting alarms or getting a friend to keep you up is all you need. Snacking, a shower, things like this can help too. But also - it always helps to not push oneself too much. Maybe do it gradually and gently..

Hi again, You know, I think this awareness, seeing that we are looking for, searching for something that will make us feel reassured, when we see that we spend a lot of time trying to change how we feel… this is so so helpful. Because then we aren’t automatically just searching, we are aware of the searching and where it can lead. For example, it can feel great knowing that a normal CT scan means no damage to the Thalamus! But often just a minute later… another worry pops up that we now feel we have to reassure. Looking for reassurance often becomes an ongoing stressful search…even when we find something that for a minute reassures us. Now with this said, I don’t know the answer to the question! And I’m not sure it’s actually that important to know… but of course that’s something you know more about!!

Hi Daniel, Thanks much for being here and sharing and I read sooo much insight here. You know, I think listening to Andreas in Talking insomnia 66 & 67 can really help. He shares how what we teach here helped when it came to panic attacks and ptsd and ocd as well. You know I think really all our suffering comes from that same place of trying to make it for away… and when we see this, and when resistance to suffering fades, then things get so much easier… Now this is such an important question about unrefreshing sleep: let’s review in detail and talk some more about ocd as well. - When you sleep ok, there’s no obvious problem when it comes to your sleep but you just never feel refreshed, it can often help to simply see that often how we feel during the day isn’t depending on how we sleep. This can sound disappointing because naturally you want to find something to improve so that you feel refreshed, and sleep seems like a logical place to start. But often trying to control sleep quality, which we have no control over, just leads to frustration and trouble sleeping and feeling no more refreshed. But what really can help is to look at two different types of fatigue, two different kinds of unrefreshed if you will: There are in principle two forms of fatigue. One is the straightforward feeling of fatigue that you have when you have run a half marathon. It behaves in a very predictable way. You rest, you sit down, you don’t do much, and you feel rested! Then we have the type of fatigue that behaves more like an emotion. You can think of it as emotional fatigue. It is a heavier feeling from within. This is feeling drained and exhausted as if you have no energy no matter what you do or how much you sleep. This feeling comes from the same place insomnia comes from, wanting to get away from discomfort. With insomnia, the more we try to escape the fear of a perceived threat, the more fear we have. And emotional fatigue acts like this as well. The more you try to figure out why you are so tired, the more you think you are disproportionately tired or “too” tired and that something is wrong with you, the more you want it to go away the more sticky it becomes! On the other hand, when you recognize that you are tired but you don’t think that you shouldn’t be, because you know where the fatigue comes from, and you also allow yourself to be tired then things will change. It’s in a way a form of self-compassion to not criticize oneself for feeling tired. And just like when you are no longer trying to make yourself calm this leads to peace of mind, when you’re no longer pushing yourself or doing things to be less tired, when you sit with it without judgement, you experience that emotional fatigue much less. OCD I often get questions about whether OCD is something that will make it more difficult to sleep well. Or vice versa is insomnia impacts OCD. There are often very similar questions when it comes to depression and anxiety and sleep. Can I sleep well even if I have anxiety? Does insomnia cause depression? I think of it in a very different way than cause and effect. I think that OCD or depression or anxiety or chronic fatigue or insomnia all come from the same place - a place of avoidance. The human experience is full of discomfort. And a lot of that is emotional discomfort. Sadness for example has a practical purpose, it is there so we play dead when we face overwhelming odds. Anxiety is there for safety when we are facing and I’m certain threats. Our tendency to pay attention to detail and want things in a certain way is also practical, it’s a way to be prepared for potential threats or opportunities. Now our human brains are survival machines and they are always there to keep us safe. But nowadays, when there is less physical traits around us, the brain can easily get confused. When the brain starts looking at sadness as a threat, a problem, something that we have too much of, something that we need to get away from, that’s when the sadness gets really sticky. Just like the more we try to escape from wakefulness the more insomnia we have, the more we try to escape sadness the more depressed we become. And when we try to escape the emotion of anxiety, we become more and more anxious. It is very similar to how when we try to escape thoughts that are unpleasant, when we try to shut off the brain, we get racing thoughts. And I think the same applies to OCD. When we think we shouldn’t have this behavior, it’s wrong, we have to stop it, then it becomes something that bothers us. When we understand that every impulse we have comes from a brain wanting us to be safe, and it’s our attempt to control impulses and judge ourselves for not “being able to” control them, that’s when we have some struggle. So I think it is very helpful to apply everything you learn about insomnia to OCD or depression or anxiety and you’ll find it really helpful!

Hi Daniel. Coach Daniel gave such a thorough response, but I thought I'd add a few thoughts. I had a bunch of diagnoses applied to me during my insomnia years. And I think they can have some value sometimes because they can provide some validation and a starting point on what to work on. But I also think that they all come from the same place, which is the brain's desire to protect you in the best way it knows how. I hesitate to even say the word "problem" anymore because I think usually we are just successfully creating an undesired outcome based on the information we are holding. The brain is changeable and I think the most important thing is to have a lot of kindness for yourself and your amazing brain!

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thankyou so much for getting back to me Daniel i've leaned alot here and from Beth's comment. I'm finding out that anxiety is all down to avoidance essentially, true acceptance is harder than it sounds to manifest. Can i just ask another question - I have seen your comments on another channel about sleep monitoring and find them helpful, I find that the reverse psychology of sleeping so interesting. I am told not to nap at all and all of a sudden by body is crying out for a nap and i can nap like a baby, however if i turn the tables and 'try' to nap, or if i know i have a big event ahead of the day which i need the nap for as my sleep is very poor at the moment i feel this sort of pressure to sleep and that alone is enough to stop me from getting a more restful power nap. In otherwords, when i try to sleep i can't, when i don't try and resist it, it comes along with ease?! Have you got any advice for having a more restful nap when my sleep is really poor and i might have a big event ahead later on in the day to try to take the pressure off so i can have a refreshing nap

I should add that the pressure, is a monitoring that seems to happen where I monitor whether i will sleep or not, and allowing it to happen is effective but often i know that i 'NEED' to have a restful nap to feel good enough to carry out that event later and it adds a pressure

Hi Daniel, So glad it made sense and this is a very natural question. You see sooo clearly how when we want to sleep the desire keeps us from sleeping, but when we want to not sleep, sleep happens easily. This is fundamental. It shows how the more we desire sleep the choppier sleep becomes. So the answer becomes one of being more ok with not sleeping when we have an event or for another reason need sleep. The more we go towards “it would be so nice to take a nap, but if it doesn’t happen that’s ok” the easier things become. When we look at things as taking some rest, and perhaps we will sleep too rather than trying to nap.. something like this, the gentle way without pressure!

Hi Abishek, It’s always the same answer: letting go of trying to have control of sleep. But to summarize how to arrive where this happens: No this isn’t possible.. in fact it’s the opposite, this 45 min conversation is four decades of thoughts and feelings compressed into less than one hour… And you know, the way I see it there isn’t a cure because there isn’t a disease, it’s a confusion in the brain… and education really helps!

@@johnmonk3381 Hi John, cheers for that reply. Yes like i think im close to being fully recovered because today now i dwelled on the bad night a little bit this morning but then im going about my day as usual so just ploughing through this rough patch now really.

@@johnmonk3381 👍

Hi Derek, Firstly, it’s so natural of course that you’d have some trouble sleeping as it all started when your dad passed away, and anything that normalizes our experiences really can help.. Now in addition to what John said, I just want to add some thoughts on why we often find the brain going “this is new”. Let’s take a look. The human brain is a survival machine, it always wants to keep you safe. And it is very very cautious not to commit what’s called a type two error. You know the story of the boy who cried Wolf. Well the third time he cries wolf, the villagers don’t believe him! They failed to see that there was actually a real problem! The brain doesn’t want to commit this error. It thinks that if you think that this is simply anxiety, or this is just the same type of insomnia I had before or things like that, it will miss out on something that can really harm you. So in order to keep you safe, it always tells you to look for new things. It tells you that “it’s different this time”. It tells you “you’ve never had this before”, or “it was never this bad”. Those thoughts come from a good place. They come from a place where the brain is trying to keep you safe. But reality is, there actually is no Wolf in the sleep world! There is no real threat, there’s only a perceived threat. So if you were just aware of where these thoughts come from, it becomes much easier not to buy into them! You can just be kind to the brain, tell it that you understand that it is trying to keep you safe, but you don’t need to pay too much attention to what it is saying when it’s saying things like the above. This way you will teach it that there’s no threat and sleep will happen much easier. Did this make sense Derek? And thanks for being a guest, it was so helpful and nice 😊

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thanks for that Daniel 👍

Anytime, be well and let us know how things go Derek

Hi Maggy, you know, when I hear the “tells” I’m thinking maybe it’s that inner voice we all have. We hear thoughts like “don’t eat that” and it can seem like something inside us is talking to us, but in reality it’s the common human experience of noticing our thoughts. Now, one thing that’s very clear to me is that when we attempt to argue with or stop our thoughts, they just amplify like when we try to stop someone who has what they feel is an important message to us from speaking. If the goal becomes to stop the OCD from “telling” then I can see this becoming an inner struggle of its own. On the other hand when we go “our brain is a survival machine, it often warns is about things, like going to sleep, even though it’s perfectly safe… and that’s okay, it’s just doing it’s job” - then there’s no struggle.

Thank you for this question, M. B. I’m sure Daniel will respond later, but I just wanted to add a few things as well. Insomnia can definitely be a traumatic experience for some people. “The Big One” and everything you went through with that likely registered as something dangerous in your brain, so not surprisingly, even though you are sleeping better now, there is still some residual fear running in the background around not sleeping and reverting back to the initial event. That is completely understandable. Over time, as you continue to unlearn the fear through knowledge, self-kindness, and befriending wakefulness, the fear will lesson. When there is less fear, we don’t go into the same states of hyper-arousal that cause long stretches of insomnia. I consider myself immune to insomnia now, but not necessarily immune from the occasional sleepless night, which everyone will experience that from time to time. When you no longer fear it though, you become less responsive to it. Like any other trauma, it can take some time to heal. Give yourself lots of grace so you don’t feel pressure to heal in a certain way or on a certain timeline, because that will look different for everyone. The less we try to control the path, the more it will show us the way 😊

Hi MB, You know I think it’s because it has happened already. If we experience something that is really really scary, but we saw that it did end and we are safe, then I think the fear can still be there, but it will not be as intense as it was that first time.

@theholisticsleepcoach Beth,I am so grateful for your kind and generous insight,thankyou 🥰

Hi RS, You know I think most people who sleep well have no idea of how long they sleep. So I think whenever we don’t look at numbers but rather the opposite, when we don’t monitor sleep, then things happen all by themselves.

@thesleepcoachschool8192 hello beth,is it OK to read in bed if im unable to sleep ?